VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Karan M » 27 Apr 2020 12:38

Will check, but meanwhile, CAG. I wonder if A1 is NGARM and A2 is Kh-31P.

Audit aligned the scope of the offer of 2007 and contract of 2016. The 2007 offer included Missiles ‘A1’ which was excluded by IAF in 2015 because it was being developed indigenously by Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO). In place of Missiles ‘A1’, IAF included Missile ‘A2’ for integration on the aircraft.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby shaun » 27 Apr 2020 12:51

Roop wrote:In response to a question that came up on another thread:

Karan M wrote:The Rafale ISE's are not in public domain, but:


The following YT link claims to list the 13 ISEs in the Rafale deal. I don't know how reliable this is, but I offer it FWIW.



probably taken from this https://trishul-trident.blogspot.com/20 ... tings.html


All the IAF Rafales will feature 14 customer-specific modifications, comprising
1) integration of the RAFAEL-supplied LITENING target acquisition/designation pod
2) integration of the RAFAEL-supplied Spice-1000 standoff PGM and its related data-link pod
3) integration of MBDA-supplied Meteor BVRAAM and ALARM anti-radiation missile
4) integration of the RAFAEL-supplied X-Guard towed-decoy and development of its on-board location cabinets
5) upgradation of the SPECTRA EW suite to accommodate low-band, medium-band and high-band directional jammer apertures
6) integration of the TARGO-2 HMDS supplied by Elbit Systems (also ordered by Qatar
7) installation of a THALES-supplied traffic collision avoidance system (TCAS)
8 ) installation of a THALES-supplied standby radar altimeter
9) Optimisation of the M88 turbofan’s jet-fuel starter for operating in sub-zero temperatures at altitudes above 9,000 feet ASL
10) increase in the capacity of the on-board OBOGS
11) addition of weather-mapping mode of operation in the THALES-supplied RBE-2 AESA-MMR
12) development of quad-pack ejectors for the DRDO-engineered and Spice-250 PGM-derived SAAW EMP-generating standoff PGM
13) assistance in flight-qualification of DRDO-developed 450kg laser-guided HSLD bomb and integration of the bomb’s FOG-based inertial navigation system with the Rafale’s on-board Sigma-95N RLG-INS through a MIL-STD-1553B interface
14) modification of the Sigma-95N RLG-INS’ coupled GPS transceiver in order to receive MIL-STD PY-code coordinates from India’s NAVIC/IRNSS constellation of GPS satellites.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Karan M » 27 Apr 2020 12:56

Jeez, if its Prasun chances are high its includes a lot of speculation. EMP emitting SAAW, ALARM (which is no longer in production IIRC)..

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 27 Apr 2020 21:11

Exactly. Prasun is full of it.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 15 May 2020 13:33

The first 4 birds will touchdown at July 20 end.

India set to receive four Rafale fighters by July-end after two-month delay due to COVID-19 lockdown
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/arti ... own/592263
15 May 2020

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Kartik » 16 May 2020 05:10

Looks like Rafale training ops are back in full swing.

Image credits in the pic itself

RB004
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Beautiful ass on the Rafale
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Kartik » 16 May 2020 05:13

Image credits in the pics themselves

RB001

Image

RB001 and RB002

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RB002

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RB006

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RB007

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 19 May 2020 21:21

https://twitter.com/AirPowerAsia/status ... 23042?s=20 ---> The first four Rafale are now set to arrive in India (Ambala) by end July 2020. To avoid too many stops (Covid) en-route, the aircraft will have a long flight from Bordeaux in France to Al Dhafra in UAE. The flights will be supported by aerial refueling. Indian Air Force is looking forward.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby TushS » 20 May 2020 00:43

Kartik wrote:Beautiful ass on the Rafale

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: It always turns me on.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Kartik » 20 May 2020 04:18

More IAF Rafale *****

Image credits in the pics themselves.

RB 002

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RB004

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Kartik » 21 May 2020 00:19

the IAF Rafale single seater BS004

Image credit in the pics themselves

Image

Image

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby basant » 24 May 2020 22:55

There will be no delay in supply of Rafale jets to India: France
NEW DELHI:
There will be no delay in delivery of 36 Rafale jets to India as the timeline finalised for the supply of the fighter jets will be strictly respected, French Ambassador Emmanuel Lenain has said.
...


See also article from The Hindu

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby fanne » 25 May 2020 04:25

IAF has used composite wings (like mixing Mig 21 and SU30MKI) to surprise the enemy. In exercise against the US, Mig 21 were able to take shots against F15 ably assisted by SU30MKI. Since we will be getting limited numbers of Rafale, could it be that we fly it along with other planes like SU30MKI, M2K, M29 etc? That way a single Rafale be go a long way. Instead of 2 rafale or 4 flying in same type formation, (2 ship formation will give us 18 flights, while 4 will give 9). Not all will be in air at any given time. But if we integrate MKI, M2K etc. in a formation of say 4 ships, only 1 is Rafale and rest 3 are SU30MKI or M2k. We can then have 36 potential groups. But can these planes interoperate?
In post Balakot, just having 1 Rafale would have complicated TSP plans.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby srai » 25 May 2020 06:27

^^^
How about Rafale and LCA pairing? Rafales provide long-range protection for LCA ingress and egress. LCA uses that umbrella to sneak in and fire kill shots from close ranges and then escape.

Need to get LCAs in numbers though. Once MWF comes into the picture excess LCA could be “donated” to friendly nations under a strategic partnership model. India still recoups costs through weapons, training, maintenance and spares for the life of the airframes.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Karan M » 25 May 2020 06:32

With the ODL first going on the Su-30 and Tejas, expect them to start sneaky tactics, first and foremost.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 25 May 2020 11:05

fanne wrote:IAF has used composite wings (like mixing Mig 21 and SU30MKI) to surprise the enemy. In exercise against the US, Mig 21 were able to take shots against F15 ably assisted by SU30MKI. Since we will be getting limited numbers of Rafale, could it be that we fly it along with other planes like SU30MKI, M2K, M29 etc? That way a single Rafale be go a long way. Instead of 2 rafale or 4 flying in same type formation, (2 ship formation will give us 18 flights, while 4 will give 9). Not all will be in air at any given time. But if we integrate MKI, M2K etc. in a formation of say 4 ships, only 1 is Rafale and rest 3 are SU30MKI or M2k. We can then have 36 potential groups. But can these planes interoperate?
In post Balakot, just having 1 Rafale would have complicated TSP plans.


I feel this is what made Swift Retort to Swift retreat, 6 F-16's + 2 JF 17 were firing Amraams at the 2 SU-30 MKI at Max range allowing space to Launch LGB at our Brigade HQ, they would have kept at it till they got confirmation they hit a miltary target, giving us a bloody nose, into this melee using the Pri Panjal mountains as cover, the 2 Mig 21 Bisons came in , with SAAB AEW warning all F-16;s turned tail, one of them was caught in a wrong position and fired off its Amraam at the Mig 21 Bison before it was hit by the R-73 Missile, This is the most likely scenario after seeing all the evidence.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby deejay » 25 May 2020 11:31

Karan M wrote:With the ODL first going on the Su-30 and Tejas, expect them to start sneaky tactics, first and foremost.


Su 30s are a natural choice given their nos and other pairing advantages like buddy refueling. Tejas of course starts to grow from here. Another 05 years and IAF won't look any further.

Tejas is that good.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby abhik » 25 May 2020 12:12

Mods can you add FAQs to the first post like the Tejas thread?

Had a few questions on the timelines - How may IAF Rafales have been produced till date, how many have been handed over to IAF, when is the last one expected to be handed over, also does IAF have an "FOC" or equivalent date for it?

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby basant » 25 May 2020 13:37

Karan M wrote:With the ODL first going on the Su-30 and Tejas, expect them to start sneaky tactics, first and foremost.

That would be at least in 2022 or so, right? :-?
Looks too far in future. :cry:

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Karan M » 25 May 2020 16:51

They are already being fitted out to the aircraft. FOC standard LCA Mk1 includes ODL. Adding all the modes will take time.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby ks_sachin » 25 May 2020 17:11

THE LCA IS PRETTIER....
THE RAFAEL reminds me of a kid whose cheeks have been pulled apart and pinched by an untold number of uncles and aunts....all the while saying "Oh you have grown so much!!!"

Kartik wrote:the IAF Rafale single seater BS004

Image credit in the pics themselves

Image

Image

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 25 May 2020 18:35

abhik wrote:Mods can you add FAQs to the first post like the Tejas thread?

Had a few questions on the timelines - How may IAF Rafales have been produced till date, how many have been handed over to IAF, when is the last one expected to be handed over, also does IAF have an "FOC" or equivalent date for it?

RB001 to RB008 are all flying if I am not mistaken. That is eight twin seaters right there. RB008 will be the last Rafale to be delivered to the IAF and is the first aircraft in the full spec ISE configuration. RB008 will undergo testing till 2022 and once complete...all the remaining 35 aircraft will be upgraded by Sept 2022. Perhaps that could be considered as the FOC date. Two or more single seaters (BS003 and BS004 for sure, as pictures exist) are flying as well. That is around 2+ aircraft. So around 10 birds are flying right now. The last Rafale to arrive in India was scheduled to be in April 2022, but could be delayed due to the first batch being delayed by two months.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby basant » 25 May 2020 19:53

Karan M wrote:They are already being fitted out to the aircraft. FOC standard LCA Mk1 includes ODL. Adding all the modes will take time.

Thanks sir for the clarification! :D

I based my inference from Nilesh Rane and Mihir Shah's article in DDR written last year. It said,
Of course, a lot of the requisite components and technologies are at a nascent stage, but are nevertheless being developed even as we write this. In fact, let alone the AMCA, we should see even the LCA/MWF and the Su-30MKI receiving significant network-centric capabilities in the years ahead.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Karan M » 26 May 2020 04:11

India purchased some 483 SDRs, they are being fitted out to a mix of the Su-30s, Tejas (for which its a FOC requirement), Jaguars (if I remember correctly) and also some ground stations.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby srai » 26 May 2020 05:55

^^^
What was the hold-up all these years for not getting SDRs/secure comms?

From what I remember vaguely, IPKF SriLanka suffered from the same non-secure comms issue in the late eighties.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby ks_sachin » 26 May 2020 07:51

srai wrote:^^^
What was the hold-up all these years for not getting SDRs/secure comms?

From what I remember vaguely, IPKF SriLanka suffered from the same non-secure comms issue in the late eighties.



Its a phenomenon of physics called Inertia aided by a generous dose of focus on marquee acquisitions...
To this add SDRs add BPJ's, helmets, rifles, radios etc...

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby manjgu » 26 May 2020 11:43

getting a 3rd a/c carrier seems more imp !!!

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Mort Walker » 27 May 2020 12:29

So assuming 4 will come in July, maybe in June while tensions with the Chinese are high, will make no difference in the strategic outlook for India.

That nearly $9 billion should have gone into the the capital investment for LCA production followed by Tejas Mk1 and Mk1A orders. We need 10 squadrons of the Tejas today!

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby deejay » 27 May 2020 16:51

srai wrote:^^^
What was the hold-up all these years for not getting SDRs/secure comms?

From what I remember vaguely, IPKF SriLanka suffered from the same non-secure comms issue in the late eighties.


There were reports of ODL contract way back in 2009. Tender was floated in 2006. Don't know what happened. Or maybe we all know what happened.

https://www.domain-b.com/defence/air_space/iaf/20090120_iai_bags_contract.html

A global tender for the pilot project had apparently been issued in 2006. Though all three vendors were technically qualified IAI had bid the lowest amount. If reports are to be believed then Rafael apparently offered to carry out the contract for free, which apparently became a ground for its rejection!

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby deejay » 27 May 2020 16:52

manjgu wrote:getting a 3rd a/c carrier seems more imp !!!


Very insightful Sir.


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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby vishvak » 30 May 2020 18:33

That nearly $9 billion should have gone into the the capital investment for LCA production followed by Tejas Mk1 and Mk1A orders. We need 10 squadrons of the Tejas today!

There are few options like Rafale (or none) that offers geopolitical freedom and tech prowess. Mk2 Tejas surely will gain from flying such an amazing aircraft though not opposing investment in LCA.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby ks_sachin » 30 May 2020 19:48

vishvak wrote:
That nearly $9 billion should have gone into the the capital investment for LCA production followed by Tejas Mk1 and Mk1A orders. We need 10 squadrons of the Tejas today!

There are few options like Rafale (or none) that offers geopolitical freedom and tech prowess. Mk2 Tejas surely will gain from flying such an amazing aircraft though not opposing investment in LCA.

What will it gain?
Why do we need any kind of validation from the French?

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby fanne » 30 May 2020 20:28

if I had any power, I would have the indian contingent get operationalized in France itself (as the FAF has operational experience in the plane) and then come to India so that these planes are operational from day 1. If it pushes home coming by x month so be it. We need them now, not take 2 years in desh to operationalize it.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby fanne » 30 May 2020 20:33

We have 10 IAF Rafales flying in France. One will be used for R&D, so 9 can come to India (that is 25% of the strength). I am sure IAF is training its cream in France. Send the next cream batch, and have it ready and operational. If Rafales are that good, 9 would make a difference.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby vishvak » 31 May 2020 00:31

What will it gain?
Why do we need any kind of validation from the French?

IAF must have gained valuable experience flying Mirage for decades and more than validation it is about getting more than average ie best fighter jet per MMRCA conditions.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 31 May 2020 03:58

fanne wrote:if I had any power, I would have the indian contingent get operationalized in France itself (as the FAF has operational experience in the plane) and then come to India so that these planes are operational from day 1. If it pushes home coming by x month so be it. We need them now, not take 2 years in desh to operationalize it.

The IAF contingent - air and ground crew - are trained to fly and maintain the Rafale as soon as it lands in India. No worries there.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby fanne » 31 May 2020 05:33

Trained and operational are different. All Pilots of 45 sq are trained in LCA, and have been for years, but the plane may just be getting operational (if that). It takes time to develop doctrines, tactic, integration with other assets etc.
Operational also means much more than being well trained and would come mainly from experience and constant evaluation. In war time (like ww2), planes were obviously operationalized instantly but in peace time it is done over time (it is the most optimum). Unfortunately we are running against time.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby manjgu » 31 May 2020 08:18

fanne wrote:Trained and operational are different. All Pilots of 45 sq are trained in LCA, and have been for years, but the plane may just be getting operational (if that). It takes time to develop doctrines, tactic, integration with other assets etc.
Operational also means much more than being well trained and would come mainly from experience and constant evaluation. In war time (like ww2), planes were obviously operationalized instantly but in peace time it is done over time (it is the most optimum). Unfortunately we are running against time.


well said..but if really needed it will see combat as soon as it lands

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby srai » 31 May 2020 09:19

^^^
... in limited capacity that is.


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