VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

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LakshmanPST
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby LakshmanPST » 18 Mar 2020 06:42

A doubt...
Will the latest CoronaVirus pandemic that took over Europe, including France, effect the delivery schedule of the Rafale...?

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby shaun » 18 Mar 2020 08:40

Manish_P wrote:Correct.

And there was a very interesting article, posted in these forums, about how his dad didn't allow the coalition government of the day to scuttle the deal (and get it renegotiated) of the Su 30 MKIs by trying to bring in the bogey of corruption. And how ABV, George Fernandes etc were instrumental in back channel talks with him during that time.

His dad is saner , went to APJ during newclear deal for advice and supported MMS

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 18 Mar 2020 09:42

Photo of the first single seat Rafale is out!!

Serials numbers of single seaters start with BS...

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9282tilg7D ... 3bcziera5b

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 18 Mar 2020 10:51

Rakesh wrote:Photo of the first single seat Rafale is out!!

Serials numbers of single seaters start with BS...

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9282tilg7D ... 3bcziera5b


The French have gone to extraordinary lengths for standardization, thats why the canopy for single seaters is similar to twin seaters

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby JTull » 18 Mar 2020 20:00

Rakesh wrote:Photo of the first single seat Rafale is out!!

Serials numbers of single seaters start with BS...

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9282tilg7D ... 3bcziera5b


Link is not working!

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 18 Mar 2020 22:01

That is weird why it is not working.

Go this link ---> https://www.instagram.com/iaf_ia_in/

The photo is in the first row and it is the second picture

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Kartik » 18 Mar 2020 23:32

Here it is

BS003, the first Rafale single seater that we've seen

Image

Image

pic credit - Swiderek

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Karan M » 19 Mar 2020 13:41

Beauty. These and the upgraded Mirage 2000s will be highly interoperable. A fleet of 86 aircraft with heavily integrated ECM and multi-role capabilities.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Kartik » 20 Mar 2020 01:46

How? There's no ODL or datalink to connect them in the IAF.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby ashishvikas » 20 Mar 2020 22:31

Rafale production halts in France due to COVID-19, jets’ delivery to India could be delayed

If the production facility in France remains shut beyond 31 March, the delivery schedule of Rafale fighter jets to India could get impacted.

SNEHESH ALEX PHILIP
20 March, 2020

https://theprint.in/defence/rafale-prod ... ed/384461/

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Karan M » 21 Mar 2020 03:12

Kartik wrote:How? There's no ODL or datalink to connect them in the IAF.


Meant this. ODL will come too. Till then voice should do.

While the Ambala and Hasimara bases will be the IAF’s principal Rafale centres (17 Squadron ‘Golden Arrows’ is slated to be the inaugural Rafale unit), the Gwalior Mirage 2000 station will be fully integrated right from the start for operations and cooperative training. The collective training and synthetic learning architecture being installed at Ambala and Hasimara will be linked directly to a similar module in Gwalior, being set up for the IAF’s upgraded Mirage 2000-5 fleet (eight have been upgraded so far out of 51). This will allow pilots at the three bases to fly cooperative simulated missions using both aircraft types on a long list of existing and fresh combat scenarios. These will, of course, include area denial combat air patrol operations on the Chinese front and northern sectors, close air support and interdiction missions in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, precision strike missions along the Line of Control and cooperative reconnaissance missions/anti-surface missions on both of India’s seaboards. The experience of the Gwalior squadrons, coupled with the new tools coming with the Rafale will be a huge mutual boost to both bases, types and fleets.


https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/07/14696.html

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Kartik » 21 Mar 2020 05:05

oh ok. So a lot of cooperative training for the Mirage-2000I and Rafale together. Most likely in simulators where simulated missions can be conducted simultaneously from Gwalior and Ambala?

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby suryag » 21 Mar 2020 06:24

My humble plea to GoI is get 36 more of these Rafales and meanwhile please effing sign the contract with HAL for MK1As and MK2s. Just like our forces subject indigenous equipment to multiple summer/winter trials our contracts also need to go through DAC, CCS. MoF multiple times :(

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Karan M » 21 Mar 2020 10:18

Kartik wrote:oh ok. So a lot of cooperative training for the Mirage-2000I and Rafale together. Most likely in simulators where simulated missions can be conducted simultaneously from Gwalior and Ambala?


