VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

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chetak
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby chetak » 09 Feb 2019 15:39

rgosain wrote:
chetak wrote:
we can afford 148.

BUT MODI FIRST NEEDS TO GET BACK IN THE SADDLE.

If not Modi, any other will kill the rafale deal and get in another country, and many countries are pushing the congis to do just that, a la the artillery guns for the IA were sabotaged for decades because the greedy govt of the day just couldn't make out where it stood to pocket the most moolah

The real scandal is that there was a clear objective to degrade the combat effectiveness of the IAF by the upa and their supporters after Kargil where the IAF modified the M2000 and demonstrated their operational readiness and capability , hence the lack of progress on the lca and the non-deployment of the Rafale during the decade of upa rule. This became apparent after Mumbai Nov 2008, where there was a clear requirement for new capability but none was forthcoming
That N.Ram, who is a known propagandist for the PRC has taken to the air on this together with RG shows that after Doklan the PRC are using these two to cancel the Rafale and any potential strategic partnership with France. MP's revelation that the total build will be for 148 has to be seen in this light.


I agree entirely.

Just need to recall how the bofors replacement was maliciously, duplicitously and deliberately stalled and delayed for the better part of some decades leaving the IA seriously handicapped.

we were indeed very lucky that the bofors sailed through during kargil.

that someone, the head of a political party, no less, would slyly meet with the hans, behind the back of the GoI, not once but twice, jeopardizing national interests is treasonous.

the rafale is not exactly in the same boat but there are competing interests and dark BIF that are pushing to unseat the rafale and push through their preferred aircraft and weapon systems.

nrams cheeni proclivities are only too well known

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby ashthor » 09 Feb 2019 15:44

Rather than another 110 Rafales....buy another 36 and put the money on LCA mk2 and AMCA.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 10 Feb 2019 01:28

arshyam wrote:148 aircraft = 8 squadrons of 18 fighters + 4 reserves. Wow.

ATTN Rakesh saar. I am sure you'll be happy with this :)

As happy as I am :), they will have to scrap MMRCA 3.0 first. Still in RFI stage. Time is there to cancel.

And that can only happen if the Modi Govt wins in 2019 and the CAG gives the clean chit on the first Rafale deal.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 10 Feb 2019 01:30

Was the then Defence Minister Parrikar against Rafale Deal?
Air Marshal Sinha has some inside story that will put an end to Rafale controversy

https://postcard.news/was-the-then-defe ... ntroversy/

Rahul Gandhi’s fake theories on Rafale deal are getting hammered, time and again. On 8th February, Congress chief Rahul Gandhi blabbered that, “It is absolutely clear that that the Prime Minister has stolen Rs 30,000 crore of your money, bypassed a process and given it to his friend Anil Ambani.” He made this statement after relying on a distorted letter and a fake story published by the left-leaning The Hindu newspaper. Rahul Gandhi and The Hindu claimed that the then Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar was against the Rafale deal but within minutes after this lie was busted when the complete document that had Mr Parrikar’s note on it was published. Shockingly, not just Rahul Gandhi, but even The Hindu refused to apologize. The Hindu’s N Ram went on to attack the ailing Parrikar just to cover-up his fake story.

Now the Air Marshal SBP Sinha, who was the chairman of Rafale negotiation committee, slammed the fake theories suggesting MoD was against Rafale deal. Giving an insider story, he said, “It is necessary to understand how Rafale negotiation took place. We were a team of 7. There were two air force officers and five joint secretary officers from ministry. Whatever we did, it was done with consensus. The procurement process began after the approval by Defence acquisition council, whose chairman is Defence Minister. Then how can the Defence Minister be against it?” With this statement, Air Marshal SBP Sinha made it clear that the Ministry of Defence was very much behind the deal and had zero doubts about it. Mr Sinha added, “The pressure was not being put, and the biggest example of this is the fact that such a big matter came up in this note, but the MoD neither asked me about it, nor they forwarded me the letter.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby chetak » 10 Feb 2019 21:27

Representative picture of the aircraft that pappu would have got for the price he says his party negotiated with rafale.

