OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

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ramana
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Postby ramana » 04 Oct 2020 05:00

Not only that, the EEL folks won on technical merit of the timer for the grenade a fact ot being mentioned in above article. If OFB had made the fuze to the spec they would have raised a stink on awarding the contract to the provate industry.

ramana
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Postby ramana » 04 Oct 2020 05:02

The idea of a Multimode grenade with a screw-on fragmentation cylinder is German innovation I had seen in the 1970s book on modern weapons. And thanks to the entire arms procurement MoD, MoDP, DRDO, and OFB all failed for 50 years.

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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Postby ramana » 04 Oct 2020 05:05

Also OFB fooled AK Anthony in 2014 by laying out a Bofors and pretended he was inagurating a Dhansuh factory. For this the top echelons of OFB should be fired and the pension for those who retired should be cancelled.
You dont fool a minster for his is a representative of the people.

https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/me ... cid/212141

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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Postby darshan » 04 Oct 2020 05:56

ramana wrote: For this the top echelons of OFB should be fired and the pension for those who retired should be cancelled.

Only an honest person would be scared to loose his pension and honor for being fired. Such a person would have never fooled Indian public like that and would have rather turned in a resignation.

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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Postby LakshmanPST » 04 Oct 2020 06:21



Some comments on OFB... Sharing it here... Take it FWIW...

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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Postby amitdb » 04 Oct 2020 09:08

ramana wrote:You dont fool a minster for his is a representative of the people.

Below article brings out some more of such unfathomable rot within the OFB.

https://tfipost.com/2020/09/the-ordnance-factory-board-has-let-the-indian-army-down-and-modi-govts-decision-to-corporatise-it-is-a-great-move/

As per reports, the employees of Ordnance Factories have called for indefinite strike from October 12 against the finance minister’s announcement of the corporatisation of Ordnance Factory Board (OFB). Headquartered in Kolkata, OFB is said to be among the oldest and most inefficient organizations in the world. A white elephant of the Nehruvian economy, it employs more than 80,000 people in 41 ordnance factories, 13 ordnance R&D centres, and nine ordnance institutes of learning.

The allies of India like Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Maldives, Myanmar are forced to purchase defence equipment from enemy countries like China due to inefficiency of India’s state-owned producers. These countries are defence allies of India but they purchase defence equipment from China because Indian companies are not able to meet their demand, and how would they? These companies cannot meet the demand of Indian armed forces and if our domestic forces are not willing to use equipment manufactured by OFB and HAL, why would any foreign country go for them. Wow, these suckers have been shooting down our defence diplomacy efforts as well.

Apart from the purchase of the rotten equipment worth around 14,000 crore rupees, the Ministry of Defence also gives around 700 crore rupees to the Ordnance Factory Board to subsidize their losses from the overall operation. Similarly, HAL continues to have a red balance sheet despite the purchase of its inefficient equipment by the armed forces. Successive CAG reports have criticized the OFB for its inefficiencies.

As per the report, Ordnance factories achieved production targets only for 49 percent of items and expenditure on human resources constituted 33 percent of budget compared to 20 percent on average for private companies. And, the audacity of the OFB employees is such that they are ready to protest despite bagging 33 percent of expenditure and making OFB bankrupt while supplying sub-standard products to Armed forces.

Work-in-progress (unfinished items lying on the shop floor) constituted 32 percent of the inventory. Orders as old as year 2009-10 were yet to be delivered, a delay of 10 years. Apple graduated from iphone 4 to iphone 11 within this period and here we are still in a primitive state of functioning.” wrote Rajan Kochhar, retired Major General, in Economic Times, on Ordnance Factories.

As per the CAG report, the inefficiency of Ordnance Factories adversely affects the preparedness of Indian Armed Forces at a time when the country faces the threat of a two-front war. “A significant quantity of Army’s demand for some principal ammunition items remained outstanding as on 31 March 2018, thus adversely affecting their operational preparedness. In addition, the exports by OFB decreased by 39 per cent in 2017-18 over 2016-17,” the CAG report said.


I sincerely hope GOI doesn't give in to these leeches. But its also very worrying that the enemy is at the border and the campaigning season is just around the corner, and these commies are calling strikes. Tell me if this isn't a deshdroh then what is? I'm sure there will be some natsec law or something that GOI can whip up to spank these commie unions with.

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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Postby Cyrano » 04 Oct 2020 14:18

Unfortunately OFB's location is WB will become a real headache. We can expect Didi to do her bit to prevent dispute resolution with the OFB Union leaders to get back at Modi/BJP.

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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Postby nam » 04 Oct 2020 14:38

There will not major reforms at OFB. Changing corporate structure will not make any difference. They will just increase the number of managerial positions and will ask GoI to invest more in the name of "modernization".

OFB is a lovely gravy train. Someone needs to look at the list of suppliers and figure how many are relatives of existing officers or ex-officers. At the political and babu level, TOT to OFB is a great business. Make a TOT deal, to show as local production. Take kickbacks using the higher cost because of TOT. Annual cut from the royalty payments.

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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya G » 04 Oct 2020 21:09

Sandeep U's article in India Today lays out the end state of the ordnance corporations.

5 companies will be created.

Image

IMHO once these are created, the next step should be merge the counterpart lab from DRDO with the factory as well. So CVRDE can be merged with Corporation 2 for example.

Another idea would be to let BEML takeover the Corporation 4 directly.

ramana
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Postby ramana » 05 Oct 2020 22:15

Not merge but attach the corresponding DRDO lab.
Reason is DRDO is supporting private mfg also and merger would cut that resource.
Lets see about BEML for they were ready to threaten an Army Chief to buy more Tatra trucks. And an earthmover company hardly is capable of armored vehicles
Maybe the chassis.