Cooperative training will lead to cooperative missions too. Both have similar weapons fits as well, likely weapons employments techniques, ECM etc. The Rafale builds upon Mirage 2000 after all. I won't be surprised if the two fleets are operated tightly integrated.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Karan M » 21 Mar 2020 10:19

suryag wrote:My humble plea to GoI is get 36 more of these Rafales and meanwhile please effing sign the contract with HAL for MK1As and MK2s. Just like our forces subject indigenous equipment to multiple summer/winter trials our contracts also need to go through DAC, CCS. MoF multiple times :(


Right now, we can forget about it. Budget will be very tightly squeezed by China's contribution to the world. :x :roll:

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 21 Mar 2020 12:15

Rafale production halts in France due to COVID-19, jets’ delivery to India could be delayed
https://theprint.in/defence/rafale-prod ... ed/384461/

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby ranjan.rao » 21 Mar 2020 13:17

Karan M wrote:
suryag wrote:My humble plea to GoI is get 36 more of these Rafales and meanwhile please effing sign the contract with HAL for MK1As and MK2s. Just like our forces subject indigenous equipment to multiple summer/winter trials our contracts also need to go through DAC, CCS. MoF multiple times :(


Right now, we can forget about it. Budget will be very tightly squeezed by China's contribution to the world. :x :roll:

Hope it means more Tejas

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Khalsa » 21 Mar 2020 17:22

The MMRCA is the eternal carrot that just keeps on giving.
You can sleep without worrying... more Tejas are coming in the form of FOC, Mk1A, Mk2 aka MWF

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 29 Mar 2020 02:57

This picture is so bloody gorgeous, it does not need a caption!

That looks right out of a Star Trek flick!

https://twitter.com/joe_sameer/status/1 ... 22758?s=20 --->

Image

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 06 Apr 2020 18:40

So as per Group Captain MJA Vinod (retd), this is an IAF Rafale flying over Nagpur.

Then i read the entire twitter thread.... :lol: Click on link below...

https://twitter.com/MjaVinod/status/1246677096161632256 ---> Rafale over Nagpur, low level high speed pass, watch this thread for more.

Image

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby amar_p » 08 Apr 2020 17:48

Rafale Biplane accident during a demo flight of Armée de l'Air (French AF) with civilian "visitor" aboard on 20th March 2019 at Saint-Dizier air force base. Civilian pulled eject cord in panic and ejected, pilot seat did not eject though in DUO ejection setting. Luckily the civilian survived, and to his credit the pilot landed the bird safely. Interested might want to translate and read carefully. Lot of flight safety violations and equipment failures.

Here is the preliminary report:

Un passager de Rafale s'éjecte par erreur… et rien ne va plus
https://www.lepoint.fr/societe/un-passager-de-rafale-s-ejecte-par-erreur-et-rien-ne-va-plus-08-04-2020-2370568_23.php

Image

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Manish_P » 09 Apr 2020 15:47

^ Good aerodynamics, flight control systems and damn good piloting though.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby chetonzz » 09 Apr 2020 15:53

Vayusena Rafale by a member of facebook group- "Indian Scale Modellers"

there are more

Image

Image

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 09 Apr 2020 18:54

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/12481 ... 64162?s=20 ---> A trail of human & technical failures on Dassault Rafale...

64 year old un-briefed friend, subjected to +/-ve G

Holds on to ejection handle
Rear seat ejects
Front canopy shatters
Front seat fails to eject

Saved by the skin of their teeth
No fatalities

Fighter jet crash averted by defect in civil ejection incident
https://www.aerotime.aero/clement.charp ... n-incident
08 April 2020

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 10 Apr 2020 11:28

This incident shows what a stupid thing Sonia Gandhi and her Coterie's especially in Media did. Just to state that what APJ Abdul Kalam did was not that great they made Pratiba Patil ride in a SU 30MKI, this could have easily happened then.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Manish_P » 10 Apr 2020 13:11

Having read about her antecedents and her antics as a politician very close to the you-know-who, I wouldn't have been bothered too much about her ejection. I would have been more worried about the IAF pilot and the aircraft :-?

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 10 Apr 2020 13:30

My worry is about the risk to a trained IAF pilot, a SU 30MKI and post of a President of India- all bad optics but risk taken just to downplay what APJ Kalam did.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Manish_P » 10 Apr 2020 14:20

The risk to the pilot and the plane is always there.. every single time they fly. Purely between presidents APJ & PP, i am clear who was more valuable to the nation and hence who i would have preferred not to take risks.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Kartik » 11 Apr 2020 05:23

From AW&ST, the most details on what circumstances prior to the flight and immediately upon take-off, caused the 64 old civilian to mistakenly pull on the ejection seat handle.