Image

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby chetak » 10 Feb 2019 22:41

Sorry, couldn't resist.

twitter

French Rafale


Image

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 10 Feb 2019 23:08

I do not want to jump the gun, but it appears the CAG report might be giving a clean chit to the Modi Govt. Congress is all hot and bothered and is blaming CAG of having a conflict of interest.

Anticipating CAG clean chit to govt on Rafale deal, Congress party now points it gun at the CAG
https://www.opindia.com/2019/02/anticip ... t-the-cag/

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 10 Feb 2019 23:15

In light of the above, this tweet is apt...

https://twitter.com/neelghosh75/status/ ... 55618?s=21 —>
Govt of India is lying
Dassault is lying
Ambani is lying
French Govt is lying
Supreme Court is lying

Only Rahul 'Harishchandra' Gandhi is telling the TRUTH.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby JayS » 11 Feb 2019 01:31

chetak wrote:Sorry, couldn't resist.

twitter

French Rafale


Image

Aint it a beauty..?

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Sumeet » 11 Feb 2019 02:52

Just wish there was a way to retract that IFR probe. It is damn beautiful aircraft.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby chetak » 11 Feb 2019 16:20

The Indian govt directly pays into a specially set up french govt account and there is nil direct financial contact between the GoI and the french vendors.

Payment is disbursed by the french govt to the vendors on a stage by stage basis only when both parties (India and France) review the progress in detail along with the vendors and agree that project goals have been mutually satisfied

The strong smell of burning hair ( I blush to say from which part of the anatomy ) is the indication that middlemen have no role this time.

The baboo(n)s are rightly incensed, along with many other usual middlemen suspects.





twitter

Image


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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby chetak » 11 Feb 2019 17:04

It looks like maybe the major part of the rafale's IAF specific configuration that is being delivered by the french may be similar, if not the same, as negotiated by the MMS govt, but never followed through to conclude the sale.

Instead, negotiations were also started with eurofighter for very obvious reasons, with notorious middlemen eagerly sniffing blood in the water.

I have quoted only the relevant paragraphs from the joint statement.

Follow the link for the joint statement itself.



India-France Joint Statement during the visit of Prime Minister to France (April 9-11, 2015)


Defence

13. The leaders stressed the importance of joint military exercises between their Armies (Shakti), Navies (Varuna), and Air Forces (Garuda) and welcomed the participation of the French Carrier Battle Group in the Varuna exercise in the Indian Ocean in the coming weeks. The two leaders underlined the long history of cooperation between France and India in the defense sector and acknowledged the strong commitment of French companies to manufacturing in India. The two leaders called for further intensification of cooperation in agreed areas, including collaboration in defence technologies, research and development. In response to new emphasis on defence manufacturing by the Government of India, they encouraged their respective business enterprises to enter into arrangements for co-development and co-production of defence equipment in India, including transfer of know-how and technologies. They welcomed the announcements made by French Defence enterprises to set up technological and industrial projects in India following the meeting of French Defence Industry leaders with the Prime Minister of India.

14. Government of India conveyed to the Government of France that in view of the critical operational necessity for Multirole Combat Aircraft for Indian Air Force, Government of India would like to acquire [36] Rafale jets in fly-away condition as quickly as possible. The two leaders agreed to conclude an Inter-Governmental Agreement for supply of the aircraft on terms that would be better than conveyed by Dassault Aviation as part of a separate process underway; the delivery would be in time-frame that would be compatible with the operational requirement of IAF; and that the aircraft and associated systems and weapons would be delivered on the same configuration as had been tested and approved by Indian Air Force, and with a longer maintenance responsibility by France.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby chetak » 11 Feb 2019 21:00

twitter

Replying to @nitingokhale
You are being charitable
.
There is a pattern to it
.
Cong used threat of impeachment to try & pressurise then CJI
.
Now 3 episodes to pressure CAG
1. Threat to Govt Officials
2. Create doubts over CAG role being former Def Secy
&
3. Half baked report by @nramind
.
Insidious

