VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

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pandyan
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby pandyan » 28 Oct 2020 21:25

HVT Sir's post

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/1320558045621972992
Frankly, quite tired of previous generations having left Indian Aerospace industry in a mess.

Enough imports slavery. Spend some serious effort of Indian developments. Not lip service. Not stand on the fence & wait for Ind R&D to fail. Contribute, not comment.

Happy #Dussehra


https://twitter.com/MjaVinod/status/1320727066413727745

100% in agreement. At the cost of repetition I say this, shifting of goal post in the past has been one of the reason for delay in #LCA
Hope #AMCA #Tejas2 is supported to the hilt

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Vivek K » 29 Oct 2020 00:39

Rakesh wrote:Saar, why are you taking takleef over an article that is riddled with errors? Why? :)

Because that is what I am hearing from all chaiwallahs and pan wallahs.

Apart from the delivery schedule, please tell me how the article is sound? You are a senior poster, so read that article again please and tell me what how and what that reporter is stating is going to be possible?

Come now Admiral. My stand has been consistent. Develop your own weapons - that is the only safety for India. Take pride in your own development and it will stand you in good stead. Avoid mistakes like the Jaguar and perhaps in 20 years we will be saying the same for Rafale. The MKI provides a comprehensive platform in addition to the LCA. IAF should enhance the potential of the MKIs. And IAF should buy used M2Ks if feasible (airframe life, cost, LCCA etc.)

With Safran failing to revive the Kaveri, they are probably looking at a MRO facility for the M88 turbofan...to fulfill their offset obligations. The reporter heard something along those lines and then added his own masala to it.

Why would ANYONE expect to receive engine tech for say even $25B on a platter is hard for me to understand. Indians really are naive.

P.S. I have some "takleef" news for you in the MMRCA thread :)

That is one thread I don't waste much time on. A more appropriate title would be Intellectual Masturbation (as Hakeem ji would put it).

But take heart, it is only a news report. Nothing confirmed. Don't get despondent.

This one has wings. And one crash of the LCA (in 20-21 years) and the whole lot will be discarded.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 29 Oct 2020 00:58

Vivek K wrote:
Rakesh wrote:Saar, why are you taking takleef over an article that is riddled with errors? Why? :)

Because that is what I am hearing from all chaiwallahs and pan wallahs.

Please take this in the right spirit. Your chaiwallahs and pan wallahs are playing with your mind. If you act despondent in person, in the manner you display on the forum, anyone will do it to you...just to get a kick out of watching you do rona-dhona in person. Read the article again and *THINK* if what that reporter is stating will be plausible.

Vivek K wrote:
Rakesh wrote:Apart from the delivery schedule, please tell me how the article is sound? You are a senior poster, so read that article again please and tell me what how and what that reporter is stating is going to be possible?

Come now Admiral. My stand has been consistent. Develop your own weapons - that is the only safety for India. Take pride in your own development and it will stand you in good stead. Avoid mistakes like the Jaguar and perhaps in 20 years we will be saying the same for Rafale. The MKI provides a comprehensive platform in addition to the LCA. IAF should enhance the potential of the MKIs. And IAF should buy used M2Ks if feasible (airframe life, cost, LCCA etc.)

My issue lies not with your stand, but rather you extrapolating scenarios from an article that is deeply flawed in logic.

Vivek K wrote:
Rakesh wrote:With Safran failing to revive the Kaveri, they are probably looking at a MRO facility for the M88 turbofan...to fulfill their offset obligations. The reporter heard something along those lines and then added his own masala to it.

Why would ANYONE expect to receive engine tech for say even $25B on a platter is hard for me to understand. Indians really are naive.

So you have come to the conclusion that the article is indeed incorrect? Welcome to reality.

Vivek K wrote:
Rakesh wrote:P.S. I have some "takleef" news for you in the MMRCA thread :)

That is one thread I don't waste much time on. A more appropriate title would be Intellectual Masturbation (as Hakeem ji would put it).

:lol:

Vivek K wrote:
Rakesh wrote:But take heart, it is only a news report. Nothing confirmed. Don't get despondent.

