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VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby rohitvats » 29 Mar 2017 00:51

^^^It was a honest question. :mrgreen:

And you've answered it perfectly. For life of me, I was not able to figure out what those addition target symbols meant when only two F-15 were shown as bogeys. Now I know, thanks to you. And what sensor fusion does in such scenarios

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby AdityaM » 15 May 2017 14:03

Dassault Aviation CEO says in talks with India over a second contract
“We’re notably in talks with Malaysia over 18 aircraft, but also with India over a second contract,” the plane-maker’s CEO said. “India’s needs are enormous. Hence, for its navy, 57 aircraft are considered,”

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Karan M » 15 May 2017 14:07

If IN gets more Rafale than AF, truly ironic. Wonder what happens to its MiG-29s then? Junked like the Pawan Hans Westlands?

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Karthik S » 15 May 2017 14:09

Transferred to IAF more likely.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Chinmay » 15 May 2017 15:43

Karthik S wrote:Transferred to IAF more likely.


Unlikely. VikAd will continue to deploy Migs while Vikrant could possibly have the Rafales.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby tsarkar » 15 May 2017 17:39

Karan M wrote:If IN gets more Rafale than AF, truly ironic. Wonder what happens to its MiG-29s then? Junked like the Pawan Hans Westlands?

Naval fighters have higher attrition and lower TTL due to slamming on deck at full power while landing

https://www.indiannavy.nic.in/sites/def ... 7Apr16.pdf
VIKRANT commissioned in March 1961. After an intensive six week work up in Malta, she arrived in India in November 1961 with two air squadrons embarked:
(a) INAS 300, the first operational squadron of the Navy comprising Seahawk `Fighters Ground Attack' (FGA). The first flight of Seahawks had been constituted in end 1959 and the squadron had commissioned in Britain on 7 July 1960. The Seahawk was a well proven jet aircraft, having been in operation with the British Navy since 1953 and also in the German and Netherland Navies. A total of 74 Seahawks were eventually acquired, 46 from Britain between 1960 and 1964 and 28 from Germany in 1966.


Just for one aircraft carrier

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby brar_w » 15 May 2017 17:40

Karan M wrote:If IN gets more Rafale than AF, truly ironic. Wonder what happens to its MiG-29s then? Junked like the Pawan Hans Westlands?


There was an idea floated here to swap those MiG-29Ks for MiG-29 PS's.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby sankum » 15 May 2017 20:00

Rafale cant go on INS Vikrant unless lifts are broadened to 12m from present 10m because Rafales wings cant be folded.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Prem » 17 May 2017 09:39

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/612 ... ghter.html
Ambala, Hashimara to be home for Rafale fighter jets

The Indian Air Force has finalised Ambala on the western front and Hashimara on the east as the two bases to house two squadrons of new Rafale fighter jets that would be arriving from France from 2019 onwards. While the force chose Hashimara in West Bengal a long time ago, it recently selected Ambala in Haryana, sources told DH.One of the oldest and largest airbases that the IAF inherited from the Royal Air Force, Ambala is home to the British-origin Jaguars and Russian MiG-21s that are being phased out. The IAF zeroed in on theHarnayastation after it ran into land acquisition issues with Sarsawa in Uttar Pradesh, its first choice. Establishing the Rafale base in Sarsawa would have required an additional 540 acres of land, which meant protracted negotiations with farmers.The IAF looked for alternatives and selected Ambala after reviewing a few other stations. On the other hand, Hashimara was the first choice for the eastern sector as the lone MiG-27 squadron in the north Bengal base is due to retire in 2018.
A team from Dassault Aviation had visited the base to review the maintenance and the infrastructure required to be set up. It was one of the eastern airbases that was spruced up up during the 11thFive YearPlan.The jets would come with Meteor beyond-visual-range missile. Sources said the defence ministry and the IAF were trying to expedite the delivery schedule by a few months so that the first Rafale jet arrives in the first half of 2019.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby srai » 17 May 2017 10:11

^^^

IMO, the IAF should focus their energies on getting two more Rafale squadrons instead of wasting it on the "foreign single-engine MII fighter". Otherwise, this will end-up as another Mirage-2000 saga.

Sign very long-term lifecycle support with the OEM. Get as many servicing capabilities and spare parts production for engines and airframes in India as possible. OEM should setup shop in India. Purchase the ability to customize through integration with Indian sensors, computers, avionics, and bombs/PGMs.

Original requirement was for 6 squadrons of MMRCA. With 4 Rafale squadrons (2 on order + 2 future), add 2 second-hand Mirage-2000 squadrons and upgrade them to the Indian MLU standards. Standardize on weapons package for both. That should fulfill the original requirement quantities.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Austin » 22 Jun 2017 11:06

Rafale New Standard to Enhance Capabilities
The Direction Générale de l’Armement (DGA), France's military procurement agency, has launched the first studies to develop the new F4 standard for the Dassault Rafale fighter.

The standard, which the DGA is scheduled to qualify by 2024, follows up on the most recent standard for the Rafale, the F3R. The research will run until the end of 2017, according to the deputy director of the Rafale program at the DGA.

