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Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Katare » 24 Oct 2017 02:05

From CAG report it appears that Kamrota's will get dual layer SAM. Since the report is talking about DRDO developed system (or not yet developed system) which could only mean LRSAM? On Kamrota it'll be Chotta boat with bada danda? Is it feasible for IN to let go Barak1 and only install LRSAM from cost and # of missiles carried POV?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 25 Oct 2017 02:14

First Scorpene to be commissioned in December, French firm eyes follow-on order
https://theprint.in/2017/10/24/first-sc ... -on-order/

Naval Group said that it is offering its new F21 torpedo to the Indian Navy as part of the latter’s new procurement plans and has answered a request for information on the project. “We are offering a torpedo that will be with the nuclear submarines of the French Navy. The torpedo is designed for a nuclear submarine with multiple safety features. Now, we are recommending it for the Indian Navy as well,” Buisson added. The firm said that given its current production facility that is operational, it can deliver 20 torpedoes to India within 24 months if needed on an urgent basis.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 25 Oct 2017 02:56

Rakesh, the F21 torpedo is what type? Electric propulsion?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 25 Oct 2017 03:05

SUT and Varunastra are electric propulsion.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 25 Oct 2017 03:12

ramana wrote:Rakesh, the F21 torpedo is what type? Electric propulsion?

Yes, it has an electric motor.

Honestly, it is the best torpedo to get. I am surprised the French now are willing to sell. Initially, I read they were reluctant. We need to grab this opportunity and get around a 100 of these fishes for the six Scorpenes.

P.S. you can thank the bonhomie between the US and India for this sudden turnaround from France who are eager to do a sign a good number of deals and willing to do MII as well. Pls see Rafale thread.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 25 Oct 2017 03:48

Thanks. After the Kursk fire, even Russians are switching to electric battery run torpedoes.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Ankit Desai » 25 Oct 2017 05:03

Eye on China, India expands naval footprint in Indian Ocean

There are 12 to 15 destroyers, frigates, corvettes and large patrol vessels on long-range deployments in the IOR at any given time now, which are backed by naval satellite Rukmini (GSAT-7) and daily sorties by Poseidon-8I maritime patrol aircraft to keep tabs over the vast oceanic expanse.

The plan is to deploy "mission-ready warships" and aircraft along critical sea lanes of communications as well as "choke points" ranging from the Persian Gulf and Gulf of Aden to the Malacca Strait and Sunda Strait. "This will be done on a 24x7 basis round the year, with the warships being sustained and turned around on station. The Indian Navy has emerged as the net security provider and first responder in the region," said a senior officer.


If a Shivalik-class stealth frigate is currently patrolling the Bay of Bengal towards Bangladesh and Myanmar, then a Teg-class frigate is in the vicinity of Madagascar, Mauritius and Seychelles. Similarly, while frigate INS Trishul is deployed for anti-piracy patrol in the Gulf of Aden, a Kora-class corvette is prowling around the Andaman Sea.


-Ankit

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Cain Marko » 25 Oct 2017 06:54

Ankit Desai wrote:Eye on China, India expands naval footprint in Indian Ocean

There are 12 to 15 destroyers, frigates, corvettes and large patrol vessels on long-range deployments in the IOR at any given time now, which are backed by naval satellite Rukmini (GSAT-7) and daily sorties by Poseidon-8I maritime patrol aircraft to keep tabs over the vast oceanic expanse.

The plan is to deploy "mission-ready warships" and aircraft along critical sea lanes of communications as well as "choke points" ranging from the Persian Gulf and Gulf of Aden to the Malacca Strait and Sunda Strait. "This will be done on a 24x7 basis round the year, with the warships being sustained and turned around on station. The Indian Navy has emerged as the net security provider and first responder in the region," said a senior officer.


If a Shivalik-class stealth frigate is currently patrolling the Bay of Bengal towards Bangladesh and Myanmar, then a Teg-class frigate is in the vicinity of Madagascar, Mauritius and Seychelles. Similarly, while frigate INS Trishul is deployed for anti-piracy patrol in the Gulf of Aden, a Kora-class corvette is prowling around the Andaman Sea.


