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Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

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Philip
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 15 Nov 2017 12:43

Posting this here for more insight into the CV debate,large or med,small,etc. Here is an interesting US Rand report where McCain rejcts calls for smaller CVs as assisting larger ones,not replacing them.In the IN's context,we do not need large CVs as we have no "expeditionary agenda".Our fundamental aim is to sanitise the IOR from external threats (read China),where our vast subcontinental landmass and extensive island territories gives us a unique opportunity to monitor the chokepoints esp. the Malacca Straits at v.close quarters.The decision to upgrade the runways in the ANC to accommodate all large types of transports and fighters reduces our need for possessing large v.expensive CVs. Analysts have advocated basing some of our AWACS/AREW assets here to give us an advanced picture of enemy activity.
As said before we should/should've leveraged the design of the 30/35Kt amphibs to also accommodate fxd. wing/STOBAR ops using existing/future aircraft which could operate from such a flat top when reqd.
In any case they would be excellent ASW/AEW platforms using multi-role helos alone.

https://breakingdefense.com/2017/10/sma ... ce-mccain/
Small Aircraft Carriers: RAND Report Won’t Convince McCain
By SYDNEY J. FREEDBERG JR.
on October 20, 2017 at 8:28 AM

WASHINGTON: The fleet needs smaller, cheaper aircraft carriers than the badly over budget, behind schedule Gerald Ford, ex-Navy pilot John McCain has long argued. No way, “Bigger Aircraft Carriers Are Better,” declares a recent National Interest article – widely publicized by the carrier industry’s advocacy group, ACIBC – citing a study that RAND did for the Navy. But McCain is unlikely to be convinced, and RAND actually thought at least one kind of smaller carrier was worth considering.

John McCain
The RAND report doesn’t refute McCain’s argument, a Hill staffer told me, because it doesn’t really answer the question the Senate Armed Services chairman was asking. “They looked at them (the alternative designs) against the mission set the Ford does in the most stressing scenario” – a major war against a sophisticated adversary like China – “and not surprisingly found out they’re not as good,” the staffer said. “They punted on the whole spectrum of other things aircraft carriers can do where a Ford is overkill and where a smaller carrier might be more suitable.”

RAND also makes only passing mention of one of McCain’s central ideas, that “The Navy should also pursue a new ‘high/low mix’ in its aircraft carrier fleet,” to quote his white paper, Restoring American Power. “Traditional nuclear-powered supercarriers remain necessary to deter and defeat near-peer competitors, but other day-to-day missions, such as power projection, sea lane control, close air support, or counterterrorism, can be achieved with a smaller, lower cost, conventionally powered aircraft carrier.”

RAND did say such a mix of larger and smaller flattops working together, each taking on different missions, “might lower risk somewhat” and make it more “manageable. But the thinktank didn’t study it in depth as a long-term solution.

A notional future naval battle (CSBA graphic)
So, the RAND report may not meet the legal mandate. In the final language passed by the House and Senate, the National Defense Authorization Act for 2016, Section 128(d), orders the Navy to report to Congress on alternative carrier designs

“for a range of operational scenarios”;
“that would replace or supplement the CVN–78 class aircraft carrier” (emphasis ours); and
“ranging from less than 20,000 tons to greater than 100,000 tons.”
However, the RAND report

only analyzed performance in “the most stressing scenario,”
looked at a “lower-cost carrier replacement” for the Ford that would “over time, define the carrier force”; and
only looked at sizes from 20,000 to 100,000 tons, nothing smaller or larger.
While McCain advocates smaller carriers, the NDAA also asks the Navy to study something bigger than the current supercarriers, examining both ends of the spectrum – which RAND didn’t do.

Even if you set aside all of the criticisms above, however, “bigger is better” still isn’t a fair summary of what RAND said. The study really boils down to “smaller has tradeoffs.” For some alternative aircraft carrier designs, the thinktank concluded the reduction in cost wasn’t worth the reduction in combat effectiveness. For others, RAND said, it might be – notably for a midsized nuclear carrier about 30 percent smaller than the Ford.

Navy photo
The USS Forrestal. The US no longer operates carriers in this size class.
Four Options

RAND looked at four notional designs, each with its own strengths and weaknesses in a major war (and each with a nigh-incomprehensible designation):

At the high end: a 100,000 ton nuclear carrier (CVN 8X), a slightly less expensive version of the Ford. RAND found this ship sacrificed some sortie generation capability – the ability to land aircraft, refuel and rearm them, and get them back in the air, over and over – for “only incremental reduction” in cost. By the time you’d paid to develop and debug the new design, there might be no savings over the Ford class at all.

Navy photo
The escort carrier Badoeing Strait
At the low end: a 20,000 ton conventionally powered carrier (CV-EX), a modern version of the escort carriers of World War II. Such a small deck couldn’t operate a complete carrier air wing, only jump-jets like the F-35B, tiltrotors like the V-22 Osprey, and helicopters – and not many of those. Other capabilities like electronic warfare would have to come from larger carriers and land bases that can accommodate larger aircraft, or the Navy would have to develop new vertical take-off and landing aircraft for those roles. So the escort carrier “is not a practical variant at all,” RAND said, without major and potentially expensive changes in how the Navy operates.

More interesting are the two options in the middle:

HMS Queen Elizabeth

A 70,000 ton nuclear carrier (CVN-LX), almost a third smaller than the Ford but still with a full-size flight deck able to operate the same aircraft. (There’ve been proposals for a conventional carrier in this weight class, like the British Queen Elizabeth or the former USS Forrestal, but RAND strangely didn’t study that). This ship would generate fewer sorties per day than the Ford, unsurprisingly, but RAND estimated “this is not a significant limitation for stressing warfighting scenarios.” More seriously, the 70,000-ton ship could carry less ammunition and fuel per airplane than the Ford, so it might require more frequent resupply, always awkward when under fire. Nevertheless, RAND said, it “would allow considerable savings across the ship’s service life and appears to be a viable alternative to consider for further concept exploration.” (Our italics).

A 40,000 ton conventional carrier (CV-LX), an upgraded version of the current amphibious assault ship USS America. Like the America, this ship’s deck would be small enough that it could only operate F-35Bs, V-22s, and choppers, so it would require outside support, but much less than the smaller escort carrier concept. Since this class derives from an existing design, it would be relatively “low-risk” and affordable, RAND said, and two of them could most of the work of one Ford – but not all, meaning they wouldn’t be a “viable option” to replace it without many other changes to the fleet.

LHA-6, the USS America
When McCain’s white paper calls for smaller carriers, it specifically recommends ships in this class – but not to replace the supercarriers in the Navy’s carrier strike groups (CSGs). Instead, he wanted to build such non-nuclear light carriers to replace the aging Wasp­-class big-deck amphibs in Amphibious Ready Groups (ARGs), which carry Marines. The idea was to give the Marines more airpower for more demanding missions, not to give the fleet carriers less. That crucial nuance was somehow lost along the way from McCain to the statutory language to the Navy to RAND.

“The debate will not end with this study, as it has not ended after myriad other studies that have reached similar conclusions,” retired Navy officer Bryan McGrath told me. “Smaller, limited purpose carriers have a place in the future fleet, but as an adjunct to—not a replacement for—large nuclear-powered carriers.

ramana
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 16 Nov 2017 01:38

Hindu's Dinakar Peri talks to Admiral Lanba on the recently concluded Goa Maritime Conference(GMC)

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/intervi ... 982347.ece

tsarkar
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Posts: 2176
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Location: mumbai

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby tsarkar » 16 Nov 2017 15:24

Some more screwdrivering -

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease. ... lid=173539

In consonance with Government of India’s ‘Make in India’ Policy; Indian Navy on 15th November 2017, has concluded a contract with Tata Power Strategic Engineering Division for supply of Portable Diver Detection Sonar (PDDS) under the ‘Buy and Make (Indian)’ category. This is the second contract to be signed by the Indian Navy under the ‘Buy and Make (Indian)’ category to boost Government of India’s Defence indigenisation effort. The maiden contract under this category was also signed earlier this year by the Indian Navy for supply of Surface Surveillance Radar for IN warships.

