Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
tsarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2506
Joined: 08 May 2006 13:44
Location: mumbai

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby tsarkar » 21 Dec 2017 19:17

Karan M wrote:I wont even put up the specific redacted images from the data leak. It will give everyone severe depression and anger issues. Its a data breach of completely bizarre proportions. Radiated noise at specific speeds, detailed technical manuals of each and every weapons sensor system, list goes on and on and on.

This is a industry wide epidemic, even in the civil world.

In Indian & Global Technology Industry, an OEM & SI will build an ERP system for a manufacturing concern or payment hub for a bank, and these are covered under stringent NDA's, but the software developer will put the highly confidential solution architecture on his CV and share it with head hunters / job agencies / LinkedIn. Needless to say, solution architectures out in the open exposes the manufacturing concern/bank to hacking/ransonware.

Also, in civil or military world, the Designer/Manufacturer takes his latest development (ERP system/Scorpene/Su-30MKX) to his next prospective customer despite NDA/Confidentiality Clauses with the previous customer.

NDA/Confidentiality Clauses are flouted by Corporations claiming to be India's/World's most ethical company, etc.

vasu raya
BRFite
Posts: 1599
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby vasu raya » 21 Dec 2017 19:54

The silver lining is MDL builds them, so they have an idea about any equipment that could be replaced

John
BRFite
Posts: 1792
Joined: 03 Feb 2001 12:31

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby John » 21 Dec 2017 23:11

srai wrote:^^^
It got released by a reporter and became known worldwide even to the general public. Otherwise all these info would be in the secret hands of American, European and their close allies. Time to stop importing.

I remember reading a story long time ago about how the British got the French to reveal information on how to counter the Exocet during the Falklands War. All hush-hush of course.

It's basically an open secret. If you import, then don't fight that country and its allies. They will know classified specs. You won't win using those imported weaponary.

What is most puzzling is we had access to U-209 blue print (which is considered one of best post cold war diesel submarine designs) and could have continued building it and improving on it.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19592
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 21 Dec 2017 23:14

Sub tech is the most difficult to master.We are being assisted principally by Russia , but have a long way to go having built only "4" conv. boats thus far.I

dinesh_kimar
BRFite
Posts: 249
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby dinesh_kimar » 22 Dec 2017 00:03

What is most puzzling is we had access to U-209 blue print (which is considered one of best post cold war diesel submarine designs) and could have continued building it and improving on it.


I read somewhere that the front hull shape / dynamics is patented by HDW and we cant copy it.

The Germans apparently trained us well, and we had good know-how in basic design of hull (lt., beam, calculations, etc.) and also welding, inspection and QA (dunno wat it means in this case), trim calculations, battery tech , sea testing, maintenance and overhaul. Ulrich Gabler personally trained the Submarine Design Group.

But no voice in India was heard demanding the following:

1. We will carefully preserve and continue the hard won know-how from Germany .
2. We will build 3 more local follow on subs with knowledge received, with a slightly different hull form designed by our people in NSTL, which wont get us in trouble legally.
3. Engines will be from Kirloskar (license MAN). Battery from Exide (lic. Varta) , prop shaft and block from HEC, Ranchi. it will not be perfect but we will use it. We understand that it will be noiser than the Type 209, and quieter than the Foxtrot flogged till 2006. This is a very acceptable trade off for us. We also understand that as our people get more sophisticated, the next iteration of submarines will be equivalent to Type-209.
4. Motors, control valves castings and forgings will be from local industry (some Mumbai based MSMEs are very good with this stuff). Rubber anechoic tiles from MRF, periscope from DRDO-IRST, welding tech from ISRO - CMTI.
5. Hatches and bulkheads will be from Flash Forge, Vishakapatnam.
6. Sonar and CMS will be from BEL, Bangalore.
7. Torpedo will be from BDL, Vishakapatnam, a localised Russian TEST 65 with NATO dimensions and imported electronics.
8. We will have a continuous improvement program, where the designers will document improvements to be piped in for the next batch of vessels.
9. BHEL will source a casting for the propeller, and machine it to spec.

If someone had said something like the above, we would have had 75 % localised submarines, worst case !.

