VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Ravi Karumanchiri » 11 Apr 2019 11:48

Pakistan Pilots Trained To Fly Rafales? Report Raises Worry For India
Pakistani pilots being exposed to the Rafale platform could be problematic for the Indian Air Force, which receives its first Rafale jets in September this year

All India | Written by Vishnu Som | Updated: April 11, 2019 10:24 IST
<SNIP>

The request for a clarification (also sent to Dassault's corporate headquarters) comes after ainonline.com, an independent media firm which focusses on the aviation sector, reported that "the first batch of pilots trained for Qatar in November 2017 were Pakistani exchange officers." According to Jon Lake, the author of the piece, "Escadron de Chasse 04.030 was established at Mont-de-Marsan as the Qatar Rafale Squadron on Oct. 1, 2017."

Qatar took the delivery of its first Rafale at Dassault's Merignac facility on February 6. In a press statement, Dassault had said Qatar had signed up for 24 Rafale fighters in May 2015. In December 2017, it ordered an additional 12 fighters. The deal for the first 24 fighters is valued at euro 6.3 billion.

Pakistani military personnel have been deputed to operate with the armed forces of several Middle Eastern countries for decades. Pakistan has also received military hardware from partner nations including Jordan, which has supplied Islamabad with 13 additional F-16 A/B fighters, some of which may have been used by the Pakistan Air Force during its failed attack on Indian military targets along the Line of Control on February 27.

In January 2018, the Pakistani news portal http://www.thenews.com.pk reported the visit of the Commander of the Qatar Emiri Air Force to the Pakistan Air Force Headquarters in Islamabad. Pakistan's Air Chief reportedly "offered support and cooperation in the field of aviation and military training" to his counterpart.

<SNIP>

"They would understand the various modes, the look up, look down, compatibility," says Anshuman Mainkar, a former Indian Air Force MiG-27 pilot with more than a decade of experience in flying combat aircraft. "They will know how the weapon system works, and how resistant it is to being jammed."

<SNIP>



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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Karan M » 11 Apr 2019 16:37

Rakesh wrote:Karan, you should see the rhona-dhona on twitter. My oh my! :lol:

You cannot escape this. Just a fact. Take a look at all the seven aircraft in the competition;

1) F-16: Enough Said :)
2) F-18 Super Hornet: Flown by the Kuwaiti Air Force
3) Typhoon: Flown by Saudi Arabia
4) Su-35: China
5) Rafale: Qatar, as indicated above
6) MiG-35: Nobody wants this :lol:
7) Gripen E: Still in IOC mode, but I am sure the Paks will get their hands on via some rich Gulf nation


MiG-35 is flown by the Egyptians, 46 ordered. Now they have ordered some 24x Su-35 as well. They have some 200 F-16s, plus some Mirage 2000s, now the Rafale. :roll:

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Karan M » 11 Apr 2019 16:40

Rakesh wrote:
nachiket wrote:Well it is still better than buying the F-16, which we are still somehow looking at for the new MRCA boondoggle. PAF has 30 plus years experience on the type and know the performance parameters inside out. Yet that didn't disqualify it. So I guess the IAF won't be too concerned about a few pakis getting trained on the Rafale.

We could not alienate LM just because the PAF flies it. So best to let it compete and then reject it outright, just like in the first MMRCA contest.

Sometimes you need to advertise your capability in this manner. Let the Paks know, what the Rafale is capable of doing. All the more better.


We just ordered 24 MH-60R from LockMart to compensate for their F-16 we shot down. They should buy 24x Tejas in return for the Bison. :roll: :| :mrgreen:

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby chola » 11 Apr 2019 16:46

Karan M wrote:
Rakesh wrote:Karan, you should see the rhona-dhona on twitter. My oh my! :lol:

You cannot escape this. Just a fact. Take a look at all the seven aircraft in the competition;

1) F-16: Enough Said :)
2) F-18 Super Hornet: Flown by the Kuwaiti Air Force
3) Typhoon: Flown by Saudi Arabia
4) Su-35: China
5) Rafale: Qatar, as indicated above
6) MiG-35: Nobody wants this :lol:
7) Gripen E: Still in IOC mode, but I am sure the Paks will get their hands on via some rich Gulf nation


