VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Cain Marko » 22 Jan 2021 11:12

How do the Panthers compare to their competition? At this price, the deal seems really sweet. Don't see much downside unless the Panther somehow ruins the Dhruv. From what I saw, the Israelis seem to favor the panthers for their Saar ships.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby ramana » 23 Jan 2021 12:34

Katara.And undercuts LUH.
No thank you.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby ramana » 23 Jan 2021 12:36

It would be nicer to stand the two squadrons with 9 aircraft each. And keep adding as more planes arrive. However don't know if the other airbase is ready.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby maitya » 23 Jan 2021 20:33

Kartik wrote:
Cybaru wrote:54 Raffies make sense. Can fully utilize the ground-based assets that are invested in.
Dauphin is waste of time.
New A330 MRTT is a waste as well. we won't even use 30% of the life of the platform in 30-40 years. Best to buy used A330 and convert them if needed at 40% price.

<snip>
Not sure if the Panthers are as attractive as the other two, but that could possibly be key to the package. Take it out and the French may not go for the package as is.
<snip>

How about 36 Raffies + 6 MRTT + 40 used-M2000Cs from French AF (life-extended to 3-3.5K hrs) for 5.5b Euros - they can keep their junk-Panthers for their own use, thank you!!
FrAF does still have 50+ M2K Cs I think ... and IIRC they are up for replacement by the Raffies, but fund-crunch is delaying it (their Raffie production-line is currently under-utilized at approx 50-60%, IIRC). This "additional" 0.5b euro may just give them right kind of funding opportunity to start their replacements.

My only worry is some clever-by-half MoD Baboon (and there are no dearth of them) would work overtime and sell this Panther junk to politicos, all in the name of some "package deal" - and thus end-up undercutting the LUH.
And IAF of course, will be blinded at just the mention of Rafale ...

SIGH!! Strategic Thinking/National Interest/Atmanirbhar etc are just that ... mere slogans!! :((

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby srin » 23 Jan 2021 20:54

Instead of the Panthers, offer unlimited Scorpene production, and I'll sign on ...

In any case, I don't think another MRCA contest will actually fructify. Buying Rafales off the shelf is the least risky path (though not politically)

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Vips » 23 Jan 2021 22:03

I doubt French would sell their M2000's to us as that would be only reducing the number of Rafales we would buy in the long run. Upgraded M2000
with the new MICA IR and a replacement of the Matra Magic missile would be a potent combo even for the chinese lizards.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby sudeepj » 23 Jan 2021 22:37

We should ask for meteor integration on LCA Mk1 for the extra rafale order. Otherwise, there is only a period of 5 years or so when these extra rafales will matter. By then LCA Mk2/desi rafale will be productionised along with the SFDR Astra 3.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby brar_w » 23 Jan 2021 22:38

The French Air Force is already on the receiving end given that their Rafale orders have been truncated or deferred with either aircraft operated by them being handed over to export customers (like Greece) or by production slots being made available for export instead of domestic need thereby prolonging their fighter modernization plans. Somehow I doubt they would agree to a double whammy or delayed Rafale deliveries and simultaneously the sale of their existing Mirage 2000's out of active service. Dassault and the French MOD will like the Rafale's production to smoothly transition to the SCAF some 12-15 years from now so that limits their production rates because they need backlog to prevent production gaps. So given all that, I seriously doubt the French AF would be willing to let go of those Mirage 2K's without securing faster Rafale deliveries to which Dassault and the MOD will object.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 25 Jan 2021 01:35

may be we can sell them a few tejas!

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Vips » 27 Jan 2021 22:42

3rd batch of Rafale fighter jets lands in India.

The third batch of three Rafale aircraft landed at an Indian Air Force base a short while ago, the Indian Air Force said.

'They flew over 7,000 km with in-flight refuelling. The aircraft got airborne earlier today from Istres Air Base in France. The IAF deeply appreciates the tanker support provided by UAE Air Force,' said the IAF.