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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Postby ashbhee » 06 Oct 2020 08:21

All the workers who go on strike on 12th should be fired. That is one way to trim the workforce.

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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Postby yensoy » 06 Oct 2020 09:42

Instead of breaking it up by verticals, it should be broken up into 3 or 4 units which combine the relevant technologies. For instance, what's the point with Corporation 1 making the shells and Corporation 2 making the guns? In the event of malfunction, there will be more finger pointing. The corporation which makes some gun (say the Bofors) should also have the factory that produces its shells. The Bofors line could be given to one; the BMP line to the other etc. That would be a more sensible division IMHO.

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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Postby srin » 08 Oct 2020 14:59

yensoy wrote:Instead of breaking it up by verticals, it should be broken up into 3 or 4 units which combine the relevant technologies. For instance, what's the point with Corporation 1 making the shells and Corporation 2 making the guns? In the event of malfunction, there will be more finger pointing. The corporation which makes some gun (say the Bofors) should also have the factory that produces its shells. The Bofors line could be given to one; the BMP line to the other etc. That would be a more sensible division IMHO.


Why not ?
From a production point of view, what economies of scale or advantage does making guns provide for making shells ? I'd guess the competency and machinery and volumes required (metallurgy vs explosive handling) are different.

Let they become different companies. As long as the army has the ability to have an open tender for the shells with all desi players and OFB and there is a fair competition, it should be fine.

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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Postby srin » 08 Oct 2020 15:02

Issue with OFB is that while we and military look upon them for the defense of the country, the netas and unions and babus look upon them as job guarantee scheme at lower level and free perk scheme at higher levels.
I'm kinda sad that GoI is stopping at corporatization. I want to see real privatization. And real competition to grow out of the cost-plus model of pricing.

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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Postby nachiket » 08 Oct 2020 20:57

srin wrote:Issue with OFB is that while we and military look upon them for the defense of the country, the netas and unions and babus look upon them as job guarantee scheme at lower level and free perk scheme at higher levels.
I'm kinda sad that GoI is stopping at corporatization. I want to see real privatization. And real competition to grow out of the cost-plus model of pricing.

It is difficult to privatize OFB without breaking it down first into individual corporate entities. Once that is done, privatizing individual units would be easier. Mosre private players will have the financial ability to bid for smaller units than the whole behemoth. Also looking at the amount of opposition to corporatization itself there would be several times that against privatization. That can be managed easier when you are doing it piecemeal, one or two units at a time. OFB is a colonial relic. It needs to be dealt with using the colonial "divide and rule" policy.

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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Postby ashbhee » 08 Oct 2020 20:57

The strike should be used as an opportunity to get rid of he excess staff before privatization. Just fire all the workers who strike when we are facing a possibility of two front war.

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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Postby srin » 08 Oct 2020 21:30

The strike actually makes a good case for fixing the OFB problem and may even energize the govt to do so. The irony seems to be lost on the trade unions.

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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Postby amitdb » 09 Oct 2020 03:01

Criticizing the BJP ruled GOI on matters relating to anything and everything under the sun is the congress's way of staying relevant in indian polity these days, and for them it simply doesn't matter even if that criticism is borderline anti-india in nature. Here's a fresh example of just that from congress's so called 'intellectual' torch-bearers..

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/6-cong-letter-signatories-to-govt-review-move-to-privatise-ordnance-factories-152811

In the first joint statement, Ghulam Nabi Azad, Anand Sharma, Vivek Tankha, Kapil Sibal, Manish Tewari and Shashi Tharoor, prominent members of the Congress ginger group, also said changes in the Defence Offset Policy and Transfer of technology were a matter of serious concern and must be reversed. This is the first time the Congress letter writers have issued any joint statement, independent of party platforms, on government policy.

The statement describes proposed privatisation of the 41 Ordnance Factories, changes in the FDI Policy and dilution of the Defence Offsets Policy, including dispensing with the condition of Transfer of Technology in acquisition of weapons and equipment for the armed forces, as “deeply disturbing”, saying the decisions “compromise national security interests and will have long term implications for India’s defence preparedness and in becoming a self-reliant nation”.

“These decisions are also in conflict with the Government’s Make in India campaign,” they noted mentioning how 70,000 employees of all 41 Ordnance Factories across India are on a month-long strike in protest against “Corporatisation” of the Ordnance Factory Board.

The Congress leaders cited the “failed” example of Privatisation of Royal Ordnance Factories in Britain and said, “This comparison is relevant considering the fact that the Indian Ordnance Factories originate and are successors of the Royal Ordnance Factories.” (It turned out bad for gora saab so it'll naturally be bad for us as well. wah re logic)

They said the OFB is accountable to the people through Parliament and also CAG.

The Government’s must explain in what way the OFB has failed in transparency and accountability in a democratic system with check and balances, they noted, adding that handing over these factories and assets to private sector is bereft of justification and against India’s national interest. (god only knows, why and how?)


Letter seems to be full of unsubstantiated statements with absolutely no sincere efforts to reason the criticism, though it's a different matter that sincerity and reasoning are the last things one expects from congress considering how they conduct there business these days.
Anyways, such a stand is not at all surprising considering the fact that OFB and numerous such orgs are after all the byproducts of chacha ji's socialist economy.

I just hope more folks from military and defence circles will come out and bat for GOI on this matter and show the mirror to these letter writers.

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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Postby putnanja » 23 Nov 2020 15:20

Surat to make fabric for uniforms of tri-services

Surat’s textile industry receives orders to manufacture 10 lakh metre of fabric for uniforms of Army, Navy and Air Force; delivery to be done by Jan 2021. Till now the fabrics were imported from China, Korea and Taiwan.

...


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