VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Austin » 13 Jan 2019 00:02

Rafale Deal: Comprehensive data analysis of the cost proves that India has got a far better deal compared to 2007- Rohit Vats

With narrow political interests guiding the discourse on the subject, by both political parties and many ‘analysts’, the true picture has got lost. And deliberate misinformation is being peddled.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 13 Jan 2019 00:16

French Navy Chief to visit India amid Rafale row
https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 852_1.html

Amid an ongoing controversy on the Rafale deal, French Navy Chief Vice Admiral Christophe Prazuck would be in India on a three-day visit to discuss ways to further strengthen military ties between the two countries. The visit, scheduled from January 7th to January 9th, is taking place when the Indian Navy is looking forward to buying 57 multirole fighter planes for operations from the aircraft carrier, while Rafale being one of the contenders along with Boeing of America and Saab Gripen of Sweden. "Vice Admiral Christophe Prazuck, Chief of the Naval Staff, French Navy would be in India and hold meetings with his naval counterpart Indian Navy chief Admiral Sunil Lanba," Indian Navy officials said. The French Navy operates the Rafale plane from its aircraft carrier. They had used them for conducting airstrikes in Afghanistan, Libya and other conflict zones. The French government has asked India to acquire additional Rafale combat aircraft for both the Indian Air Force and the Indian Navy along with the 36 planes that will start arriving in the country by the year 2020.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rahul M » 13 Jan 2019 12:59

Austin wrote:Rafale Deal: Comprehensive data analysis of the cost proves that India has got a far better deal compared to 2007- Rohit Vats

With narrow political interests guiding the discourse on the subject, by both political parties and many ‘analysts’, the true picture has got lost. And deliberate misinformation is being peddled.

excellent analysis by rohit, as usual.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Philip » 13 Jan 2019 22:05

Time is too short for any decision before the elections, esp. with the anti- Raffy lobby. The moot point though is the priorities of the IN.MCM vessels are zilch, inviting the simplest of assymetric warfare tactics by our endmies- mining our ports and bases, and our sub fleet requires urgent additions not to mention the 120+ ASW helos ..We've taken so long to build IAC-1 (13 yrs) that even if started tomorrow, 65K t IAC-2 would arrive only after 2030! By then far superior naval stealth birds from both east and west along with UCAVs would bd operational.Ultra- expensive Rafale- Ms woild be obsolete.

The 47 or so 29Ks are enough to field on thd two carriers VikA and Vikrant-2 for now.We're told that due to lift sizes the Raffy can't operate from them.BMos equipped Super Sukhois would be far more useful if based on land than Rafales , if that is the intention.Acquiring a few more for reserves easy esp. as the IN/ CNS are reporting smooth opserations now of 29Ks.Acquiring at least 8 Backfires would be far deadlier than a sqd. of Rafales.The new upgraded Backfires now being delivered to Ru will enable us to take thd fight to the enemy in his own backyard the Indo- China Sea.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 15 Jan 2019 00:43

X-Post from the International Aerospace Discussion thread.

France orders upgraded Rafale warplanes for $2.3 billion
https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... alflow+DFN

^^^^ 28 Rafale F4 (not full functionality though) variants being delivered for $2.3 billion. These are new build aircraft and not software/hardware updates on existing aircraft. These 28 new build Rafales work out to $82+ million per aircraft. Another 30 aircraft will be ordered in 2023 and will be at full functionality in the F4 standard. Full functionality will obviously be more expensive.

But the point to note is this. Infrastructure already exists and there is no need for additional expenditures to operate these birds. It is for this reason, that a follow on order for the Rafale will be significantly cheaper for India. However please note that the price that Dassault sells Rafales to the French Air Force will not be the same as they sell to other nations. But still, it will be cheaper.

