OFB, MoD Companies: News & Discussion

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ramana
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by ramana »

Not only that, the EEL folks won on technical merit of the timer for the grenade a fact ot being mentioned in above article. If OFB had made the fuze to the spec they would have raised a stink on awarding the contract to the provate industry.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by ramana »

The idea of a Multimode grenade with a screw-on fragmentation cylinder is German innovation I had seen in the 1970s book on modern weapons. And thanks to the entire arms procurement MoD, MoDP, DRDO, and OFB all failed for 50 years.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by ramana »

Also OFB fooled AK Anthony in 2014 by laying out a Bofors and pretended he was inagurating a Dhansuh factory. For this the top echelons of OFB should be fired and the pension for those who retired should be cancelled.
You dont fool a minster for his is a representative of the people.

https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/me ... cid/212141
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by darshan »

ramana wrote: For this the top echelons of OFB should be fired and the pension for those who retired should be cancelled.
Only an honest person would be scared to loose his pension and honor for being fired. Such a person would have never fooled Indian public like that and would have rather turned in a resignation.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by LakshmanPST »



Some comments on OFB... Sharing it here... Take it FWIW...
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by amitdb »

ramana wrote: You dont fool a minster for his is a representative of the people.
Below article brings out some more of such unfathomable rot within the OFB.

https://tfipost.com/2020/09/the-ordnanc ... reat-move/
As per reports, the employees of Ordnance Factories have called for indefinite strike from October 12 against the finance minister’s announcement of the corporatisation of Ordnance Factory Board (OFB). Headquartered in Kolkata, OFB is said to be among the oldest and most inefficient organizations in the world. A white elephant of the Nehruvian economy, it employs more than 80,000 people in 41 ordnance factories, 13 ordnance R&D centres, and nine ordnance institutes of learning.

The allies of India like Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Maldives, Myanmar are forced to purchase defence equipment from enemy countries like China due to inefficiency of India’s state-owned producers. These countries are defence allies of India but they purchase defence equipment from China because Indian companies are not able to meet their demand, and how would they? These companies cannot meet the demand of Indian armed forces and if our domestic forces are not willing to use equipment manufactured by OFB and HAL, why would any foreign country go for them. Wow, these suckers have been shooting down our defence diplomacy efforts as well.

Apart from the purchase of the rotten equipment worth around 14,000 crore rupees, the Ministry of Defence also gives around 700 crore rupees to the Ordnance Factory Board to subsidize their losses from the overall operation. Similarly, HAL continues to have a red balance sheet despite the purchase of its inefficient equipment by the armed forces. Successive CAG reports have criticized the OFB for its inefficiencies.

As per the report, Ordnance factories achieved production targets only for 49 percent of items and expenditure on human resources constituted 33 percent of budget compared to 20 percent on average for private companies. And, the audacity of the OFB employees is such that they are ready to protest despite bagging 33 percent of expenditure and making OFB bankrupt while supplying sub-standard products to Armed forces.

Work-in-progress (unfinished items lying on the shop floor) constituted 32 percent of the inventory. Orders as old as year 2009-10 were yet to be delivered, a delay of 10 years. Apple graduated from iphone 4 to iphone 11 within this period and here we are still in a primitive state of functioning.” wrote Rajan Kochhar, retired Major General, in Economic Times, on Ordnance Factories.

As per the CAG report, the inefficiency of Ordnance Factories adversely affects the preparedness of Indian Armed Forces at a time when the country faces the threat of a two-front war. “A significant quantity of Army’s demand for some principal ammunition items remained outstanding as on 31 March 2018, thus adversely affecting their operational preparedness. In addition, the exports by OFB decreased by 39 per cent in 2017-18 over 2016-17,” the CAG report said.
I sincerely hope GOI doesn't give in to these leeches. But its also very worrying that the enemy is at the border and the campaigning season is just around the corner, and these commies are calling strikes. Tell me if this isn't a deshdroh then what is? I'm sure there will be some natsec law or something that GOI can whip up to spank these commie unions with.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by Cyrano »

Unfortunately OFB's location is WB will become a real headache. We can expect Didi to do her bit to prevent dispute resolution with the OFB Union leaders to get back at Modi/BJP.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by nam »

There will not major reforms at OFB. Changing corporate structure will not make any difference. They will just increase the number of managerial positions and will ask GoI to invest more in the name of "modernization".

OFB is a lovely gravy train. Someone needs to look at the list of suppliers and figure how many are relatives of existing officers or ex-officers. At the political and babu level, TOT to OFB is a great business. Make a TOT deal, to show as local production. Take kickbacks using the higher cost because of TOT. Annual cut from the royalty payments.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by Aditya G »

Sandeep U's article in India Today lays out the end state of the ordnance corporations.

5 companies will be created.

