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VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Viv S » 09 Jan 2017 02:24

Rakesh wrote:Which squadron serves at Hasimara AFS operating MiG-27s?

16 Wing. No. 22 Swifts & No. 222 Tigersharks.

222's aircraft are older, it'll need to convert to the Su-30 (or be number plated) earlier. The Rafale will probably end up being operated by No. 22 (unless they move the squadrons around).

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 09 Jan 2017 04:49

Viv, check this article out...from April 2016...

MiG-27 squadron number-plated at Hasimara
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/kolkata/MiG-27-squadron-number-plated-at-Hasimara/articleshow/51846931.cms

I now realise where the goof up happened on a post I made on 28 Dec 2016. zone5aviation's twitter feed (link below) stated that No 17 Sqn was going to be raised up as a Rafale squadron.

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/813997803332509697

That was a typo, because it was meant to be No 18 Squadron and not No 17 Squadron. The latter operates Rambhas out of Bhatinda AFS. See below.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._17_Squadron_IAF

Indian Defence Research Wing (IDRW.org) also published a news item with the same (incorrect) info. See below.

http://idrw.org/decorated-no-17-golden-arrows-squadron-belonging-sqn-ldr-ajay-ahuja-new-air-chief-resurrected-first-rafale-squadron-iaf/

One typo error (17 vs 18) on the keyboard and see what happens :)

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 09 Jan 2017 23:01


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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 10 Jan 2017 01:49


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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 12 Jan 2017 21:01

Rafale serials are out!!! Use google translate as the page is in French...

EH - single seater
DH - dual seater

H stands for Hindustan. Kinda weird, but I think E is Ek (One) and D is Do (Two) :mrgreen:

http://www.defens-aero.com/2017/01/rafale-indiens-denomination-rafale-eh-rafale-dh.html

The Mirage 2000 used a similar nomenclature. Prior to upgrade....single seater was H (Hindustan) and dual seater was TH (Trainer Hindustan). After upgrade, they became I (India) and TI (Trainer India)

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 12 Jan 2017 21:33

Beautiful shot of Rafale M coming in for landing aboard French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle with tailhook down

https://twitter.com/FFArmadasAR/status/819008330349809664

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Cybaru » 12 Jan 2017 22:51

Belly landing! Looks like flyby.. No wheels..

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 12 Jan 2017 22:53

damn! I am bloody blind :oops:

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 12 Jan 2017 23:32

Indian team to visit France to review Rafale jet production
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/indian-team-to-visit-france-to-review-rafale-jet-production/articleshow/56499404.cms

The first Rafale fighter is expected to come to India a few months earlier than the scheduled date in 2019.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 13 Jan 2017 01:43

More Rafales for India Still Likely
http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2017-01-12/more-rafales-india-still-likely

Contrary to some previous indications, India is considering an additional 36 Dassault Rafales, a senior Ministry of Defence official said. The contract is likely to be signed in 2019 with deliveries to start by 2022, when the existing $8.8 billion order for 36 Rafales is completed, AIN has learned from sources close to the long-running procurement process.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby nits » 13 Jan 2017 13:21

But why to order so late; order now so that delivery can start early...

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Karthik S » 13 Jan 2017 20:53

There is no point in waiting till 2019 for additional Rafales that too for additional 36.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 18 Jan 2017 22:26

Flight Test - Rafale
http://www.defesanet.com.br/en/air/noticia/23607/FLIGHT-TEST--RAFALE/
September 24, 2016

DefesaNet flight tested India’s new fighter. Our test pilot pushed Dassault’s fighter jet to her limits, and here ‘le Commandant Vianney’ shares his impressions. Read it, enjoy it, and take your own conclusions if Rafale is worth every Rupee paid for it.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 24 Jan 2017 22:03

India-UAE to Explore Joint-Production of Aircraft
https://sputniknews.com/business/201701241049960546-india-uae-aircraft/

"For example, as in the case of Rafale, which we are buying and UAE is also using (the Rafale), there is some interest. This is something that we can do together in terms of portion of the Rafale that would be built in India. Those are the areas that we are identifying and will work together," Amar Sinha added.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Gagan » 25 Jan 2017 08:39

India-UAE:
1. DRDO-Embraer AEW
2. LCA Tejas

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Viv S » 25 Jan 2017 08:45

Rakesh wrote:Rafale serials are out!!! Use google translate as the page is in French...

