VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

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ramana
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by ramana »

And how is this going?
50% offsets: Indian industry to get major boost as French side will invest half of deal value in Make in India products or technology transfer. Indian Partners to be firmed up within a year.
we need to track it here and not in the other thread in order to hold the French to the terms of the deal.

50% of 7.87B Euros in offsets.
Would like the spares under this head.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by srai »

Admiral,

Rafale PBL contract is for 5-years plus 2-years option.

Everything You Wanted To Know About The Rafale Deal But Didn’t Know Where To Ask
...

In MMRCA case, the initial PBL support was to be for five years for one squadron. In 36 Rafale case, the PBL is for five years for two squadrons with an additional contractual commitment for another two years with the base year prices kept intact. In the earlier proposed contract, the computation of PBL performance had considered cannibalisation of components from unserviceable aircraft. The Indian side was able to remove this clause without any additional cost. The PBL Agreement now stipulates that the company will ensures that a minimum 75 per cent of the fleet will always be available for operations. Moreover, Rafale has lesser turnaround time as compared to other fighter available. The Rafale aircraft can do five sorties in a day as compared to other two engine fighter aircraft available which have a sortie generation rate of three per day.

...
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by srai »

ramana wrote:And how is this going?
50% offsets: Indian industry to get major boost as French side will invest half of deal value in Make in India products or technology transfer. Indian Partners to be firmed up within a year.
we need to track it here and not in the other thread in order to hold the French to the terms of the deal.

50% of 7.87B Euros in offsets.
Would like the spares under this head.
India begins manufacturing parts for Rafale fighter jets in Nagpur
...

The first set of doors that cover the twin engines of the fighter jets has come out of the Nagpur facility, which is a joint venture of Anil Ambani’s Reliance Defence and French firm Dassault Aviation.


“We are seeing India has one of the drivers of the Dassault Aviation products. Be it the Falcon business jet or now the Rafale, every product in the future will have an Indian connection,” an official of the French defence major told ThePrint.

Defence sources said the idea is to scale up production of Rafale parts in the coming months.

...
Dassault Aviation eyes Made-in-India Rafale, looks to raise investment in country
...

Sources said Dassault Aviation is working on setting up a third hangar at the Nagpur facility, a joint venture with Anil Ambani’s Reliance Defence.


“The idea is to have five hangars in total. Dassault Aviation already manufacturers and procures [Rafale] engine doors and the [Falcon] canopy from India. The idea is to scale it up with time,” a source said.

...
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by Cyrano »

Dassault building a 50,000 sqm factory at Cergy, north west suburb of Paris

Image Image
Translation:
Dassault Aviation has chosen Cergy-Pontoise to set up its new generation plant. Specializing in the manufacture and assembly of the front sections of the fuselages of its Falcon and Rafale aircraft, the new production site will partly replace the Argenteuil plant currently in operation. Construction will begin at the end of 2020 for delivery at the end of 2021 and an opening scheduled for 2022

By remaining in the Val d'Oise, Dassault Aviation pursues 3 objectives:
- Maintain the technological know-how of its employees today located in Argenteuil, by transferring the site less than 20 km away and in a territory with an aeronautical sector;
- Have a new factory, more modern and more efficient, making it possible to optimize its industrial processes and productivity;
- Develop a showcase for its customers on an accessible and high-quality site.

The cergypontain site, which is located along the A15 motorway, should ensure the production and assembly of the "front sections" of the Rafale and Falcon fuselages. The total area of ​​the economic park planned by the Agglomeration Community during the development of the Plaine des Linandes is 90,000 m2, including 45,000 m2 to be built, which perfectly matches the needs of the industrialist, namely around 41 000 m2 of buildings. Dassault Aviation would thus be the sole occupant of this space and its arrival will ensure the completion of the Linandes development project.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by hemant_sai »

No news of 3 Rafale expected in Jan?
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by Rakesh »

Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 58688?s=20 ---> IAF & French ADA Rafales to carry out SKYROS aerial warfare exercise in Jodhpur in January. Rafales and Su-30MKI of Indian Air Force will participate along with French Rafales. EW assets & AWACs will also join in.
https://twitter.com/Ketulkumar2020/stat ... 56930?s=20 ---> French Air Force (ADA) Rafales arrived in India for Skyros exercises with IAF. From the IAF side, Rafale F3Rs, Su-30 MKI, AWACS & EW assets will participate.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by Rakesh »