Image

IMHO once these are created, the next step should be merge the counterpart lab from DRDO with the factory as well. So CVRDE can be merged with Corporation 2 for example.

Another idea would be to let BEML takeover the Corporation 4 directly.
ramana
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by ramana »

Not merge but attach the corresponding DRDO lab.
Reason is DRDO is supporting private mfg also and merger would cut that resource.
Lets see about BEML for they were ready to threaten an Army Chief to buy more Tatra trucks. And an earthmover company hardly is capable of armored vehicles
Maybe the chassis.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by ashbhee »

All the workers who go on strike on 12th should be fired. That is one way to trim the workforce.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by yensoy »

Instead of breaking it up by verticals, it should be broken up into 3 or 4 units which combine the relevant technologies. For instance, what's the point with Corporation 1 making the shells and Corporation 2 making the guns? In the event of malfunction, there will be more finger pointing. The corporation which makes some gun (say the Bofors) should also have the factory that produces its shells. The Bofors line could be given to one; the BMP line to the other etc. That would be a more sensible division IMHO.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by srin »

yensoy wrote:Instead of breaking it up by verticals, it should be broken up into 3 or 4 units which combine the relevant technologies. For instance, what's the point with Corporation 1 making the shells and Corporation 2 making the guns? In the event of malfunction, there will be more finger pointing. The corporation which makes some gun (say the Bofors) should also have the factory that produces its shells. The Bofors line could be given to one; the BMP line to the other etc. That would be a more sensible division IMHO.
Why not ?
From a production point of view, what economies of scale or advantage does making guns provide for making shells ? I'd guess the competency and machinery and volumes required (metallurgy vs explosive handling) are different.

Let they become different companies. As long as the army has the ability to have an open tender for the shells with all desi players and OFB and there is a fair competition, it should be fine.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by srin »

Issue with OFB is that while we and military look upon them for the defense of the country, the netas and unions and babus look upon them as job guarantee scheme at lower level and free perk scheme at higher levels.
I'm kinda sad that GoI is stopping at corporatization. I want to see real privatization. And real competition to grow out of the cost-plus model of pricing.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by nachiket »

srin wrote:Issue with OFB is that while we and military look upon them for the defense of the country, the netas and unions and babus look upon them as job guarantee scheme at lower level and free perk scheme at higher levels.
I'm kinda sad that GoI is stopping at corporatization. I want to see real privatization. And real competition to grow out of the cost-plus model of pricing.
It is difficult to privatize OFB without breaking it down first into individual corporate entities. Once that is done, privatizing individual units would be easier. Mosre private players will have the financial ability to bid for smaller units than the whole behemoth. Also looking at the amount of opposition to corporatization itself there would be several times that against privatization. That can be managed easier when you are doing it piecemeal, one or two units at a time. OFB is a colonial relic. It needs to be dealt with using the colonial "divide and rule" policy.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by ashbhee »

The strike should be used as an opportunity to get rid of he excess staff before privatization. Just fire all the workers who strike when we are facing a possibility of two front war.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by srin »

The strike actually makes a good case for fixing the OFB problem and may even energize the govt to do so. The irony seems to be lost on the trade unions.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by amitdb »

Criticizing the BJP ruled GOI on matters relating to anything and everything under the sun is the congress's way of staying relevant in indian polity these days, and for them it simply doesn't matter even if that criticism is borderline anti-india in nature. Here's a fresh example of just that from congress's so called 'intellectual' torch-bearers..

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... ies-152811
In the first joint statement, Ghulam Nabi Azad, Anand Sharma, Vivek Tankha, Kapil Sibal, Manish Tewari and Shashi Tharoor, prominent members of the Congress ginger group, also said changes in the Defence Offset Policy and Transfer of technology were a matter of serious concern and must be reversed. This is the first time the Congress letter writers have issued any joint statement, independent of party platforms, on government policy.

The statement describes proposed privatisation of the 41 Ordnance Factories, changes in the FDI Policy and dilution of the Defence Offsets Policy, including dispensing with the condition of Transfer of Technology in acquisition of weapons and equipment for the armed forces, as “deeply disturbing”, saying the decisions “compromise national security interests and will have long term implications for India’s defence preparedness and in becoming a self-reliant nation”.

“These decisions are also in conflict with the Government’s Make in India campaign,” they noted mentioning how 70,000 employees of all 41 Ordnance Factories across India are on a month-long strike in protest against “Corporatisation” of the Ordnance Factory Board.

The Congress leaders cited the “failed” example of Privatisation of Royal Ordnance Factories in Britain and said, “This comparison is relevant considering the fact that the Indian Ordnance Factories originate and are successors of the Royal Ordnance Factories.” (It turned out bad for gora saab so it'll naturally be bad for us as well. wah re logic)

They said the OFB is accountable to the people through Parliament and also CAG.