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby hemant_sai » 11 Feb 2019 21:49

More than RaGa, I am amazed at BJP leadership. They are not able to stop his outright lies. It appears that for RaGa, there is just no fear for shouting lies and in-fact after recent state-wins, he must be thinking - "Wow !!! It works. It is so easy just repeat-n-repeat". There is no price to pay for lying.
Next thing is Innovative online media. They are following same lines of Raga as if there is no price to pay for lying.
BJP is only relying on its social-media workforce to counter them. What about setting discipline? Does parliament not having enough powers to make its elected members responsible for what they speak in parliament and as official party statements to press? Why print media is not taken to task for publishing outright lies and not even apologizing for it?

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 12 Feb 2019 06:54

hemant_sai wrote:More than RaGa, I am amazed at BJP leadership. They are not able to stop his outright lies. It appears that for RaGa, there is just no fear for shouting lies and in-fact after recent state-wins, he must be thinking - "Wow !!! It works. It is so easy just repeat-n-repeat". There is no price to pay for lying.
Next thing is Innovative online media. They are following same lines of Raga as if there is no price to pay for lying.
BJP is only relying on its social-media workforce to counter them. What about setting discipline? Does parliament not having enough powers to make its elected members responsible for what they speak in parliament and as official party statements to press? Why print media is not taken to task for publishing outright lies and not even apologizing for it?

Hemant, while the Modi Govt could have done more in aggressively tackling this issue...there are sinister forces at work and all are working in tandem to derail the Rafale deal. I will leave it your imagination whose these forces are, but some are foreign.

Since the deal was signed in Sept 2016, the Congress has furiously tried to find some evidence of a scam. The Congress' effort really got underway in November 2017 and since then through various channels (media, interviews, Parliament debate, etc) have kept the drum beating. In Sept 2018, the Congress Party got a big break with former French President Francois Hollande stating that France had no role in choosing the offset partner and they were asked to choose Anil Ambani's company.

Then joyous rapture fell on the Congress Party, again in Sept 2018, when the Supreme Court agreed to hear the petitioners case against the Rafale deal. Two wins in one month were too much for the Congress Party to handle. Some in the Congress may have got hallucinations of finally envisioning themselves in a new Congress led Govt in 2019. I am sure Rahul Gandhi was measuring the drapes in a mock up of the Prime Minister's Office. But the Hollande statement turned out to be false and Hollande himself did a volte-face on his statement. And in December 2018, the second earthquake for the Congress came when the verdict was in the favour of the Govt.

The Supreme Court verdict was too much for the Congress Party to handle. They found it hard to reconcile themselves to the decision and blamed the three Supreme Court judges of being incapable of rendering a verdict in this deal, because they were not competent enough to judge the merits of the deal. They wanted everyone to ignore the fact, that they were the ones who went to the Supreme Court in the first place. Even prior to the Supreme Court verdict coming out, they tried a new strategy called JPC (Joint Parliamentary Committee) probe. But the Modi Govt held firm and waited for the Supreme Court verdict to come out. When that verdict came out in the Govt's favour, the JPC probe went out the window.

Now when the CAG report is being tabled to Parliament, the Congress is now trying a new tactic. They are stating that the CAG report on the Rafale is biased as the head of the CAG was the Finance Secretary in the Modi Govt when the deal was announced between India and France in 2015. When an institution (Supreme Court, Comptroller and Auditor General, Ministry of Defence, Indian Air Force) does not gel with the Congress' allegation, then the institution is biased, lying or just plain dumb. Veerappa Moily even called Air Chief Marshal Birender Singh Dhanoa a liar for agreeing with the Government's position. Amazing logic! When the IAF's senior leadership (ACM Dhanoa, Air Marshal Nambiar, Air Marshal SBP Sinha, etc) are saying that there is no scam, why would anyone believe there is? They have no skin in this game, politically.

To quote a recent tweet ---> Everyone Is Lying. Only Rahul Harishchandra Gandhi is telling the truth!