Portable Diver Detection Sonar would be manufactured by Tata Power SED in India at their facility at Bengaluru with Transfer of Technology from DSIT Israel. Induction of weapons and sensors under ‘Buy and Make (Indian)’ category, is one the numerous measures being taken by the Indian Navy to boost indigenisation for ensuring a self reliant Navy, in line with the Government of India’s ‘Make in India’ initiative. Induction of Portable Diver Detection Sonar would further enhance Indian Navy’s Underwater Surveillance Capability in the field of Low Intensity Maritime Operations. Procurement of these sonars for utilisation onboard ships is being undertaken by the Indian Navy to augment countermeasures against asymmetric threats.


The actual product https://dsit.co.il/products/underwater- ... ield-pdds/

Vips
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Vips » 17 Nov 2017 01:36

4 shipyards in battle for 6 hi-speed landing craft .

Pushing towards developing the Indian Navy’s amphibious warfare capabilities, four major local shipyards are in a race to construct six highspeed landing craft (HSLC) that will strengthen the country’s ability to land troops, tanks and armoured vehicles on enemy shores.

Reliance Naval & Engineering, L&T shipyard, Goa Shipyard and Cochin Shipyard have responded to the Navy’s request for information (RFI) to procure the HSLC, issued on September 22, sources with knowledge of the matter said. The RFI seeks details of contractors’ technical and financial capabilities to manufacture the equipment.

“The companies responded with their technical capabilities, their design of the product and how they will execute the manufacturing,” said one of the sources.

The HSLC are a much-needed requirement of the Navy, which wants them capable to be operated from landing platform docks (LPDs), or large amphibious warships.

During an amphibious operation, an LPD anchors about 25-30 miles off the coast and about four HSLC emerge out of it and transport troops and vehicles, including tanks, to the shore. In addition, the Navy wants the crafts to have the ability to be used in ‘over the horizon’ scenarios, which means beyond the visual and radar range of the shoreline.

The Navy wants the HSLC to transport tanks, armoured vehicles, equipment and cargo of at least 65 tonnes, plus a minimum of 180 troops, from ship to shore. This paraphernalia will obviously be transported in different configurations.

The HSLC will have strong bulletproof and armour plating with machine guns on both sides, providing protection to the personnel it is transporting. They will also have cameras for all-round viewing.

Besides amphibious operations, the crafts can also be used for humanitarian aid, disaster relief and logistic support for island territories. The six crafts are estimated to cost a total of Rs 3,000 crore and are for delivery in 2023.

The Navy’s LPD project also includes procurement of four warships for Rs 20,000 crore. It is one of the biggest contracts for the private sector, wherein Reliance Defence has teamed up with French defence major Naval Group, and L&T has tied up with Spain’s Navantia in the race to build the platforms. The commercial bids are yet to be opened.

These LPDs must have large capacity for storing and transporting tanks, vehicles, troops and even helicopters. Each LPD must have four landing craft mechanised (LCMs), which are smaller as compared to the HSCL and cannot carry vehicles and tanks.

With the acquisition of the HSLC, the LPDs can have a combination of HSLCs and LCMs for amphibious operations.

Helicopters on the deck of the LPDs can also be used for transporting soldiers. This is where the navy’s procurement of naval multi-role and utility helicopters also becomes important, because those will play a crucial role in anti-submarine warfare and transportation of troops

arun
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby arun » 19 Nov 2017 19:44

^^^ RFI for Construction of Six High Speed Landing Craft (HSLC) for Indian Navy.

Tender Date: 22/09/2017 to 06/11/2017

Clicky

Extract ……………

Role:

(a) Ship-to-shore and shore-to-shore movement of material, vehicles, equipment, and personnel in support of amphibious operations.
(b) Well dock operations for Rigid Hull Inflatable Boat.
(c) Humanitarian Assistance and Disaster Relief Operations (HADR).
(d) Logistic support for Island Territories.
(e) Search and Rescue.

Capabilities:

(a) It should be capable of transporting vehicles, equipment, cargo and personnel from ship to shore and vice-versa.
(b) It should have the capability to operate from the Landing Platform Dock (LPD)well dock/ shore both by day and night The dimensions of the HSLC are as follows:-
(i) Length < 99 ft
(ii) Breadth < 48 ft
(iii) Height < 24 ft
(c) It should have the ability to operate from unprepared beaches and/ or shores at gradients more than and equal to 1:50. Requirement of shore support when alongside jetty should be minimal.
(d) It should have two ramps, one each forward and aft for enabling ‘Roll-on Roll-off’ manoeuvre. These ramps should be capable of supporting loads of 55 tons or more when fully lowered. The ramps of the High Speed Landing Craft (HSLC) should be able to mate with each other to facilitate loading/ unloading of cargo from one HSLC to other, both at the beach and in the dock well (in ramp to ramp configuration).
(e) The sides of the craft and pilot house should be suitably designed/ constructed to provide protection to personnel against small arms fire.
(f) The HSLC should have the provision of mounting any configuration of four machine guns (12.7 mm and 7.62 mm).
(g) It should have an opeartional life expectancy of at least 20 years.
(h) The construction of HSLC should provide adequate coffer dams, void spaces, double hull for provision of reserve of buoyancy commensurate with the nature of its operation.
(j) Endurance of atleast 24 hrs, at economic speed more than 8 knots.
(k) High degree of automation to reduce manpower and improve habitability.
(l) Fire Fighting capability throughout the machinery spaces, pilot cabin and upper deck of the HSLC to be provided.
(m) Basic communication fit to operate from LPDs/ limited coastal patrol (for 24 hrs range of operation ).
(n) Adequate redundancies in terms of equipment.
(p) Conformity of equipment fit to latest International Maritime Organisation (IMO)/ MARPOL/ (Marine Environment Protection Committee) MEPC regulations in force, wherever applicable.

Operation Speed:

(a) Speed > 28 knots in Sea State 2 in Transit Mode without cargo.
(b) Speed > 18 knots in Sea State 2, with > 65 tons cargo (Normal Working Load).

Endurance:

Endurance of > 250 Nm at economical speed > 16 kn, Normal Working Load > 65 tons, upto Sea State 3.

Self Defence:

(a) A total of four firing points – two machine guns on either side (providing all round coverage).
(b) There should be adequate weapon storage space.
(c) Bullet proofing of glasses and light armour plating for wheelhouse, forward control station and gun weapons stations is to be provided (protection against armour piercing bullets) .
(d) Two Warning Points for fitment of Acoustic Warning Device (AWD) for providing all round coverage are to be provided.

Operation from LPD:

HSLCs are to be so designed to enable operation of two HSLCs or one HSLC with two LCMs from IN LPD. Dimension of LCM is as follows:-
Length – 23 M
Breadth – 6.5 M
Draught – 1.5 M

Displacement:

Light ship displacement < 185 ton.
Fully loaded < 285 ton (approx).

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9295
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby arun » 19 Nov 2017 19:56

RFI for Indigenous Construction of 5 Hydrographic / Oceanographic Survey Vessels

Tender Date: 13/10/2017 to 04/12/2017

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION (RFI) INDIGENOUS CONSTRUCTION OF SURVEY VESSELS

Extract …………………

Role: Full scale coastal and deep-water Hydrographic Survey capability of Ports and Harbours, Approaches and determination of Navigational channels/ routes. In addition, surveys of maritime limits up to EEZ/ extended continental shelf.
Crew: 15Officers and 180 Sailors
Length: New design
Beam: New design
Draught : Not more than 4.50 m (at Standard displacement)
Tonnage: 2700 tons – 3000 tons
Propulsion : Twin shaft CODAD
Max Speed: NLT 18 knots (at 85% MCR)
Cruising Speed : 16 knots
Eco Speed : 12-14 knots
Mission duration : 60 days
Endurance at 14 Knots: 6500 NM
ASW : Demolition Stores
CIWS : One 30 mm Naval Surface Gun (NSG) with Electro Optical Fire Control System(EOFCS)
Radar: Two ‘I’ band COTS navigation radars
IFF : IFF Mk XII (S) Transponder or an upgraded version
Data Link : LINK II MOD III or an upgraded version
Aviation : Capable of operating one Advanced Light Helicopter/ Naval Utility Helicopter (ALH)/ (NUH) (with retractable hangar)

VKumar
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby VKumar » 19 Nov 2017 22:36

arun wrote:^^^ RFI for Construction of Six High Speed Landing Craft (HSLC) for Indian Navy.