This one has wings. And one crash of the LCA (in 20-21 years) and the whole lot will be discarded.

Has the Army, Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard retired the HAL Dhruv because of the crashes it endured in service?

Come on man, get real.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 29 Oct 2020 22:07

https://twitter.com/bishwa55900127/stat ... 76256?s=20 ---> IAF Rafale expected arrival schedule.

July 29, 2020: 5 (arrived)
Nov 5, 2020: 3 (direct non-stop flight from France)
Jan 2021: 3
Mar 2021: 3
Apr 2021: 7

This will be 21 jets.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Tanaji » 30 Oct 2020 06:28

tsarkar wrote:Absolutely. Its very simple to comprehend if you think logically and reasonably. The Mi-25/35 with 1000's produced and operated has a well established support base. So even numbers as low as 10 can be maintained and supported.

Same with most of the major MMRCA contenders. F-16 for example with 1000's flying. So neither maintenance nor logistics will be any problem


Replied here to avoid going off topic for this thread

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 03 Nov 2020 22:57

https://twitter.com/VishalJolapara/stat ... 94944?s=20 ---> Bas theek hai! Towbar attached, let's take her in.

Image

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Mort Walker » 03 Nov 2020 23:34

^^^Does that ladder extend to the ground? It appears to be a proprietary type of ladder which has pin/hook connections which could subject the airframe to damage if improperly attached with excess loads. I could imagine an electronics technician servicing the avionics carrying heavy equipment who inadvertently damages the aircraft.
Last edited by Mort Walker on 03 Nov 2020 23:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 03 Nov 2020 23:34

Specific to the aircraft and tested. No worries there. See pictures below of French Air Force Rafales....same ladder type.

Image

Image

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Mort Walker » 03 Nov 2020 23:37

^^^If I saw that, no matter how good an aircraft, I would have rejected it. Seems convoluted and gives an insight to the designers. Like a Ferrari - fast, but a maintenance nightmare.

Rafale specific ladders? will it work on any other combat aircraft like the Mirage 2000 and Shaguar? God knows what else is specific.
Last edited by Mort Walker on 03 Nov 2020 23:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby brar_w » 03 Nov 2020 23:40

Mort Walker wrote:^^^Does that ladder extend to the ground? It appears to be a proprietary type of ladder which has pin/hook connections which could subject the airframe to damage if improperly attached with excess loads. I could imagine an electronics technician servicing the avionics carrying heavy equipment who inadvertently damages the aircraft.

There is usually a fair bit of standardization with boarding ladders. I assume Rafale will be compatible with what was used on the M2K. Improper use can damage certain sensitive areas but it is mostly a nuisance than a major concern. One of the learnings from the F-22A program was the damage to RAM/RAS with improper ladder emplacement particularly because there were some sensitive electronics which also needed to be checked in case there was ladder induced damage. On the F-35 they just did away with it and and integrated a ladder into the airframe itself. I assume the Rafale, with its naval fighter design goal, would be more immune to ladder rash etc then compared to M2K it replace..

Image
Last edited by brar_w on 03 Nov 2020 23:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 03 Nov 2020 23:42

Mort-ji, come on! :lol:

Like these ladders, also suspended in mid-air...just hanging off the airframe?

Image

Image

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Mort Walker » 03 Nov 2020 23:45

^^^Which is why I would reject the F-15 and F-16. ;)

At least the F-35 ladder is internal, so you don't have to go running around trying to find the right ladder. What if the IAF techs brought a Mig-29 ladder by mistake? :lol:
Last edited by Mort Walker on 03 Nov 2020 23:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 03 Nov 2020 23:45

Mort Saar, should the IAF also reject the Tejas...because the ladder for the Tejas is also just hanging off the airframe? :lol:


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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Mort Walker » 03 Nov 2020 23:48

^^^That is is a super sturdy Indian ladder meant to carry idli-dosa-sambar to pilot between sorties.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 03 Nov 2020 23:48

brar_w wrote:I assume the Rafale, with its naval fighter design goal, would be more immune to ladder rash etc then compared to M2K it replace..

Rafale M uses a ladder from within the airframe, like the F-35....