Why Indian Air Force wants to rush Rafale Fighters into front line service
https://guardingindia.com/india/why-ind ... e-service/
14 Jan 2021
Indian Air Force (IAF) officials headed last week to France to check on the progress of the second batch of Dassault Rafales jet fighters, which could soon be deployed to guard the country’s northeastern border with China. India, which has ordered thirty-six of the twin-engine, canard delta wing, multirole fighter aircraft, received the first batch on Sept. 10 and immediately deployed those to the Ladakh region.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/SauravChordia1/stat ... 75168?s=20 ---> A commissioned art profile I did of the Dassault Rafale. Though just sharing the main subject.

More pictures here ---> https://www.artstation.com/artwork/8eLg ... -jvIo_wOYI

Image
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by sooraj »

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 89056?s=20 ---> Just In: French media reporting that France's Presidential office is leading a massive diplomatic effort to secure a “package deal” of 5 billion euros for India, that would cover the order of at least 36 additional Rafales, six A330 MRTT, and more than a hundred Panther helicopters.

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 82083?s=20 ---> This report has also been confirmed by 'Air & Cosmos' which is the largest aerospace publication in France.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by sajaym »

As is usual in the case of our military:
sooraj wrote:order of atleast 36 additional Rafales, six A330 MRTT,
Two steps forward, and...
sooraj wrote:and more than a hundred Panther helicopters.
...one step backward.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by hnair »

What is with paper clipping the Panther to the rest ?

India has always provided a good graveyard of very expensive European helicopters, from 1985 Westland deals and 2013 AugustaWestland scams, we have moved on to the Krampov228 and now a 100 order Panther.

Lest we forget:

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by arvin »

^^^
Nice pic of the Dauphin skeleton junk in Juhu aerodrome.
Panther is the military version of Dauphin and any govt touching Panther will run the risk of resurrecting the ghost of Dauphin from its junkyard\graveyard.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by Cain Marko »

sooraj wrote: https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 89056?s=20 ---> Just In: French media reporting that France's Presidential office is leading a massive diplomatic effort to secure a “package deal” of 5 billion euros for India, that would cover the order of at least 36 additional Rafales, six A330 MRTT, and more than a hundred Panther helicopters.

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 82083?s=20 ---> This report has also been confirmed by 'Air & Cosmos' which is the largest aerospace publication in France.
5 billion euro sounds ridiculously cheap for 36 rafale plus tankers and choppers. Hell just rafale at that price is not too bad.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by Rakesh »

Need to find out what exactly is included in that price.

The infrastructure and other support invested at Hasimara and Ambala + the ISE updates, will eliminate the overhead costs. Now it is just the aircraft, spares + weapons. Five billion Euros is still a tiny amount, especially when the leased A330s and 100+ Panthers are included in that price.

Dassault has a clear advantage in MRFA or MRCA 2.0 or whatever other acronym the IAF chooses to call it.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by Vips »

arvin wrote:^^^
Nice pic of the Dauphin skeleton junk in Juhu aerodrome.
Panther is the military version of Dauphin and any govt touching Panther will run the risk of resurrecting the ghost of Dauphin from its junkyard\graveyard.
These ere not Dauphin, they are the Westland-30 which were based on the Westland Lynx military helicopter.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by kit »

Cain Marko wrote:
sooraj wrote: https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 89056?s=20 ---> Just In: French media reporting that France's Presidential office is leading a massive diplomatic effort to secure a “package deal” of 5 billion euros for India, that would cover the order of at least 36 additional Rafales, six A330 MRTT, and more than a hundred Panther helicopters.
https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 82083?s=20 ---> This report has also been confirmed by 'Air & Cosmos' which is the largest aerospace publication in France.
5 billion euro sounds ridiculously cheap for 36 rafale plus tankers and choppers. Hell just rafale at that price is not too bad.
I would take it all for 5 billion euros if Safran builds that fighter jet engine plant in India :mrgreen: Honestly i dont believe that calculation looks like they missed out a zero after 5 :rotfl:
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by ramana »

maitya or kit, Do me a favor.