Tender Date: 22/09/2017 to 06/11/2017

Clicky

Extract ……………

Role:

(a) Ship-to-shore and shore-to-shore movement of material, vehicles, equipment, and personnel in support of amphibious operations.
(b) Well dock operations for Rigid Hull Inflatable Boat.
(c) Humanitarian Assistance and Disaster Relief Operations (HADR).
(d) Logistic support for Island Territories.
(e) Search and Rescue.

Capabilities:

(a) It should be capable of transporting vehicles, equipment, cargo and personnel from ship to shore and vice-versa.
(b) It should have the capability to operate from the Landing Platform Dock (LPD)well dock/ shore both by day and night The dimensions of the HSLC are as follows:-
(i) Length < 99 ft
(ii) Breadth < 48 ft
(iii) Height < 24 ft
(c) It should have the ability to operate from unprepared beaches and/ or shores at gradients more than and equal to 1:50. Requirement of shore support when alongside jetty should be minimal.
(d) It should have two ramps, one each forward and aft for enabling ‘Roll-on Roll-off’ manoeuvre. These ramps should be capable of supporting loads of 55 tons or more when fully lowered. The ramps of the High Speed Landing Craft (HSLC) should be able to mate with each other to facilitate loading/ unloading of cargo from one HSLC to other, both at the beach and in the dock well (in ramp to ramp configuration).
(e) The sides of the craft and pilot house should be suitably designed/ constructed to provide protection to personnel against small arms fire.
(f) The HSLC should have the provision of mounting any configuration of four machine guns (12.7 mm and 7.62 mm).
(g) It should have an opeartional life expectancy of at least 20 years.
(h) The construction of HSLC should provide adequate coffer dams, void spaces, double hull for provision of reserve of buoyancy commensurate with the nature of its operation.
(j) Endurance of atleast 24 hrs, at economic speed more than 8 knots.
(k) High degree of automation to reduce manpower and improve habitability.
(l) Fire Fighting capability throughout the machinery spaces, pilot cabin and upper deck of the HSLC to be provided.
(m) Basic communication fit to operate from LPDs/ limited coastal patrol (for 24 hrs range of operation ).
(n) Adequate redundancies in terms of equipment.
(p) Conformity of equipment fit to latest International Maritime Organisation (IMO)/ MARPOL/ (Marine Environment Protection Committee) MEPC regulations in force, wherever applicable.

Operation Speed:

(a) Speed > 28 knots in Sea State 2 in Transit Mode without cargo.
(b) Speed > 18 knots in Sea State 2, with > 65 tons cargo (Normal Working Load).

Endurance:

Endurance of > 250 Nm at economical speed > 16 kn, Normal Working Load > 65 tons, upto Sea State 3.

Self Defence:

(a) A total of four firing points – two machine guns on either side (providing all round coverage).
(b) There should be adequate weapon storage space.
(c) Bullet proofing of glasses and light armour plating for wheelhouse, forward control station and gun weapons stations is to be provided (protection against armour piercing bullets) .
(d) Two Warning Points for fitment of Acoustic Warning Device (AWD) for providing all round coverage are to be provided.

Operation from LPD:

HSLCs are to be so designed to enable operation of two HSLCs or one HSLC with two LCMs from IN LPD. Dimension of LCM is as follows:-
Length – 23 M
Breadth – 6.5 M
Draught – 1.5 M

Displacement:

Light ship displacement < 185 ton.
Fully loaded < 285 ton (approx).



Should have air defence too, CIWS, SAM. Major threat will be from missiles and enemy aircraft or helicopters.

Kartik
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Posts: 3519
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Kartik » 21 Nov 2017 05:16

IN to receive its first of 2 submarine rescue systems in 2018



The Indian Navy (IN) will receive the first of two submarine rescue systems (SRSs) from UK-based company JFD in March 2018, senior IN officials told Jane’s on 20 November.

The INR4 billion (USD62 million) deal for the supply of the two third-generation, 30-tonne SRSs was signed in mid-2015, and includes deep submergence and rescue vessels (DSRVs), launch and recovery systems (LARSs), as well as transfer-under-pressure (TUP) systems.

In a 17 November statement, JFD, which did not identify the IN as the recipient of the two SRSs, stated that the contract also includes all the support equipment and logistics required to operate the system in addition to a 25-year all-inclusive after-sales service support programme.

srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3687
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby srai » 21 Nov 2017 09:37

VKumar wrote:
arun wrote:^^^ RFI for Construction of Six High Speed Landing Craft (HSLC) for Indian Navy.

Tender Date: 22/09/2017 to 06/11/2017

Clicky

Extract ……………

Role:

(a) Ship-to-shore and shore-to-shore movement of material, vehicles, equipment, and personnel in support of amphibious operations.
(b) Well dock operations for Rigid Hull Inflatable Boat.
(c) Humanitarian Assistance and Disaster Relief Operations (HADR).
(d) Logistic support for Island Territories.
(e) Search and Rescue.

Capabilities:

(a) It should be capable of transporting vehicles, equipment, cargo and personnel from ship to shore and vice-versa.
(b) It should have the capability to operate from the Landing Platform Dock (LPD)well dock/ shore both by day and night The dimensions of the HSLC are as follows:-
(i) Length < 99 ft
(ii) Breadth < 48 ft
(iii) Height < 24 ft
(c) It should have the ability to operate from unprepared beaches and/ or shores at gradients more than and equal to 1:50. Requirement of shore support when alongside jetty should be minimal.
(d) It should have two ramps, one each forward and aft for enabling ‘Roll-on Roll-off’ manoeuvre. These ramps should be capable of supporting loads of 55 tons or more when fully lowered. The ramps of the High Speed Landing Craft (HSLC) should be able to mate with each other to facilitate loading/ unloading of cargo from one HSLC to other, both at the beach and in the dock well (in ramp to ramp configuration).
(e) The sides of the craft and pilot house should be suitably designed/ constructed to provide protection to personnel against small arms fire.
(f) The HSLC should have the provision of mounting any configuration of four machine guns (12.7 mm and 7.62 mm).
(g) It should have an opeartional life expectancy of at least 20 years.
(h) The construction of HSLC should provide adequate coffer dams, void spaces, double hull for provision of reserve of buoyancy commensurate with the nature of its operation.
(j) Endurance of atleast 24 hrs, at economic speed more than 8 knots.
(k) High degree of automation to reduce manpower and improve habitability.
(l) Fire Fighting capability throughout the machinery spaces, pilot cabin and upper deck of the HSLC to be provided.
(m) Basic communication fit to operate from LPDs/ limited coastal patrol (for 24 hrs range of operation ).
(n) Adequate redundancies in terms of equipment.
(p) Conformity of equipment fit to latest International Maritime Organisation (IMO)/ MARPOL/ (Marine Environment Protection Committee) MEPC regulations in force, wherever applicable.

Operation Speed:

(a) Speed > 28 knots in Sea State 2 in Transit Mode without cargo.
(b) Speed > 18 knots in Sea State 2, with > 65 tons cargo (Normal Working Load).

Endurance:

Endurance of > 250 Nm at economical speed > 16 kn, Normal Working Load > 65 tons, upto Sea State 3.

Self Defence:

(a) A total of four firing points – two machine guns on either side (providing all round coverage).
(b) There should be adequate weapon storage space.
(c) Bullet proofing of glasses and light armour plating for wheelhouse, forward control station and gun weapons stations is to be provided (protection against armour piercing bullets) .
(d) Two Warning Points for fitment of Acoustic Warning Device (AWD) for providing all round coverage are to be provided.

Operation from LPD:

HSLCs are to be so designed to enable operation of two HSLCs or one HSLC with two LCMs from IN LPD. Dimension of LCM is as follows:-
Length – 23 M
Breadth – 6.5 M
Draught – 1.5 M

Displacement:

Light ship displacement < 185 ton.
Fully loaded < 285 ton (approx).



Should have air defence too, CIWS, SAM. Major threat will be from missiles and enemy aircraft or helicopters.