The Government’s must explain in what way the OFB has failed in transparency and accountability in a democratic system with check and balances, they noted, adding that handing over these factories and assets to private sector is bereft of justification and against India’s national interest. (god only knows, why and how?)
Letter seems to be full of unsubstantiated statements with absolutely no sincere efforts to reason the criticism, though it's a different matter that sincerity and reasoning are the last things one expects from congress considering how they conduct there business these days.
Anyways, such a stand is not at all surprising considering the fact that OFB and numerous such orgs are after all the byproducts of chacha ji's socialist economy.

I just hope more folks from military and defence circles will come out and bat for GOI on this matter and show the mirror to these letter writers.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by putnanja »

Surat to make fabric for uniforms of tri-services
Surat’s textile industry receives orders to manufacture 10 lakh metre of fabric for uniforms of Army, Navy and Air Force; delivery to be done by Jan 2021. Till now the fabrics were imported from China, Korea and Taiwan.

...
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by Pratyush »

OFB Unions proposal to GOI

OFB employees pitch restructuring over corporatisation to hit Rs 30,000 crore target


PS posting on phone don't know how to create url tag.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by jaysimha »

OFB to export cartridge bullets for US civilian market
November 10, 2020
"The OFB has received an export order to supply 5.56*45 mm NATO MI93 Ball ammunition to USA. The ammunition will be manufactured by Ordnance Factory Varasgaon and will be supplied in the current financial year," the OFB said in a tweet.

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... t-7046691/
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by jaysimha »

Thakur_B
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by Thakur_B »

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 53716.html

OFB breakup and corporatisation approved.
ramana
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by ramana »

Cyrano
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by Cyrano »

Rajnath Singh has started to do highly visible changes. Good for the country.

Each of these 7 new companies must be named "Hindustan XYZ" like HAL. (Since BharatRakshak is already taken :))
Changes will go far beyond, with leadership structure, focus areas and performance evaluation, revamping employee base and so on.

But naming them right is very important for the mission. And all those who oppose will unmask themselves.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by ramana »

Basically, the OFB is being turned into 7 DPSUs.
Now to align DRDO labs to these DPSUs.
DRDO labs can do basic research and work with the DPSU R&D teams for product development.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by prahaar »

It would be ideal to make an end to end value chain, connecting the production (each of the OFB DPSUs) with DRDO Labs, academic research and institutions, MSME clusters. Each of these value chains with at least one Center of Excellence with Armed Forces liaisons to provide "market input".

Something on the lines of DRDO<->ACADEMIA<->MSME<->OFB-DPSU<->AFs, preferably with geographical proximity to facilitate close interworking. The three step process of RESEARCH-PRODUCTION-CUSTOMER forming a circle not a linear process as it is currently, is crucial. CUSTOMER can drive the RESEARCH and PRODUCTION by converting the line into a circle.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by Cyrano »

DRDO labs can do basic research and work with the DPSU R&D teams for product development.
Ramana garu, very sensible idea per se. But the background, competencies and work culture of DRDO and DPSUs is vastly different.

Besides, DRDO does varying levels of basic research and a lot of applied research and product development today. Often these are indistinguishable and done by the same teams which move from on to the other over time. This is especially true in IGMDP, ATV etc. type long gestation programs. Various branches of DRDO like DLRL, DMRL, RCI, ARDE, CEMILAC and dozens of others work differently depending on the technology maturity and need (invent and make vs make + buy and integrate).

A more workable and efficient model would be to use a part of DRDO (with can vary depending on which entity/lab we are talking about) and "R&D" capabilities of DPSUs to trail and productionize with some involvement from the end user. Like how DRDO works with BDL for example.

The last thing we want is this realignment impacting the timelines of ongoing programs or worse, lead to discontent and consequent loss of skilled people.

I'm saying this based on conversations with close folks who work in some of these organisations.

Perhaps you and other members who have been in or worked with DRDO entities could care to comment.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by durairaaj »

Thakur_B wrote:https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 53716.html

OFB breakup and corporatisation approved.
ramana wrote:...
I think this news, should go to good governance thread and Modi 2.0 achievement thread.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

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srai
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by srai »

ramana wrote:Basically, the OFB is being turned into 7 DPSUs.
Now to align DRDO labs to these DPSUs.
DRDO labs can do basic research and work with the DPSU R&D teams for product development.
DRDO 7 Clusters
  1. aeronautical systems (Aero);
  2. electronics and communications systems (ECS);
  3. missiles and strategic systems (MSS);
  4. naval systems and materials (NS&M);
  5. armament and combat engineering (ACE);
  6. life sciences (LS); and
  7. micro-electronic devices and computational systems (MED & CoS
OFB 7 DPSU Groups
  1. Ammunition and Explosives group
  2. Vehicles group
  3. Weapons & Equipment group
  4. Troop Comfort Items group
  5. Ancillary group
  6. Opto-Electronics group
  7. Parachute group
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by srai »

Thakur_B wrote:https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 53716.html

OFB breakup and corporatisation approved.