-Ankit


Maybe this is why all the indigenously developed surface assets are so abnormally large, like a frigate sized Corvette aka p28 class.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 25 Oct 2017 12:20

For mere piracy our NOPVs are sufficient.They have a powerful main gun,plus a helo too,which if armed with SR ASMs could make mincemeat of a pirate vessel that tries to flee.However,with the Chinese present with FFGs and DDGs ,subs too,ostensibly to counter piracy when the world's worst pirates are Chinese,that too often supported by the Chinese military,as they act as spies for the PLAN,can also carry spl. force sabtaurs heavier hitters like out Talwars armed with either Klub or BMos,and MR/LR B-8s,are better suited to duel with any Chin warship or sub that might misbehave in our "pond".

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Singha » 25 Oct 2017 13:53

finally! IN sailors on training for DSRVs
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/navy-sa ... eststories

this hunt had started around kargil time

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 25 Oct 2017 14:09

Singha wrote:finally! IN sailors on training for DSRVs
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/navy-sa ... eststories

this hunt had started around kargil time


Around Kargil time, what triggered the purchase was the Kursk sinking incident.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby kit » 25 Oct 2017 21:52

Singha wrote:finally! IN sailors on training for DSRVs
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/navy-sa ... eststories

this hunt had started around kargil time


Probably the expanding deployment of nuclear submarines and extended patrols . ..quite probably these are the standalone versions and air transportable

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 26 Oct 2017 11:19

This article shows how the "Indian rate of building" is woefully inadequate against the relentless Chinese building mega-industry,where sev. yards are furiously at work building subs at an av. of one every 2.5 yrs and major warships like FFGs/DDGs at the same pace.Out 8-10 yrs to build a DDG,FFG,sub.etc. just will not do. These stats are more important to me than the link-up between the In and Japan. I've said ti many a time,for India to be locked into a "quadilateral" with the US,Japan and Oz, risks us being dragged into a war with China that the US or its allies may precipitate.
We should maintain informal relationships with other regional navies ,where most importantly the exchange of intel,most vital ,would be the way to go,not joint mil. ops.
Our task as a responsible global power should be to keep the SLOCs open to intl. shipping provided there is no hostile intention from anyone against our interests. If the Yanquis and China get into a spat,let it be the USN that flames Chinese warships and subs in the IOR.Nevertheless,if China attacks us,it should be we who flame them in toto both in the IOR and ICS.

As long as we are not joined to the hip with a US-led mil. axis,The danger from Chinese attack against would be diminished,but not absent! Our planning must take into a two-front war on land and also at sea,as the Gwadar ambitions of China are to turn it into another major air and naval base with marine forces too,who can eventually control events in the Gulf. This is why Indo-Iranian relationship should be on a much higher level than that between China and Iran.

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/opinion/ ... rtner.html
Japan: Indian Navy’s best partner?
Published Oct 25, 2017,
It is Mr Abe’s dream to transform his country’s self-defence forces into a full-fledged military that can play a proper role in regional security.

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, whose visit to India last month was a visible success, has just won an extraordinary sweeping two-thirds victory in parliamentary elections, leaving him in clear control of his country’s executive as well as legislature. This is important as it paves the way for him to move forward on one of his pet ambitions – to initiate a change in his country’s pacifist post-World War II constitution, imposed by the Americans, that severely limits the scope of Japan’s armed forces. It is Mr Abe’s dream to transform his country’s self-defence forces into a full-fledged military that can play a proper role in regional security. At a time of severe Asian turbulence, from the Korean peninsula to South Asia and beyond, to the Persian Gulf and the Levant, this has major implications for the proposed upgradation of Indo-Japan naval collaboration, including increased cooperation in naval ship technology. What is so important about Indo-Japan naval collaboration at this time? The answer lies in one word: China. An extra-erratic Beijing makes the existing Tokyo-New Delhi bilateral relationship even more important. China’s insatiable appetite for avoidable muscle-flexing is not only a matter of grave concern to India, but also to Japan and for that matter to the whole of East, Southeast and South Asia. Its increasingly abrasive naval doctrine and deployment has thrown open a grave challenge to the placid seafaring nations.