These are small platforms. Primary air defense would be provided by the invasion armada. Secondary option would be to have some MANPADs on board.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17871
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 21 Nov 2017 12:25

The 30mm gatlings used on our Polnocny class LCTs and std. aboard most of our surface ships would be adequate. They would occupy less space than the 30mm cannon derived from the BMP ICVs.

Philip
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Posts: 17871
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 23 Nov 2017 10:22

Xcpts:https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2017-11-22/indian-navy-the-odd-man-out-in-asias-quad-alliance
ndian Navy the Odd Man Out in Asia's 'Quad' Alliance
Nov. 22, 2017, at 4:02 a.m.

Indian Navy the Odd Man Out in Asia's 'Quad' Allianc
By Sanjeev Miglani

NEW DELHI (Reuters) - The Trump administration is pushing security ties between the United States, India, Japan and Australia, but the revival of the Asian "Quad" must overcome lingering mistrust in New Delhi towards its allies that hampers genuine military cooperation.

Joint naval drills have been at the heart of a relationship that analysts widely see as a move to counterbalance China's rising power by binding the region's leading democracies more closely together.

But while the navies of the United States, Japan and Australia can easily operate together - based on common U.S.-designed combat systems and data links - India is the outlier.

Not only are most of its ships and warplanes Russian-made, its government and military remain deeply reluctant to share data and open up sensitive military communications systems.

The United States has carried out more naval exercises with India than any other nation. But naval sources and experts say these are more about "cultural familiarization" than drills for joint combat.

Because India will not sign an agreement on sharing data, naval exercises are conducted through voice and text commands with rudimentary SMS-style data exchange, Indian and Japanese military sources said.

"Think of it as directing your friend to your house in the 1980s. Your left may be his right, neither of you have situational awareness," said Abhijit Iyer-Mitra, a senior fellow at New Delhi's Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies who has tracked the military exercises.

"What the Americans want is 2017 - drop a pin on Google maps and hit share. You know where your friend is and he knows where your house is and how to get to it."


The Indian defense ministry did not respond to a request for a comment. :rotfl:

ANNUAL DRILLS

The so-called Quad to discuss and cooperate on security emerged briefly as an initiative a decade ago - much to the annoyance of China - and was revived recently, with an officials-level meeting this month on the sidelines of a regional gathering in Manila.

The Trump administration has talked up cooperation with India as part of efforts for a "free, open and thriving Indo-Pacific".

Describing the Indian and Pacific Oceans as a "single strategic arena", U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson described India and the United States as regional "bookends".

"In concrete terms, it will lead to great co-ordination between the Indian, Japanese and American militaries including maritime domain awareness, anti-submarine warfare, amphibious warfare, and humanitarian assistance, disaster relief, and search and rescue," he said.

To be sure, India and the United States have steadily been bringing more powerful ships into their annual "Malabar" drills that have been expanded to include Japan in recent years.

This year the USS Nimitz carrier group was deployed for the maneuvers off India's eastern coast, along with an aircraft carrier from India and a helicopter carrier from Japan.

But a Japanese Maritime Self Defence Forces official said when Japan conducts drills with the Indian navy, communication is done mostly through voice transmission. There is no satellite link that would allow the two navies to access information and share monitor displays in on-board command centers.
Communication is usually the most difficult aspect of any joint drill, he said.

BUILDING BLOCKS

The exercises are meant to lay the ground for joint patrols that the U.S. eventually wants to conduct with India and its allies across the Indian Ocean and the Pacific.

U.S. Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Christopher Logan, a Pentagon spokesman, said better interoperability was a goal of the exercises and noted that India's enhanced role as a major U.S. defense partner would help boost the relationship.

"The designation of India as a major defense partner is significant and is intended to elevate defense trade and technology sharing with India to a level commensurate with that of our closest allies and partners," he said.

"As this relationship matures so will the level of interoperability."
Last year, India signed a military logistics pact with the United States after a decade of wrangling, but two other agreements are stuck.

The United States says the Communication and Information Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA) would allow it to supply India with encrypted communications equipment and systems. The Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement is the other pact that would set a framework through which the United States could share sensitive data to aid targeting and navigation with India.

India is concerned that agreeing to the CISMOA would open up its military communications to the United States, and even allow it to listen in on operations where Indian and U.S. interests may not coincide - such as against arch-rival Pakistan, military officials in New Delhi say.

RADARS TURNED OFF

Captain Gurpreet Khurana, executive director at the government-funded National Maritime Foundation, said India's underlying concern was having its autonomy constrained by binding its military into U.S. codes and operating procedures.

Once, the Americans proposed a portable "suitcase" communications system called the CENTRIXS which could transmit full situational awareness data to Indian ships while the two navies practised together. India refused to allow it to be plugged in for the duration of the exercise, citing operational security, according to an Indian source briefed on the planning of the exercises.

Even the joint air exercises that the two countries are conducting as a follow-on to Malabar are severely restricted, the source said.
India sends its Russian-acquired Sukhoi jets to the drills, but their radars and jammers are turned off.


David Shear, who served as Assistant Secretary of Defense for Asia under President Barack Obama, said U.S. forces, particularly the Navy, were well aware of the interoperability constraints to interacting with India.
"They understand what the obstacles are and that this is going to be a long-term project," he said.


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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 23 Nov 2017 18:06

Can someone confirm this.

An ad for recruitment to the IN,features pics of 2 Delhi class DDGs.,with one interesting detail.Instead of the 4 quad Uran launchers on either beam on either side of the Shtil and RBUs launchers,there are instead shown a new single multi-missile launcher with two tiers of 3 missiles in each,making it 6 missiles per launcher. Are these missiles BMos or Klub? From the pic,and one might be wrong,they appear to be larger than the Uran canisters.The two DDGs are from their radars,etc.,from the first batch of 3 Dlehi DDGs.12 BMos or Klub would be a much batter anti-ship missile package than the subsonic Urans.These may be refitted onto smaller attack craft ,smaller warships like our P-28s (which lack any sort of anti-ship missile),or even for shore batteries.

Dead on time...after the fake news of the IN allowing Yanquis aboard the INC Chakra,allegedly attributed to the dirty tricks dept. of the "Froggies",
an attempt to derail Indo-Ru naval cooperation esp. in submarines,the delectable ,sweeet French Macaroon arrives in India to peddle more Scorpenes for the IN.


French president’s first visit to India likely to advance sales pitch for additional Scorpenes
Thursday, November 23, 2017
By: IHS Janes

The impending visit by French President Emmanuel Macron to India in early 2018 is likely to progress the possible sale of at least three additional DCNS Scorpene diesel-electric attack submarines (SSKs) to the Indian Navy (IN) to augment its declining underwater assets, official sources have told Jane’s.

Macron was scheduled to visit India for the first time in December to attend the International Solar Alliance (ISA) summit, which has been postponed to early 2018. The French president’s schedule is being mutually worked out and will be announced soon, officials said.

In India, Macron will meet with Prime Minister Narendra Modi and other officials that could include Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby srin » 23 Nov 2017 19:24

^^^ Sorry, how would India be forced to buy additional scorpenes due to a fake news article (even assuming it is by French) on US getting access to INS Chakra ?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 23 Nov 2017 19:53

Fake news meant to queer the pitch reg. Indo-Ru sub cooperation. fakery didn't work.However,how the French are going to convince us of the worth of more Scorpenes is debatable.Its data has been exposed,they don't come with AIP yet cost more than a bomb(!),plus the french have won the OZ contest helped by on key clause that they would NEVER give India any superior sub tech than that provided to Oz.

Secondly,the Scorpene tech is now showing its age as the programme is 5-6 yrs. behind time and other nations have been operating the type for over a decade now. It cannot carry advanced anti-ship land attack missiles like Klub,leave alone BMos! The MESMA AIP system is considered inferior to other systems-even Pak is going with Chinese versions of the Stirling engine instead of MESMA for its Yuan boats.