Now the former editor of The Hindu newspaper has surprisingly got his hands on sensitive documents pertaining to the Rafale deal. Every now and then, he lets out tantalizing (and redacted) tidbits of supposed rancour between the PMO and the MoD. First it was parallel negotiations that the PMO was conducting. When that failed (because the entire document was released), now the new allegation that cropped up in the Hindu editorial is that the PMO waived anti-corruption clauses in the Rafale deal. Congress' friends in the media are continually fanning these fake allegations and written communications between ministries and the PMO are being leaked to the media for political gain. More "fake" skeletons will come out of the closet as India chooses its next government in a few months. The MoD should be seriously looking into how the former editor of The Hindu got his hands on these documents.

Anything to win an election. Anything. This will not end even with the election though. The only way to stop this nonsense to find solid evidence of collusion between the Congress and these sinister forces. That will end this tamasha once in for all.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby souravB » 12 Feb 2019 07:07

There are 2-3 excellent threads by Abhijit Iyer-Mitra in twitter debunking N Ram's claims and reports. He is even suggesting what expose N Ram is going to put up next and why that will be incorrect too.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 12 Feb 2019 07:35

That is good to know Sourav.

Abhijit Iyer-Mitra, Nitin Gokhale and Vishnu Som are conducting a good defence of the Rafale deal on twitter.

Even on this forum, a few (great strategic thinkers) were dead set against the Rafale contract. They wanted the US to win the deal, for either the F-16 and/or the F-18. You should have seen the rona-dhona in threads in April 2011 (when the technical down-select occurred). The arrogance of an American win was so assured, that there was shock & awe when Rafale and Eurofighter were chosen in the technical down select. There was glee among these few when the Rafale negotiations were in a death spiral from Jan 2012 till April 2015. And then derision followed for getting only 36, instead of 126.

When the Single Engine Fighter contest was commenced, these few were back in the saddle (on BRF) again providing the merits of an American aircraft. Jobs, Parts, Make in India, etc, etc, etc. Then came the doomsday scenarios of not selecting the F-16 Block 70/72;

1) India will be on her against the Chinese
2) All joint working groups between India and US will be cancelled
3) Indo-US strategic relations will be set back for decades
4) Not selecting the F-16 would be unfortunate for India
5) Tejas was a good effort, but AMCA is the real deal
6) Tejas Mk2 will never be a reality, so buy F-16

Even at the political level, the Congress could do little to change the opinion of the IAF. The technical down select in 2011 shocked many of the policy makers in the UPA Govt. Among US policy makers, there was disbelief as to how the IAF can choose an aircraft and override the strategic relationship between two nations. But asking the IAF to change their mind, would be a violation of MoD policy. So the next best thing for the UPA Govt was to continually delay the deal (which AK Antony did dutifully) by giving one excuse after another. Then the UPA lost the 2014 elections and thus the delay tactic could no longer work. When the Modi Govt finally signed a deal in Sept 2016, the new strategy now is to kill the deal by accusing the Modi Govt of corruption. By killing Rafale, a new Congress Govt could potentially blacklist Dassault from a future competition. By removing Dassault out of the picture, then the IAF will have to choose among the remaining competitors.

The Russian birds do not have a chance in hell of winning this. So who is left? Eurofighter, F-16 and F-18. The Gripen E would be an outlier. She uses an American engine. Good luck with them winning anything without Massa's nod. So let an American bird come in and curtail and scale back the Tejas program. Repeat of Israel's Lavi program onlee. Heck, one US policy influencer even said so as much about the Tejas program which was dutifully regurgitated by the great strategic thinkers on BRF (see points 5 and 6 above). See below...

Troubles, They Come in Battalions: The Manifold Travails of the Indian Air Force
https://carnegieendowment.org/2016/03/2 ... -pub-63123

The IAF should revisit some aspects of its current approach. It should be cautious about expanding the Tejas acquisition beyond six squadrons and consider enlarging the MMRCA component with the cheapest fourth-generation-plus Western fighter available.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 12 Feb 2019 07:40

An excellent piece by Nitin Gokhale....