EH - single seater
DH - dual seater

H stands for Hindustan. Kinda weird, but I think E is Ek (One) and D is Do (Two) :mrgreen:

Heh heh. Not quite. The serial prefixes for the Qatari jets are EQ & DQ while those for the Egyptian ones are EM & DM.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Bishwa » 25 Jan 2017 18:46

My understanding is the Arabic name for Egypt is Misr/Masr.

The name Misr comes from Mizraim, a son of Sam the son of Noah, that settled in Egypt after the flood is my understand.

Even the Hindi name for Egypt is similar no?

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Prithwiraj » 25 Jan 2017 19:38

Bengali name of Egypt is also Mishor

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 25 Jan 2017 21:24

So if H is Hindustan, Q is Qatar, M is Misr/Masr/Mishor (Egypt)....does E and D stand for un/une and deux?

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 26 Jan 2017 23:27

Qatari Air Force will use TARGO-II Helmet Mounted Display with their Rafales...
http://www.defens-aero.com/dassault-avi ... -qatariens

Since the above link is in French, copy the url and paste it in the link below...
http://itools.com/tool/google-translate ... translator

For more info on the Targo-II HMD, please go here.
http://elbitsystems.com/product/targo/

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 27 Jan 2017 00:04

Flying with India's flying colors. Wishing India a very happy Republic Day
https://twitter.com/Dassault_OnAir/stat ... 4647436290

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 27 Jan 2017 00:07

I have not seen a SCALP missile mounted under a Rafale jet...until now
https://twitter.com/RafaleAddict/status ... 0158650368

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby NRao » 28 Jan 2017 09:18


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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Austin » 30 Jan 2017 18:05

Image

According to defens-aero.com and after observing the photographs, the Qatar Air Force decided to equip itself with the sight of new helmet-mounted display systems. The system called Targo 2 and developed by Israel’s Elbit Systems.

The Targo solution enables pilots to plan, rehearse, fly and debrief using their personal helmets, providing them with increased situational awareness, safety levels and operational abilities. Targo is available in a stand-alone configuration or fully integrated with the aircraft’s avionics, including the Embedded Virtual Avionics (EVA™) training solution.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby JayS » 07 Feb 2017 00:15

Small Vid on Rafale Assembly line. Apologies if already posted on BRF..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj4NMkzIzPs

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 07 Feb 2017 06:38

never apologise for Katrina :mrgreen:

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 07 Feb 2017 06:47

DASSAULT AND RELIANCE ADAG CLEARED TO FORM RAFALE JOINT-VENTURE IN INDIA
http://quwa.org/2017/02/05/dassault-rel ... ure-india/

Dassault Reliance Aerospace Limited (DRAL) Is The New JV of Reliance Aerostructure and Dassault Aviation
http://defenceaviationpost.com/reliance ... clearance/

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 07 Feb 2017 06:47

Air Force declines to share details on Rafale deal
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 980097.cms

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 16 Feb 2017 09:43

Can’t advance Rafale deliveries: Dassault
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/C ... 309183.ece

Need more numbers to make Rafale in India, says Dassault Aviation CEO
http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation ... 64474.html


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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Karan M » 23 Feb 2017 01:08

Just as a point, note the amount of positive PR in the above - when was the last time we heard about some thing about India? Just as a comparison, India has the following AESA systems in induction or at verge of Induction