Here is an interesting report on the change in tack by the RuN,showing how smaller corvette sized surface combatants can pack a terrific punch

(Kalibir) ,delivered from great ranges-over 1500KM,and field grater numbers of these smaller vessels instead of building large warships far more expensive too.
http://russia-insider.com/en/modern-rus ... ch/ri21551
Modern Russian Navy Will Be Based Around Small Versatile Vessels That Pack an Oversized Punch
With modern Russian missiles being so lethal, warships no longer need to be large to pack a punch -- as an extra bonus the loss of any one ship is not catastrophic
Nov 10, 2017|
MORE: MILITARY NATO NIGHTMARES

After a brief interlude due to professional reasons, please find below the first part of an article on the Russian Navy, on the latest generation of frigates and the technological advances that has enabled Russian sea power to be noticed globally.

This is article is partly in response to the original article, “New, Blue-Water Frigates to Become Main Surface Vessels of the Russian Navy”, back in the summer, written by an Ukrainian naval officer for the Jamestown Foundation and widely circulated on social media.

To save the readers too much trouble, the Russian naval capabilities are mostly presented in a negative light, and yet at the same time over exaggerates the Russian Navy’s overall ambitions. [NB Typical Western commentator framing of Russian military].

The author devotes a chunk of the article on the woes of operating the “Admiral Kuznetsov” aircraft carrier. The author also slants his article towards a perception of Russia’s naval ambitions being blunted by financial woes. (Russia Insider 15 May 2017).

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What the Jamestown author does show is the fact that the Russian Navy is concentrating its efforts on frigates type ships rather than carriers or Mistral type Amphibious Helicopter ships. Given the need of reconciling divergent interests, 1. Geopolitical necessities, 2. financial restrictions and 3. actual/projected naval operational capabilities, all of which requires careful consideration when designing a surface warship.
What does it mean in real terms, what is a frigate anyway? And how does modern technology blur this definition beyond the traditional concepts of the last 50 years. Going back to basics:

Definition & role of frigate is:
“a warship with a mixed armament, generally lighter than a destroyer (in the US navy, heavier) and of a kind originally introduced for convoy escort work.” And post-war: “also adopted an antiaircraft role.”

In other words, a multi-tasking warship, between approximately 3000-7000 tonnes, with various types of missiles, guns, air defence systems/radars & ASW sensors, designed to either operate autonomously, or as part of a task group, with also the ability to escort merchant ships. A complex naval platform, with multilayered and overlapping systems onboard.

Thus, by their very nature, frigates tend to be the mainstay combat ship of most navies. China has 24 Type 054A frigates in service for example,(with 46 overall), compared to 35 destroyers, whereas India has 11 frigates & 11 destroyers.

The number & use of frigates does vary from navy to navy, depending on its naval doctrine. The designation of ‘frigate’ to ships can be misleading, take for instance, at the moment, the US Navy also has only 1 frigate in commission, the “USS Constitution”.

The US Navy retired its Oliver Hazard Perry frigate class and its intended replacement is the Littoral Combat Ship, (LCS), (8 currently in service) which for a long time riddled with technical glitches & ‘issues’.(Wikipedia 2017). Not quite a frigate but a glorified expensive oversized patrol boat, judging by the comments made in various US reports. (Bloomberg May 2013) (DefenceWorld Net April 2013)

A little bit about shipping and technology in general for context. At a time when shipyards are building bigger and bigger, with container ships of 21,000+ TEU, this shows well how important parts of merchant shipping is increasing vastly in size and rapidly too. Now compare this to the military, where downsizing and automating systems is becoming increasingly the norm and extremely vital for improving combat effectiveness.

The space once filled by battleships, followed by large missile cruisers taking the limelight, is now filled primarily by frigates. Big gun ships became obsolete with improved air power & long-range coastal defences. Not quite the same story with large missile cruisers, as this is largely based on impressive changes in missile technology as well as electronics, computing, engineering miniaturisation & nanotechnology.

Another aspect to consider is flexibility, in other words multi-tasking roles. The US Navy initially took the route of using modular units, (using ISO containers), for its LCS class ships, the idea of being able to change the mission roles of a ship in matter of weeks.

This trailblazing concept has hit a few snags along the way, and as a result it has been reconsidered. (US Navy April 2017). Yet they certainly don’t have the same firepower as a much smaller Russian navy Buyan-M class corvette! [More on that in Part 2].
This nevertheless shows the huge innovative & ambitious design concept that continued expansion of high-tech technology has offered in the naval field in a few decades. Add in, the increased use of unmanned vehicles in a combat role is also a significant step forward. Interestingly, the US Navy is now reconfiguring the LCS into a frigate class. [NB The keywords to retain are flexibility and multi-tasking.]

A comprehensive technical rundown of the top 10 modern frigates from around the world is covered in this article. (Defencyclopedia 2 Jan 2016). Surprisingly the number one spot is a Russian frigate that has not yet entered service.

Background- Russian navy

Back in April 2017, Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu, said that in the near future the main combat ships of the Navy frigates will be like “Admiral Gorshkov”. He stated that: “Such multi-purpose frigates, equipped with long-range precision weapons, should become the Navy’s main combat ships in the near future,” (TASS 21 April 2017).He continued by adding “Their commissioning for service will help ensure the smooth renewal of the fleets’ surface forces and raise their combat potential by 30%”.

Several days later, President Putin stated in a defence meeting that “by 2020, the share of modern weapons and equipment both in the Army and Navy should rise to 70%.” (Kremlin.ru 25 April 2017). At the end of 2016, it stood at 47%.
Taking a strictly conservative outlook, yes, the Russian navy has downsized considerably, it is a shadow of what was the Soviet Navy and hadn’t had the opportunity to modernise itself effectively until fairly recently. President Putin termed it this week as : …”navy reboot program…” (TASS 16 May 2017)

The underpinning defence doctrine is largely based on the perception of making Russia secure, as part of “Eurasia” as an entity. Broadly similar to what China is doing. In other words, ensuring a robust defensive posture of what is regarded as being on “home turf”.

When there is news that construction of a an aircraft carrier is being touted in Russia, it is because some defence contractors are trying to position themselves for future potential bids. Yet, the shipyards are busy with mostly submarine or small combatant ship building.

The Russian & Chinese military doctrines are poles apart with that of the US, with its aggressively militarized global ‘exceptionalism’ doctrine, with its 10+ “carriers which are the centerpiece of America’s naval fleet.” (The National Interest 15 May 2017) They are substantially different in approach, methodology and expectations.

The main focus of attention of the Russian Navy is on green-water operations, defending its coastline, close to home first and foremost. Even the US Navy saw the large destroyers would not be effective in shallow waters, hence the introduction of the LCS. However, Russia took out one element out of the US navy convoluted thought process, and went straight for a versatile frigate class warship, ideal for a green water environment, but also having the capability to carry out long-range blue-water missions as necessary. Quite a challenging portfolio for naval designers.
The Jamestown author, however does not mention the obvious fact that there has been a gaping ‘hole’ in the combat capabilities of the Russian navy for several decades. That hole needed to be filled by a dedicated frigate class warship, comparable to the range of sophisticated NATO frigates. The last time there was a frigate class was with the Soviet-era Burevestnik Class frigates (Project 1135).

What does Russia have on the table that makes a shift towards a ‘frigate-centric’ navy purposeful?

Basically, Russia had almost a clean slate when designing its new frigates, taking into consideration, the capabilities of its ‘competitors’ but also its domestic defence needs & power projection. But having a clean slate also means encountering problems along the way.

The US Navy too has experienced that quite clearly & persistently with its LCS program. However, undertaking such a design also meant halting & reversing significant long-term decline in Russian naval research and development. Despite having limited access to Western naval shipbuilders know-how, (mostly through the Mistral class contract), Russian naval constructors still lag behind their Western & Asian counterparts.

Which Russian Navy fleets will get the modern frigates first designed back in 1997 and 2003 respectively ? One, the Admiral Essen”, has its permanent home port as part of the Black Sea Fleet, joining the “Admiral Grigorovich”, (TASS 5 May 2017).”By the end of the year the Black Sea fleet will receive two new frigates”.

The ‘Grigorovich class’ (Project 11356Р/М), it is a multi-purpose frigate: Role: AD- ASW- Escort. Full displacement: 4,035 tons. Length:124.8m and 60,900 shp
The successor to the Burevestnik class, based on a proven design originating in the proven Indian Talwar class, the “Admiral Grigorovich” class is an alternative to the “Admiral Gorshkov” class. This particular class were constructed as a stop-gap measure, largely due to the ongoing problems with construction of the “Admiral Gorshkov”. Not as powerful, but still with a good overall capability as a frigate.

