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Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 16 Jul 2017 07:30

Project-15A Kolkata Class Destroyers
http://tejasmrca.weebly.com/naval-syste ... destroyers

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 16 Jul 2017 08:20

Rakesh wrote:Project-15A Kolkata Class Destroyers
http://tejasmrca.weebly.com/naval-syste ... destroyers


Good Find Rakesh , one of the best write-up on P-15A that I have come across

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby sum » 16 Jul 2017 08:44

Agree.

Superb writeup

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karthik S » 16 Jul 2017 08:56

As mentioned in the article about available space, in MLU, hopefully we'll add more Baraks if not BrahMos.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby KrishnaK » 17 Jul 2017 05:31

Rakesh wrote:Indian Navy wants its only fighter aircraft to toughen up
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/indi ... 03125.html


Serviceability of the warplanes was low, ranging from 15.93 per cent to 37.63 per cent and that of MiG-29KUB ranging from 21.30 per cent to 47.14 per cent.
:(

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 17 Jul 2017 10:42

INS Kalvari gears up to strengthen Navy power

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 623296.cms

Pune: INS Kalvari, the first of the six Scorpene-class submarines being built at Mazagon dock in Mumbai, is likely to be handed over to the Indian Navy next month.

"We are aiming to hand over the submarine to the Navy next month as all the trials have been conducted successfully. The date of the commissioning is yet to be finalised," Commodore Rakesh Anand (retd), chairman & managing director of Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited (MDSL), told TOI here.

He avoided getting into the specifics about the trial results. "The Navy has done an analysis of each trial and we can't comment on it," said Anand.

MDSL, a part of the defence ministry's department of defence production, has been building Scorpene-class submarines under project 75 with transfer of technology from French collaborator DCNS.

A senior MDSL official, who did not wish to be identified, said, "Naval authorities will confirm the date of the commissioning ceremony in the next few weeks. All crucial trials, including test-firings of torpedo, have achieved the desired results. Currently, testing of certain on-board systems is on at the dock and it will be over in the next few days. We are in the process of handing over the submarine to the Navy mostly in the second week of August."

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 17 Jul 2017 10:43

India-US-Japan's Malabar naval exercise is a message gift-wrapped for China

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/mala ... 03675.html
The F/A-18 super hornet fighter jets line up along the 4.5-acre flight deck of the 98,000-tonne displacement US navy aircraft carrier USS Nimitz in the Bay of Bengal.

The ship is sailing about a hundred nautical miles off the coast of Chennai. One after the other, a dozen aircraft are catapulted into the sky in under two minutes each. The aim is to dominate the skies as the P-8 A and P 8 I Poseidon aircraft of the US and Indian navies carry out long-range maritime reconnaissance and antisubmarine warfare operations to dominate the seas. 21 ships, including two submarines and over 100 aircraft and helicopters of the US, Japan and Indian navies are currently carrying out the most complex naval exercise in the Bay of Bengal in an aim to hunt down enemy submarines.

"This is the most complex exercise undertaken by the three navies together. INS Vikramaditya, India's aircraft carrier with its MiG-29 K aircraft and P 8 I reconnaissance aircraft are participating in this exercise for the first time. The Japanese maritime defence force has also sent its most potent weapon platform JS Izumo with nine anti-submarine warfare helicopters for the first time.

EXERCISE A MESSAGE TO BELLIGERENT CHINA

"The US Navy has this aircraft carrier, LA class submarine, destroyers and cruisers, fighter aircraft, helicopters and P 8 A for joint submarine hunting and sea domination exercise,'' says a top officer participating as an observer.

Though on record officers of the three countries insist the operations are all about interoperability and jointmanship to work together from humanitarian aid disaster relief to anti-piracy, scratch beneath the surface they admit the exercise is an attempt to send out a signal to an increasingly belligerent China.

The aim is to checkmate China. "The exercise is designed to advance military to military coordination and capacity to plan and execute tactical operations in multinational environment. There is a live firing gunnery exercises, helicopter cross deck operations and anti submarine warfare,'' says Rear Admiral William Byrne, Commander of the US Carrier Strike Group.


CHINESE SUBMARINES LURKING IN INDIAN OCEAN


The message, to China, he insists is the same as to the rest of the world and that is to follow international norms. The Indian Navy is in the market hunting for anti-submarine warfare helicopters and on display are the capabilities of the MH 60 R ASW helicopters.