From 20th-century coastal defence to 21st century “forward deployed” offensive operations, China is on a mission beyond the South and East China Sea. It has openly positioned itself to expand its role, at times ignoring the “rules of engagement”. The challenge and the threats are increasing by the day, spanning across the Indian Ocean region, giving a sense of urgency to the need for enhanced India-Japan cooperation to ensure the freedom of navigation on the high seas. Looking back, one needs to remember that Japan is the only non-white, non-Western nation with a glorious naval history, despite catastrophic defeat in the Second World War due to the use of nuclear weapons. Japan’s sea journey began 122 years ago when Beijing was humbled by Tokyo in 1895, after the latter’s promulgation of the Meiji Constitution on February 11, 1889. Then followed the Russian Navy’s shock defeat in 1905 at the Tsushima Strait at the hands of the Japanese fleet. The Japanese naval juggernaut continued unabated, and at the end of the First World War, Tokyo emerged as Asia’s greatest naval power, with the world’s third most powerful navy, causing deep concern to the Anglo-Saxons. In the 1921-1922 Washington Naval Conference, the Japanese Navy was cut to size under Western pressure, with Tokyo allowed 60 per cent of the capital ships that the US and Britain had. Nevertheless, Japan had arrived as a seafaring power, and the December 7, 1941 bombing of Pearl Harbour undoubtedly marked the apogee of Nippon’s Navy.

The postwar constitution imposed by Gen. Douglas MacArthur severely crippled Tokyo’s fleet, but Japan was to soon prove true to its name – as the land of the rising sun – with its Navy making a spectacular recovery. There are lessons here for the Indian Navy as it seeks to bolster its role in the immediate neighbourhood and wider region. Despite the exceptional progress in the indigenisation of New Delhi’s fighting ships, time and cost overruns are the bane of India’s indigenisation timetable. No doubt India has a series of first-class home-made vessels from its shipyards — like the 6,808-ton full-load Delhi class and the 7,292-ton Kolkata class destroyers; 6,299-ton Shivalik class, 4,277-ton Godavari class, and 4,521-ton Brahmaputra class frigates and Kora and Khukri class corvettes.

But though Indian engineers and sailors did a magnificent job to produce modern, power-packed combat vessels with a blue-water capability, the 10-year conception-to-commission (November 14, 1987 to November 15, 1997) of destroyer INS Delhi certainly didn’t do any good to naval morale. No doubt things improved a bit; yet subsequent ships also took too long to build — INS Mysore (8 years, 4 months) and INS Mumbai (8 years, 1 month). Quite clearly, things need further improvement if India is to stand up to the intolerable bullies of Asia. The problem extends to the submarine wing too. The French Scorpene took over seven years to be commissioned. This is where Japan’s time-technology management expertise comes in. As is well known, Japan is not only manufacturing superior-technology ships, but is doing so quickly, keeping pace with its arch-rival China.

In fact, both Beijing and Tokyo are making their respective fighting ships at a furious pace to outdo each other.A reality check will suffice. Two 18,289-ton full-load Hyuga class helicopter carriers took two years and 10 months each by Yokohama’s Ishikawajima Harima Industries Marine United to commission on March 18, 2009 and March 16, 2011 respectively. Again, the first of the bigger 24,000-ton Izumo class helicopter carriers took three years and two months by the same shipbuilders. The latest 11 Nippon Souryu class 4,100-ton dived submarines too are taking an average of four years per boat by two manufacturers, Mitsubishi and Kawasaki. Finally, all four Akizuki class 5,050-ton destroyers were commissioned by Mitsubishi and Mitsui, taking between two years and eight months to two years and 10 months.

What should be of deeper concern for both India and Japan is that the Chinese are doing things faster and quicker. Eight prominent Chinese shipbuilding companies – the Bohai; Wuhan; Jiangnan; Dalian; Zhoushan; Huangpu; Hudong and Liao Nan Shipyards — are building various types of boats speedily, so much so that the average manufacture time taken for 14 latest-model Yuan class 3,600 ton dived diesel-electric patrol submarines stands at less than two years per boat, thus enhancing the fleet strength and multi-theatre deployment and deploy-ability. No wonder China has extended and expanded much beyond the Arabian Sea — to the mouth of the Red Sea. Both Japan and India need to act fast. Chinese submarines are posing a real-time threat – it has a fleet of 66 boats and at least 10 more are in the pipeline. India’s 14 and Japan’s 19 fall far below the “survival line” under the sea. Submarines aren’t just an effective platform for “sea control”, their submerged, mobile and undetected movements make them ideal for “sea denial” too. Given the inferior fleet numbers and constant time and cost overruns, it’s time India shows some urgency in starting a new collaboration effort with Japan in “time-technology management”, despite the Indian Navy’s impressive indigenisation efforts. After all, both nations face a common threat from an erratic, unstable neighbour.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 26 Oct 2017 12:34