The “Admiral Grigorovich” itself has already gained some ‘notoriety’, judging by the hype of the MSM articles written about it so far. This now famous frigate initially earned its reputation for taking part in Syrian operations back in 2015, with a series of Kalibr launches against terrorists targets. US naval expert, J. Harley remarked that the Russian Navy was a key factor in the Syrian campaign, something that was inconceivable 15 years previously. [Harley, Jeffrey A. “Meeting operational needs. President’s forum.” Naval War College Review, Winter 2017, p. 7+. Academic OneFile]

Not taking MSM articles at face value, but the latest missile technology suite presented onboard a frigate such as the “Admiral Essen”, has twice the main weapon capacity of a Sovremmeny class destroyer with 8 Moskits. Another example of the technological leap would be the Soviet Kynda class cruiser with the SSN3 missile unit onboard. It was so bulky that reloads were limited to 16 missiles in total capacity. Now compare its size and capacity with that of the “Admiral Grigorovich” class.

Interestingly, the Black Sea Fleet is earmarked to have all 4 of this class. So the Northern Sea and Pacific Sea Fleets aren’t expected to have this warship class at all. The last 2 of this class are earmarked to be sold to India, as announced by the USC shipyard in August 2017.

‘Admiral Gorshkov-class’ frigates- (Project 22350): Role: AD-ASW- escort.
A Project 22350 frigate has a displacement of 4,550 tons, with a length of 135m. The capacity of its diesel-gas-turbine power plant is 65,000 hp.

As exemplified in this video:


Project 22350 ‘Admiral Gorshkov’ frigate was earmarked to be a jewel in the Russian Navy’s combat inventory. Beset by a long-running series of technical problems since the start, it is intended as the successor to the ‘Krivak’ class.

Although it was originally planned to have 6 built by 2020, (Lenta 5 May 16), only two more Admiral Gorshkov-class frigates are expected to be commissioned into the Russian Navy by 2020. (TASS 5 March 2017) and with another 2 anticipated by 2025. (RIA 16 May 2017)

This is largely due to the non-availability of appropriate marine turbines. However, the start of a domestically-produced serial production of such turbines planned for next year, should help to clear up the hold-up in construction programs at a later date (RIA Novosti Dec 2016). This is so significant that President Putin opened a production line for marine gas turbines at the Saturn, (NPO),company earlier in the year.

“Admiral Makarov”,(on sea missile trials) is also in its final stages of operational acceptance, as of late April, as shown on Russian TV (April 2017). The Northern Sea Fleet is the intended recipient for all of these frigates.

“Admiral Makarov” photo gallery
Video of trials in Russian
Video of trials “Shtil-1” on “Admiral Makarov”

Significantly, the head of Naval Shipbuilding, Vladimir Trapeznikov, said that “after the Navy receives four project 22350 frigates, the project will be upgraded.” (RIA 16 May 2017). Notice ‘upgrade’, not new blue-sky new off-the-wall design, well meant design concept similar to what the US Navy envisaged with the LCS program but instead ended up in a mess. [Which is probably why the Russian Navy ‘Lider-Class’ has not gone ahead as originally scheduled].

Limitations in physical numbers of frigates have been offset by a versatile missile technology, which allows a small ship to have a formidable missile capability. Probably what Defence Minister Shoigu’s quote of raising combat potential by 30% was referring to.

Missiles are the post WW2 naval game changers, take for example: the destruction of the ‘Eilat’ and the sinking of HMS ‘Sheffield’. Both changed the naval dimension of conflict and subsequently redefined the types & roles of warships, in response to the missile threat.

At the heart of the Russian navy modernisation program is the Kalibr cruise missile, first in service in 2012. It is a tremendous potent force multiplier for the Russian military overall and makes the Russian Navy significantly more powerful & with greater range, proportionally to its overall tonnage.

A self-contained, compact, multi-purpose frigate is extremely useful for general high-end naval missions. This is what we are seeing (as a microcosm) in Syria of late, more so that there the “Admiral Essen” & “Admiral Grigorovich” have been together as part of the Mediterranean Squadron. (TASS 5 May 2017)

The predominantly use of frigates and corvettes, (which I will cover in Part II) are sufficient to give Russia an effective security/defence buffer zone, with the added benefit of a long-range strike capacity. As testified in this US navy document “The new technologically advanced Russian Navy, increasingly armed with the Kalibr family of weapons, will be able to more capably defend the maritime approaches to the Russian Federation and exert significant influence in adjacent seas”.

[NB: Yeah – those ‘adjacent areas’ so coveted by NATO as sole property, is being slowly contested by Russian sea power.]

Quickly outlining the types of Kalibrs in naval use on warships:

SURFACE SHIP SUBMARINE
Anti-ship variant Land-attack Variant Anti-ship variant Land-attack Variant
3M54T 3M14T 3M54K 3M14K
VLS VLS _ _
Thrust Vectoring boosters Thrust Vectoring boosters _ _
440-660km range 1.500-2.500km range 440-660km range 1.500-2.500km range

The Kalibr is designated the SS-N-27 Sizzler by NATO and LACM has NATO designation of SS-N-30A. The Russian cruise missile counterpart to the well-known U.S Navy Tomahawk, made its world combat debut on 7 October 2015, launched from Mediterranean and Caspian Sea based Buyan-class corvettes.

The ship-based Kalibr cruise missile is deployed from a VLS (Vertical Launch System: a ‘cell’, part of the UKSK module), based on 2x 4-missile tubular configuration. The advantage of this, is that missiles can clear the hull of the ship before igniting. Thus a ship can launch a series of high-precision strikes on shore targets from a distance of thousands of kilometers. Another variant is the 3C-14 box missile launcher unit, (more rectangular at deck level).

Russia continues to use Kalibrs against terrorist infrastructures in Syria, in which both the ‘Admiral Essen” and “Admiral Grigorovich” have played a significant role so far and likely to continue to do so for the time being.

The use of ship-borne missile strikes during the Syrian campaign is a classic example of what is cited as being “liquid warfare”, liquid warfare being “a way of war that shuns the direct control of territory, focusing instead on the destruction of enemy forces and/or infrastructure.”[Mutschler, Max M. “Liquid warfare as a challenge to international order.”]

In other words, something that had been the exclusive domain of the US and NATO, has also been harnessed by Russia.

The small numbers of current & planned Russian Navy frigates have been largely offset by the combat proven versatile Kalibr missile and other advanced electronic technology. It was probably hoped that the Russian Navy in the next decade would have shifted towards a ‘frigate- centric’ navy, but this in fact hasn’t happened, due to the small numbers and limitations on power plants, shipbuilding and design parameters. Yet at the same time, focus has also been geared towards a ‘corvette-centric’ navy, which will be covered more in Part 2.

Source: The Saker

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karthik S » 23 Nov 2017 21:49

Anyone knows status of INS Visakhapatnam? Should be pretty much done by now and sea trials should start considering it's to be commissioned mid next year.


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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 26 Nov 2017 08:45

The wind in India’s sails
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-indi ... SKBN1DM0UB

By Admiral Arun Prakash (Retd)

It must stay with Quad. It offers space for economic consolidation, strategic autonomy

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 26 Nov 2017 09:07

Indian Navy the odd man out in Asia's 'Quad' alliance
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-indi ... SKBN1DM0UB

“What the Americans want is 2017 - drop a pin on Google maps and hit share. You know where your friend is and he knows where your house is and how to get to it.”

Does that mean our "friend" gets to visit every room in our house? Can we have a reciprocal visit to every room in our friend's home? Perhaps we can learn how to decorate our home and live better in the bargain. I am all for jointmanship, interoperability, military exercises...but India's interests must never be sacrificed.

At the Indian Military Academy (IMA) at Khadakwasla, Pune Dehradun, there is a saying (from Field Marshal Sir Philip Chetwode) etched on a plaque and known as the Chetwode Motto. It says...

The safety, honour and welfare of your country come first, always and every time.
The honour, welfare and comfort of the men you command come next.
Your own ease, comfort and safety come last, always and every time.


