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Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

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kit
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby kit » 25 Dec 2017 18:17

deWalker wrote:


Thanks for supporting my laziness, kit :) . The request from the US makes sense, as they are apparently opening the kimono and sharing IP. My earlier comment was that when we buy OEM equipment, there is no IP / patent obligation to folllow - in the context of HDW, Scorpene etc.

Cheers

Diwakar


I think it is meant that the tech shared with indian partners doesn't find its way to other products without their knowledge ? upteen ways around it as china has amply demonstrated !!

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 28 Dec 2017 00:57

Navy's Rs 2,000 crore order is wind in HSL's sails
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 245151.cms

26 Dec 2017

Hindustan Shipyard Ltd has won a contract to build two diving support vessels (DSV) for the Indian Navy, chairman and managing director of HSL, Rear Admiral (Retd) LV Sarath Babu said on Monday. Talking to TOI, Admiral Sarath Babu said each of the DSVs would cost Rs 1,000 crore The DSV is used by the Indian Navy to help in emergencies like a submarine sinking, or to provide material to submarines He said HSL had won the contract through a competitive bidding process. "We have completed the price negotiations, and expect to sign the work contract soon," Admiral Sarath Babu said. The first DSV would be delivered within three years of getting the contract, and the second one will be due for delivery within 12 months of the delivery of the first vessel. Asked whether HSL had the capabilities to build the specialised vessels, the HSL chairman said the shipyard, which was set up in 1941, had the wherewithal in terms of technology and manpower to design, construct and deliver the vessels to the Indian Navy on time. "For highly specialised technology and labour, we will bring in outside consultants for the purpose, but we will deliver the vessels to the Indian Navy's satisfaction and also on time," Admiral Sarath Babu said.

The Navy contract has come at the right time for HSL, which is struggling to stay afloat as orders for ships dried up several years ago forcing it to depend mainly on ship repairing works to stay in business. The retired rear admiral said apart from the DSV contract, HSL was also being considered to repair an Indian Navy submarine "The repair work is for medium-term retrofit and life certification As part of the contract, we will increase the life span of the submarine's service by seven years," he said. The submarine retrofit contract is expected to last for at least three years HSL is expected to get the contract in early 2018 "HSL will now have enough work for the next few years The only major issue we have to handle is the legacy issue of the company's losses," he said The company had appealed to the Union government for a financial restructuring package. If the government approves the restructuring, HSL's negative net worth of Rs 75051 crore would be erased from its books In FY 2016-17, HSL posted revenues of Rs 65008 crore with an operational profit of Rs 38 crore Operational profit of a company is the profit before interest and taxes.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 28 Dec 2017 01:07

Out at sea: on the Indian Ocean Region
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/o ... 288666.ece

India should remain a balancing power, and anchored in the Indian Ocean


Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby sudeepj » 28 Dec 2017 07:31

Out at sea: on the Indian Ocean Region
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/o ... 288666.ece
The author claims:
More importantly, it would not be an exaggeration to say that India has always been wooed by both sides and has been a balancing power on the world stage.


I am not sure how China has tried to 'woo' India. The Chinese junta remains the single greatest entity that has harmed India greatly beyond all rules of civilized behavior. Whether its giving the Pakis nukes, tactical weapons, political cover, investment.. The list goes on. China could woo India, but for that it needs to completely stop its patronage of the Pakistan jihadis, remove objections to NSG and security council membership and commit to open access to markets. If not, the glint of Indian steel will be seen in the Indo Pacific.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby tsarkar » 28 Dec 2017 13:38

John wrote:What is most puzzling is we had access to U-209 blue print (which is considered one of best post cold war diesel submarine designs) and could have continued building it and improving on it.

Poor financial condition of India in the 90's and blacklisting of HDW "products" that made it untouchable. We had Bofors ToT too and the guns could've been built at OFB in the 90's itself had the "product" not been blacklisted.

India is funny - useful inanimate products are blamed and blacklisted while crooked people walk free.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby John » 28 Dec 2017 21:35

tsarkar wrote:
John wrote:What is most puzzling is we had access to U-209 blue print (which is considered one of best post cold war diesel submarine designs) and could have continued building it and improving on it.

Poor financial condition of India in the 90's and blacklisting of HDW "products" that made it untouchable. We had Bofors ToT too and the guns could've been built at OFB in the 90's itself had the "product" not been blacklisted.

India is funny - useful inanimate products are blamed and blacklisted while crooked people walk free.