The first batch of five Rafale jets arrived in India on July 29, 2020, nearly four years after India signed an inter-governmental agreement with France to procure 36 of the aircraft at a cost of Rs 59,000 crore.

The second batch of three Rafale jets arrived in India on November 3.

The Rafale jets, manufactured by French aerospace major Dassault Aviation, are India's first major acquisition of fighter planes in 23 years after the Sukhoi jets were imported from Russia.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby nachiket » 28 Jan 2021 00:37

Vips wrote:The Rafale jets, manufactured by French aerospace major Dassault Aviation, are India's first major acquisition of fighter planes in 23 years after the Sukhoi jets were imported from Russia.

Typical DDM. Completely ignoring the Tejas induction. Only imports count towards acquisition. Not to mention the fact that the Su-30's weren't all acquired 23 years ago. The whole 272 aircraft order is still not fully delivered and they are being built at HAL not imported.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 28 Jan 2021 08:26

Imports lead to commissions which includes settlement of children abroad, it's a nice gravy train. Foreign countries know make in India is not in thier interest and don't provide such privileges to this ecosystem.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby dkhare » 28 Jan 2021 23:58

SCALPs on IAF Rafale
Credit to:@hukum2082 on Twitter

Image

https://twitter.com/hukum2082/status/1354771145065590790

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Prithwiraj » 29 Jan 2021 00:33

maitya wrote:
Kartik wrote:<snip>

How about 36 Raffies + 6 MRTT + 40 used-M2000Cs from French AF (life-extended to 3-3.5K hrs) for 5.5b Euros - they can keep their junk-Panthers for their own use, thank you!!
FrAF does still have 50+ M2K Cs I think ... and IIRC they are up for replacement by the Raffies, but fund-crunch is delaying it (their Raffie production-line is currently under-utilized at approx 50-60%, IIRC). This "additional" 0.5b euro may just give them right kind of funding opportunity to start their replacements.

My only worry is some clever-by-half MoD Baboon (and there are no dearth of them) would work overtime and sell this Panther junk to politicos, all in the name of some "package deal" - and thus end-up undercutting the LUH.
And IAF of course, will be blinded at just the mention of Rafale ...

SIGH!! Strategic Thinking/National Interest/Atmanirbhar etc are just that ... mere slogans!! :((


French Air Force M2000 are currently going through upgrades - I doubt they are available

https://www.aerotime.aero/26913-french- ... rage-2000d

The French Air Force received the first modernized Mirage 2000D on January 7, 2020. The aircraft will now be put to the test by the Military Air Expertise Center (CEAM) in Mont-de-Marsan Air Base 118, in southwestern France.

The purpose of the modernization was to update the Mirage 2000D avionics and allow the employment of the MICA anti-air missiles instead of the current MAGIC. “It will provide the Mirage 2000D with improved air-to-ground and air-to-air capabilities, as well as a complementary, tactile and centralized navigation and attack system, which will facilitate dialogue between man and machine,” explained the French Air Force. Additionally, a new cannon pod, called CC422, was developed specifically for this standard. It is a shortened version of the 30mm CC420 cannon carried by the late Mirage F1B. 55 Mirage 2000D fighters should receive the upgrade.

“This new M2000D standard will now, and for nearly a year, undergo state tests and experiments before it can be declared operational,” said the Air Force. “The ambition is thus to be able to deploy the renovated M2000D in operation during the year 2022, after a period of assimilation in the units of the 3ème Escadre de Chasse (3rd Fighter Wing).”

The Mirage 2000 is a multirole fighter jet developed by Dassault Aviation in the 1970s. The D (Diversified) variant is an updated version of the airframe with two seats. Based on the Mirage 2000N (Nuclear), which was the main nuclear strike platform of the French Air Force until 2018, the Mirage 2000D was designed for long-range precision strikes using conventional weapons. As for the nuclear role, it has since been taken over by the Rafale, another Dassault aircraft.