A ride in a French Air Force Rafale B didn’t go as planned when an overstressed back-seat passenger inadvertently ejected from the two-seat fighter, and the aircraft was saved only because of a previously undetected flaw that prevented the pilot’s ejection, a new French military report says.

The back-seat passenger on the March 2019 flight from Saint Dizier, France was a 64-year-old contractor responsible for the test activity of a French armaments company, according to the report published April 6 by the French military’s air accident investigation office.

When the passenger arrived in Saint Dizier the evening before the flight, he was unaware that his colleagues had arranged a special, back-seat ride in the French Air Force’s most advanced fighter, the report says.

His colleagues, who included a former French Air Force pilot, wanted to make the flight a surprise, but they didn’t count on the prospective passenger’s reaction.

The passenger “never expressed a desire to carry out this type of flight and, in particular, on Rafale,” according to a translated copy of the French-language report.

Because the gesture was meant as a surprise, the passenger was informed only hours before the flight, leaving little time for him to prepare. The passenger did not feel he could decline the gesture, bowing to the social pressure imposed by his colleagues, the report says.

A required, preflight medical examination resulted in a recommendation by the doctor to limit any maneuver forces to less than 3gs. An office electronic system failure, however, prevented the doctor’s guidance from being relayed to the passenger or the pilot of the Rafale involved in the mishap, the report says.

The hastily-arranged surprise also meant that the passenger had to hitch a ride on whatever flight was already arranged on that day, which was a routine patrol mission by three aircraft. Such missions include a standard climb immediately after takeoff with loads greater than 4.5gs, the report says.

The passenger appeared enthusiastic to the pilot as he climbed into his cockpit, but there were signs that he was overstressed. The passenger’s wristwatch recorded his heart beats per minute. The maximum heart rate for a man of his age is 156 beats per minute, according to the report. His was racing from 136 to 142 as he seated himself.

Perhaps due to the stress, the passenger failed to properly buckle in. The back side of his shoulder strap allowed more motion than necessary, the report says. In addition, he didn’t fasten the right leg of his pressure suit, lower the helmet visor or snap the chin strap of his helmet.

The passenger’s experience in the back seat of the Rafale would be brief.

As the pilot rotated on takeoff, the Rafale rapidly developed aerodynamic loads over 4.5gs. Within about 10 sec. of rotation, the pilot leveled off quickly, causing the loads to invert to negative 0.63gs. The shocked passenger, whose loose shoulder straps may have allowed him to start floating upward, reached for a handle, which happened to be the mechanism that causes his seat to eject.

Because the passenger had failed to lower his visor and fasten his chin strap, the exposure to the 200-kt. air flow outside the aircraft caused his helmet to fly off, the report says. Besides minor injuries to his face, the passenger landed safely by the runway after his parachute opened at around 2,000 ft.

The passenger’s inadvertent ejection command could have been disastrous for the aircraft. The two-seat version of the Rafale allows the pilot to select between two options: “1” allows only a single seat to eject when one handle is pulled, and “2” commands both seats to eject when only one is pulled. The pilot had selected the “2” option for this flight, the report says, meaning the pilot’s seat was also supposed to eject.

The ejection sequence proceeded normally, with the canopy of both seats shattering and the back seat firing. However, the explosive charge connected to the front seat never received a command to fire, the report says. As a result, the pilot remained on board the aircraft, albeit with a missing canopy and back seat. The pilot dumped fuel and returned to Saint Dizier to land, the report says. The aircraft was secured for 24 hr. until the front seat’s explosive charge could be disarmed.


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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby nachiket » 11 Apr 2020 05:39

Heads need to roll for this fiasco. Shockingly unprofessional behavior all around.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Karan M » 11 Apr 2020 06:19

Too darn funny though, story for the ages. The poor guy.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby sajaym » 11 Apr 2020 08:29

nachiket wrote:Heads need to roll for this fiasco. Shockingly unprofessional behavior all around.


+100.

Poor preparation of the civilian by the pilot & support staff before letting him go on board an important platform like the Rafale. Maybe because they have plenty of Rafales to go around. Poor peoples like Indians take extra care. In this video at 13:30, before his flight the TV anchor is actually made to sit in an ejection seat mockup & has ejection process explained to him AND allowed to practice as well. Briefings and support is given to him till he is fully strapped in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsTxFobOrP4&t=352s

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Atmavik » 11 Apr 2020 08:42

strange incident. this concerns me about the ejector seat in Rafael.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Prithwiraj » 11 Apr 2020 10:34

This will concern the french as well so good that it came out early. They will fix it before we operationalize them

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Karan M » 11 Apr 2020 12:36

So late in the production process and the MB seat/French setup had a mistake that didn't allow both seats to fire together, and it was discovered only now.