Yea i understand but it seems we never truly learn the lesson from the mistakes. Chances are Scorpene design is going to be forgotten and we are going jump to the next newest SSK model for absurd $$ and start inducting them in 2030s.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby nachiket » 29 Dec 2017 01:01

John wrote:Yea i understand but it seems we never truly learn the lesson from the mistakes. Chances are Scorpene design is going to be forgotten and we are going jump to the next newest SSK model for absurd $$ and start inducting them in 2030s.

There is the small matter of the huge data leak concerning the Scorpene subs. Even the ones we're currently building could prove to be a liability in wartime depending on the situation. I was all for building 6 more scorpene's for P-75I before that happened.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby V_Raman » 29 Dec 2017 01:23

So there is no use for the HDW line which built the Shishumar class boats?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby John » 29 Dec 2017 05:22

nachiket wrote:
John wrote:Yea i understand but it seems we never truly learn the lesson from the mistakes. Chances are Scorpene design is going to be forgotten and we are going jump to the next newest SSK model for absurd $$ and start inducting them in 2030s.

There is the small matter of the huge data leak concerning the Scorpene subs. Even the ones we're currently building could prove to be a liability in wartime depending on the situation. I was all for building 6 more scorpene's for P-75I before that happened.

Scorpene design can be modified to fit our needs which would make leaked data irrelevant for subs built on new platform. But it seems like parties involved are trying to use that as an excuse to start another procurement process for another submarine design.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby tsarkar » 29 Dec 2017 10:12

V_Raman wrote:So there is no use for the HDW line which built the Shishumar class boats?
^^ Being used to maintain & refit existing submarines. The equipment is 30 years old and technology has evolved.

We had licenses for two additional submarines that we should have built in the 2000's when economy improved. Post 1999 after Kargil, Bofors blacklist was lifted and so should have HDW's

Scorpene ToT was barely 30%, and no one has worked on DE submarines (all indigenous effort focussed on 4 nuclear submarine designs), a new RFP for design for DE submarine makes sense. Hopefully better negotiated.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 29 Dec 2017 15:05

From a simple cost point of view Scorpenes are prohibitively expensive.Non AIP too.Far better to concentrate on building the 6 Desi SSNs.DE subs to replace old U-209s and Kilos can be either new U-boats or Amur's, prod.restarted .MDL can build the U-boats under P-75I and a pvt. yard Amurs.From 2030+onwards a new Desi design combining the best of both east and west which along with the exg. boats take care of the IOR reqs.

China is building 2 conv/AIP subs each yr and almost one N-sub too.If China possesses around 80 modern subs we should have at least 36- 40.Ideally 24 AIP subs and 16 N - subs including 6-8 SSBNs.

One point we must remember is not to try and emulate OZ in trying to turn a conv. sub into an ersatz nuclear sub.We require large numbers of DE/AIP subs that are good at the HUK role primarily, easy to build and easy on the purse.Increased automation with smaller crews giving more space for weaponry, sensors, fuel, etc. Look how difficult it is trying to locate the missing German built sub.Smaller conv. subs in numbers can allow us to monitor and sanitise the choke points and patrol the increasing regions of the IOR and beyond.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby jaysimha » 29 Dec 2017 20:53

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION (RFI) FOR MODERNISATION OF
NAVAL AIRCRAFT YARDS AT GOA AND KOCHI

https://www.indiannavy.nic.in/sites/def ... c%2017.pdf

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby jaysimha » 29 Dec 2017 20:54

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION (RFI) FOR CONSTRUCTION OF SIX HIGH SPEED LANDING CRAFT (HSLC) FOR INDIAN NAVY
https://www.indiannavy.nic.in/sites/def ... p%2017.pdf

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 30 Dec 2017 10:38

tsarkar wrote:
John wrote:What is most puzzling is we had access to U-209 blue print (which is considered one of best post cold war diesel submarine designs) and could have continued building it and improving on it.

Poor financial condition of India in the 90's and blacklisting of HDW "products" that made it untouchable. We had Bofors ToT too and the guns could've been built at OFB in the 90's itself had the "product" not been blacklisted.

India is funny - useful inanimate products are blamed and blacklisted while crooked people walk free.