This contradicts another report which said that suddenly the IN had become lukewarm about SGs becos it would affect purchases of extra P-8Is of which they wanted more. That report said that there wouldn't be money for both SGs and extra P-8Is. The IN has to evaluate costs of both systems,plus operating cost/hr,maintenance and support,etc.,Boeing is supposedly maintaining the P-8Is on an AMC styled contract.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 199416.cms
US looks forward to completing Sea Guardian deal with India
PTI|Updated: Oct 24, 2017, 02.40 PM IST


22 "unarmed" drones would cost us $2B,that makes each drone approx. $100M.Each P-8I would cost us $250M in the approved deal with Boeing for 4 more P-8Is for $1B. Does the IN want more P-8Is or has the moolah for this deal not been paid so far ,the deal being endangered by SG acquisition. If we had to make a choice it would be better if we bought more P-8Is,as these are dedicated sub hunters ,carrying a team of ASW operators inside unlike the drone which has external sensors only and limited armament. They cannot carry heavy-weight torpedoes,mines,drop sonobuoys etc.P-* Is would be able to carry more lethal ASMs too.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby kit » 26 Oct 2017 12:41

I dont know if this is OT but the IA also the peculiar situation of asking for the Apaches when their capital budget wont afford it ..not that they dont deserve it .Wont the IN be better served with armed poseidons than the unarmed sky guardians .. you could always have more herons or loan it from the IAF . the admirals would know better i guess

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya G » 26 Oct 2017 12:49

^ the question is whether anybody is asking the admirals at all. Even so, like we see in SSN vs Aircraft Carrier debate admirals can also differ.

This armchair admiral thinks that it's better to stick with Israeli systems viz a viz drones as they are already in service and buy more Tata C-295 based MPAs

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 26 Oct 2017 15:00

Advantage of Sea guardians is they will have far greater loiter time and can cover more area. But other than detecting surface ships, do they MAD and other devices to detect submarines?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby brar_w » 26 Oct 2017 15:08

Anti Submarine warfare isn't one of the things tasked to them.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby kit » 26 Oct 2017 18:39

Aditya_V wrote:Advantage of Sea guardians is they will have far greater loiter time and can cover more area. But other than detecting surface ships, do they MAD and other devices to detect submarines?


Not the Sea Guardians but the Triton has some capability in this area Brar might be able to give some details

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Cybaru » 26 Oct 2017 22:01

IMO all drones will be used for ASuW work mostly. Maybe if they are carrying radar during that sortie they might be able to detect Periscopes but this mostly to catalogue and hunt surface ships only. That is a large part of work anyways and will free up p8s for more asw work.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 26 Oct 2017 22:55

Aditya_V wrote:Advantage of Sea guardians is they will have far greater loiter time and can cover more area. But other than detecting surface ships, do they MAD and other devices to detect submarines?



Being unarmed what is the point of this except jiziya to US industry?
Also they don't have anti-submarine warfare capacity.

Its a $2B subsidy project.

Get more Herons.

Israelis have better drones anyway.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 26 Oct 2017 22:56

kit, The Triton is not on offer.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby brar_w » 26 Oct 2017 23:12

Even the Triton is unarmed. There won't be any objection to selling the Triton as it is also a BAMS, be it a significantly more capable one. Northrop was cleared by the GOTUS to begin discussing that system with the MOD but it will cost significantly more. Sea Guardian drones aren't usually armed but that doesn't stop the MOD from negotiating a new variant of the family that is armed, and some point to this having been discussed recently. As far arming the aircraft there is an armed drone discussion (apparently) regarding the Avenger so there wouldn't be any reason not to discuss arming the naval drones if the Navy wanted something that could carry the rather modest payload that would be possible.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Cybaru » 27 Oct 2017 03:14