With the utmost respect to the memory of Field Marshal Sir Philip Chetwode and to every IMA graduate that speaks those words when he/she passes out from there, allow me to replace a few of the above words and say the following;

The interests of Hindustan and Her citizens come first, always and every time.
Our shared interests, threat perceptions and areas of convergence come next.
Your OWN interests come last, always and every time.


We need to adopt that motto with every country that we have a relationship with. Have a constructive relationship, one based on a level playing field. Unfortunately we have dalals in India who will sell the country out and then have the cheek to give philosophy and moral lectures to others who do not tow the line.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rahul M » 26 Nov 2017 10:24

beautifully said, admiral !

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Singha » 26 Nov 2017 12:04

It was a shocking and epic day when the caspian sea
Flotilla unleashed its first barrage followed shortly by
Bears and blackjacks releasing kh55 and kh101

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby deejay » 26 Nov 2017 12:12

IMA is at Dehradun.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 26 Nov 2017 21:43

Oops. Corrected and Thank You Deejay.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karan M » 26 Nov 2017 22:37

well said Admiral.
Getting tired of all this, join this and that alliance BS.

Push comes to shove, we will have to face PRC alone. Best we fix our own MIC and not rely on strangers bearing gifts. Didn't work out too well for the other Indians as well. Navajo, Cherokee etc.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 26 Nov 2017 22:52

Truly did the Iroquois say that "the white man speaks with a forked tongue". How the US deals with rogue state with WMDs, Pak, will determine our futures course of action.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby VishalJ » 27 Nov 2017 16:37

del.
Last edited by Rahul M on 27 Nov 2017 23:17, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: this is the Indian Navy thread

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby arijitkm » 30 Nov 2017 00:25

Indian Navy Purchase of Sikorsky Seahawks On Again? IDRW

..........

the Indian government is considering procuring 16 S-70Bs plus eight options via the U.S. Foreign Military Sales (FMS) procedure.

......

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Cybaru » 30 Nov 2017 00:50

I think these foreign sellers always get us to buy piecemeal so that the cost per piece jumps us if we had to put in a line to make it ourselves. What a shame. Sign a large enough order and get TASL to assemble these things and perhaps make large parts of the fuselage and other things at home. #EpicFAiL

The pro for this behavior is that eventually N-IMRH will come around and we can stop adding piecemeal replacements.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 30 Nov 2017 01:04

+108 Cy. Just buy the S-70B. That is the IN's choice.

Indian Navy Purchase of Sikorsky Seahawks On Again?
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... awks-again

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 30 Nov 2017 01:22

India's Warships Can Now Refuel And Rearm At Singapore Naval Base
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/wary-of ... se-1781527

The increased defence cooperation between India and Singapore has to be seen in the context of the major military challenge that they face from China.


Would encourage Indian Naval ships to come to Singapore: Defence Minister Ng Eng Hen - Might freeze. So visit via desktop PC.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst

Asked if Singapore would allow operational turnaround to Indian Naval ships at their naval base, Ng said: "I would respond categorically -- I would not just be comfortable, I would encourage the Indian Navy to visit Changi Naval Base more often."

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 30 Nov 2017 01:25

Indian Navy conducts successful MRSAM firing from INS Kochi
https://citytoday.news/indian-navy-cond ... ins-kochi/

The Indian Navy on Tuesday conducted successful trial firing of Medium Range Surface to Air Missile (MRSAM) from its frontline destroyer INS Kochi, the second ship of the Kolkata Class destroyers. The ship successfully tracked and intercepted the aerial target at enhanced ranges with pinpoint accuracy. This firing marked a significant milestone in proving the successful integration of these missiles with the ship-borne systems including the indigenously developed combat management system. INS Kochi is one of the country’s most potent warships and the second ship of the Kolkata-class stealth guided-missile destroyers built for the Indian Navy.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 30 Nov 2017 01:29

ENC will be a potent force in the Indian Ocean Region, says ENC Chief
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 134374.ece

ENC to host aircraft carrier INS Vikrant and forward base for MIG 29K fighters

From possessing a couple of Foxtrot class Russian submarines, a few Petya Class frigates and old destroyers, the Eastern Naval Command over the last five decades has grown to be a force to reckon with in the Bay of Bengal and the Indian Ocean. Headquartered at Visakhapatnam, today the command boasts a strong blue water force with state-of-the-art Shivalik class multi-role frigates, indigenously built Kiltan-class anti-submarine corvettes, Rajput-class guided-missile destroyers, Sindhughosh (Kilo-class) submarines and Akula-class nuclear submarine.

Talking to The Hindu on the occasion of ‘Swarna Varsha’ (golden jubilee) celebrations, Flag Officer Commanding-in-Chief of Eastern Naval Command Vice-Admiral Karambir Singh said the command is poised for a higher trajectory, and by 2027, it is going to be the biggest naval force in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR), dominating a vast region from the Gulf of Mannar to the east of Malacca Strait and beyond the Sunda Strait. “Though our main base is in Visakhapatnam, we have facilities across the eastern coast from West Bengal to Tamil Nadu, and in the next decade we intend expand our surface ships from about 30 at present to close to 60, he said. As per the vision of the Indian Navy, the plan is to have close to 198 to 200 floating assets, including surface ships, and we expect the ENC to have anything between 60 and 70 ships, which is a huge force going by global standards,” he pointed out.

INS Vikrant

Going by the navy’s blue print of three-carrier fleet, the stage is set to assign the new air defence ship INS Vikrant, that is being built in Kochi, to Visakhapatnam. “Vikrant will be assigned to ENC and Visakhaptnam will be its base and it will operate across the region. The aim is to have a three-carrier fleet by 2027 and as per the plan, INS Vikramaditya will be based in the western command and Vikrant will be in ENC,” he said.

Major Air Base

The Naval Airbase in Visakhapatnam INS Dega will also house the MiG 29K squadron. “The plans are through, the funds have been sanctioned, we are awaiting the arrival INS Vikrant,” he said. According to the ENC chief, the air arm of ENC has also grown from being ‘a few helicopter’ force to a powerful force with fighter aircraft like MiG 29K and the sophisticated Boeing P-8I Neptune surveillance and anti-submarine anti-surface aircraft.

Nuclear Base

It is a known fact that Visakhapatnam is going to be base for the country’s most effective strategic weapon, but the Vice-Admiral was non-committal about it. INS Varsha, which is also known as the Naval Alternate Operating Base (NAOB), will be the base for country’s nuclear submarines such as INS Arihant and INS Aridhaman. “These are strategic projects and come under the PMO (Prime Minister’s Office), and all I can say is that the construction of the base is in full swing,” he said. But according to him, the third dimension of the navy — the submarine arm — has grown leaps and bounds from a humble beginning in December 1967. The submarine arm is also celebrating its golden jubilee along with the ENC.

Bigger Role

According to Vice-Admiral Karambir Singh, the navy, and ENC in particular, is not only to be viewed as fighting force, but also for its role in diplomacy. “The ENC sits astride the world’s busiest shipping lane that converge Malacca and Sunda straits. The ENC, therefore, has an important role in ensuring India’s global commitment towards safe and secure seas in this region. Being a major stakeholder in the region, we play the role of net security provider to being the first responder in times of calamity,” said the ENC Chief.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 30 Nov 2017 06:18

Rakesh wrote:Indian Navy conducts successful MRSAM firing from INS Kochi
https://citytoday.news/indian-navy-cond ... ins-kochi/

The Indian Navy on Tuesday conducted successful trial firing of Medium Range Surface to Air Missile (MRSAM) from its frontline destroyer INS Kochi, the second ship of the Kolkata Class destroyers. The ship successfully tracked and intercepted the aerial target at enhanced ranges with pinpoint accuracy. This firing marked a significant milestone in proving the successful integration of these missiles with the ship-borne systems including the indigenously developed combat management system. INS Kochi is one of the country’s most potent warships and the second ship of the Kolkata-class stealth guided-missile destroyers built for the Indian Navy.


https://twitter.com/indiandefencera/sta ... 2488315904 --> INS Kochi conducts successful Medium Range Surface-to-Air Missile firing.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby srin » 30 Nov 2017 07:40

^^ when did it become MRSAM in Navy use ? Wasn't Barak-8 in Navy called LRSAM ?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 30 Nov 2017 17:08

If the S-70s were chosen earlier, and for whatever reason delays sealing the deal saw prices escalate, we are to blame.In the interests of the IN desperate for ASW helos, let them buy the helos for heaven's sake.We havd to bite the bullet. We did the same for extra Talwars,etc. missing out on extras at old prices.Bargain and get the best price but have a contest for the remaining 100+ req. where local manufacture is a must.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 01 Dec 2017 11:51

Periscope: Our Navy needs underwater boost

Arun Kumar Singh : Vice Admiral Arun Kumar Singh retired as Commander-in-Chief of the Navy's Eastern Naval Command in 2007. A nuclear and missile specialist trained in the former Soviet Union, he was also DG Indian Coast Guard.