'Useful inanimate .....'well said. Captures everything.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 30 Dec 2017 11:29

Good Video of Indian Scorpene class INS Kalvari in Action

Watch India's Deadliest Sub INS Kalvari Dive Underwater, Shoot Missiles

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karthik S » 30 Dec 2017 14:59

Image
SpokespersonNavy‏Verified account @indiannavy
Follow Follow @indiannavy
More
@makeinindia Another feather in cap of Mazagon Docks Ltd. Keel of 1st ship of Project 17A Stealth frigates laid by VAdm DM Deshpande CWP&A. Would be the 1st ship 2b built using modular construction indigenously @DefenceMinIndia @nsitharaman @SpokespersonMoD @Cmdmdl

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby dinesh_kimar » 30 Dec 2017 15:15

^ The above video talks abt "Permasyn" motors , which, IIRC, is made by Siemens. The 2 x diesel engine comes from MAN. So looks like significant German input in the "move" category.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 30 Dec 2017 16:58

विशेष कार्यक्रम: आईएनएस कलवरी से कलवरी तक


Philip
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 31 Dec 2017 08:15

Wishing all aV.Happy New Year, Cheers everyone!

Great to see P-17A's keel being laid.Good v-clips too.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby abhik » 31 Dec 2017 15:04

Karthik S wrote:...
SpokespersonNavy‏Verified account @indiannavy
Follow Follow @indiannavy
More
@makeinindia Another feather in cap of Mazagon Docks Ltd. Keel of 1st ship of Project 17A Stealth frigates laid by VAdm DM Deshpande CWP&A. Would be the 1st ship 2b built using modular construction indigenously @DefenceMinIndia @nsitharaman @SpokespersonMoD @Cmdmdl

As per wiki last P17 frigate was laid down in 2003 - almost a decade and half ago! :( Oh well, better late than never onlee.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karthik S » 31 Dec 2017 15:30

That should be Project 17 this is the next version 17A.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby andy B » 31 Dec 2017 15:36

dinesh_kimar wrote:^ The above video talks abt "Permasyn" motors , which, IIRC, is made by Siemens. The 2 x diesel engine comes from MAN. So looks like significant German input in the "move" category.


Dineshji Man diesels are an excellent choice and probably best in the business. Their diesels are across all types of civil and naval platforms. While I cannot say on how good they are operationally (though i reckon they are excellent as have seen them deployed across FFGs DDGs Fleet tankers LPDS....maybe TSarkar ji or Chetak ji can comment) can certainly say they were great for funding across multiple projects. Hope we are actually learning to build these by ourselves and ripping them apart to learn what we can!

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby abhik » 31 Dec 2017 18:59

Karthik S wrote:That should be Project 17 this is the next version 17A.

What I'm saying is that we have basically not built a single frigate for the last 10+ years, while the PLAN has added something in the order of 20 frigates in the same time frame.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby maz » 01 Jan 2018 00:38

If you are concerned about the PLA Navy, just look at what China's Coast Guard is inducting: Image
Source: East Pendulum @HenriKenhmann

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby maz » 01 Jan 2018 00:58

I hope the IN doubles the ongoing 7 ship P17A order to 14-16 ships. At one stroke, this will solve the numbers problem with major surface combatants and leverage economies of scale.
At the same time, an emphasis on acquiring many more SSK and AIP submarines will pose a serious sea denial capability. They do not have to be best = just good enough platforms. DPRK's ageing sub fleet with cheap and elderly boats possesses an inherent deterrent value far in excess of what they cost. Lastly, building many cheap OPV type ships with modular,containerized mission modules for rapid reconfiguration will maintain visibility and presence on the surface. The loss of an OPV in a notional conflict scenario is far more politically acceptable than a larger ship not to mention platforms like carriers.

So, a notional fleet with 15-16 P-17A plus the many extant platforms, 30 or so OPVs (multirole) and 40-45 or submarines - comprised primarily of the less expensive types - is quite doable. Add to this the 4 LPHs and a sizeable fleet train along with 60 or so dedicated LRMPA/ASW birds, you have a force that has a very credible deterrent power and one that can hold its own and maintain continuous presence at the outer reaches of its AOR.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Eric Leiderman » 01 Jan 2018 02:05

andy B wrote:
dinesh_kimar wrote:^ The above video talks abt "Permasyn" motors , which, IIRC, is made by Siemens. The 2 x diesel engine comes from MAN. So looks like significant German input in the "move" category.


Dineshji Man diesels are an excellent choice and probably best in the business. Their diesels are across all types of civil and naval platforms. While I cannot say on how good they are operationally (though i reckon they are excellent as have seen them deployed across FFGs DDGs Fleet tankers LPDS....maybe TSarkar ji or Chetak ji can comment) can certainly say they were great for funding across multiple projects. Hope we are actually learning to build these by ourselves and ripping them apart to learn what we can!


""
MAN engines are top class I have worked with the medium speed varieties, They have a small footprint , high power density, low mantainence and good relaibility.