There is a huge scope with IN for adding a large Triton and sea guardian fleets. Triton will make a huge difference in removing the fog of war and adding very high quality and on demand exploration in India ocean for long periods of time. The value it brings to the table is extremely high. IN should work on a equally large fleet of Tritons along with P8I. Nothing can stay in air that long.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 27 Oct 2017 05:02

Poseidon's are real dedicated ASW aircraft with both the means to detect and destroy subs with their sensors and weaponry plus some anti-ship capability with air-launched Harpoons. SGs simply cannot prosecute subs.Given that we already have Herons,etc. from Israel,no point increasing types .It would be better for us to develop our own HALE/MALE UCAV in a JV.We also have some maritime sat capability and once the IN has its dedicated maritime sats in place ,these assets and the mix of LRMP and MP aircraft ,plus exg.UAVs should suffice.Predators for the IAF/IA another matter.most welcome for "pigsticking" in Pakiland.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Singha » 27 Oct 2017 08:26

We should get some tritons as well

But really what is the point of arming them other than
Reducing their trump card which is high loiter time?

They can at best carry a hellfire with 10km range
Easily shot by any naval sam system and radar not being vlo

The usa might use them in colonial wars but we have no use case
For armed naval drones .

Even on land unless we use on kashmir jihadis and naxals
There is no real use case

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Singha » 27 Oct 2017 08:27

Ade has not exactly shone on rustom2 front

So all calls for desi reaper stuff are premature

The armed drone debate is like brahmos fetish. Ppl are
Unhappy if a 100t tug puts to sea without a brahmos pack

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Singha » 27 Oct 2017 08:31

Israelis are good at drones but in the sense of being
Best of the rest after khan

They have nowhere near the budget, sensor menu and
Sheer operational hours of khan in uavs and now ucavs.
Khan literally holds the high ground and is miles ahead
Of anyone

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 27 Oct 2017 11:38

NS has hit the ground running..with this assurance and has the priorities listed spot on.

Navy infra to improve soon: Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman
ET Bureau|Oct 27, 2017,

NEW DELHI: Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman on Thursday took note of the "critical capability shortfalls" of the Indian Navy in regard to multi-role helicopters, conventional submarines and mine counter-measure vessels and assured the force of redressing these issues.
which need urgent redressal to maintain the combat edge of the Navy. The Raksha Mantri assured the Commanders that that these issues were being given due impetus and efforts were in hand to mitigate these shortcomings at the earliest," reads a Defence Ministry statement.

//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/61252556.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst


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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 27 Oct 2017 13:07

Singha wrote:Israelis are good at drones but in the sense of being
Best of the rest after khan

They have nowhere near the budget, sensor menu and
Sheer operational hours of khan in uavs and now ucavs.
Khan literally holds the high ground and is miles ahead
Of anyone


It is about logistics since we operate Heron we might just spend that $2 billion in procuring it and lic build it in India for ASuW , Armed/ELINTVariant of it , The Heron-TP is an advanced variant http://www.airforce-technology.com/proj ... -male-uav/

The Heron TP’s mission systems include maritime patrol radar (MPR), electronic support measures (ESM), electronic and communications intelligence (ELINT / COMINT), and synthetic aperture radar (SAR). It can also be installed with M-19HD multi-sensor electro-optical payload.

The real-time imagery and telemetry data collected by the payloads are transmitted to the ground control station using line-of-sight propagation and satellite communications (SATCOM).

The UAV allows for simultaneous operation of different payloads for multi-mission requirements.


Image

Why throw good money and buy another UAV that adds nothing more than Logistics Overhead for the Navy ,The Indian Armed Forces already operates the Heron for a long time.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 27 Oct 2017 14:08

The only reason seems to be since Westinghouse has now collapsed, we need to pay Jaziya to be allowed to import Yellow cake in quantities, they have fixed the Dollar amount they want and we need to choose what makes the best sense for us, ISTAR, F-16, Sea Guardian etc in addition to P-17, P-8 etc.

Otherwise throwing USD 2 Billion for 22 drones makes no sense.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Kakkaji » 27 Oct 2017 15:17

Check out Ajai Shukla's latest. No nuke power for Vishal

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby A Deshmukh » 27 Oct 2017 16:58

Kakkaji wrote:Check out Ajai Shukla's latest. No nuke power for Vishal

reason as per Ajai Shukla: BARC says 15 years to develop reactor.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby brar_w » 27 Oct 2017 18:26

Kakkaji wrote:Check out Ajai Shukla's latest. No nuke power for Vishal



Also on his blog :

Senior US defence industry executives say New Delhi initiated the request for the Sea Guardian in 2016..