Congress’ wild allegations on Rafale harming national security
https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/opin ... l-security

PMO can ask for details, seek clarifications, suggest modifications to most matters since it leads the government.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby souravB » 12 Feb 2019 08:03

Rakesh sir, yes I have seen some of the rona dhonas here in BRF too while MMRCA 2 started.
For me personally, Taking internal notes and memos of one person of a department and saying the whole deal went bad is akin to believing Bollywood gossip that is being said on MTv.
As for the deal, CONgress already said they will back out from the deal if came to power.
BJP also needs to come out of the shock of winning, and start to believe that they are there to stay and needn't dole out political favour to save own's hiney during rough times. We also need a proper authoritative and experienced RM for the next term if they come to power, either Suresh Prabhu or Piyush Goyal. Gadkari would be the best choice, but that won't happen I guess.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby chetak » 12 Feb 2019 09:48

naxalram says that Modi has removed the "anti corruption clause" from the rafale deal, thus proving his malafides.

naxalram well knows that this "anti corruption clause" was not present in either of the two previous govt to govt contracts with the russkis and the amerikis.

why is he not talking of the infamous 5 star hotel purchased in dilli by the powers that be after the T-90 deal??

In fact, the IA calls this hotel the T-90 hotel.


ANI Verified account @ANI

Air Marshal SBP Sinha,who headed Rafale negotiations from Indian side,on anti-corruption clause in govt to govt contract:Till now,we had 'govt to govt' contract with America&Russia. It's the 3rd 'govt to govt' contract, which is with France. Such clause isn't there in any of them




twitter

Congress President Rahul Gandhi : Every defence deal has an anti-corruption clause. The Hindu has reported that the PM removed the anti-corruption clause. It is clear that the PM facilitated loot. #Rafale

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby hemant_sai » 12 Feb 2019 11:27

souravB wrote:Rakesh sir, yes I have seen some of the rona dhonas here in BRF too while MMRCA 2 started.
For me personally, Taking internal notes and memos of one person of a department and saying the whole deal went bad is akin to believing Bollywood gossip that is being said on MTv.
As for the deal, CONgress already said they will back out from the deal if came to power.
BJP also needs to come out of the shock of winning, and start to believe that they are there to stay and needn't dole out political favour to save own's hiney during rough times. We also need a proper authoritative and experienced RM for the next term if they come to power, either Suresh Prabhu or Piyush Goyal. Gadkari would be the best choice, but that won't happen I guess.


Mr. Nagpur is best placed as of now. Please don't have very high opinion of him to replace RM. I believe real struggle for PM is to find trustworthy RM, if you notice the appointments you will realize. If you listen to Nagpur's recent interviews, you will be shocked that he attempted to support Mr. KingFisher arguing that we need to be lenient as business can fail. He is neither very open critic on congrezis due to his own ethos of maintaining healthy relations with everyone. And so he makes cryptic comments which are firing back on BJP.
I don't see much issue with current RM except that her anger and anxiety paralyses her ability to answer convincingly. To be honest, if BJP comes back to power, I won't recommend any reshuffle, at least not with RM. I would rather seek Mr. Parrikar's helping hand and free him from CM's responsibility (of course I wish he gets well soon).

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby sahay » 12 Feb 2019 15:02

This weaponisation of dissent notes is going to hurt future acquisitions very badly. Now, all you need to do to scuttle a deal is to leak a disagreement that was put in writing and the opinion of everybody else doesn't even matter. This is going to be the new "anonymous letter".

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby CRamS » 12 Feb 2019 18:38

What Pappu and his slaves and that includes Pappu media like NDTV have done is take all the travails and tribulations of signing such a complex deal keeping national security needs in mind, and spun it as actions done out of malafide intent. I must give it to Cambride Analytica or whoever it is that Pappu & Co hired for this strategy. And I must also credit ModiJi's detractors in the defense ministry and elsewhere for colluding in this shameful enterprise. I don't know about opinion polls, but this relentless nit-picking of every little deliberation that took place, putting it out of context and then alleging corruption through 'chowkidar chor hai' has got to be damaging (never mind that those deliberations actually indicate that ModiJi had a single-minded focus to satisfy the needs to IAF and country, and there is a even a whiff of person gain for him or his family). I mean don't tell me all those useless dim-wits who showed up at Priyanka princess's rally won't be swayed by this charge.