READ MORE:

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby nachiket » 29 Jan 2021 04:46

The Mirage-2000D is a ground attack version. They have mentioned MICA being integrated as part of the upgrade but I doubt they are as capable as the IAF's upgraded M2k's in air-to-air.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 30 Jan 2021 01:58

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1352970456362455041?s=20 ---> Rafales which we (Indian Air Force) have are the fastest and most advanced as of now: IAF Squadron Leader Sarthak Kumar, on being asked if Indian Rafales were more advanced than their French counterparts, at Jodhpur Air Force Station.

https://twitter.com/syedmohdmurtaza/sta ... 64321?s=20 ---> Very 'Smart' Question. Gems covering Defence in India. The IAF officer is equally diplomatic!

https://twitter.com/Firezstarter1/statu ... 68097?s=20 ---> What's diplomatic about it? The IAF guy is being factual. The Indian Rafales are to have an extra jammer, towed decoy, a full IRST capability, they are indeed the most advanced ones as of present.

Image

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 30 Jan 2021 06:04

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 94561?s=20 ---> Cutaway of the Scalp EG/Storm Shadow cruise missiles recently inducted in IAF:

Image

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 03 Feb 2021 01:24

X-Post from the International Aerospace Thread....

Τurmoil in Turkey: ''Greek Rafale fighter jets with Meteor missiles will crush us''
https://www.pentapostagma.gr/ethnika-th ... r-missiles
02 Feb 2021

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 03 Feb 2021 06:58

https://twitter.com/Amitraaz/status/135 ... 82977?s=20 ---> New generation Buddy refueling Pod, nacelle (NARANG) by @SAFRAN for Rafale M.

https://twitter.com/Amitraaz/status/135 ... 45346?s=20 ---> The Ram air turbine (RAT) here is connected to the fuel pump, installed to regulate the fuel supply. It generates power from the airstream by ram pressure due to the speed of the aircraft(up to 0.9 Mach). Graphic: Mk.32B Pod.

Image

Image

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Cyrano » 03 Feb 2021 16:02

"Schuss" to succeed Babuc !

Rafale Solo Display

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Kartik » 03 Feb 2021 16:47

Rafales fly past during the Aero India show

Image

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby sajaym » 03 Feb 2021 16:53

Cyrano wrote:"Schuss" to succeed Babuc !

Rafale Solo Display

Is that some screws which have been removed -- in the panel in front of Babuc?

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 04 Feb 2021 02:39

https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... 15746?s=20 ---> Just in!!! And the announcement we were waiting for! BEL delivers transmit/receive modules to Thales for Rafale RBE2 radar. BEL has manufactured T/R (transmit/receive) modules for the RBE2 radar on the Dassault Aviation Rafale and delivered them to Thales.

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/135 ... 81314?s=20 ---> As part of @ThalesGroup's offsets commitments under the Indian Rafale contract, Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL) says it has manufactured & delivered transmit/receive modules for the Rafale's RBE2 radar to Thales.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby fanne » 04 Feb 2021 03:24

what is manufactured here implies?

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 04 Feb 2021 23:36

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 87589?s=20 ---> "IAF's Rafale F3Rs have worried the PLAAF," says IAF Chief ACM Bhadauria.

https://twitter.com/ShubhamSpeaks01/sta ... 55616?s=20 ---> Basically he is asking for more Rafale. Around 114.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 05 Feb 2021 07:40

A news piece on the above tweets ^^^

Rafale has caused worries in China's camp, says IAF Chief
https://www.indiatvnews.com/news/india/ ... ria-682651
04 Feb 2021

Noting the actions and capabilities of the Chinese side, the IAF Chief said, "They had brought their J-20 fighter aircraft (to areas close to Eastern Ladakh) and they go off from there but that is the flexibility of airpower. The moment Indian Rafales were brought in, their J-20 was there. We know their actions and capabilities and we are taking the required steps."

How is the IAF managing to track J-20s, that are "supposedly" VLO platforms? :mrgreen:

Whether the induction of Rafale aircraft has caused worries in the Chinese camp, he said, "Of course, it will."

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Kakkaji » 08 Feb 2021 22:07

11 Rafale aircraft in India, entire batch expected by April 2022: Defence Minister

NEW DELHI: Defence Minister Rajnath Singh on Monday said that 11 Rafale aircraft have arrived in India while the entire batch of aircraft will come by April 2022 in the country.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 09 Feb 2021 00:18

https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... 25056?s=20 ---> Lots of speculation what Dassault Reliance Aerospace Ltd (DRAL) does. Well, amongst many things being done for Dassault, DRAL are at their joint stand at Aero India'21--- here are some images! Rafale rudder and engine doors being manufactured at Nagpur.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby srai » 09 Feb 2021 06:26

^^^
Do we know how many Rafale LRUs/parts DRAL manufacturers for PBL/ongoing maintenance?

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 17 Feb 2021 22:08

https://twitter.com/sandeepbaliga/statu ... 08448?s=20 --->

Meteor is the next gen Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile system designed to revolutionize air-to-air combat . Guided by an advanced active radar seeker, Meteor provides all weather capability to engage a wide variety of targets.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 17 Feb 2021 22:24

Photograph Copyright - Dhruvashish Vangala

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/10057417 ---> The newly inducted Indian Air Force Rafale slowing down on the runway after its debut air display at India's Biggest Air Show - Aero India in Bengaluru, Karnataka, India. The aircrafts registered with tail number BSXXX are the fighter versions which will fly with the tail sign initials of BS after the previous chief, Birender Singh Dhanoa. The Rafales have had a very bumpy ride to get inducted by the Indian Air Force, though they have finally arrived and the whole country is now proud of having them in the fleet. The appearance was made at the very first air show that had taken place post the Covid-19 pandemic.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby gpurewal » 18 Feb 2021 03:17

Rakesh wrote: The aircrafts registered with tail number BSXXX are the fighter versions which will fly with the tail sign initials of BS after the previous chief, Birender Singh Dhanoa..



Hi Rakesh,

Is this a new trend, or has this been done before, where the tail sign's have the initials of a certain Chief of Air Staff? I was intrigued by this, so I looked into the SU-30 MKI tail signs (SB xxx) and they don't match the initials of ACM Sareen, Tipnis, or Krishnaswamy.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby venkat_kv » 20 Feb 2021 01:57

There was a discussion earlier in the thread disproved the above assertion I think. Its a link from newscentral24x7. I am getting a malicious warning sign regarding the site when i try to open it up. This was posted by Tsarkar then. attaching the two links

https://newscentral24x7.com/indian-air- ... -dassault/

search.php?keywords=rafale+naming&t=7266&sf=msgonly

the latest news searches all seem to have the same assertion that the Rafale is named after ex chiefs.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby jamwal » 24 Feb 2021 12:33

French Rafale after clipping a power line. Fuel tank is made of metal, but that part of fuselage seems to be something else.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby ramana » 25 Feb 2021 04:26

Composite. Based on color not graphite fiber.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 25 Feb 2021 05:08

That is going to be one expensive repair. I have seen French Air Force ground personnel with grinders to smooth out the airframe after a sortie. This goes way beyond that. Lots of panels and internals will have to be changed.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Kartik » 26 Feb 2021 11:53

France begins backfilling it's Rafale fleet after selling some to Greece

Contracts to Dassault Aviation, Safran (the engine manufacturer) and Thales (the electronics) will be sent out by the DGA procurement agency in the next few days. While no price tag was given during Parly’s announcement, Trappier has previously said one fully equipped fighter costs around 100 million euros, or $121 million, which would put the total package at just under $1.5 billion.


That appears to be the fly-away cost of a Rafale - $121 million. Any cheaper won't likely be possible. Add all the other items that go into a large contract and one can easily see how a single Rafale along with spares, weapons, ground equipment, sims, test and maintenance equipment, etc. will easily cost in the range of $170-$180 million.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby srai » 01 Mar 2021 07:53

Old video: Rafale vs F-22



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