A point worth remembering that it was the IN/MOD that came out with an interest in the system. Interest in a similar system, Triton, was also there and the US Government allowed Northrop to begin sharing technical information with the Indian side. It is quite likely that the Sea Guardian was pursued further because of its lower cost and the prospects of it being weaponized since that option does not exist on the larger BAMS HALE platform.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby abhik » 27 Oct 2017 18:36

Aditya_V wrote:The only reason seems to be since Westinghouse has now collapsed, we need to pay Jaziya to be allowed to import Yellow cake in quantities, they have fixed the Dollar amount they want and we need to choose what makes the best sense for us, ISTAR, F-16, Sea Guardian etc in addition to P-17, P-8 etc.

Otherwise throwing USD 2 Billion for 22 drones makes no sense.

Seems like we are in a vicious cycle of buying more just so that we have the privilege of buying even more in the future. Same with the Russians. At this point I can't tell exactly what we are actually paying this tribute for.

ShauryaT
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ShauryaT » 27 Oct 2017 18:44

BARC has successfully developed a 190 Megawatt (MW) reactor for India’s fleet of four-to-six nuclear propelled, nuclear missile carrying submarines, of which the first – INS Arihant – has already been commissioned. However, INS Vishal would require a reactor capable of generating at least 500-550 MW. That means developing a brand new, miniaturised reactor, ruggedized against a marine environment.

Nor is such a 550 MW reactor in the development pipeline, because of a dispute over who will pay the bill. Says an indignant navy admiral: “BARC wants us to place a ‘developmental contract’ to fund the reactor’s development. Why should we do that?”


From the Shukla report. 190MW is Akula sized, I just hope that extra "1" is not a mistake. If the above is true then it is great news for our SSN program. Also for the carrier, do not need 500 MW reactor, we can put 4 of these on an Aircraft carrier. Not the most efficient but will help us get an early start to nuclear-powered carriers.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Cybaru » 28 Oct 2017 00:50

brar_w wrote:
A point worth remembering that it was the IN/MOD that came out with an interest in the system. Interest in a similar system, Triton, was also there and the US Government allowed Northrop to begin sharing technical information with the Indian side. It is quite likely that the Sea Guardian was pursued further because of its lower cost and the prospects of it being weaponized since that option does not exist on the larger BAMS HALE platform.



Agree with Singha! I am not sure we need weapons on our drones deployed for naval ops. We will need to qualify and confirm every target and that is best left to real people. I can see the value in either Triton for Navy and Avenger for IAF/IA. But this sea guardian thing is neither here nor there when compared with Israeli offerings.. It must be the payloads that others don't have perhaps. Any ideas on possibly what made the IN seek sea guardians?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby brar_w » 28 Oct 2017 01:26

I have written about some of the capability as a total package for the price. Moreoever, the new variants have higher performance since the US systems were developed. Performance both in the UAV itself, but also in data-links, sensors, and control stations. I had provided details earlier in the thread. The Triton is a different beast, with a Total Fly-Away cost of > $100 Million to the USN (FMS costs with support, logistics and services will be much higher) and the same goes for its sensors. If I were to guess, I'd say you could easily buy 2 if not more Sea Guardians for the price of one Triton.

But this sea guardian thing is neither here nor there when compared with Israeli offerings..


Flies higher, faster and carries more payload while having literally 2-3 mission system suppliers/products to choose from for each set of sensors and equipment. Moreover, there is nothing stopping from taking the Sea Guardian system and putting it into some of the latest iterations of the family which have even better performance. The performance within the family over the last few years, since the USCG firmed its SG requirements have improved significantly.
Last edited by brar_w on 28 Oct 2017 01:43, edited 5 times in total.

kit
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby kit » 28 Oct 2017 01:30

There might a very valid operational reason as to why the Tritons might be a better buy than the Sea Guardian. If i am correct the Tritons are designed right to buddy off from a loitering Poseidon and a fleet of tritons with one Poseidon could technically cover. a much greater area than a few poseidons alone? So lower operational costs there ..but again if that capability in some degree exists in satellites then maybe not !!


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