Can you put together a table of the M-88 engine for M2K and Rafale?
Weight, diameter, length, thrust: dry and wet.

And the GE F414 for comaprison.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by kit »

F414-GE-400; F414G, F414-INS6 English SI
Thrust class 22,000 lb 98 kN
Length 154 in 391 cm
Airflow 170 lb/sec 77.1 kg/sec
Maximum diameter 35 in 89 cm
Inlet diameter 31 in 79 cm
Pressure ratio 30:1 30:1
Thrust-to-weight class 9:1 9:1



M88 engine
Technical characteristics
Thrust with afterburner (lbf) 16,860
Dry thrust (lbf) 11,240
Specific fuel consumption with afterburner [(lb/lbf.h)] 1.66
Specific fuel consumption without afterburner [(lb/lbf.h)] 0.78
Airflow rate (lb/s) 143.30
Turbine entry temperature (K) 1,850 (2,870.6°F)
Pressure ratio 24.50
Bypass ratio 0.30
Length (in) 139.29
Inlet diameter (in) 27.40
Weight (lbs) 1,977.55


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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by ramana »

Thanks
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by fanne »

Specifications (F414-400)
Data from GE Aviation,[32] Deagal.com,[33] and MTU Aero Engines[34]

General characteristics
Type: Afterburning turbofan
Length: 154 in (391 cm)
Diameter: 35 in (89 cm)
Dry weight: 2,445 lb (1,110 kg) max weight
Components
Compressor: axial compressor with 3 fan and 7 compressor stages
Combustors: annular
Turbine: 1 low-pressure and 1 high-pressure stage
Performance
Maximum thrust:
13,000 lbf (57.8 kN) military thrust
22,000 lbf (97.9 kN) with afterburner
Overall pressure ratio: 30:1
Bypass ratio: 0.25:1
Air mass flow: 170 lb/s (77.1 kg/s)
Thrust-to-weight ratio: 9

Specifications (M88-2)
Data from Safran Aircraft Engines[12]

General characteristics
Type: Afterburning turbofan
Length: 353.8 cm (139.3 in)
Diameter: 69.6 cm (27.4 in)
Dry weight: 897 kg (1,978 lb)
Components
Compressor: Axial, 3-stage LP, 6-stage HP
Combustors: Annular
Turbine: 1-stage LP, 1-stage HP
Performance
Maximum thrust: 50 kN (11,200 lbf) and 75 kN (16,900 lbf) (with afterburner)
Overall pressure ratio: 24.5:1
Bypass ratio: 0.3:1
Air mass flow: 65 kg/s (143 lb/s)
Turbine inlet temperature: 1,850 K (1,580 °C)
Fuel consumption: 3,977 kg/h (8,770 lb/h) and 12,695 kg/h (27,990 lb/h) (with afterburner)
Specific fuel consumption: 22.14 g/(kN⋅s) (0.782 lb/(lbf⋅h)) and 47.11 g/(kN⋅s) (1.663 lb/(lbf⋅h)) (with afterburner)
Thrust-to-weight ratio: 5.68:1 (dry) and 8.52:1 (with afterburner)


All data from Wiki. M88 is a small engine compared to F414. How small (depending on what parameter you pick - thrust, weight, dimensions, airflow etc) - roughly 15%-20% smaller than F414. M-88 compared to the current Mirage 2000 engine will be almost a generation ahead but still small. It is 30% less. The biggest drawback is that M-88 cannot replace either M2K or Mig29 engines...it is small and the air mass flow (that is dictated by the engine intake) is different.
However, the core can be adopted (with full ToT) and we can use that to make specific engines as per our requirement (which to my limited knowledge means effort is equal to new engine development....the only guarantee is risk around the technology is minimized.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by kit »

Not sure about this but someone had mentioned uprating the M88 is pretty limited by its design., not much growth potential ?
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by arvin »