First step cuts it down to manageable sizes. Less resistance possibly as employee package remains untouched for 2-years. Then subsequent steps likely will be divestment and privatization of each of the 7 groups. Smaller workforce groups easier to deal with.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by Pratyush »

If the OFB successor entities can be turned into agile business companies. Then privatization might not be required. The but this is in the future.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by durairaaj »

srai wrote:
Thakur_B wrote:...OFB breakup and corporatisation approved.
First step cuts it down to manageable sizes. Less resistance possibly as employee package remains untouched for 2-years. Then subsequent steps likely will be divestment and privatization of each of the 7 groups. Smaller workforce groups easier to deal with.
Another step in the right direcion would be hiring more ex-service men. This will limit the number of workmen, who have no experience with service life. Also, such workforce demography change could reduce the unionization problem that all OFB companies face and decrease the pension burden the armed forces face.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by ramana »

No jokers from Army trials groups.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by ramana »

Bana they will become DPSUs.
Other than L&T can't trust one private guy to do real work. All are graduates of 15% profit mantra of the Congress raj.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by darshhan »

ramana wrote:No jokers from Army trials groups.
Lol. True villains these guys. I wonder how their own family members tolerate them. Probably the most frustrated and repressed bunch on this planet.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by chetak »

Center Brings Ordinance Prohibiting Strikes By Ordnance Factory Workers After Threat Of Agitation Against Corporatisation https://swarajyamag.com/insta/center-br ... ratisation
via @swarajyamag


The Narendra Modi government has passed an ordinance on Wednesday (30 June) prohibiting strikes by those engaged in essential defence services.

The move comes after the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) threatened to go on an indefinite strike to protest against the government's move to corporatise the 246-year-old organisation.

Federations and unions representing about 80,000 employees of the OFB have decided to start the agitation against corporatisation on July 26.

Last month, the Union cabinet has cleared the proposal to restructure the OFB into seven separate corporate entities on the lines of the nine existing defence public sector undertakings (DPSUs) in the country.

Under this plan, the 41 units currently functional under the OFB will be subsumed under one or the other of the seven new companies.

Each of the seven entities that will emerge will be responsible for a separate sector — ammunition and explosives, vehicles, weapons and equipment, troop comfort items, opto-electronics gear, parachutes and ancillary products.

In 2019, when the government announced its proposal to corporatise the OFB, the organisation had used strikes to scuttle the plan.

In July last year, at the peak of the crisis in eastern Ladakh, three employees’ federations of the OFB were threatening to go on an indefinite strike. The proposed strike was called off only in October, over a month after they were proposed.

The ordinance issued by the government on 30 June will be replaced by a bill in the monsoon session of Parliament this year.
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by Maria »

chetak wrote:
Center Brings Ordinance Prohibiting Strikes By Ordnance Factory Workers After Threat Of Agitation Against Corporatisation https://swarajyamag.com/insta/center-br ... ratisation
via @swarajyamag


The Narendra Modi government has passed an ordinance on Wednesday (30 June) prohibiting strikes by those engaged in essential defence services.

The move comes after the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) threatened to go on an indefinite strike to protest against the government's move to corporatise the 246-year-old organisation.

Federations and unions representing about 80,000 employees of the OFB have decided to start the agitation against corporatisation on July 26.

Last month, the Union cabinet has cleared the proposal to restructure the OFB into seven separate corporate entities on the lines of the nine existing defence public sector undertakings (DPSUs) in the country.

Under this plan, the 41 units currently functional under the OFB will be subsumed under one or the other of the seven new companies.

Each of the seven entities that will emerge will be responsible for a separate sector — ammunition and explosives, vehicles, weapons and equipment, troop comfort items, opto-electronics gear, parachutes and ancillary products.

In 2019, when the government announced its proposal to corporatise the OFB, the organisation had used strikes to scuttle the plan.

In July last year, at the peak of the crisis in eastern Ladakh, three employees’ federations of the OFB were threatening to go on an indefinite strike. The proposed strike was called off only in October, over a month after they were proposed.

The ordinance issued by the government on 30 June will be replaced by a bill in the monsoon session of Parliament this year.

This is awesome however when they strike, thousands of them do so - how will the GoI enforce this? There's no real mention of what the punitive actions would be for the strikers. How would you pick up thousands and haul them in jail(s)?
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Re: OFB, MoD Companies Discussion Thread

Post by sankum »

Its simple , you have to dismiss the leaders and violent employees enforcing the strike from jobs and take the rest to factories to work by the police. The strike will be over in no time. These overpaid and low productive employees can never get work of same nature in open market. This has been done before to break strikes in government establishments.
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