We should do what Mitshibushi did with another engine manafacturer namely sulzer. They initially licence produced them and then Started their own line which had a lot of similarities with the parent company, for that to happen India has to build its own supply chain right down to nuts and bolts

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karthik S » 01 Jan 2018 08:00

maz wrote:If you are concerned about the PLA Navy, just look at what China's Coast Guard is inducting: Image
Source: East Pendulum @HenriKenhmann


They look like our Shivalik class.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby abhik » 01 Jan 2018 13:55

A question for the gurus, IN has come out with plans of ~200 ship fleet by 2027 (and so on), Do we know the composition - how many destroyers, frigates etc?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chola » 01 Jan 2018 14:23

Karthik S wrote:
maz wrote:If you are concerned about the PLA Navy, just look at what China's Coast Guard is inducting: Image
Source: East Pendulum @HenriKenhmann


They look like our Shivalik class.


Those chini CG cutters are the same hulls as their 054 frigate. So your impression of them is spot on.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby srai » 01 Jan 2018 18:46

abhik wrote:..., IN has come out with plans of ~200 ship fleet by 2027 (and so on), Do we know the composition - how many destroyers, frigates etc?

Pretty straight forward. Just look at recent acquisitions and order book.

  • 2 x AC -> 1 Kiev; 1 IAC
  • 10 x DDG -> 3 P-15; 3 P-15A; 4 P-15B
  • 16 x FFG -> 6 x Krivak.III; 3 x P-17; 7 x P-17A

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 01 Jan 2018 19:57

Add 6+4 Talwar/Grig., FFGs around 10P-28 corvettes- actually light frigates by dpl., 16 "shallow-water" inshore ASW corvettes, the 4 amphibs of 20K t+, several NOPVs, the 6 high speed LCs announced, and you get a decent idea of the range of acquisitions not to mention subs.

However as the Chins and Sovs before them are pragmatically doing, standardisation of hulls, plants and machinery is required.Tarantula missile corvettes and Pauk ASW corvettes use the same hull.The Pauks the same dunking sonar as Kamov ASW helos too.We aren't seeing as yet a similar policy in India.

Given our increased tasks both in the IOR and without, the need is numbers coupled with capability.Thanks to miniaturization, automation, smaller crews, multi-role corvettes are becoming vessels of choice by many navies.The stunning Kalibir strikes by Buyan 1000-1500t class corvettes in the Syrian conflict show the immense potential of this class.

The IN could build a series of around 16 multi-role corvettes, around 2000t+, with a multi-role helo of NH-90 size, either BMos-NG/Klub/Kalibir/Nirbhay missiles in universal silos, ASW TTs, MBUs, 76mm lightweight main gun with ER munitions, plus a gun/missile BPDMS with a range out to 20KM+ for the SAM's.These would be more affordable than the P-28s which are around 3000t dpl, underarmed and overeight and whose second improved batch would be larger and cost even more.The NOPV hulls are an option but the twin-stacks and slower speed are drawbacks.These corvettes should have good speed , at least 30-35kts. with GT main engines for better sub-hunting;.Remember the high speed of our erstwhile Petyas, around 35 kts.Increasing the number of Shivaliks would pose a financial strain as these are v.expensive warships.The number could be increased to 12 though from 10, same for the Delhi/Kol/Viz DDG class also increased to 12.Same number for the Talwar/ Grig
FFGs.This will provide enough escort warships for the 2 CBGs,amphib assault task forces and other squadrons operating in the blue water arena of the IOR, ICS and elsewhere.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya G » 01 Jan 2018 20:27

From an acquisitions perspective 2017 was a much better year for IN compared to 2015 and 2016. New orders were placed and there was some movement on existing order pipeline as well - the highlight being Kalvari's commissioning.

Order pipeline for IN as of *Nov* 2017:

Indigenous aircraft carrier (INS Vikrant)                          :           1
Project 15B stealth destroyers                                         :           4
Project 17A stealth frigates                                             :           7
Project 1135.6 frigates (from Russia)                               :           4
Project 21 NOPV (Pipavav) : 5
Project 28 corvettes                                                        :           1
Project 75 submarines (Scorpene-class)                           :           6
Anti-Submarine Warfare Shallow Water Craft (ASWC)        :           16
Mine Counter Measure Vessels (MCMV)                             :           12
Hydrography Survey Vessels                                            :           5
Cadet Training Ships                                                        :           3
Naval Offshore Patrol Vessels (NOPV)                                :           5
Deep Sea Rescue Vessels (from UK)                                  :           2
LCU Mk.IV: 06
Landing Platform Docks (LPD)                                           :           4
Fleet Support Ships (FSS)                                                 :           5
Specialist/Research (1 each at HSL and CSL): 02
Diving Support Ships: 2

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby abhik » 01 Jan 2018 20:27

srai wrote:
abhik wrote:..., IN has come out with plans of ~200 ship fleet by 2027 (and so on), Do we know the composition - how many destroyers, frigates etc?