#MoreRafalesforIAF :)

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Zynda » 15 Jan 2019 01:19

Well this livefist article is old, but it does state that current IAF rafales will be upgraded to F4 std as it when "arrives"...probably already included in the contractual agreement to upgrade 36 Rafales from F3R to F4.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/07/14696.html

The improvements under the proposed F4 standard, for instance, which was announced in March and is currently under discussion, will transfer to the IAF’s fleet when ready. Sources told Livefist that the F4 standard will focus not just on tweaks based on the Rafale’s combat experience in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan, but also the first full effort to shorten and further simplify the time required to churn out a full-ops Rafale pilot. The IAF will be able to draw on any and all improvements made to the Rafale system.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 16 Jan 2019 04:36

CAG refuses to share Rafale audit; cites breach of Parliament
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 4ii0L.html

Last month, the Supreme Court had dismissed pleas challenging the deal between India and France for procurement of 36 Rafale jets, saying there was no occasion to “really doubt the decision making process” warranting setting aside of the contract.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Kartik » 16 Jan 2019 17:34

Rakesh wrote:X-Post from the International Aerospace Discussion thread.

France orders upgraded Rafale warplanes for $2.3 billion
https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... alflow+DFN

^^^^ 28 Rafale F4 (not full functionality though) variants being delivered for $2.3 billion. These are new build aircraft and not software/hardware updates on existing aircraft. These 28 new build Rafales work out to $82+ million per aircraft. Another 30 aircraft will be ordered in 2023 and will be at full functionality in the F4 standard. Full functionality will obviously be more expensive.

But the point to note is this. Infrastructure already exists and there is no need for additional expenditures to operate these birds. It is for this reason, that a follow on order for the Rafale will be significantly cheaper for India. However please note that the price that Dassault sells Rafales to the French Air Force will not be the same as they sell to other nations. But still, it will be cheaper.

#MoreRafalesforIAF :)


Wrong!!

France is paying $2.3 billion just to fund development of the Rafale F4 variant

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 16 Jan 2019 18:22

Already posted in the International Aerospace Thread :)

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Philip » 18 Jan 2019 07:59

Hindu today, front page report by N.Ram alleges that the decision to buy 36 Raffys increased the unit cost by 41%.
Inside pages give alleged facts, etc.Someone kindly post thd link/ relevant key points.Don't shoot the towncrier! :mrgreen:

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 18 Jan 2019 14:51

^^dfi yusuf posted the article and mentioned that one interesting point in the new deal was no follow up clause or clause for no follow up

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby JayS » 18 Jan 2019 19:06

ArjunPandit wrote:^^dfi yusuf posted the article and mentioned that one interesting point in the new deal was no follow up clause or clause for no follow up


I have failed to find any official word on existence of Options clause or otherwise. News reports are contradictory. You will find many on both sides.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby chetak » 18 Jan 2019 23:40

https://youtu.be/mb92ZWzBWME

Rafale Deal - Nitin Gupta 'Rivaldo' explains - Genius of Rahul Gandhi


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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby chetak » 18 Jan 2019 23:54

Philip wrote:Hindu today, front page report by N.Ram alleges that the decision to buy 36 Raffys increased the unit cost by 41%.
Inside pages give alleged facts, etc.Someone kindly post thd link/ relevant key points.Don't shoot the towncrier! :mrgreen:

read manu pubby and iyerwal on this topic.

saar,

go here and see

https://twitter.com/Iyervval/status/1086142417055764483

someone has shamelessly lifted the entire "original" article from what these two have already written and that too, without any attribution and then added on their own ridiculous inferences and conclusions which are pure and bigoted fantasy.

if you copy from one its called "plagiarism" but if you copy from more than one, its called "original" research.

BTW, our own Rohit Vats has also written a very lucid article on the rafale deal.

I think it was quoted and linked a few pages ago.

also,

N Ram of The Hindu blatantly picks up the work of another journalist on Rafale to brand it an “exclusive”

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 19 Jan 2019 03:47

The Ministry of Defence has already issued a rebuttal to that lifafa piece....

Image

Image

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 19 Jan 2019 03:56

VIDEO

No, N. Ram, you are wrong on Rafale: Abhijit Iyer-Mitra's rebuttal to The Hindu
https://www.mynation.com/news/no-n-ram- ... ndu-plj42m

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Austin » 20 Jan 2019 15:25

Rafale - Nature of the India Specific Enhancements (ISEs)

The 12 list of Enhancement listed in blog by Vijainder K Thakur makes me believe these Rafale purchase are primarily for Special Delivery Vehicle


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