[The next iteration would have brought us close to 90 % +. ]

Wat actually happened was MDL master welders resigned and went to Gulf, to weld the oil pipelines and make good money.

Even now, seeing the Scorpene mishandling by MDL (MDL "procured" items to show phony indigenisation, for eg., and long delays in submarine commissioning, when using the latest concurrent engineering technology to save lead time), I have little faith in anyone achieving the same level of competence as in Type-209.

S. Korea took the same approach and succeeded with Chango-Bongo (whatever !), their version of Type-209.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 63100
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Singha » 22 Dec 2017 01:22

dharmic thoughts saar, but the HDW scam was deftly engineered to make sure those thoughts were stillborn or murdered at infant stage
holier than VP Singhji was using such scams as a stick to bring down the former yuvaraj

just as the follow on of local bofors gun production was murdered...until dhanush rose like a phoenix from ashes.

anything that gives India real teeth vs adversaries is sought to be capped and rolled back. its easy to play off one formation against another in delhi, using the media for deft snipering and the howling ignorant mobs for the outrage

chola
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2684
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chola » 22 Dec 2017 01:31

S. Korea took the same approach and succeeded with Chango-Bongo (whatever !), their version of Type-209.


It really is named the Chango Bongo. But the numbers planned are huge! Eighteen for SoKo and another three for the Indonesian Navy. (The SoKorean MIC has literally exploded on the world’s export scene in the past few years with ships and planes sold everywhere.)

Now what are chances of us ever selling the Tiger Shark (Kalvari)?

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5703
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 22 Dec 2017 02:27

dinesh_kimar wrote:Ulrich Gabler personally trained the Submarine Design Group.

For folks who are wondering who Ulrich Gabler is --> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulrich_Gabler

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5703
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 22 Dec 2017 02:36

INS Kulish joins ANC
http://echoofindia.com/port-blair-ins-k ... anc-136624

INS Kulish, a Kora Class missile corvette with an array of missiles and guns has joined the Naval Component of the Andaman and Nicobar Command. The Ship was traditionally welcomed into the Andaman and Nicobar Flotilla on Wednesday at the Naval Jetty. INS Kulish is the third of the Kora Class missile corvettes which was indigenously manufactured by Garden Reach shipbuilding and Engineering, Kolkata and commissioned into the Indian Navy on 20th August, 2001. The ship has an endurance of over 4000 NM, and is also equipped with state-of-the- art air surveillance and surface radar, an electronic warfare suite and chaff system. The inclusion of the ship in Andaman and Nicobar Command fleet is a force multiplier and has added potency to the War Fighting ability of the fleet.

srin
BRFite
Posts: 1566
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:13

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby srin » 22 Dec 2017 06:38

dinesh_kimar wrote:
What is most puzzling is we had access to U-209 blue print (which is considered one of best post cold war diesel submarine designs) and could have continued building it and improving on it.


I read somewhere that the front hull shape / dynamics is patented by HDW and we cant copy it.


Patents expire in 20 years, so if we really have the blueprints we can start building our own.

srin
BRFite
Posts: 1566
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:13

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby srin » 22 Dec 2017 06:39

^^ Btw, even for Scorpenes, now is the time to build our local copies - before MDL starts to lose its expertise.

yensoy
BRFite
Posts: 943
Joined: 29 May 2002 11:31
Location: USA

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby yensoy » 22 Dec 2017 07:07

Singha wrote:main difference is a sub launched one will be awash in sea water and be rigged to quietly swim out on own power (low setting) than be shot out by a capsule of compressed air like old U-boats and ship launched HWT.
diameter and length will be same.
not a big change imo but some testing is certainly necessary. maybe new electrical interface to hook into the submarine FCS.
its storage, handling and repair in the torpedo room mechanized racks also needs certification.


As per wiki it is wire guided. I assume the ship launched version won't be wire guided but the sub will, so there is that difference too and IMHO it is a pretty big difference.

srin wrote:
dinesh_kimar wrote:
I read somewhere that the front hull shape / dynamics is patented by HDW and we cant copy it.


Patents expire in 20 years, so if we really have the blueprints we can start building our own.