The new standard has four pillars. First is the integration of the new Thales software radio, Contact, which is already in service in the French army. This system is more secure and offers an improved data link. “It will also integrate civil and military satellite capacity, notably with the military satellite Syracuse IV,” added the deputy director.

Secondly, DGA is seeking to improve the capabilities of the sensors used on Rafale; The RB2E radar will be able to detect on-ground mobile targets; the infrared optronic system will be improved; as will the Spectra protection and counter-measure system. This sensor will have extended functionality on low and high frequencies to detect future threats. DGA also wants to equip pilots with a helmet-mounted visual system.

Thirdly, new weapons are also part of the new criteria. The Dassault fighter will need to integrate a mid-life renewed Scalp cruise missile, as well as a new version of the AASM air-to-ground weapon, the AASM Evolution. These weapons will be able to deliver from 500 kg to one metric ton, versus 250 kg now.

The new standard integrates the Mica NG air-to-air missile, which offers longer range and better detection and acquisition capacity. These improvements will go to address one of the key weaknesses of the standard F3R, integrating with the Meteor long-range air-to-air missile.

The fourth pillar is to introduce predictive MRO to increase the Rafale's dispatch reliability.

“Rafale has been designed to receive those incremental standards,” said the deputy director. “The F3R standard is to be qualified by the DGA by the end of 2018, on time and on budget,” he added.


Apart from the Meteor’s integration, the new standard will include the new Talios multi-function targeting pod, designed by Thales.


Both DGA and Dassault intend to use all these developments on future export versions of the Rafale. The aircraft sold to Qatar, Egypt and India are currently set to be equipped with the F3R standard, however.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby SajeevJino » 22 Jun 2017 12:32

well...history going to be repeat maybe

Image

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Chinmay » 22 Jun 2017 13:21

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/877788115041169408

India Rafale deal to bring in over a billion in direct offsets. Areas: turbofan tech, sensors, airborne electronics, stealth drone tech etc

As part of offsets, @Dassault_OnAir looking for way to feed nEUROn tech into India's Ghatak stealth UCAV effort.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Austin » 22 Jun 2017 15:13

SajeevJino wrote:well...history going to be repeat maybe

Image


If we dont learn from M2K fiasco then certainly history will repeat ... If they build 90's odd Rafale in India under Lic , then they can have a rock solid fleet of 140 Rafale something they envisaged in 80's to build 150 M2K in India under lic.

IIRC IG at that time came under attack from IMF for buying an expensive fighter when forex was not more that $1-2 billion and french would just accept hard cash

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Zynda » 22 Jun 2017 17:53

From Keypubs forum...infographic on possible Rafale F4 std. specs

Image

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Austin » 22 Jun 2017 20:25

^^ Nice , Hope this gets into IAF Rafale over period of time ......What was the standard IAF ordered is that Rafale F3R ?

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Zynda » 22 Jun 2017 21:12

Should be F3R Austin saar...since Meteor is included in our weapons package.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby brar_w » 22 Jun 2017 21:22

The Indian Rafale seems to be a mix and match and not French standard. The IAF does not seem to have gone in for the Talios for example. It will likely most closely resemble the F3R standard. Regardless, the F4 standard is still not firmed up and is not fully developed. Its a mid 2020s configuration barring delays.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Austin » 24 Jun 2017 14:35

Paris Air Show - Rafale Multi-Role Fighter Full Aerial Flight 2017 [1080p]


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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby SaiK » 03 Jul 2017 11:36

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/07/14696.html
10 Reasons Why The Indian Rafale Is Evolution Itself

by *roor

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby SajeevJino » 03 Jul 2017 14:05

SaiK wrote:https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/07/14696.html
10 Reasons Why The Indian Rafale Is Evolution Itself

by *roor


Hasimra AFB seems really very bad in shape, they going to pour massive amount of $ to modernise the base alone, It's better if the erect one more 2500m runway,

the lone runway has only two QRA shelter, even its not hardened but just like tents, They have to build new Shelters and apron to make the air base for full swing operation

well Ambala seems quite awesome, with having two runway four QRA Shelter and multiple hardened Shelters, No idea they were new or not

Shiv also said The Guwalier also going to be mordenised ....

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 17 Jul 2017 19:22

RAFALE IN ANGER: 10 Dispatches From A War Cockpit
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/07 ... ckpit.html

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Cain Marko » 17 Jul 2017 19:56

^it's amazing how angry and powerful the rafale is when conjunct with the mighty assets of NATO and especially when fighting degraded Ads such as Libya or Syria. And they Tom Tom this as an adult mission :roll: . Would love be to see how well it could handle airspace that is monitored by flankers and s400 types...

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby srai » 17 Jul 2017 20:09

Rakesh wrote:RAFALE IN ANGER: 10 Dispatches From A War Cockpit
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/07 ... ckpit.html

...
For instance, while missions over Libya were no more than 2.5 hours, combat sorties over Iraq and Syria currently average 6.5 hours with three mid air tank-ups. Rafales currently have a 600 nautical miles unrefuelled range from the aircraft carrier. Crews maintaining the jets on the carrier told Livefist that the two squadrons at sea enjoy a 97% availability rate (as opposed to 70% rate on shore).
...