On December 4, Navy Day, President Ram Nath Kovind, vice-president M. Venkaiah Naidu, Prime Minister Narendra Modi, defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman along with the three service chiefs and bureaucrats are expected to attend the traditional tea party at Navy House in New Delhi. A few days later, on December 8, the President will review a ceremonial parade at the naval base in Visakhapatnam where the President’s Colours will be presented to the Submarine Arm of the Indian Navy on the 50th anniversary of its foundation day (the Indian tricolour was first hoisted on our first submarine INS Kalvari at Riga, Latvia, on December 8, 1967).

The original INS Kalvari was decommissioned a few years ago but its reincarnation will rejoin the Indian Navy on December 14, when the Navy is formally expected to commission the first French-designed Scorpene-class submarine (built by Mazagaon Docks Limited, Mumbai) as INS Kalvari, in the presence of the Prime Minister. Henceforth, five indigenous Scorpene-class subs will join the Navy, at the rate of one every year. As a former naval officer and submariner, I hope that the President, the Prime Minister and the defence minister will find time to spend a few hours underwater in a submarine as was done in the past by Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi, President A.P.J. Abdul Kalam and defence minister George Fernandes. Given the recent tragic sinking of the 32-year-old Argentinean submarine ARA San Juan on November 15, 2017 with the loss of her entire crew of 44, it is vital that the Indian Navy gets funding for additional subs, more so as 11 of its 13 conventional subs have crossed their designed life of 25 years; eight of these are over 30 years of age.

With India joining the joint secretary-level talks in Manila last month for the proposed Quadrilateral, or “Quad”, of the US, Japan, India and Australia, to ensure safety and freedom of seas, this basically maritime organisation, if it fructifies, will need India to increase the size of its largely home-built Navy by greatly increasing its miserly naval annual budget of about $5 billion (Chinese Navy budget is $40 billion) starting with the next budget in February 2018. I doubt if the proposed Quad would take the form of a military alliance, nevertheless it may result in sharing real-time intelligence and maritime domain awareness (MDA), cooperation in tracking Chinese subs and warships in the Indian Ocean along with possible coordination of activities to combat piracy and maritime terror. With or without the Quad, the Navy needs additional funds and political support.

I write this article with the experience of having visited and been briefed at ship, submarine, aircraft and missile-building facilities in India and abroad. One encouragement our domestic industry needs is long-term investment and economies of scale. It is my opinion that top priority should be given to the infrastructure development for maritime operations in our long-neglected and strategically-located Andaman and Nicobar, and Lakshadweep and Minicoy Islands.

While the Indian Navy is doing extremely well with about 44 indigenous ships and submarines (another 20 more are expected to be contracted for soon) in Indian shipyards, there exist some critical shortcomings. In my last article, Sitharaman’s to-do list for next 16 months published in this newspaper on September 8, 2017, I had listed three items which would need urgent government approval for domestic production — viz conventional and nuclear subs (SSK, SSN, SSBN), mine counter-measures vessels and light (four tonnes) and medium (12 tonnes) multi-role ship-borne helicopters. Indeed the Indian Navy, which has over the last 60 years built up a team of highly competent warship and submarine design specialists, now needs to consider inducting design specialists for aircraft, helicopter as well as the UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles). And since Artificial Intelligence (AI) is the future of human progress and also warfare, it is vital for the Navy to create a cadre of AI specialists. Also, since I am unaware of the results of the Indo-US talks on building a 65,000-tonne aircraft carrier (IAC2) in India, with the latest electric propulsion and EMALS (electro-magnetic aircraft launch system), I have not written about it here. I am happy that the Navy has finally decided that IAC2 will not be nuclear-propelled.

I now come to some articles in the press criticising the Indian Navy for “abandoning” the indigenous light combat aircraft (LCA-Navy) jet fighter project, and sending an RFI (request for information) for 57 foreign twin-engine jet fighters needed to operate from the indigenous aircraft carrier Vikrant (IAC-1) when it becomes operational in 2021, and also for the planned IAC-2. The actual facts about LCA (Navy) are that the HAL-designed LCA Tejas, made for the IAF, was heavier by one tonne and the naval version which required additional modifications (a “drooped nose” for better pilot visibility and a strengthened undercarriage with tail hook for arrester wire landing system on a carrier) was two tonnes overweight. Trials ashore on the Shore-Based Test Facility in Goa, which replicates an aircraft-carrier flight deck on land, indicated that the LCA (Navy) in its present form could not take off within the 195-metre deck runway space with any worthwhile load and neither could it land on the carrier. But true to its faith in indigenisation, the Indian Navy continues to fund the naval version of LCA Mk2 with a more powerful American engine GE 414, replacing the present GE 404 which powers the LCA Mk1.


Lastly, given the enormous in-house expertise available and capability built-up of domestic vendors for nuclear submarines, India urgently needs to commence domestic production of SSNs in a separate production line. The only Indian platform capable of stealthily tracking Chinese warships in the Indian Ocean and also patrolling in the western Pacific to deter China is the SSN. Hopefully, the February 2018 defence budget may bring good news for a home-built, balanced and three-dimensional Indian Navy.


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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 01 Dec 2017 12:23

IN PRess Conf Today

Falling Naval capital budget have been raised by me with the ministry, hoping it will be resolved - Admiral Lanba.

Process has started on the Indian SSN nuclear submarine program - Navy Chief.

In future if Chinese ships are deployed at Gwadar it will pose a security challenge which we will look at and mitigate - Admiral Lanba.

A submarine is not the ideal platform to conduct anti piracy operations - Navy Chief on Chinese deployments in Gulf of Aden

Sooner than later we will have lady officers serving onboard Navy warships - Admiral Lanba.

"I need a deck based combat capable fighter by 2020 for IAC I, in present state, LCA Navy cannot be operated from deck" - Admiral Lanba

Looking at both EMALS and AAG (advanced arrester gear) technologies for our future aircraft carrier - Navy Chief Admiral Lanba.

Progressing on IAC II (new aircraft carrier), will be a conventionally powered CATOBAR, 65,000 ton ship - Admiral Lanba.

IAC-2 will be 65,000 ton, conventionally powered. we are taking case to the ministry for acquisition. CNS Adm Lanba.

Don't see any financial constraints on acquisition of 57 new deck based fighter jets. The process will go forward - Admiral Lanba

Navy will have a RFP out for new Naval fighter jets by mid of next year - Admiral Lanba.

On INS Chakra accident Navy Chief says two sonar panels were damaged, repairs being done.

Navy Chief clears the air on Reports of US team visiting INS Chakra. Says no American team has even seen the submarine.

Admiral Lanba - President's colours to be presented to submarine arm on December 8 on occasion of 50 years of operations.

Have identified Rs 40000 cr worth projects for the private sector. 23 private companies have qualified to participate - Navy Chief Admiral​ Lanba

India will become a select nation in the Indian Ocean Region with submarine rescue capabilities with induction of DSRVs next year - Navy Chief

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Chinmay » 01 Dec 2017 14:44

Falling Naval capital budget have been raised by me with the ministry, hoping it will be resolved

Don't see any financial constraints on acquisition of 57 new deck based fighter jets. The process will go forward


These two statements contradict one another.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby tsarkar » 01 Dec 2017 19:39

Navy Day official video https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GqVIqgdeNCQ

Note the wire guidance spool connected to the back of the torpedo

Small arms including Carl Gustaf aboard a ship

And the effects on the target ship getting hit towards the end

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby deejay » 01 Dec 2017 19:47

Very impressive video. Thank you for sharing.


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