I doubt it's the patent which is blocking it. There may be something in the contract which prevents us from copying the cross-section, for ever. And we need to play nice in order to maintain a relationship for spares & refits.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 63100
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Singha » 22 Dec 2017 09:04

why is the ship launched torp not wire guided ? any refs?

I know in WW2 they were free running, but with the range of a HWT, wont the ship want to provide mid course updated to the torp?

wiki mentions wire guidance for varunastra

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19592
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 22 Dec 2017 09:57

I have Gabler's book on sub design.Our 209s were unique in having his escape module, not fitted to std.U-boats.
Yes, we could've restarted building U-boats but the court clearance that there was no evidence of any kickbacks, came after the Scorpene deal.In the intervening years we sold at scrap value the entire machinery.Our submarines and those involved in building our 2 U- boats wept.
Last edited by Philip on 23 Dec 2017 05:20, edited 1 time in total.

krishna_krishna
BRFite
Posts: 630
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 04:14

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby krishna_krishna » 22 Dec 2017 10:09

^^ I can tell you not all was lost, that team had big role to play in arihant and its sister class build

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19592
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 22 Dec 2017 10:24

Heartening to know that all was not lost. One knows that V.Adm."Mickey" Roy and others were heading the programme and involved, but not much about those at the technical/ builder level.Not too long ago had dinner with one previously in the loop , can't comment.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 63100
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Singha » 22 Dec 2017 10:47

Even the yasen and perhaps borei too has escape pod. Imo it should be mandatory in all our future subs because unless its easily reachable shallow areas i rate the chances of dsrv rescue as very low

yensoy
BRFite
Posts: 943
Joined: 29 May 2002 11:31
Location: USA

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby yensoy » 22 Dec 2017 12:11

Singha wrote:why is the ship launched torp not wire guided ? any refs?

I know in WW2 they were free running, but with the range of a HWT, wont the ship want to provide mid course updated to the torp?

wiki mentions wire guidance for varunastra


It's just my guess. I can't imagine how the wire will not snap when the torpedo is blasted out of its canister. Also why would you need wire guidance when there is much reduced stealth requirement for surface vessels (as compared with submarines which basically have to go silent)?

deWalker
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 88
Joined: 27 Apr 2003 11:31
Location: USA

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby deWalker » 22 Dec 2017 13:07

yensoy wrote:
Singha wrote:main difference is a sub launched one will be awash in sea water and be rigged to quietly swim out on own power (low setting) than be shot out by a capsule of compressed air like old U-boats and ship launched HWT.
diameter and length will be same.
not a big change imo but some testing is certainly necessary. maybe new electrical interface to hook into the submarine FCS.
its storage, handling and repair in the torpedo room mechanized racks also needs certification.


As per wiki it is wire guided. I assume the ship launched version won't be wire guided but the sub will, so there is that difference too and IMHO it is a pretty big difference.

srin wrote:
Patents expire in 20 years, so if we really have the blueprints we can start building our own.


I doubt it's the patent which is blocking it. There may be something in the contract which prevents us from copying the cross-section, for ever. And we need to play nice in order to maintain a relationship for spares & refits.


I'm not sure how patents matter - they only come into play in export markets and the like. All is fair in love and war. The Yanks didn't sue the Russkies for Amraamski!

Diwakar

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19592
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 22 Dec 2017 17:22

The Chakra has its pod.All Ru N-subs have their pods.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21909
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 23 Dec 2017 00:08

Slow Overseas Equipment Supply Causes Delay in India’s Destroyer Project

https://sputniknews.com/military/201712 ... n-project/

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4155
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karthik S » 23 Dec 2017 00:31

Austin wrote:Slow Overseas Equipment Supply Causes Delay in India’s Destroyer Project

https://sputniknews.com/military/201712 ... n-project/



Wonderful, 3 year delay now with vizag said to be ready only by 2021 and we want to gear up against China.

kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2643
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby kit » 23 Dec 2017 01:46

Singha wrote:I have a strong feeling every french system is compromised to cheen either direct or via moles in australia or arab nations


i would say most foreign systems (including American ) can be compromised via their second or third tier suppliers ... only indigenous stuff are proof to some extent .

kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2643
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby kit » 23 Dec 2017 01:50

deWalker wrote:
yensoy wrote:
As per wiki it is wire guided. I assume the ship launched version won't be wire guided but the sub will, so there is that difference too and IMHO it is a pretty big difference.