Food for thought!

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 11 Apr 2020 12:47

Another take for all is that for a product in production - granted with a few India specific enhancements, it takes the French 5-8 years to deliver. I hope Indian leadership and miltary beauracary understand on the urgency LCA mk1A orders and order a few of the bird in hand LCA FOC

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby amar_p » 11 Apr 2020 17:15

A few more details which the AW & ST report seems to have missed from the original report in French, which reads like a comedy of errors.

Maintenance errors:
- The front seat did not eject due to an insufficiently tightened connector between the relay box and the front seat pyrotechnic pack. This was a maintenance error that proved to be lucky.

- Also, the backseat that ejected failed to deploy a flotation balloon which automatically deploys in case the ejection may occur over water. Thats another maintenance mistake in the way the balloon was packed into its container. Fortunately the ejection took place over land.


There were also several procedural lapses when flying a civilian passenger:
- No specific civilian pax checklist was in place at Armée de l'air like the one that exists for Rafale Marine in the Navy.
Guest fliers are supposed to fly a simpler envelope, not the aggressive take off of a routine patrol sortie into which this pax was squeezed into. The Rafale-B pilot was 3rd to take off as part of a 3 bird formation each bird taking off at 30 second intervals, he nevertheless planned a simpler envelope post take off due to the civilian pax, but did not get or take the time to brief the passenger pre-flight about what to expect during the flight in detail.

- There was clear negligence in familiarising the passenger adequately about the cockpit environment, controls, what to do and not to do. Despite the pilot and flight technician checking the passenger after strapping in, they failed to ensure the g-suit was worn correctly, that the pax was strapped in ***tightly***, helmet chin strap was securely fastened, at least one of the 2 visors was locked down covering the face at all times. They just assumed the pax would do as told and did not physically verify.

All these errors would have gone unnoticed, except that the hard 4G take off at 50°achieved 280 kt and alt of 1330 feet within 8 seconds pushing the pax deep and hard down into his seat, the pilot then sharply levelled off and decelerated to about -0.63 G and this almost 5G force transition happened within a couple of seconds. The 60+ aged pax who was really into the surprise factor and already tense before takeoff, was first pushed hard down into the seat crushing his ass and instantly shot up experiencing -ve G and being somewhat loosely strapped in, would have felt this butt leave the seat and his head is going right into the canopy. In a panic reflex he held on to the 'handy' eject handle as his body continued to rise in the seat, effectively tugging hard and sharp on the ejection handle leading to the ejection.

The rest is described above.

Given we have an endless stream of civilian pax like ministers, politicians, journos, sports people, film stars... the list goes on, riding LCAs and MKIs now and then, our pilots and flight safety officers in IAF & HAL should read this report and create or check/update their specific checklists and conduct staff reinforcement sessions so that we don't create similar scenarios despite all the care we take.

Our pilots getting trained and technicians getting certified on Rafale mono & biplace versions must ensure the Martin Baker MKF16F integration and maintenance directives updated by Dassault are well noted and understood.

Its cheaper to learn from other's mistakes.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Kartik » 13 Apr 2020 23:27

AFAIK, the IAF won't give civvies joyrides like this. Except for media persons and politicians. But nevertheless, this is an incident from which a lot of learning must be taken. Putting old men and women in the back seat will risk their lives as well as what is an extremely valuable national asset unnecessarily.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 13 Apr 2020 23:36

Coronavirus impact | First batch of Rafales likely to fly in late
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 325582.ece
13 April 2020

“In mid-March there were 8-9 weeks of training left before the first major group could move to India for starting operations here. Some logistic support equipment and test equipment were also to be flown to Ambala beginning April, which is postponed as of now due to the lockdown and restrictions on flights imposed by India,” a defence source told The Hindu on condition of anonymity.

In addition, the lockdown restrictions are expected to continue in France at least till the end of April due to severity of the outbreak. “So, it is only obvious that we expect corresponding delay,” the two sources separately stated.

“Taking in the delay due to the lockdown in France, followed by any restrictions on flights and personnel coming from Europe imposed by India, we could be looking at July[for the arrival of the aircraft],” the first source stated, adding that the time frame was not clear yet.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Roop » 27 Apr 2020 08:27

In response to a question that came up on another thread:

Karan M wrote:The Rafale ISE's are not in public domain, but:


The following YT link claims to list the 13 ISEs in the Rafale deal. I don't know how reliable this is, but I offer it FWIW.



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