Vips wrote:
arvin wrote:^^^
Nice pic of the Dauphin skeleton junk in Juhu aerodrome.
Panther is the military version of Dauphin and any govt touching Panther will run the risk of resurrecting the ghost of Dauphin from its junkyard\graveyard.
These ere not Dauphin, they are the Westland-30 which were based on the Westland Lynx military helicopter.
Thanks for the correction. These are Westland 30 not dauphine.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by Prasad »

Qatar's follow-on deal for 36 more Rafale aircraft cost $1.3bn in 2018. Follow on orders are a lot cheaper. If we go the g2g way for the 6 MRTTs (after failing to buy them despite 3-4 procurement process rounds), that will good. Those were around $3bn-ish. So definitely not "cheap". Sounds like Aadi month "sales" prices.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by Aditya_V »

Prasad wrote:Qatar's follow-on deal for 36 more Rafale aircraft cost $1.3bn in 2018. Follow on orders are a lot cheaper. If we go the g2g way for the 6 MRTTs (after failing to buy them despite 3-4 procurement process rounds), that will good. Those were around $3bn-ish. So definitely not "cheap". Sounds like Aadi month "sales" prices.
I am sorry is this some inventive history by RG, Qatar ordered 24 Rafales for Euro 6.3 billion and then 12 Rafales only as add on in fly away condition for Euro 1.3 billion, much of thier Rafale fleet weapons Meteor are of Euro 8 Billion order for 24 Euro fighters also ordered by Qatar plus 12 billion for 26 F15's. These deals are not comparable as it was considered as protection money from UAE + Saudi whom they had disputes with.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by Kartik »

Prasad wrote:Qatar's follow-on deal for 36 more Rafale aircraft cost $1.3bn in 2018. Follow on orders are a lot cheaper. If we go the g2g way for the 6 MRTTs (after failing to buy them despite 3-4 procurement process rounds), that will good. Those were around $3bn-ish. So definitely not "cheap". Sounds like Aadi month "sales" prices.
Wrong. Qatar originally bought 24 Rafales for $6.92 billion and included a clause for 12 more at the same price.

They exercised those 12 options for $1.3 billion
and added an options clause for 36 more as well for a possible total of 72 in the future.

Link
PARIS — Qatar’s decision to buy 12 more Rafale fighter jets as part of an existing contractual option with Dassault Aviation has officially come under effect, the company said.

This phase in the acquisition process indicates the Gulf state has paid its down payment, allowing Dassault to record the deal in its 2018 order book.

“The exercise of the option for the purchase of 12 additional Rafale fighters for Qatar comes into effect today,” Dassault said in statement March 27.

Qatar said Dec. 7 it took up the option, which was in a May 4, 2015, contract with Dassault for an initial order for 24 Rafale jets. This order will bring Qatar’s total of Rafales to 36. The 2015 deal was worth €6.3 billion (U.S. $7.8 billion) and included missiles, training pilots and some 100 mechanics.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by Prasad »

My fault. Got the numbers mixed up.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by Rakesh »

France just upped the game.
sooraj wrote: https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 89056?s=20 ---> Just In: French media reporting that France's Presidential office is leading a massive diplomatic effort to secure a “package deal” of 5 billion euros for India, that would cover the order of at least 36 additional Rafales, six A330 MRTT, and more than a hundred Panther helicopters.

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 82083?s=20 ---> This report has also been confirmed by 'Air & Cosmos' which is the largest aerospace publication in France.
https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 11588?s=20 ---> Update: Top French aviation site is reporting that the 36 new Rafale fighter jets offered to India will be of the latest 'F4' standard. Previous 36 belonged to the 'F3R' standard.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by Zynda »

I think the contract for current 36 includes provision to be upgraded to F4 standard...In any case, additional 36 (if not more) Rafales acquisition is something that I support. Rafales may play a crucial role in negating or mitigating J-20/J-31 factor until AMCA is ready. Am not sure if we will go for any Su-57 in its current form. Perhaps 10 years from now, when the platform is more mature and is in service with RuAF, we may...by then, we also will have a much clearer picture on AMcA development and possible induction time frames.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by Cybaru »

54 Raffies make sense. Can fully utilize the ground-based assets that are invested in.
Dauphin is waste of time.
New A330 MRTT is a waste as well. we won't even use 30% of the life of the platform in 30-40 years. Best to buy used A330 and convert them if needed at 40% price.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by AkshaySG »