I doubt it's the patent which is blocking it. There may be something in the contract which prevents us from copying the cross-section, for ever. And we need to play nice in order to maintain a relationship for spares & refits.


I'm not sure how patents matter - they only come into play in export markets and the like. All is fair in love and war. The Yanks didn't sue the Russkies for Amraamski!

Diwakar


the yanks reportedly wants India to enter into a "intellectual property" protection agreement before any "tech" transfers .. so keep buying no copies. The China scare will keep India buying and buying enriching them while Russia will play China and India.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19592
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 23 Dec 2017 05:28

Bad news.There really should be no problem with the engines from the UKR or shafts from Ru as we have close traditionally relations with both.But only 32 SAM's on a DDG?! This is wholly inadequate.Incoming salvos will be in larger number.Attacks from 3-4 missile craft could overwhelm a DDGs defences.The DDGs require at least 48 LR Sam's,plus the shorter ranged BPDMS systems to throw as much metal at the missiles if they have avoided the B-8s.Right now there is no tiered missile defence, a grave defect.

nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6210
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby nachiket » 23 Dec 2017 05:34

Philip wrote:Bad news.There really should be no problem with the engines from the UKR or shafts from Ru as we have close traditionally relations with both.

Clearly there is. Not surprising considering the problems in Ukraine.

Thakur_B
BRFite
Posts: 1236
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Thakur_B » 23 Dec 2017 06:58

There should be no problem with engines from UKR or shafts from Ru as we have close traditionally relations with both. Must be the fault of the bleddy injuns. /s

deWalker
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 88
Joined: 27 Apr 2003 11:31
Location: USA

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby deWalker » 23 Dec 2017 07:13

kit wrote:
the yanks reportedly wants India to enter into a "intellectual property" protection agreement before any "tech" transfers .. so keep buying no copies. The China scare will keep India buying and buying enriching them while Russia will play China and India.


Thanks Kit. Do you have a link for that demand? I can see how it applies when key IP is shared, not just OEM products. Even so, needn’t apply to HDW and the French.

Diwakar

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19592
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 23 Dec 2017 16:48

The UK parliamentary committee on defence has found that the JSFs on order will actually cost them $200M a pop.In addition to fully utilise the carrier's capabilities a lot of software connectivity is further reqd. plus they also want connectivity with their Typhoons.ALIS has its glitches too.The eventual order for F-35Bs is likely to be cut as a consequence.They now feel a reg. Cat version would've been a better option.What they discarded in favour of the STOVL variant!
Something for the IN to chew upon for IAC-2.

brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6629
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby brar_w » 23 Dec 2017 18:12

Philip wrote:The UK parliamentary committee on defence has found that the JSFs on order will actually cost them $200M a pop.In addition to fully utilise the carrier's capabilities a lot of software connectivity is further reqd. plus they also want connectivity with their Typhoons.ALIS has its glitches too.The eventual order for F-35Bs is likely to be cut as a consequence.They now feel a reg. Cat version would've been a better option.What they discarded in favour of the STOVL variant!
Something for the IN to chew upon for IAC-2.


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5098&p=2239671#p2239671

kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2643
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby kit » 24 Dec 2017 06:24

deWalker wrote:
kit wrote:
the yanks reportedly wants India to enter into a "intellectual property" protection agreement before any "tech" transfers .. so keep buying no copies. The China scare will keep India buying and buying enriching them while Russia will play China and India.


Thanks Kit. Do you have a link for that demand? I can see how it applies when key IP is shared, not just OEM products. Even so, needn’t apply to HDW and the French.