MiG-35 is flown by the Egyptians, 46 ordered. Now they have ordered some 24x Su-35 as well. They have some 200 F-16s, plus some Mirage 2000s, now the Rafale. :roll:


Potent force, the Egyptians. And a bigger zoo than even ours when people are complaining about types. lol

200(!) F-Solahs plus SU-35 and Rafale? A Paki would spasm and die in the presense of this menagerie.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Pratyush » 11 Apr 2019 16:55

Karan M wrote:
Rakesh wrote:Karan, you should see the rhona-dhona on twitter. My oh my! :lol:

You cannot escape this. Just a fact. Take a look at all the seven aircraft in the competition;

1) F-16: Enough Said :)
2) F-18 Super Hornet: Flown by the Kuwaiti Air Force
3) Typhoon: Flown by Saudi Arabia
4) Su-35: China
5) Rafale: Qatar, as indicated above
6) MiG-35: Nobody wants this :lol:
7) Gripen E: Still in IOC mode, but I am sure the Paks will get their hands on via some rich Gulf nation


MiG-35 is flown by the Egyptians, 46 ordered. Now they have ordered some 24x Su-35 as well. They have some 200 F-16s, plus some Mirage 2000s, now the Rafale. :roll:



The only way to avoid this is to have totally a domestic force. :mrgreen:

But if we do that it would mean no more komissions.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Karan M » 11 Apr 2019 17:05

chola wrote:
Karan M wrote:
MiG-35 is flown by the Egyptians, 46 ordered. Now they have ordered some 24x Su-35 as well. They have some 200 F-16s, plus some Mirage 2000s, now the Rafale. :roll:


Potent force, the Egyptians. And a bigger zoo than even ours when people are complaining about types. lol

200(!) F-Solahs plus SU-35 and Rafale? A Paki would spasm and die in the presense of this menagerie.


Apparently, they are the only ones in the ME who actually fought the Israelis and managed to inflict some royal pain. The Jordanians are also rans. Hence the Arab states all dip into their pockets and finance the Egyptians. The Egyptians also practice dual sourcing for the same reason, they are suspicious that in a fight up between them and the Israelis, the US may with hold support. Hence the Mirage 2000s, Rafale, Su-35 and MiG-35. Remember, the F-16s and US gear was a replacement for all the free Russian stuff, post Camp David accords.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby chola » 11 Apr 2019 17:25

Karan M wrote:
chola wrote:
Potent force, the Egyptians. And a bigger zoo than even ours when people are complaining about types. lol

200(!) F-Solahs plus SU-35 and Rafale? A Paki would spasm and die in the presense of this menagerie.


Apparently, they are the only ones in the ME who actually fought the Israelis and managed to inflict some royal pain. The Jordanians are also rans. Hence the Arab states all dip into their pockets and finance the Egyptians. The Egyptians also practice dual sourcing for the same reason, they are suspicious that in a fight up between them and the Israelis, the US may with hold support. Hence the Mirage 2000s, Rafale, Su-35 and MiG-35. Remember, the F-16s and US gear was a replacement for all the free Russian stuff, post Camp David accords.


Great point, Karan ji. Unfortunately, it means the Pakis do have theoritical access to DACT of pretty much every important type on the market save the 5th gens.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Vips » 11 Apr 2019 17:35

Guys it is too rich to imagine the GCC countries will give unlimited or full access to pakis to their latest jewels. In the past it may have been so, but now situation is totally different. India has increased heft with these countries and they are investing in our strategic reserves. India is an attractive market for the GCC to park their surplus/sovereign funds, while pakistan is a basket case begging them for funds. UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait have drastically cut on their intake of Pakis in their country with Kuwait not even giving visas to them. Saudi may give access to pakis but that is a big maybe. Why would Egypt do anything for the Pakis?

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 11 Apr 2019 18:05

Look Now a days GCC countries have thier own Nationals as Pilots and Ground crew are from retired Western Country airforces, Pakis just claimed what thier wet dream was telling them

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby mmasand » 11 Apr 2019 21:37

Vips wrote:Guys it is too rich to imagine the GCC countries will give unlimited or full access to pakis to their latest jewels. In the past it may have been so, but now situation is totally different. India has increased heft with these countries and they are investing in our strategic reserves. India is an attractive market for the GCC to park their surplus/sovereign funds, while pakistan is a basket case begging them for funds. UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait have drastically cut on their intake of Pakis in their country with Kuwait not even giving visas to them. Saudi may give access to pakis but that is a big maybe. Why would Egypt do anything for the Pakis?