What I find interesting though about Congoon strategy is akin to the classic hen that lays golden egg. Pappu seems to be on overdrive, as offensive as it seems with his charge of 'chowkidar chor hai' is that he seems to be cut the hen way too early. None of his allegations have lived more than 48 hours before dissipating, until he pulls one more out of his rectum that naxal Ram or Ajai Shukla or whih ever slave of the dynasty inserts into him. I cannot imagine what else Pappu's slaves have up their sleeve as elections draw closer, and by going on the attack this early and nothing more, will this backfire?

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby souravB » 12 Feb 2019 19:15

hemant_sai wrote:I don't see much issue with current RM except that her anger and anxiety paralyses her ability to answer convincingly. To be honest, if BJP comes back to power, I won't recommend any reshuffle, at least not with RM. I would rather seek Mr. Parrikar's helping hand and free him from CM's responsibility (of course I wish he gets well soon).

Gadkari for all his faults is a businessman and do know how to effectively infuse money. That is precisely what our defense manufacturing industry needs. Also he is a seasoned enough politician to take any s**t from a babu or any officer.
NS lacks precisely these qualities. She is taking dictation left-right and center from MoD baboos and armed forces officers. Due to her lack of political clout she is finding it hard to say no to one of them. Anger and anxiety comes from helplessness.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby hemant_sai » 12 Feb 2019 19:35

souravB wrote:
hemant_sai wrote:I don't see much issue with current RM except that her anger and anxiety paralyses her ability to answer convincingly. To be honest, if BJP comes back to power, I won't recommend any reshuffle, at least not with RM. I would rather seek Mr. Parrikar's helping hand and free him from CM's responsibility (of course I wish he gets well soon).

Gadkari for all his faults is a businessman and do know how to effectively infuse money. That is precisely what our defense manufacturing industry needs. Also he is a seasoned enough politician to take any s**t from a babu or any officer.
NS lacks precisely these qualities. She is taking dictation left-right and center from MoD baboos and armed forces officers. Due to her lack of political clout she is finding it hard to say no to one of them. Anger and anxiety comes from helplessness.

:) Sir you are little harsh on her. Considering her tenure of 17 months, she has done quite well. We don't have case where she is not able to take decisions or afraid of taking decisions. Before RM post, she was minister for Commerce and Industry and her report card is quite good there too. If we are assuming she is naive and not aware of baboo culture then it will be completely wrong statement. I believe she has the ability and I find her more trustworthy than Gadkari.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 12 Feb 2019 19:40

^^hope you realize that 17 months is more than 20% of the tenure of this govt, out of which many already had passed. I think she has not been the best of RM for 1. she had to fill in shoes of MP 2. She's not been able to thumb any of the parties a. opposition/media: response has not found too many takers, smriti irani beats here in taking cudgels, b. mod: yes she has concluded the deals, but I am wondering if the files are leaking during her stint or some other time. c. forces: she hasnt pushed them back when needed like MP did in case of tejas. The same old chatter of import is back.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby chetak » 12 Feb 2019 19:51

ArjunPandit wrote:^^hope you realize that 17 months is more than 20% of the tenure of this govt, out of which many already had passed. I think she has not been the best of RM for 1. she had to fill in shoes of MP 2. She's not been able to thumb any of the parties a. opposition/media: response has not found too many takers, smriti irani beats here in taking cudgels, b. mod: yes she has concluded the deals, but I am wondering if the files are leaking during her stint or some other time. c. forces: she hasnt pushed them back when needed like MP did in case of tejas. The same old chatter of import is back.




ArjunPandit ji,

Her biggest contribution and asset is that she would not cause any scandal, controversy or scam in the defence ministry.

She is undoubtedly honest, non controversial, erudite, personable, well spoken, educated and cultured.

Also, she is a south Indian with a very good command over hindi, apart from telugu, tamil and a good working knowledge of kannada.

She can handle the press with the best of them and is social media savvy.

She is playing her part well enough, all the major defence deals of this govt are done and the boat requires a steady hand to keep it from rocking.

What other Chamatkar (Hindi: चमत्कार, Translation: Miracle) is anyone looking for or expecting from her, especially during the slog overs??

She has been chosen with a very specific mandate in mind.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby souravB » 12 Feb 2019 20:08

IMO RM should have a definite policy based on which all the decisions are to be taken. MP's policy was indiginization and he followed it. NS's policy seems like is modernization which oddly matches with the forces.
Whether she had this policy before she took over, influenced by the forces to take this policy or she has no policy at all and just sign papers is anybody's guess.
Even if it is her own policy, she does not seem like to be fighting to implement it as evident by the decrease in defense budget.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby chetak » 12 Feb 2019 20:22

souravB wrote:IMO RM should have a definite policy based on which all the decisions are to be taken. MP's policy was indiginization and he followed it. NS's policy seems like is modernization which oddly matches with the forces.
Whether she had this policy before she took over, influenced by the forces to take this policy or she has no policy at all and just sign papers is anybody's guess.
Even if it is her own policy, she does not seem like to be fighting to implement it as evident by the decrease in defense budget.


she has an excellent work history prior to joining politics. Among other places, she worked in Senior Manager (R&D) for Price Waterhouse in the UK, and held her own there without any father/mother/godfather.

She has an excellent analytical mind, she is nobody's fool and certainly no pushover.

She has a masters from JNU (economics??) and successfully negiotiated that hell hole without becoming a naxal/commie or worse.

The fact that she has direct access to the PM/PMO will make the baboo(n)s very wary of her. Her job is to babysit the rafale deal until the elections and make sure that nothing from her ministry blows up in the BJP's face.

She is part of the team that is going to win the next elections and in the run up to 2019, her job is to make sure that she does not step on any landmines in the MoD.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 12 Feb 2019 22:34

^^chetakji, this is not to she's the worst. Her 17 months have seen more work than entire stint of mundu antony.
What other miracles I would have expected
1. Convincing IA of Arjun in the same way IAF has been convinced of Tejas
2. going out and shutting up media and opponents like modi does
3. $$$ from jetli ji on Mk2, AMCA FSED, Orders on ATAGS.
Lastly, I would have preferred her driving the agenda rather than following whats been set by Modi and team. In my ranking
MP>>>>>> NS>>>AJ
Dont want to keep AKA in the above list

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 12 Feb 2019 22:52

ArjunPandit ---> virtually all the technical aspects of the Arjun tank will be countered by an Armoured Corps that is hell bent against the tank. Nobody knows more tank warfare, doctrine, operational usage, etc better than the Armoured Corps. The end user has to accept the tank, which is still today not happening.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby chetak » 12 Feb 2019 23:00

Rakesh wrote:ArjunPandit ---> virtually all the technical aspects of the Arjun tank will be countered by an Armoured Corps that is hell bent against the tank. Nobody knows more tank warfare, doctrine, operational usage, etc better than the Armoured Corps. The end user has to accept the tank, which is still today not happening.


Its the various lobbies in all spheres of defence procurement imports that resulted in the dilli 5* property called by the IA as the T-90 hotel.

The PM has run afoul of this very powerful lobby.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby chetak » 12 Feb 2019 23:13

ArjunPandit wrote:^^chetakji, this is not to she's the worst. Her 17 months have seen more work than entire stint of mundu antony.
What other miracles I would have expected
1. Convincing IA of Arjun in the same way IAF has been convinced of Tejas
2. going out and shutting up media and opponents like modi does
3. $$$ from jetli ji on Mk2, AMCA FSED, Orders on ATAGS.
Lastly, I would have preferred her driving the agenda rather than following whats been set by Modi and team. In my ranking
MP>>>>>> NS>>>AJ
Dont want to keep AKA in the above list


sir ji,

Let them take up all this post 2019.

now is not the time to talk of such relatively mundane matters.