The Chinese navy submarines are increasingly lurking in the Indian ocean region. "We need better technology and more platforms to keep up with the Dragon's every increasing footprint. This exercise is a step in the right direction,'' he adds. As the navies refine their interoperability, the message is not lost. Today the three powerful maritime forces are operating in the Indian ocean region. Tomorrow, if required the three navies along with their allies can also operate across the high seas - from north Arabian Sea to the South China sea.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karthik S » 17 Jul 2017 11:19

Austin wrote:INS Kalvari gears up to strengthen Navy power

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 623296.cms

Pune: INS Kalvari, the first of the six Scorpene-class submarines being built at Mazagon dock in Mumbai, is likely to be handed over to the Indian Navy next month.

"We are aiming to hand over the submarine to the Navy next month as all the trials have been conducted successfully. The date of the commissioning is yet to be finalised," Commodore Rakesh Anand (retd), chairman & managing director of Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited (MDSL), told TOI here.

He avoided getting into the specifics about the trial results. "The Navy has done an analysis of each trial and we can't comment on it," said Anand.

MDSL, a part of the defence ministry's department of defence production, has been building Scorpene-class submarines under project 75 with transfer of technology from French collaborator DCNS.

A senior MDSL official, who did not wish to be identified, said, "Naval authorities will confirm the date of the commissioning ceremony in the next few weeks. All crucial trials, including test-firings of torpedo, have achieved the desired results. Currently, testing of certain on-board systems is on at the dock and it will be over in the next few days. We are in the process of handing over the submarine to the Navy mostly in the second week of August."


Finally, IIRC INS Khanderi, the second sub will also be commissioned later this year.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 17 Jul 2017 12:00

Good news. There was a report late June that the deal for around 100 Balck Shark Whitehead torpedoes might be revived after the MOD sought legal
advice.Modifying the entire fleet of Scorpenes to fire another type would lead to serious delays,extra costs,etc. Since the OEM is only part of the group and not AW,blacklisted after the VVIP helo scandal,with no taint attached,one hopes that in the interests of the IN the deal goes through asap.There was another report earlier which said that the deal was also essential for the ATV series too,the torpedo appears to have been selected for that project,but since it is highly classified,one will have to wait for some official news.

Meanwhile Russia has developed anew mean missile corvette under 1000t of which it is building 18,for coastal defence.These vessels will be armed with LRCM Kalibir missiles ASW and anti-air weaponry too.Since we too plan a new class of missile corvette to replace the Tarantulas and out coastal ASW corvettes of 700+ t,this design is worth taking a dekko at. Our missiLE corvettes will definitely in the future be tasked to do duty in the A&n theatre and the IN will need a large number for the Arabian Sea in particular too,base dout of our forward naval bases in Gujarat.WE earlier had the 750t Nanuckka class for the same purpose,which have all been retired,one used a s a target for a BMos test.

http://www.pravdareport.com/russia/econ ... _russia-0/
Xcpts:
Russia builds small missile ships of Karakurt project at the Zelenodolsk plant named after A.M. Gorky. The Russian Navy plans to receive 18 of such ships. The new ships are said to surpass their predecessors in their combat power and seaworthiness. They are believed to become the new formidable weapon to strengthen Russia's maritime borders and enhance the presence of the Russian Federation in the Mediterranean Sea.

The ships are named "Karakurt" after a species of spiders from the genus of black widows, whose bite can be lethal to animals and humans. The new ships, 60 meters long and ten meters wide, can travel at 30 knots and remain in autonomous navigation up to 15 days.
In the future, Karakurt ships will comprise a powerful group of missile ships. Their production takes about a year and costs less than the assembly of destroyers and cruisers, and they are slightly inferior to the latter in their combat capabilities.

"Yes, they are small class ships with a displacement of less than a thousand tons. At the same time, they carry powerful missile high-precision weapons: the Caliber-NK systems, which can be loaded with long-range cruise missiles. We've seen the system in action in Syria. A Karakurt ship can also carry tactical anti-ship missiles and anti-submarine weapons. This is a universal complex, but with an emphasis put on capabilities of long-range impact. Plus the ship carries antiaircraft weapons for self-defense, as well as air attack weapons and artillery weapons. This ship is, of course, for the near maritime zone, that is, it is not intended for ocean voyage. It is being built on several shipyards at once, including in the Crimea."

Pravda.Ru

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chola » 17 Jul 2017 15:05

^^^ Hawking Russki maal again while the MiG-29 lemons are causing the Navy fits?! Have them fix those first!