Image

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 03 Nov 2020 23:48

Mort Walker wrote:^^^That is is a super sturdy Indian ladder meant to carry idli-dosa-sambar to pilot between sorties.

Now you are just being silly. Can we move on? :lol:

Mort Walker wrote:At least the F-35 ladder is internal, so you don't have to go running around trying to find the right ladder. What if the IAF techs brought a Mig-29 ladder by mistake? :lol:

That mistake cannot happen. With your experience, you should know that is not possible :)

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby brar_w » 03 Nov 2020 23:57

Rakesh wrote:Rafale M uses a ladder from within the airframe, like the F-35....


Interesting choice of a retractable ladder but a non-retractable refueling probe ;). I am sure this will not be repeated on the SCAF/FCAS.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 03 Nov 2020 23:57

indeed :)

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby RajaRudra » 04 Nov 2020 21:57

https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1324010303844048899


Indian Air Force
@IAF_MCC
Second batch of IAF #Rafale aircraft arrived in India at 8:14 pm on 04 Nov 20 after flying non-stop from France.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Roop » 06 Nov 2020 07:53

Second batch of IAF #Rafale aircraft arrived in India at 8:14 pm on 04 Nov 20 after flying non-stop from France.


Holy kanoli, Batman! Non-stop from France? That's a LONG flight.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 06 Nov 2020 08:24

Roop wrote:Holy kanoli, Batman! Non-stop from France? That's a LONG flight.

Long flight indeed with multiple in-flight refuelings from a French Air Force tanker. Three aircraft took off from Istres airbase in France to Jamnagar airport in Gujarat. One day stop over at Jamnagar and then directly to Ambala AFS in Punjab. Perhaps my eyes are playing tricks on me, but some of the pilots appear to be the same who flew in the first batch.

Three more are coming in Jan 2021, three more in March 2021 and seven in April 2021. That will be 21 aircraft by April 2021. 18 examples will go to No 17 Golden Arrows Squadron and I am assuming the remaining three will form the nucleus of the second Rafale squadron (No 101 Falcons) at Hasimara in West Bengal. The remaining 15 aircraft of No 101 Squadron will arrive by April 2022, with tail number RB008 being the last to arrive. RB008 is the ISE specific Rafale undergoing flight testing and certification in France.

The ISE updates on the remaining 35 Rafales will be complete by Sept 2022 in India itself.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 10 Nov 2020 23:08

From the official IAF twitter account....

https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1324 ... 00033?s=20 ---> IAF deeply appreciates the tanker support extended by French Air Force for the direct ferry by second batch of IAF Rafales.

Image

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Cyrano » 11 Nov 2020 02:14

From the LCA video above, at 5:07 what are the two red locks on the instrument console for? Who keeps the keys?

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Mort Walker » 11 Nov 2020 06:33

Cyrano wrote:From the LCA video above, at 5:07 what are the two red locks on the instrument console for? Who keeps the keys?

You can see this from this picture: These appear to be safety lockouts. At around 4:35 onwards you can see the ACM installing the lockouts after landing. It is most likely part of the procedure after landing and before normal egress.

Image

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Cain Marko » 11 Nov 2020 07:50

Roop wrote:
Second batch of IAF #Rafale aircraft arrived in India at 8:14 pm on 04 Nov 20 after flying non-stop from France.


Holy kanoli, Batman! Non-stop from France? That's a LONG flight.

Impressive indeed but iirc the Russians did something similar with the mig35 since years ago for aero India or the trials.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Cyrano » 12 Nov 2020 00:46

Thanks Mort. Perhaps they disable the ejection seat etc? Or deactivate all controls as well ?

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Mort Walker » 12 Nov 2020 02:08

I suspect it has something to do with the avionics and accidentally removing it while power is applied. I’m not sure until we see better pictures.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Karan M » 12 Nov 2020 04:59

Can be for the WCS, apart from the avionics as well.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Cyrano » 13 Nov 2020 00:58

I strongly suspect this is a clever move to increase indigenous content of LCA - Naa koi darr...Naa ghotala...Jab laga ho Harrison Taala ;-)


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