Pretty straight forward. Just look at recent acquisitions and order book.

  • 2 x AC -> 1 Kiev; 1 IAC
  • 10 x DDG -> 3 P-15; 3 P-15A; 4 P-15B
  • 16 x FFG -> 6 x Krivak.III; 3 x P-17; 7 x P-17A

I'm looking for a full breakup of the current 'Aspirational' ~200(or what ever the actual number is) ship fleet year 20xx plan, not just the current projections.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby jaysimha » 01 Jan 2018 22:11

https://www.indiannavy.nic.in/sites/def ... c%2017.pdf

RFP for indigenous development of multifunction display for mig-29K east or west navy is the best

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby VKumar » 01 Jan 2018 22:12

Aditya G wrote:From an acquisitions perspective 2017 was a much better year for IN compared to 2015 and 2016. New orders were placed and there was some movement on existing order pipeline as well - the highlight being Kalvari's commissioning.

Order pipeline for IN as of *Nov* 2017:

Indigenous aircraft carrier (INS Vikrant)                          :           1
Project 15B stealth destroyers                                         :           4
Project 17A stealth frigates                                             :           7
Project 1135.6 frigates (from Russia)                               :           4
Project 21 NOPV (Pipavav) : 5
Project 28 corvettes                                                        :           1
Project 75 submarines (Scorpene-class)                           :           6
Anti-Submarine Warfare Shallow Water Craft (ASWC)        :           16
Mine Counter Measure Vessels (MCMV)                             :           12
Hydrography Survey Vessels                                            :           5
Cadet Training Ships                                                        :           3
Naval Offshore Patrol Vessels (NOPV)                                :           5
Deep Sea Rescue Vessels (from UK)                                  :           2
LCU Mk.IV: 06
Landing Platform Docks (LPD)                                           :           4
Fleet Support Ships (FSS)                                                 :           5
Specialist/Research (1 each at HSL and CSL): 02
Diving Support Ships: 2



What are the fleet support shops? Tankers? Hospital ships? Transporters?

Would MCMV also be able to lay mines?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby jaysimha » 01 Jan 2018 22:23

two contracts for acquisition of three 76/62 super rapid gun mounts and 78 portable diver detection for indian navy have been signed with M/s BHEL BANGAORE and Tata power SED on 2nd NOV and 15th Nov for 272 cr and 99Cr respectively.

Aditya G
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya G » 01 Jan 2018 22:37

Fleet support ships are primarily tankers but will be able to execute more auxillary tasks.

Mines will be laid by submarines I suppose

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby sudeepj » 01 Jan 2018 22:58

Question for the gurus.. How is the Brahmos anti ship missile with a range of 300+ kms, cued? The on board radar of the ship will have at most 1/3rd the full range of the missile for surface targets due to the radar horizon.. So how does the firing platform know that a Paki F22 is at this lat,long and course?

A heliborne radar with surface search capabilities would immediately offer an answer, but I am not sure thats how the INs sense-shoot chain operates.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby jaysimha » 01 Jan 2018 23:12

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/ins- ... 10637.html
Old torpedoes in new sub for Navy By Ajit K Dubey
Is this classic DDM reporting??

"The integration of the torpedoes is still going on but the main weapon for Kalvari would only be the new heavyweight torpedo for which a multi-vendor competition is going to be initiated in the near future," a source said

John
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby John » 02 Jan 2018 04:29

Contract for Grigorovich Frigates has not been signed yet. I wouldn’t include in any list of future vessels yet.

sudeepj wrote:Question for the gurus.. How is the Brahmos anti ship missile with a range of 300+ kms, cued? The on board radar of the ship will have at most 1/3rd the full range of the missile for surface targets due to the radar horizon.. So how does the firing platform know that a Paki F22 is at this lat,long and course?

A heliborne radar with surface search capabilities would immediately offer an answer, but I am not sure thats how the INs sense-shoot chain operates.

It can be programmed to search for targets at given gps coordinate radius, it flies at 15 km altitude so it before it engages terminal phase it can scan and lock on to targets.


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