Hmmm, you sound like you are on the payroll of Rosoboronexport. Maybe you can really help. Filipov, please ask your boss to fix the MiG-29K so the damn thing doesn't need to be re-calibrated after each landing.
Last edited by Indranil on 17 Jul 2017 20:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby brar_w » 17 Jul 2017 15:10

From LiveFist and US Pacific Fleet -

Image

Image

Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Vips » 17 Jul 2017 19:18

Indian Navy wants its only fighter aircraft to toughen up.

The Indian Navy's only fighter aircraft MiG-29K continues to face problems as the maritime force feels that the fighter jet needs to be further ruggedised for carrying out operations from aircraft carriers which is supposed to be its main role.

"The plane needs to be ruggedised further as very frequently after landings, the settings of the plane change and they have to be re-set," sources in the Navy told Mail Today.

The Navy operates the MiG-29Ks from its Goa air base as well as the aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya and after the phasing out of the Sea Harrier planes, it is now the only fighter aircraft left with the Navy.

The Indian side has taken up the matter with the Russians who have already sent their technical teams to look into the problems and find a solution for it, as the aircraft are still in warranty period.

"The issue has been taken up with the Russians at the senior level as India and Russia discuss their military ties and issues at multiple forums including the level of the heads of states," the source said.

Naval fighter aircraft need to be very tough as they virtually crash on the aircraft carrier's deck and have to maintain high speeds to be ready to take off in case they fail to hook to the arrester wire on the warship. The fighter plane, which is operated only by India has faced operational deficiencies for a long time due to defects in engines, airframe and fly-by-wire system leading to very low availability for operations as this was pointed out by the Comptroller and Auditor General (GAG) in its report last year.

"The MiG-29K, which is a carrier-borne multi-role aircraft and the mainstay of integral fleet air defence, is riddled with problems relating to airframe, RD MK-33 engine and fly-bywire system," the CAG said.

Serviceability of the warplanes was low, ranging from 15.93 per cent to 37.63 per cent and that of MiG-29KUB ranging from 21.30 per cent to 47.14 per cent. Serviceability refers to the total number aircraft available for operation at a time from the overall capacity. The auditor had also noted that the service life of the aircraft is 6000 hours or 25 years (whichever is earlier) and with issues facing the MiG-29K/KUB, the operational life of the aircraft already delivered would be reduced. India ordered 45 MiG-29K aircraft and equipment worth `10,000 crore in two separate orders - in 2004 and 2010 - from Russia.

It is the primary combat platform on INS Viramaditya - country's only operational aircraft carrier inducted in 2014. The MiG-29K aircraft are also expected to serve on the homemade aircraft carrier INS Vikrant, which is still under construction and not expected to be inducted into service before the year 2023.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 17 Jul 2017 19:25

^^^^

RAFALE IN ANGER: 10 Dispatches From A War Cockpit
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/07 ... ckpit.html

Crews maintaining the jets on the carrier told Livefist that the two squadrons at sea enjoy a 97% availability rate (as opposed to 70% rate on shore).

More MiG-29Ks anyone? :D

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby brar_w » 17 Jul 2017 19:46

Maintaining aircraft ready on a carrier shouldn't be hard for most users depending upon length and intensity of deployments. It is the overall fleet health that is at question here..You tier readiness and surge to make sure that those at the tip of the spear get all that is required.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Indranil » 17 Jul 2017 19:48

^^^ At what cost?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 17 Jul 2017 19:49

brar, in all honesty, I am surprised at the number Shiv Aroor has put out. There was an earlier report of the Rafale M having a serviceability rate of only 44%. So I was taken back by the 97% number. I do not believe it is true.

The only reason I highlighted is because anything is better than the MiG-29K's serviceability rate.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Cain Marko » 17 Jul 2017 19:51

↑I'm guessing this sounds like a supply chain issue otherwise trainers ought not to have higher uptimes. Do note for the price paid for 45 fulcrums, India would have probably received half a dozen rafales :D .

Seems to be a similar issue with nki too. Would love to see service contracts signed between Russia and HAL. afaik no other airforce that operatesv the mki such as the rmaf is complaining.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karthik S » 17 Jul 2017 19:58

I always assumed carrier borne fighters will have lower service rate than those over land because of the humid conditions(hot as well if near the equator) former operate in.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby brar_w » 17 Jul 2017 20:00

Indranil wrote:^^^ At what cost?