They are all gearing up for an existential battle right now and neither side has as yet unveiled its brahmastra.

Something very big and very nasty is headed down the road, aimed directly at Modi.

the vultures are just now beginning to gather in numbers as you can see from the sewer inspired reportage of naxalram. Others are eagerly waiting in the wings for their cue.

this is the strategy of one moron's havard inspired tutor as well as entities like cambridge analytica and its clones now firmly entrenched in the Indian electoral battle field.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 12 Feb 2019 23:28

^^harvard inspired tutor??

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby chetak » 13 Feb 2019 00:06

ArjunPandit wrote:^^harvard inspired tutor??


google is your friend

don't take names :)

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Karan M » 13 Feb 2019 02:42

ArjunPandit wrote:^^hope you realize that 17 months is more than 20% of the tenure of this govt, out of which many already had passed. I think she has not been the best of RM for 1. she had to fill in shoes of MP 2. She's not been able to thumb any of the parties a. opposition/media: response has not found too many takers, smriti irani beats here in taking cudgels, b. mod: yes she has concluded the deals, but I am wondering if the files are leaking during her stint or some other time. c. forces: she hasnt pushed them back when needed like MP did in case of tejas. The same old chatter of import is back.


Really? You know each of the claims you make for a fact?
Or have you, on the basis of assumptions, written off the RM.

Here's an article from a few days back about the MOD under RM.
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/arti ... upa/363886

Let's not be presumptuous. We have an efficient administrator who did a good job in pushing commerce now in the MOD at a time when indigenization is a priority. Defence industrial corridors have been set up. Speed of decision making enhanced, red tape cut or bypassed. And we will likely see more of the same judging from current focus.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Karan M » 13 Feb 2019 02:49

ArjunPandit wrote:1. Convincing IA of Arjun in the same way IAF has been convinced of Tejas
2. going out and shutting up media and opponents like modi does
3. $$$ from jetli ji on Mk2, AMCA FSED, Orders on ATAGS.
Lastly, I would have preferred her driving the agenda rather than following whats been set by Modi and team. In my ranking
MP>>>>>> NS>>>AJ
Dont want to keep AKA in the above list


1. IA and Arjun is a whole different ballgame than IAF and Tejas.
2. Modi has not been able to shut up any of his opponents or media. He has been completely lenient towards them and even prevented a fake news policy which would have reined them in, from being passed, in order to curry favor with media houses (mistaken policy IMO).
3. Money comes when money is there.
4. Modi is the PM, buck stops with him and he sets the overall agenda.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby ramana » 13 Feb 2019 03:13

Rakesh or KaranM,
Where did the 126 MRCA number originate?

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Karan M » 13 Feb 2019 03:28

From the original plan to buy 126 Mirage 2000s as a replacement for the retiring MiGs and other middle weights.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 13 Feb 2019 03:30

Karan M wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:^^hope you realize that 17 months is more than 20% of the tenure of this govt, out of which many already had passed. I think she has not been the best of RM for 1. she had to fill in shoes of MP 2. She's not been able to thumb any of the parties a. opposition/media: response has not found too many takers, smriti irani beats here in taking cudgels, b. mod: yes she has concluded the deals, but I am wondering if the files are leaking during her stint or some other time. c. forces: she hasnt pushed them back when needed like MP did in case of tejas. The same old chatter of import is back.


Really? You know each of the claims you make for a fact?
Or have you, on the basis of assumptions, written off the RM.

Here's an article from a few days back about the MOD under RM.
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/arti ... upa/363886

Let's not be presumptuous. We have an efficient administrator who did a good job in pushing commerce now in the MOD at a time when indigenization is a priority. Defence industrial corridors have been set up. Speed of decision making enhanced, red tape cut or bypassed. And we will likely see more of the same judging from current focus.

Karan sir, may I request you to read my other post.


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