Any chance that 36 can become 54 with 18 in the M configuration ? ... Would allow us to do away with both MRCA and MRCBF in one go

I doubt the 29-k can last the 12-15 odd years the TEDBF will take to ready while ordering another variety(SH) seems foolish when we've already invested so much in Rafale , Navy's birds can also be transferred North if needed without many complications
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by Cain Marko »

If these numbers are true, and the legal team okays it, tell me where to sign. I'm ready. Although they'd have to nix the panthers and reduce the price.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by LakshmanPST »

AkshaySG wrote:Any chance that 36 can become 54 with 18 in the M configuration ? ... Would allow us to do away with both MRCA and MRCBF in one go

I doubt the 29-k can last the 12-15 odd years the TEDBF will take to ready while ordering another variety(SH) seems foolish when we've already invested so much in Rafale , Navy's birds can also be transferred North if needed without many complications
Rafale-M won't fit on Vikramaditya and Vikrant's lifts... So, no chance of it happening...
SH may fit in Vikrant's lifts, but then it will be too costly...

Best option for Navy is to manage with current MIG29Ks, or order few NLCAs or additional MIGs in the interim...
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by Aditya_V »

Ultimately we will order 18+18 Rafales at our own glacial pace.

Logically,
First the Tejas Mk-1A contract will be signed in Feb-21

Then with current production 272 Su-30 ending 31 Mar 21 with delivery of the last 4 SU-30, this contract will be signed for HAl to deliver the next 12 Su-30 in 2021-22 while the upgrade for SU-30MKI fleet is happening.

Next the 21 Mig-29's for the Air Force.

These are the deals which will happen during the next few months, any other acquisition deal will start only after the end of FY21-22.

I suspect a deal to deliver 18 Rafale in May-22 and another 18 in May-25.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by sajaym »

...And true to the Firang nature, they gently try to squeeze in another firangi mem...
The Indian and French air forces will conduct bilateral Exercise Desert Knight-21 at Air Force Station Jodhpur from 20th to 24th Jan 21 .

The bilateral air combat exercise involving the Indian Air Force (IAF) and the French Air and Space Force (Armée de l’Air et de l’Espace) be unique as, for the first time ever, both sides will participate with Rafale aircraft.

An Indian ministry of defence statement said on Tuesday: “The French side will participate with Rafale, Airbus A-330 Multi-Role Tanker Transport (MRTT), A-400M Tactical Transport aircraft and approximately 175 personnel.”
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by Kartik »

Cybaru wrote:54 Raffies make sense. Can fully utilize the ground-based assets that are invested in.
Dauphin is waste of time.
New A330 MRTT is a waste as well. we won't even use 30% of the life of the platform in 30-40 years. Best to buy used A330 and convert them if needed at 40% price.
Buying used A330s, getting them structurally modified to MRTT standards at Airbus or wherever, will take ages. Buying used A330 MRTTs, that too those with just 5-6 years on their airframes is the best possible solution. Cheaper and hardly used, given how many hours and landing cycles the airframe and landing gear can withstand.

From the avionslegendaires.com website
The numbers give the spin. Negotiated for several years now, the contract that the French and Indians would be preparing to sign would be phenomenal since we are talking about thirty-six Dassault Aviation Rafale F4 omnirole fighters and six Airbus DS A330MRTT multi-role refuellers . So far nothing huge but if we add a hundred multi-role helicopters Airbus Helicopters AS.565 MBe Panther we then enter another dimension . And it is therefore the Indian Air Force and the Indian Navy which would then strengthen their capacities at a time when India is frequently at grips with its powerful Chinese neighbor.

In fact, for anyone who is at all interested in India and the development of its defense forces, this future giant contract with France is hardly surprising. Rather, it is its volume that leaves you speechless. Today, apart from the Indians, no one has such means of acquisition abroad, not even the Americans!
The excellent diplomatic relations between Narendra Modi on one side and François Hollande then Emmanuel Macron on the other are not unrelated to this upcoming contract.