You would have to go into their budgets to see their O&S cost for the Rafale-M fleet. But if you are deploying on an operational tour or have a set training objective you would aim to making sure that those squadrons are well supplied in terms of resources to maintain the required ops tempo, but also from a training perspective leading up to a deployment. At red-flag many international participants including the IAF maintain rates in excess of 90% with few mission aborts on account of aircraft lack of availability..this is not indicative of their overall availability at the fleet level just that they have surged resources to make sure the deployment objectives are met.

Overall fleet availability depends upon a host of factors, component availability ($$), depot capacity ($$), squadron manpower resources ($$), and of course aircraft and aircraft component reliability. Any of these or a combination could result in lower readiness.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 17 Jul 2017 20:06

Karthik S wrote:I always assumed carrier borne fighters will have lower service rate than those over land because of the humid conditions(hot as well if near the equator) former operate in.

You are correct. Sea water does quite a number on airframes.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Indranil » 17 Jul 2017 20:14

brar_w wrote:
Indranil wrote:^^^ At what cost?


You would have to go into their budgets to see their O&S cost for the Rafale-M fleet. But if you are deploying on an operational tour or have a set training objective you would aim to making sure that those squadrons are well supplied in terms of resources to maintain the required ops tempo, but also from a training perspective leading up to a deployment. At red-flag many international participants including the IAF maintain rates in excess of 90% with few mission aborts on account of aircraft lack of availability..this is not indicative of their overall availability at the fleet level just that they have surged resources to make sure the deployment objectives are met.

Overall fleet availability depends upon a host of factors, component availability ($$), depot capacity ($$), squadron manpower resources ($$), and of course aircraft and aircraft component reliability. Any of these or a combination could result in lower readiness.

I think we had this discussion before and we agreed that cost is secondary to availability in operations. Also, people are ready to pay higher costs for more readiness on the ship borne aircraft because there are so few of them at hand. I have no objections to that. Mig-29Ks availability during the Malabar exercise must also have been much higher than the average of the past year. That is not what I am contending.

I am contending that Rafale M's availability is not 97% in day-to-day operations. Either that, or they are not conducting day-to-day operations. Otherwise, others, including the US are doing a very shoddy job with their carrier borne aircraft.

P.S. My last post saying "at what cost?" was in response to Rakesh's post, not yours. You and I must be typing in parallel.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby brar_w » 17 Jul 2017 20:19

Indranil, the article cited clearly mentions that the 97% number was during a carrier deployment. It was not the ovreall rafale fleet availability. US Navy's strike fighter readiness woes are on account of them not addressing their depot capacity and throughput issues because they assumed they would not need to since they had assumed a SIGNIFICANT draw down in ops tempo post Iraq draw down of troops. This never really happened and they still find their carriers on extended deployments and conducting a lot many combat sorties than they had planned for. Politicians like buying aircraft so have constantly ignored this area and have continued to add more money to the budget for procurement since it means jobs for their constituency. Actual readiness infrastructure investment has only surged now with the current SecDef making it a priority.

two squadrons at sea enjoy a 97% availability rate

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 17 Jul 2017 20:25

Indranil: I agree with your assessment as well. The 97% is not true IMHO. Now if you asked "at what cost" in relation in the MiG-29K, even if we got additional planes for free...we should not touch that bird with a ten foot pole.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby brar_w » 17 Jul 2017 20:38

Rakesh, the number is believable if one considers that they are mentioning at sea. This means on deployment (operational or training etc etc) which typically is the highest priority in terms of resource commitment. Most navies will enjoy high availability when they deploy because this is what you want. Its sustaining that same rate fleet wide that is a major cost and logistical challenge.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Indranil » 17 Jul 2017 20:51

For one operation, it is believable, but unsustainable. In my eyes, quoting that number (and only that number) as the availability rate of Rafale M is marketing at best, and disingenuous at worst.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Bala Vignesh » 17 Jul 2017 20:52

Rakesh wrote:Indranil: I agree with your assessment as well. The 97% is not true IMHO. Now if you asked "at what cost" in relation in the MiG-29K, even if we got additional planes for free...we should not touch that bird with a ten foot pole.