+102

Whilst some remain in the AF, merely trainers and engineering support. Almost all in combat roles have seen better days. There sentiment has drastically changed in the last 2-4 years.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Lilo » 14 Apr 2019 20:39

Pakistan Air Force flying Rafales report originated in jihadi website
The French embassy in New Delhi quickly denied Pakistani pilots were trained to fly the Rafale aircraft for the Amiri Air Force.
Rakesh Krishnan April 14, 2019

....
In order to get to the bottom of the story, I emailed AIN Executive Editor Marks Phelps about the veracity of Lake's report, considering the French envoy had described it as "fake news". Phelps replied: "I've been in touch with our Defence Editor, and he told me he's removed the reference to Pakistan from the story, but provided this link to a report."

The link provided by Phelps takes you to a website named WAFF - World Armed Forces Forum. Owned by Mike M, it describes itself as a "free speech forum which is now among the most popular on the internet". It claims to have "thousands of members from 140 countries".

After my email, AIN removed the reference to the Pakistani air force officers from its story, indicating that it no longer trusts the authenticity of the source.

Phelps also provided a link to an Arabic language website Youm7 (Seventh Day) from where WAFF had obtained the original information about Pakistani air force officers being trained in Paris to fly Rafales. This Egyptian website seems to be the original cause of the kerfuffle.
.....
Lake responded: "I merely repeated the report on the Arabic language news website Seventh Day (Youm7) which was reposted on WAFF."
.....
London's The Guardian describes the Seventh Day as "one of Egypt's most modern news organisations" and its Editor in Chief Khaled Salah as "an unlikely jihadist". Writing about his experiences on his website the Egyptian says he "fell for the bait of extremist thoughts... I was ready to be martyred for God's Sharia".

Salah has gone to prison several times for plotting the overthrow of President Hosni Mubarak "in order to free the Egyptian army to join the struggle to retake Jerusalem for Islam".
An email has been sent to Cairo-based Seventh Day and a reply from Salah is awaited.

(The author is a New Zealand-based defence and foreign affairs analyst)
Can we compile a list of Indian defence presstitutes who jumped at this "Rafale flown by Paki pilots story" while peddling "their" respective foreign agency's wares which could have better replaced Rafale?
Will be a good exercise to separate wheat from the chaff - too many defence "eggspurts" masquerading around these days.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Manish_Sharma » 15 Apr 2019 12:52

^Vishnu Som also one of experts, later he retracted

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 25 Apr 2019 09:55

:lol: :rotfl: The Irony!!!

Look at top right hand corner and then look at the photograph (or in which order you want!!!)....

Image

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Kakarat » 29 May 2019 17:49

IAF chief's squadron to be first Rafale combat aircraft unit
New Delhi (India), May 29 (ANI): The first Rafale combat aircraft would be inducted into the Indian Air Force's 'Golden Arrows' 17 Squadron which was commanded by Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa during the Kargil war in 1999.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 10 Jun 2019 23:55

Everything why the IAF chose the Rafale in the technical downselect has been summed by the French Minister.

Rafale to be a better tool for sovereignity of India, says French Minister Lemoyne
https://www.businesstoday.in/current/wo ... 55013.html

"The French government doesn't care about controversies and we've a roadmap, we just want to deliver. It's in the interest of the two countries. Rafale is a tool for better sovereignty for India," Lemoyne said.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Kashi » 11 Jun 2019 08:04

It's not for the French minister to decide or comment on matters of our sovereignty. I wish this was something lost in translation.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby rkhanna » 11 Jun 2019 17:17

Kashi wrote:It's not for the French minister to decide or comment on matters of our sovereignty. I wish this was something lost in translation.


He did not.

You can roughly take the translation as - The Rafale is an instrument to enhance the national security of India -

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 12 Jun 2019 05:33

Interesting news...

Dassault Aviation likely to start making Rafale parts in India this year for global clients
https://theprint.in/defence/dassault-av ... ts/248402/


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