Thirty-six Dassault Aviation Rafale F4 fighter jets for the Indian Air Force is ultimately quite logical, especially as the two parties have negotiated that the contract is partly part of the " Make-in India ". There will therefore be a logical transfer of technology to Hindustan Aircraft Limited. Fighters who could then allow the slow but constant modernization of Indian aviation to continue. A few days ago, India ordered a little more than 80 indigenous Tejas fighters, these thirty-six Rafale F4s would thus complete the loop by ending the old Mikoyan-Gurevitch MiG-21 Fishbed and MiG-29 Fulcrum acquired over time. of the USSR.

Still at the level of the Indian Air Force, it must be seen that more than ever Paris is preparing to add six Airbus DS A330MRTT to the contract. The bestseller of the European aviation industry would allow Indian aviation to gain flexibility. It must be said that its six current Ilyushin Il-78MKi Midas of Russian invoice are struggling to cover all the Indian territory, and in particular to reinforce the hunt engaged in the border clashes with China.
Airbus DS jets would not replace them but rather lighten their workload. What will happen next if a new order from Europeans is made, there is no risk of not playing in favor of these four-reactors currently in staffing.

These two contracts have actually been under negotiation for quite a short time, roughly between late 2019 and mid-2020. They have fallen behind due to the impact in India of the health crisis of the Covid19 coronavirus. However, since 2016, that is to say then under the François Hollande era, France and India have been working jointly on another contract, more discreet but just as huge: a hundred AS.565 MBe Panther . The latest helicopter of the Dauphin family, brought up to date could be acquired between 110 and 130 units with transfer of an assembly line in India.
Airbus Helicopters would then score a big point against its competitors and allow the Indian Navy to discard its old Kamov Ka-27 Helix machines.and HAL Chetak while obtaining one of the best helicopters on the market.

Five billion euros is the price negotiated between French and Indian diplomats. At such a cost the contract will necessarily be signed directly between Modi and Macron, it cannot be otherwise! Even if the bad tongues and eternal moaners will denounce the transfers of technology and assembly lines, it is a very very beautiful contract which should be signed within a few weeks. We will then have ample opportunity to come back to it.
Not sure if the Panthers are as attractive as the other two, but that could possibly be key to the package. Take it out and the French may not go for the package as is. The French will get the most out of that line while lowering their profits on the Rafale and A330 MRTT. Remember, life cycle contracts for maintenance of those A330 MRTTs will be lucrative enough for Airbus as well as for Dassault.

The way I see it, it's a win win. 72 Rafales would give the IAF a lot of breathing room, allowing for minor delays on the Tejas Mk2 and AMCA programs.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by Rakesh »

hemant_sai wrote:No news of 3 Rafale expected in Jan?
https://twitter.com/MeghUpdates/status/ ... 62786?s=20 ---> Three more Rafales arriving from France. Will be refueled mid-air by UAEAF (United Arab Emirates Air Force) Airbus Multi-Role Transport Tanker.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by Indranil »

Kartik wrote:
Prasad wrote:Qatar's follow-on deal for 36 more Rafale aircraft cost $1.3bn in 2018. Follow on orders are a lot cheaper. If we go the g2g way for the 6 MRTTs (after failing to buy them despite 3-4 procurement process rounds), that will good. Those were around $3bn-ish. So definitely not "cheap". Sounds like Aadi month "sales" prices.
Wrong. Qatar originally bought 24 Rafales for $6.92 billion and included a clause for 12 more at the same price.

They exercised those 12 options for $1.3 billion
and added an options clause for 36 more as well for a possible total of 72 in the future.
Thank you Kartik. $110 million per plane is a great price.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by Rakesh »

Air Force Of Arab Nation UAE, to do mid-air refueling of India's three new Rafale jets flying from France
https://swarajyamag.com/insta/air-force ... rom-france
21 Jan 2021
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by Rakesh »

No 17 Golden Arrows Squadron to reach full strength by mid April 2021. First deliveries to India occurred in July 2020. Around 8.5 months for the squadron to reach full strength.

@ LakshmanPST: Add one to your list ;)

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 75844?s=20 ---> First IAF Rafale squadron to reach full operational strength in exactly 3 months from now (with 18 aircraft in squadron strength).
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Post by LakshmanPST »

Already added... Waiting for the 2nd one... :D
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