Why not take those birds and use them as spares?? If we can get the information on 29K availability during Malabar, we can come to a conclusion if it's availability is an issue with logistics or design fault, I believe.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby brar_w » 17 Jul 2017 20:54

Yeah of course it is marketing but french carriers don't likely deploy on USN like long deployments so they can probably surge and sustain over the course given that they can reprogram resources to support the tiny fleet. It's one thing doing that with relatively new Rafale's, another doing that with classic hornet's that are due for, or just had their service life extended.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 17 Jul 2017 21:04

Bala Vignesh wrote:
Rakesh wrote:Indranil: I agree with your assessment as well. The 97% is not true IMHO. Now if you asked "at what cost" in relation in the MiG-29K, even if we got additional planes for free...we should not touch that bird with a ten foot pole.

Why not take those birds and use them as spares?? If we can get the information on 29K availability during Malabar, we can come to a conclusion if it's availability is an issue with logistics or design fault, I believe.

I am strong proponent of having detachments of all these birds housed at coastal bases like Jamnagar AFS, Karwar and Vizag. Protect the naval/strategic assets there. The MiG-29K was not designed for sustained carrier ops like the Super Hornet, Legacy Hornet or the Rafale M.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby brar_w » 17 Jul 2017 21:18

Why not take those birds and use them as spares?? If we can get the information on 29K availability during Malabar, we can come to a conclusion if it's availability is an issue with logistics or design fault, I believe.


There are two related issues that determine it. One is obviously the logistics and component availability but another is reliability. This has to be determined. Is the lack of availability solely due to component supply or is it due to a combination of lack of supply and lack of component reliability as in you are using up parts faster than what you thought or what was expected. If it is the latter then you have to work with the OEM to improve those areas or just live with a higher O&S cost which may come in terms of shortfalls in other sustainability metrics such as the logistical footprint, MTBF rates etc etc .

Either way you will need many cycles and training or patrol deployments to build up a sizable volume of data on each of your critical components. The small global fleet size and two different deployment patterns would mean that this process of customer/operator feedback making it back into a logistical deal or component improvement will take time.The IN was the first service to sign up for (iirc) a carrier borne MiG-29. There will be a curve that is associated with that. As a benchmark, the US DOD considers an aircraft such as a fighter as mature at 100,000 cumulative type fleet hours. This as per their experience gives enough time to do that process improvement component update etc so that the type system can be considered as mature.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Khalsa » 18 Jul 2017 01:24

Rakesh wrote:Project-15A Kolkata Class Destroyers
http://tejasmrca.weebly.com/naval-syste ... destroyers



Admiral, you writing for these folks ?
My admirations by the way, for all these articles coming from them.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 18 Jul 2017 01:27

No Saar. I don't know who wrote them, but well written.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby hanumadu » 18 Jul 2017 05:52

From twitter. Supposedly our 2nd SSBN. Looking for further confirmation meanwhile....

Noor Alam‏
@Nexoft000
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RT! #Exclusive First Satellite Image of INS Aridhaman, India's second SSBN for nuclear triad! Sweet!



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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 18 Jul 2017 08:18

STOP POSTING INFO ON INDIAN SSBNs. EVEN IF IS OPEN SOURCE. THESE ARE STRATEGIC ASSETS FOR A REASON.

Sorry, for the ALL CAPS. I am not screaming, but you need to edit your post. I am flagging it for admin intervention.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby arshyam » 18 Jul 2017 08:38

Fully seconded. What's this tendency to show our assets in public? Let's show Chinese assets instead.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 18 Jul 2017 08:42

arshyam, I am all for showing off assets....just not THESE assets. Nuke assets are off limits on BRF.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Singha » 18 Jul 2017 08:44

in this case I disagree. the SBC is well versed in what to keep secret after years of Arihant project.

if the roof is retracted, its for our sinic overlords to take a look and shiver in their mao suits. its a very deliberate move. they are well aware of exactly which sats overfly vizag at what times.

the pic seems to indicate 8 tubes as mentioned by sources earlier and one tube hatch seems to be open

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Manish_P » 18 Jul 2017 08:48

the settings of the plane change and have to be reset


What settings might these be ?

Singha
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Singha » 18 Jul 2017 08:57

^^ maybe the undercarriage has some adjustments that get reset under the force of impact.

like in MTB cycles there is a preload knob + - to adjust the stiffness of the shock absorbers from 100% free to 100% lockout.

that would be a hassle but not a deal killer. deal killer would be electronic items like radar and LRUs getting knocked about and damaged because they were not designed and tested for naval shock conditions. or fuel and hydraulic systems springing leaks.

Eric Leiderman
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Eric Leiderman » 18 Jul 2017 09:17


Karthik S
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karthik S » 18 Jul 2017 09:30



You can look at this to get an idea.


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