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 17 Jul 2017 20:11

srai: please watch the discussion on that topic in the Indian Navy thread...

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 20 Jul 2017 07:32

Impressed with swing role capability of Rafale fighter jet: Air Chief BS Dhanoa
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... MqFfL.html

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby tsarkar » 20 Jul 2017 12:53

SajeevJino wrote: Image


Will someone reply to Shiv that the additional Mirage 2000 considered late 80s, mid 90s, post Kargil, would have left no money for anything else, and the French killed the market by 1. High Price and 2. Lack of ToT.

His beloved IAF officer should realize that better than crying like a child for the most expensive toy that his parents cannot afford.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby srai » 20 Jul 2017 13:56

^^^
Unfortunately lessons weren't learnt when Rafale was selected in the 2010s ... at the end, there was money only for 36 (not the 126 + 63 options).

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Manish_P » 20 Jul 2017 17:28

tsarkar wrote: His beloved IAF officer should realize that better than crying like a child for the most expensive toy that his parents cannot afford.


Tsarkar sir, this above statement does not suit you.

The IAF officer is not crying for the toy for himself but to defend the land of his parents and ancestors.

Perhaps the country might have had the money, if not for the breed of corrupt politicians, the tax defaulters and other vested interests...

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby SajeevJino » 23 Jul 2017 13:01

tsarkar wrote:
Will someone reply to Shiv that the additional Mirage 2000 considered late 80s, mid 90s, post Kargil, would have left no money for anything else, and the French killed the market by 1. High Price and 2. Lack of ToT.

His beloved IAF officer should realize that better than crying like a child for the most expensive toy that his parents cannot afford.


well, BRF discussed way back how babus and senior officers went for MiG 29 rather than going for additional Mirages which was pitched by IAF

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Cain Marko » 25 Jul 2017 02:03

tsarkar wrote:Will someone reply to Shiv that the additional Mirage 2000 considered late 80s, mid 90s, post Kargil, would have left no money for anything else, and the French killed the market by 1. High Price and 2. Lack of ToT.

His beloved IAF officer should realize that better than crying like a child for the most expensive toy that his parents cannot afford.


One good thing that came out of this was the exceptional fighter called su30 mki. Far more potent than the mirage.

srai wrote:^^^
Unfortunately lessons weren't learnt when Rafale was selected in the 2010s ... at the end, there was money only for 36 (not the 126 + 63 options).

One good thing that may come out of this is the exceptional super mki or fgfa.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 25 Jul 2017 03:53

As tension heightens on China border, IAF seeks to hasten Rafale jet delivery
https://sputniknews.com/asia/2017071710 ... ia-refale/

"IAF is eagerly awaiting the Rafale. The Air Chief is likely assessing the possibility of hastening the aircraft supplies and quicker setting of technical infrastructure." Air Marshal Anil Chopra (retired) told Sputnik.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby JayS » 25 Jul 2017 16:15

Rakesh wrote:As tension heightens on China border, IAF seeks to hasten Rafale jet delivery
https://sputniknews.com/asia/2017071710 ... ia-refale/

"IAF is eagerly awaiting the Rafale. The Air Chief is likely assessing the possibility of hastening the aircraft supplies and quicker setting of technical infrastructure." Air Marshal Anil Chopra (retired) told Sputnik.


The two things are not linked. But DDM will show it like that nonetheless. Even if we have a war in next 2-3 years the Rafales will be only cheerleaders for that. IAF has been trying to hasten the delivery even before this border issue popped up, IIRC.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 05 Aug 2017 00:02

No Early Delivery of Rafale Jets for India
https://sputniknews.com/military/201708 ... veries-no/

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Austin » 15 Aug 2017 18:18

Dassault Rafale vs Eurofighter Typhoon


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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 17 Aug 2017 20:58

Click on the link below, let the gif animation load and see the irony :rotfl:

http://rafale.co.in/

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 23 Aug 2017 04:09

IAF to get another 36 Rafale combat aircraft
http://theindiasaga.com/defence-securit ... t-aircraft

Speculation article. Nothing confirmed yet. However, this is an interesting point...

Significantly, if the deal is only for 36 more aircraft, then the field would be open for a larger number of twin-engine aircraft for both the IAF and Navy. If the coming deal is for indigenous production for more than 36, then Rafale would become the final choice.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Karthik S » 23 Aug 2017 09:44

If not indigenous, order should be big enough that we can ask France to start a new line, present delivery timelines are not helpful given the standoffs.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 23 Aug 2017 10:12

ANy more Rafale then its needs to be produced in India with TOT, 57 Navy plus 36 Airforce, HAL is anyway going to have surplus facilities soon. Similarlry for 234 Naval Helicopters with common Engine with ALH, LUH etc manufactured in India.

Aircraft Safran-Kaveri forr Raflae/LCA MKII and AMCA.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Karthik S » 23 Aug 2017 10:16

Priority is building up depleted squadrons ASAP, MII comes later. Any talk of HAL production will again start a saga that will take half a decade.


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