- S-Band: Arudhra, Ashwini, AEW&CS, MFR
- X Atulya, QRSAM, Uttam
- C- QRSAM
- L - LRTR

The list goes on and on - not a peep out of the more modest and PR averse Indian establishment. There are just cursory notes of AESA development at BEL and production is being placed. But not anywhere near the suave mentions planted in friendly press like the global guys like above do.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Kartik » 23 Feb 2017 01:32

Well, Karan, frankly, the Indian establishment needs to do more PR.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Austin » 26 Feb 2017 20:50

India Should Order 200 Rafale Jets For Transfer Of Technology: Dassault CEO

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/18499/ ... LKCAvJcuNo

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby srin » 26 Feb 2017 22:17

^^^ This is what they promised for 126 jets, now they want 200 !

I've been reading condescension and arrogance in Dassault assertions especially in the past fortnight. Whining about the 36-plane deal is beating a dead horse (and Kaveri resurrection may be the only good thing to come out of it), but I don't think we should bother with additional orders.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Austin » 26 Feb 2017 22:23

I see no harm in ordering 200 Rafale , Most to be Made At HAL under Make In India Category similar to MKI program where we can get TOT and Build it with Indian sourced materials and get to manufac Snecma at HAL. End to End Comprehensive deal for Rafale like MKI so that we can maintain and upgrade on our own.

Build another 57 for Naval requirement for New Fighter Program.

Its a wonderful fighter and speaking to pilots at AI they vouch by its capabilities , It would also streamline our logistic for IAF in the next 20-30 years reducing the number of types and weapons employed rather than have a zoo of dozen types in double digits which will make it expensive to maintain in long term. Order more Tejas , Rafale and MKI all built in India and get done with it.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby ashishvikas » 26 Feb 2017 23:13

^^ Rafale will (IF) be manufactured by Reliance not HAL.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Cybaru » 27 Feb 2017 02:13

Austin wrote:I see no harm in ordering 200 Rafale ,


Yes, there is a little matter of cost, which is why its capped at 36. Plus we are paying similar to 5th gen pricing (f35) for 4.5th gen aircraft.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby srai » 27 Feb 2017 02:14

Austin wrote:I see no harm in ordering 200 Rafale , ...


That would bankrupt Indian defense budget. You are easily looking at around $40 billion+ deal for 200 Rafales with ToT and license production. Where will that much money come from for a single item purchase when the needs of the Indian Armed Forces are many? Money for indigenous R&D would dry up among other things.

Main thing to take away from the Dassault comment is they are unwilling to share their technology. The bar is raised so high that it can't be met. They just want to sell their wares produced in France.
Last edited by srai on 27 Feb 2017 02:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Cybaru » 27 Feb 2017 02:23

One way or another, they will lose India as a market in another 15 years. We will continue to produce in future as we will have a large guaranteed internal market ( 5/6 times their guaranteed market size). For them it makes more sense if they become collaborators rather than sellers. I doubt the short term way a lot of vendors are approaching this will allow them to see what needs to happen for long term.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Cosmo_R » 27 Feb 2017 03:46

srai "That would bankrupt Indian defense budget. You are easily looking at around $40 billion+ deal for 200 Rafales with ToT and license production. Where will that much money come from for a single item purchase when the needs of the Indian Armed Forces are many? Money for indigenous R&D would dry up among other things."


+1. Of course, there are those 9 Qatari M2Ks that can fill the gap....:)

GoI/MoD will dilli/dally. It's what they do. The F16 line will close down and then all of a sudden we'll see them as a great deal but the resurrection will cost 3x so we'll look for used F16s after having spent a few years trying to negotiate ToT with LM on the F35, buy 36 off the shelf to avoid embarrassment.

The dilli dalliers did this with M2K, discovered a sudden desire for more C17s after the line closed and are now hunting down spare USAF capability.

As someone said, "when you don't know where you want to go, any road will get you there."


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