Diwakar



https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/us-military-firms-want-security-of-classified-defence-info-in-india-for-jvs/articleshow/62008166.cms

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19592
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 24 Dec 2017 07:50

Who will want Indian built Scorpenes , performance specs woefully compromised , non AIP, at costs twice as much as a late model Russian Kilo, which is also built twice as fast and far costlier than its German rivals as well ? Can we guarantee the same quality standards without French help too, for which they will charge us an arm and a leg?

Forget the Scorpene, it is "passe" to use a French word and after the leaks and only a navy with a death wish would want to buy or build more.The Germans and possibly Swedes , sensing an opportunity, are racing ahead of the Western manufacturers.

VinodTK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2166
Joined: 18 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby VinodTK » 24 Dec 2017 21:06

Hyderabad picked for strategic location, defence units
Hyderabad: The Eastern Naval Command is said to have decided to set up a VLF (very low frequency) station spread over 2,900 acres at Pudur in Ranga Reddy district. The correspondence between the Centre and the state government to secure forest clearance had been going on since 2011. After raising several queries on deforestation and imposing compulsory afforestation norms, the Union ministry of environment and forests accorded the final approval for diversion of forest land on November 14.

A CMO official said, “The Eastern Naval Command is keen on setting up the VLF station on the city outskirts since it considers Hyderabad to be a strategic location for defence development and research. The city houses several defence units.” “At one stage during the Congress regime, the government expressed its inability to allot land identified by the Navy with the Centre refusing to give forest clearance. The TRS government revived the project and pursued it with the Centre,” he said. Chief Minister K. Chandrasekhar Rao thanked the Centre for approving the project and urged it to commence the work at the earliest.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19592
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 25 Dec 2017 01:16

Transplanting old trees even 80+ yrs old is being done in many places, road expansions,etc.Many years ago a major transplanting job was done at the Cochin naval base during expansions, saving almost all that were in the way.Some I think 100+ yrs old.For such a large site an ELF commn. system may be possible.

arshyam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2925
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby arshyam » 25 Dec 2017 07:27

So this is the second VLF facility after INS Kattabomman. Any news on the ELF facility? Last I heard, the AP/TS facility was going to use ELF (see this Hindu article). I was under the impression that Kattabomman had an ELF facility as well, but an essay in Chacko Joseph's book "Foxtrot to Arihant" (chapter Submarine Communcation, pg. 181), claimed that only a VLF facility was built since ELF required a very large antenna that was not found to be feasible. Even this ToI article from 2014 about the CNS inaugurating a new facility at INS Kattabomman makes no mention of ELF: Navy gets new facility to communicate with nuclear submarines prowling underwater.

Apparently, the US shut down its ELF facilities in 2004 as they moved back to VLF and sat comms (Wiki), leaving only Russia and us (?) with such facilities.

deWalker
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 88
Joined: 27 Apr 2003 11:31
Location: USA

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby deWalker » 25 Dec 2017 09:10



Thanks for supporting my laziness, kit :) . The request from the US makes sense, as they are apparently opening the kimono and sharing IP. My earlier comment was that when we buy OEM equipment, there is no IP / patent obligation to folllow - in the context of HDW, Scorpene etc.

Cheers

Diwakar

jaysimha
BRFite
Posts: 645
Joined: 20 Dec 2017 14:30

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby jaysimha » 25 Dec 2017 16:11

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION (RFI) FOR ‘INTEGRATED COMBAT SYSTEM SIMULATOR FOR P-75 (SCORPENE)
SUBMARINES OF THE INDIAN NAVY

https://www.indiannavy.nic.in/sites/def ... p%2017.pdf

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19592
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 25 Dec 2017 16:32

So late in the day for an RFI for a Scorp. simulator? One would've imagined that it would've been part of the original contract.

jaysimha
BRFite
Posts: 645
Joined: 20 Dec 2017 14:30

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby jaysimha » 25 Dec 2017 16:58


srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4087
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby srai » 25 Dec 2017 17:44

Philip wrote:So late in the day for an RFI for a Scorp. simulator? One would've imagined that it would've been part of the original contract.

Staggered deals hide the true costs of an acquisition, IMO. Initial signatures are for something palatable and then subsequently bunch of additional deals are signed. Look at all the Russian deals, like T-90 etc. Most people only remember the original (but incomplete) costs.


Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests