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Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 06 Nov 2017 11:08

The money rreqd. for just the ongoing projects is huge by any stds. Where the extra magic money is going to come for the large EMALS CV and its baggage of the CBG is anyone's guess! And that doesn't include the ongoing sub progammes,both N-subs and P-75I contest.Oops! ...and the 200+ helos!

The IN has made its decision about the launch system it wants-EMALS,for its next large CV.The Q remains as to how much it will cost and where the priority stands with respect to other critically needed weapon systems like subs,MCM vessels,helos,surfance ships,etc.

Indian Navy to use American aircraft launch system in its next Aircraft Carrier
Monday, November 06, 2017
By: The Hindu

The Navy is likely to go with an advanced catapult-based aircraft launch mechanism (CATOBAR) from the U.S. for its second indigenous aircraft carrier (IAC-II), which is on the drawing board. For some time, India has been exploring the possibility of installing the U.S. electromagnetic aircraft launch system (EMALS).

“IAC-II will have a CATOBAR launch. However, the kind of propulsion is yet to be decided,” a senior officer said.The U.S. has offered India its latest EMALS technology, developed by General Atomics Aeronautical Systems Inc., which has just been installed on the Gerald Ford carrier.

While the older generation of CATOBAR was powered by a steam catapult, EMALS uses an electric motor-driven catapult instead, which allows the launch of much heavier aircraft and also reduces the stress on the aircraft.

However, the system is expensive, something that needs to be factored in.

“EMALS will allow us to operate heavy surveillance aircraft in addition to heavy fighters,” another officer observed.
50 aircraft ::

The Navy envisages the IAC-II to be around 65,000 tonnes and capable of carrying over 50 aircraft. While the Navy is keen on nuclear propulsion, which would give it unlimited range and endurance, its development in time seems doubtful.

The two countries had set up a joint working group on Aircraft Carrier Technology Cooperation (JWGACTC) under the Defence Technology and Trade Initiative, which held several rounds of discussions.The group concluded its 4th meeting in New Delhi last Friday.

India’s first domestic carrier, Vikrant, weighing 40,000 tonnes, is in an advanced stage of construction in Kochi and is scheduled to be launched by 2018-end. It works on a Short Take-Off But Arrested Recovery (STOBAR) mechanism similar to that in the present carrier INS Vikramaditya, with an angular ski-jump.

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Re: Indian Navhttp://www.defencenews.in/article/To-counter-China,-India-offers-to-share-reay News & Discussion - 15 Dec

Postby Philip » 06 Nov 2017 13:31

To counter China, India offers to share real-time maritime intelligence with 10 countries
http://www.defencenews.in/article/To-co ... ies-444336
Indian Defence News [View All Articles]
To counter China, India offers to share real-time maritime intelligence with 10 countries
Sunday, November 05, 2017
By: Zee News

For the first time ever, India has offered to share real-time intelligence of maritime movements in the Indian Ocean with 10 countries including Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Sri-Lanka and Mauritius.

The move is aimed to counter the threats related to human trafficking, smuggling and territorial disputes in the South-China Sea.

It comes at a time when China is becoming increasingly aggressive in the South China Sea region. China had recently set-up its first off-shore base in the Horn of Africa country of Djibouti. To counter China, India is now looking at a cooperative approach instead of going alone.

Navy Chief Admiral Sunil Lanba said that the offer has been very positively received. The Navy chief gave the statement at the Goa Maritime Conclave (GMC) where the Indian Navy for the first time is hosting Navy and Maritime Chiefs of 10 countries of Indian Ocean Region (IOR).

He told India Today that they have identified common security threats across all countries. "We need greater degree of coordination and info sharing to take things forward to provide maritime security and safety of the global commons of the Indian Ocean."

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya G » 07 Nov 2017 01:08

The one for ASWC needs to be cleared by the Cabinet Committee on Security, so we are targeting March 31”, said a MoD official closely involved in these procurements.


Slender is the thread :rotfl:

Thanks Ajai Shukla for bringing out the lack of contracts for the Navy .... this is for a service which has navigated contracts through MoD corridors the best.

Contract for 2 diving support ships not signed - this is another tragedy as soon the DSRVs themselves will be delivered to the Navy. Our sailors are already up in Scotland training on them.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Cybaru » 07 Nov 2017 02:34

chetak wrote:
Cybaru wrote:Dunking sonars from the place IN wants can be installed. What is necessary is a stable platform that will serve our needs well for next 30-40 years. I hope dhruv wins the order.


If the platform was considered stable by the IN which, incidentally, was the first to pitch in by providing considerable funds for its development, this sorry situation would not have come to pass.

Fix the platform first, else it is a deal breaker. sonar fonar are mere afterthoughts.


In your opinion, there needs more fixing?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 07 Nov 2017 09:48

Media report that CSL has won/will get the contract for 8 inshore (shallow water) ASW corvettes.
http://www.newdelhitimes.com/indias-coc ... ine-ships/
India’s Cochin shipyard wins order for eight Anti – Submarine Ships
By NDT Special Bureau on November 6, 2017

India is emerging as a business market for the futuristic companies to invest and gain out of the potential of the domestic Indian market. The plan in regard to the country’s growth is based on providing not only foreign investment but also the domestic, private and public companies to gain out of the new policies in regard to business standards. This feature has been made possible with the advent of introducing new reforms for the investors like FDI etc.

By providing suitable environment and utilization of the resource-rich lands of the country both domestic and foreign investors are keen on providing their investments in the country. This has helped in raising the economic standards of the nation, employment opportunities, living standards of people and per capita income have increased. India is attracting not only foreign companies but also the domestic multinationals are now keen in investing with India on large scale. In regard with domestic companies like Cochin Shipyard, Larsen and Toubro, Reliance Industries etc. are also gaining momentum in investments.

Out of many sectors for investments, most of it is seen within the defence sector. India’s defence sector is regarded as the most beneficial and growing industry within India. With the second largest standing army in the world, India’s defence is the biggest venture for investment. On similar stands, defence has been expanding at a global rate. It is envisioned that it will be soon to be leading purchaser of arms and even the strategic market for investment.

All three tiers of defence air, land and water are emerging in a blooming way. The domestic multi-nationals are keen to invest in the defence sector. With the Indian Navy expanding and trying its level best to emerge on the top of the world, it has issued its demand for multiple anti-submarine ships. It had asked for tenders from various investors to propose their deals to the Indian Navy. Amongst the top bidders include, “Larsen and Toubro Ltd, Reliance Naval and Engineering Ltd, Garden Reach Shipbuilder and Engineering Ltd, Goa Shipyard, Hindustan Shipyard and Cochin Shipyard Ltd”.

The lowest bidder was supposed to get the deal of providing 8 anti-submarine ships to the Indian Navy. The project was estimated to be around 5,400 crores. The Cochin Shipyard being the lowest bidder has gained this tender and is now in a process to build 8 anti-submarine ships. This project will be held in close cooperation with the Ministry of Defence of India. It is country’s long-standing ASW shallow-water craft project. There was participation from both public and private sector multinationals in the bidding process. But the Cochin Shipyard being the best out of the deal bagged the contract. This contract will provide a great boost to the defence and even to the Cochin Shipyard. The Navy’s project will enhance the submarine capacity of the country and will make advancements in the core capabilities.

There has been in the news that Indian defence ministry’s Defence Acquisition Council approved a tender for nearly 16 ASW shallow-water ships in December 2013. The report stated that, the platform which would be built will host to a 700-tons displacement and a range of 200 n miles. Also, the maximum speed which would be attained would feature around 25 kt and an endurance of 1,800 n miles at 14 kt. This calls for a check of the latest developments of Navy which are featured in these ships. This is a large and multilevel featured progress of the Indian Navy.

The first vessel from the side of Cochin Shipyard is deemed to be delivered in next 42 months. This will be a continuing process and after that, the state-owned shipbuilder will deliver two vessels every year. The shipyard’s order was for INR 3,500 crore but before it won the order. The company is indulged in building vessels for the Indian Navy in the past too. It is building an aircraft carrier which is an advanced vessel to carry fighter aircraft in the future.

There has been a great developmental increase in the company’s share in the BSE and NSE. It has raised INR 1,468 crore after listing on stock exchanges of 76.2 times the number of shares on offer. It is mentioned by top officials of the company that this increase would be used for building and setting up a new manufacturing unit. This offer for the company to build eight vessels for the Indian Navy is the first big tender in concern with the company getting initial public offering in August. The ship which would be built by the CSL will feature ASW sensors and equipment, including hull-mounted sonar, variable-depth sonar, and torpedo tubes. This highly modernized feature of advance engineering is a great deal for the CSL to achieve and Indian Navy to utilize it in future missions.

The Indian Navy had planned for the 212-ship fleet as featured in the service’s 15 year Maritime Capability Perspective Plan for the 2012-27. The new eight ASW will be an added feature to this plan of the defence ministry in boosting the strength of Indian Navy. Under country’s Next Generation Corvette programme is assumed to acquire seven to ten ships more. This will add to the basic demand featured by Navy for carrying out the operations in the future. This 120 m platform will feature ASW capabilities as it is for the multipurpose target achievement.

The CSL and Indian Navy working in cooperation with each other will lead to dynamic growth in the defence sector of the country. The nation’s long-standing attribute of being the best will be achieved by this contract. It will not only provide with latest and advanced ships but will be a productive asset as being the public sector company, which would grow eventually by the mean of this contract. The contract of providing eight ASW will lead to developing Indian Navy’s capabilities in global waters. This will create a progressive path for both the CSL and Indian Navy as both will be.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 09 Nov 2017 05:47

Indian Navy officers reluctant to show confidence in Indian industry: Parrikar
http://www.timesnownews.com/mirrornow/n ... ikar/55804

Parrikar said that opportunities for a private manufacturer in the defence sector were so vast that they cannot even be thought of, citing the case of sonobuoys -- used in anti-submarine warfare. "When I went flying on P-8I from east coast to Andaman, I realised that the quantity of sonobuoys is so high, that three-four units can survive in India if we can develop technical collaboration on the issue," he said.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya G » 09 Nov 2017 13:54

The onus of showing confidence cannot be one the user alone. Vendors and commercial beneficiaries have to work hard to secure that trust and vote.

I agree with MP though, that kinetic components should be locally produced due to repeat demand.

Rakesh wrote:Indian Navy officers reluctant to show confidence in Indian industry: Parrikar
http://www.timesnownews.com/mirrornow/n ... ikar/55804

Parrikar said that opportunities for a private manufacturer in the defence sector were so vast that they cannot even be thought of, citing the case of sonobuoys -- used in anti-submarine warfare. "When I went flying on P-8I from east coast to Andaman, I realised that the quantity of sonobuoys is so high, that three-four units can survive in India if we can develop technical collaboration on the issue," he said.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 09 Nov 2017 16:21

Hopefully larger orders like the 8 Inshore ASW corvettes brings about both cost reduction and enhanced supply chain.However in tonnage terms just under 6000t,the cost of just 1 DDG.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby kmkraoind » 09 Nov 2017 18:45

Press review: India's Russian submarine leak and Russia-US ties 'beyond repair' - TASS
An unprecedented scandal broke out between Russia and India with Moscow suspecting that Delhi granted US Navy representatives access to the Russian nuclear submarine of Project 971I, operated by the Indian Navy since 2011. According to Kommersant, the incident threatens to seriously complicate negotiations both on the lease of the second nuclear submarine, and on other projects in the field of military-technical cooperation between the two countries.

Several sources in Russian state structures have confirmed that with the newspaper saying that the Indian partners have recently committed several "unfriendly acts towards Russia." First, according to them, the US Navy delegation visited the aircraft carrier Vikramaditya (property of the Indian Navy) and Russian officials were forced to issue a note of protest. After some time, a high-ranking military source told Kommersant, the American delegation was already on board the Chakra.

Kommersant’s source working in the military technical cooperation system, called the fact that the US Navy appeared on a Russian submarine (located on the base near Vishakhapatnam, pending repairs) outrageous. "There were well-trained technical specialists, though unlikely to get any information," the source said.


According to the newspaper, this whole string of incidents can have a very adverse impact on defense cooperation between the two countries, which has been successfully developing over the past five years. According to several sources, specialized Russian structures are preparing retaliatory measures against their Indian partners. "Very difficult conversations are on the horizon, we have a lot of questions," a source said. Some who spoke to Kommersant believe that, in particular, the negotiations on leasing the second nuclear submarine, which the Indian Navy planned to obtain from Russia, will be seriously complicated.

According to Kommersant, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, who intends to come to India in December with one of the largest deals on Russian arms, will have to iron out the problems that have accumulated. In addition to the Chakra issue, he must negotiate the creation of a fifth-generation fighter under an agreement which was signed back in 2007, but neither the airplane's conception nor its financial parameters have been determined yet.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 09 Nov 2017 19:13

Allowing Yanqui mil personnel on Russian provided assets esp. our principal naval assets thd VikA and Chakra too ( if true) is unpatdonable.The Chakra is on lease,belongs to the RuN not us .This would be a monumental breach of trust and endanger the entire Ru-India relationship ,where all our cutting edge weapon systems are of Ru origin.BMos,MKIs,ATV N-sub tech,the Akula/s plus to be finalised deals like the FGFA ,are at risk.

I suspect that if true,it is a calculated op. to sabotage the Indo-Ru relationship decades old,by vested firang interests.V.recently there was a report that the GOI was upset about mil officers going abroad for sponsored courses when the same were available here.They were being indoctrinated by western nations.In future such freebies which come with attached ropes would be cancelled. Russia may worst case, recall the Chakra and cancel any further N-sub leases and tech support for our N-sub programmes alone.It would have a catastrophic effect upon our mil.plans esp. for the IN whose sub crisis has never been so acute.The US also refuses to provide us with naval N-tech, let alone 50 yr old aircraft tech unless we sign on alphabet agreements turning us into a US lackey and vassal state.

PS:I again repeat if true.It is incomprehensible to imagine that such access would be given by the GOI/MOD to USN personnel when even the Indian media has such scant or non-existant access to our N-subs.However the pics of US naval personnel aboard the VikA where they could examine the MIG-29K and its support facilities also aboard the Kuznetsov raises many questions.Of late the IN seems to be going overboard in its relationship with the US and lusting to become one of its rent-boys like OZ and Pak! Whether this was over-zealousnrss by the IN or
it came direct from the PMO needs to be seen as all matters relating to our N-subs hitherto been directly controlled by the PMO.
Last edited by Philip on 09 Nov 2017 19:31, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karthik S » 09 Nov 2017 19:13

Phillip, please stop posting incriminating articles on Indian military just because it came from Russian media, you've done same thing sometime in the recent past too.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 09 Nov 2017 19:34

I did NOT post the article! Get your facts right Kartik .I have , read again ,asked specifically "if true" twice as it appears incomprehensible ,but the pics of USN personnel aboard the VikA do not lie!

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karthik S » 09 Nov 2017 19:38

You don't have to go off on your anxiety on Indo-Russian relationship based on your "if true" clause.
BTW so what if USN board VikA? What's exactly your problem with that?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 09 Nov 2017 19:50

The Indo-Ru mil. relationship affects 60-70% of all our weaponry and many classified programmes .Allowing Russia's chief enemy aboard its naval assets without its permission is clearly a major breach of trust.Even the VikA has Ru specific tech which is also aboard its carrier. which has just been in action in Syria using the same 29Ks.

When the US has such intrusive checking policies on US eqpt. "bought by India " allowing it to regularly check if we've allowed outsiders to take a dekko at it, why are we allowing them to have free access to our most vital assets? They could easily pass on info to their favourite catamite,Pak! They have never ever deserted Pak and the recent about turn by Trump has had many pro- US advocates wondering at US inconsistency in policy.T he Russians have every reason to protest.Perhaps they will now demand from us the same intrusive inspections like the US from now on.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 09 Nov 2017 20:19

PS:Imagine the reverse,if we were operating a US built carrier and leased L.A. class SSN ,wouldn't the US mightily protest if we allowed their strongest "enemy "Russia,to inspect the carrier and sub? The principle is the same.If we've entered into confidentiality agreements with a supplier,esp. in defence weaponry, we have to abide by the rules of contract.I have on occasion had to sign such agreements where specific industrial tech. being exposed had to be protected. Breaking such confidentiality agreements also risks other deals with other nations/suppliers as a Q mark would be noted against us when their systems are being requested like Barak-8 SAMs for instance and Israeli AESA radars. Would we allow the Russians a dekko at them? No way!

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby brar_w » 09 Nov 2017 20:33

PS:Imagine the reverse,if we were operating a US built carrier and leased L.A. class SSN ,wouldn't the US mightily protest if we allowed their strongest "enemy "Russia,to inspect the carrier and sub?


What was part of this "inspection"?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karthik S » 09 Nov 2017 20:38

Firstly, you really think we'd allow phoren technicians and personnel near our nuke base? We have our own subs in Vizag don't we, or you think we parked chakra at some distance especially to facilitate khan's snooping on it? Come on, you should know better. We were operating BARS in training mode in every air exercise with western country to safeguard our assets. Do your whiskey tasting thing and start to think. Trust our establishment. You are not doubting the wisdom and intelligence of one or two Indian personnel but entire establishment by saying we allowed khan to enter everywhere. Don't try to paint your Russian hurt by talking about Israel and all.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Will » 09 Nov 2017 21:00

I hope this did not happen. If it did it is plain stupid I wouldn't be surprised that the Chinks and the Paki's are behind this. They know that Indo-Russian ties are not as strong as they used to be and would like to damage Indo- Russian ties irreversibly. On the other hand it could be Uncle Sam itself who wants to damage Indo-Russian ties and make India dependent on the US. Further it could be the Russian's themselves trying to arm twist India into signing pending deals like the FGFA.Having said that there's something brewing. If we let our ties with Russia to be damaged it would be one of the biggest blunders ever. India cannot afford to loose Russia as a friend. Whoever is responsible needs to be brought to account.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 09 Nov 2017 21:16

The original source that Kommersant is quoting is from strategypage.com which is a well know BS site , original link to article

https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3461277?from=four_mir

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karthik S » 09 Nov 2017 21:32

)))Poseidon(((‏
@Poseidonind
Follow Follow @Poseidonind
More
Replying to @manupubby @indiannavy
Fake.
US officers did not even visit Viskapatnam in order to visit INS Chakra.
The source of the Russian report was fake news specialist Bharat Karnad.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby kit » 09 Nov 2017 23:08

The Russian subs sonar was damaged and it could not be repatriated back to Russia without taking quite a while , the sonar is under safeguards by the Russians. Their sensitivities are moot. The americans were not at the nuclear sub but a kilo ( go figure ! ) .Some one desperate enough to put a story together . Some one wants the IN to clarify some operational details and *that is not going to happen* ..end of story.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Indranil » 10 Nov 2017 00:59

Much ado about nothing. IF the yankees were allowed on our strategic assets, the call must have come from the highest of offices. It would not be done without serious considerations. The Russians will be suitably informed.

Take a chill pill.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 10 Nov 2017 03:54

Ru..st in peace.Pun intended.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Prem » 10 Nov 2017 11:32

France pierced the States and Russia "Chakra"
https://news.ru/v-mire/franciya-probila ... yu-chakru/

The information that Moscow suspected New Delhi of admitting US Navy representatives to the Russian nuclear submarine of Project 971I, which is operated by the Indian Navy since 2011, has been organized by the French side since 2011 under the name Chakra (Chakra). This is done in order to push Russia, the United States and India and, on this background, lobby for their projects. About this News.ru a source in the Russian military-industrial complex said.Recall, November 7 in the American edition of Strategy Page was published material in which, referring to sources, it was alleged that Russia was postponing the repair work on the leased India nuclear submarine because of suspicions that the Indian military, in violation of the lease agreement, allow representatives of the US Navy carefully study the Russian submarine. Also, according to sources of the publication, the Russian side had questions about the degree of damage to the submarine of the hydro-acoustic complex of the hydroacoustic complex (SAC), which, as noted by Indian media, the former K-152 Nerpa nuclear submarine of the third generation of Project 971I "Shchuka-B" (designation of NATO - Akula) was received in the basing area - near Vishakhapatnam.
As Kommersant sources reported on November 9 in Russian state structures, first the US Navy delegation visited the aircraft carrier Vikramaditya (the former aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov), and after a while it was already on board the Chakra nuclear submarine. One of the interlocutors of the publication called outrageous the very fact of the US Navy's appearance on the Russian submarine: "Among them there were well-trained technical specialists, somehow, but they took out the information for themselves.""There is complete confidence that the throw-in is organized by the lobbyists of France, and it's pretty high-quality," source News.ru said. - The time of his appearance was chosen successfully. On the one hand, in the near future, Vice-Premier Dmitry Rogozin is expected to visit India, which should finalize the agreements that were reached during Vladimir Putin's visit in October 2016. On the other hand, in the near future, the contract between Russia and India for the lease of the second nuclear submarine should also be finalized. "According to him, we are talking about the nuclear submarine of the same project 971, which was "repaired for the Russian Navy." "In addition to the contract for the construction of non-nuclear boats such as Scorpene, the French have a great desire to enter the Indian nuclear fleet," the source said News.ru. - Currently, France is actively pushing the idea of ​​its participation in the design of the second aircraft carrier of the Indian Navy of national construction. In general, the French side has repeatedly been seen in such provocations on the Indian arms market: it is believed that many negative publications concerning Russian aircraft in the Indian Air Force are the work of the French lobby. "
"There is a high level of competition in the arms market, and all means are good for obtaining a contract, including denigrating a competitor," Andrei Frolov, editor-in-chief of the magazine Export of Arms, notes in an interview with News.ru. - History, when publications are initiated in which information is provided on the shortcomings revealed during tests or during the operation of samples of weapons and military equipment, periodically occur in the practice of military-technical cooperation. "The expert cites an example: in 2016, confidential documents on the construction of six nonautomatic French submarines of the Scorpene type for the Indian Navy were received. "It is believed that for the French it was a powerful blow to the image in the light of concluding a contract with Australia for the construction of 12 submarines and that this throw could be Germany," said Andrei Frolov. - At the same time, during the Australian tender there were leaks about the alleged shortcomings of the German submarines of Project 216 (Typ 216). Whoever was behind them is not exactly clear, but for the French and Germans they have become quite a serious gap in terms of PR activity, which had to be dealt with in an emergency. "

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chola » 10 Nov 2017 13:16

Indranil wrote:Much ado about nothing. IF the yankees were allowed on our strategic assets, the call must have come from the highest of offices. It would not be done without serious considerations. The Russians will be suitably informed.

Take a chill pill.


Yup. The IN would not be making gratuiotous slaps to Ivan’s face without input from Dehli.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Will » 10 Nov 2017 17:34

Here you go. As suspected someone has a vested interest. Turns out to be the French this time.

http://idrw.org/india-wants-second-nucl ... ore-153201

This should help Philip relax. :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby tsarkar » 10 Nov 2017 19:52

Image
Buddy refuelling

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chetak » 10 Nov 2017 19:57

tsarkar wrote:Image
Buddy refuelling


tsarkar ji, don't mind, here is the image. BTW, It is the same link that you posted

Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 10 Nov 2017 20:38

Ru reports contradict each other Tass goes by the K report ,probably a late pick up, but it looks more like a delib. "fake news" disinfo. campaign meant to muddy the Indo-Ru waters .After the Sorpene leak the IN has been disinterested in more French boats esp. after Fr. gave OZ a guarantee that India would never get equiv. or better sub tech.That was one of the key factors that clinched the deal.
Moreover the Scorpene, non-AIP costs as much as the Akula/Chakra lease! With 6 SSNs to be built in India, France would like to replace or as alleged, even sabotage the Indo-Ru N-sub tech relationship which greatly assisted us to develop and build the Arihant SSBN and the series to follow.
*>>
We see the same campaign being made against the FGFA where Dassault is desperate to sell its ultra-expensive Rafales as the SE req. could also threaten it.The French have cultivated many in the IAF " only Rafale", " no plan B",
etc.,etc.So too are the SE crowd wanting their share of the halwa.
However in this murky world of def. deals with a veritable underworld indulging in dirty tricks for its masters, if this was a feku plant, it was a dangerous one and there is no clear evidence that it was orchestrated by Paris.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ajay_hk » 11 Nov 2017 06:52

X-post

'No US officer given access to N-sub on lease from Russia'
TNN | Nov 11, 2017, 04:55 IST
NEW DELHI: The country's defence establishment has rejected Russian media reports that India allowed US military officials on board nuclear-powered submarine INS Chakra, which has been leased from Russia for 10 years under a $900 million deal.

Though there was no official statement, sources said there was "no question" of letting US officials or "anyone else" near INS Chakra, the Akula-II class submarine inducted by the Indian Navy in April 2012, in violation of the terms of agreement inked with Russia. "This is a disinformation campaign being carried out by some vested interests," said a source.


...

Russian news portal Kommersant on Thursday claimed the Indian Navy had permitted a US technical crew to inspect INS Chakra, saying the "unprecedented scandal" threatened "to seriously complicate the negotiations on the lease of the second nuclear submarine". But on Friday, another Russian news portal, NEWS.ru, asserted that "French lobbyists" had "an ulterior role in spreading misinformation to further their own chances of selling a nuclear-powered attack submarine to India".

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Manish_P » 11 Nov 2017 09:23

LEMOA in place, US tanker refuels Indian Navy ship in Sea of Japan

INS Satpura, an Indian Navy stealth frigate, was refuelled by USS Chafee, a US Navy tanker, as a Replenishment at Sea (RAS) activity carried out under Exercise PASSEX (participation exercise).


“The refuelling from a US Navy tanker extends the reach of the Indian Navy, allowing it to operate further, more persistently and for a longer duration. It is also a statement of intent about the India-US relationship,” sources told The Indian Express.


During Exercise Malabar, the two countries had first utilised the LEMOA to transfer fuel from INS Jyoti, an Indian Navy tanker, to two US Navy ships. LEMOA was again used for accounting purposes during the training Exercise Yudh Abhyas in the US.


“The refuelling of US ships during Malabar was part of a training exercise. This PASSEX is more difficult and operational in nature. This refuelling is more operational in nature and would not have been possible without LEMOA. But it was not meant to prove LEMOA, it was done for tactical reasons,” sources explained.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby deejay » 11 Nov 2017 15:53

delete - wrong thread

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 12 Nov 2017 05:12

LEMOA in place, US tanker refuels Indian Navy ship in Sea of Japan
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... n-4932082/

India and the US signed LEMOA last August, giving the militaries of both countries access to each other's facilities for supplies and repairs.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby uddu » 12 Nov 2017 07:39

It could be the French, it could be the Russians, It could be the Americans, it could be anyone. Even the Pakis.

I can provide another viewpoint of what must have happened. It's said that our chief visited the French Nuclear submarine building facility while on his visit to France. The Russians got alarmed about the loss of business if French steps in to offer nuclear sub tech to India. They wanted to tell Indians that inviting French to offer nuclear technology will close the door for the next nuclear submarine lease. So looked around for some story and put one in some Russian newspaper. Notice that all the news that appeared about the U.S allowed access to Chakra appeared in Russian newspapers. Then when it spread, they blamed the French. :)

Can it be Americans? It could be. Shooting down two birds with one stone.

Now the challenge is to make this news as opportunity to get the technology that we want be it from France and from Russia.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Gagan » 13 Nov 2017 09:28

Just find out who deposited Le Francs in Bharat Karnad's account no?
The IT dept babooz can do this sitting in delhi

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Pratyush » 13 Nov 2017 10:09

uddu wrote:It could be the French, it could be the Russians, It could be the Americans, it could be anyone. Even the Pakis.

I can provide another viewpoint of what must have happened. It's said that our chief visited the French Nuclear submarine building facility while on his visit to France. The Russians got alarmed about the loss of business if French steps in to offer nuclear sub tech to India. They wanted to tell Indians that inviting French to offer nuclear technology will close the door for the next nuclear submarine lease. So looked around for some story and put one in some Russian newspaper. Notice that all the news that appeared about the U.S allowed access to Chakra appeared in Russian newspapers. Then when it spread, they blamed the French. :)

Can it be Americans? It could be. Shooting down two birds with one stone.

Now the challenge is to make this news as opportunity to get the technology that we want be it from France and from Russia.



I don't understand the trepidation regarding the closing of the door by the Russians for the second nuke boat lease.

We are going to put our second nuke boat in the water in the next few weeks. Why should we worry about the non dilivery of sub by russians. I mean we should be able to put together a boat using the building blocks for the P 75 and the arihant and design a new nuke boat within a few years.

Secondly, this could just be opening salvo from the Russians for the negotiations for lease renewal and the second boat.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby sum » 13 Nov 2017 14:06

Secondly, this could just be opening salvo from the Russians for the negotiations for lease renewal and the second boat.

This is what looks like the highest possibility

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 14 Nov 2017 12:31

There's more beneath the surface of the indo-Ru N-sub cooperation than appears above water.Increasing oiur number of SSGNs is a priority.A 3rd Akula has reportedly been agreed upon.Out Arihants are SSBNs,not SSGNs ,containing only our strat. deterrent BMs. For hunting enemy N-subs and surface fleets,at long ranges,esp. n the ICS and Pacific waters,we need attack subs and SSGNs armed with a heavy weaponload of missiles (anti-ship,land attack) and torpedoes.

Anyway as I posted elsewhere the reason for the report could be explained by this note.A team of firang experts visited Vizag a few months ago and looked at the ATV and Chakra,but they weren't Yanquis.They were reportedly Brits who were allegedly checking on the integration of the subs emergency hatches with the 2 DSRVs that we're buying from the UK! These rescue vessels are critical for the IN.Remember the Kursk tragedy.After their efforts failed,the Russians asked the Brits to help and eventually it was their rescue vessel which managed to get into the sub but it was too late. Some spotter must've seen the "white men" around and passed on the news.and in the aftermath of the USN team's visit to the VikA,thought that these visitors were Yanquis too!

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Will » 14 Nov 2017 20:05

Well its to the Russian's advantage to have the DSRV's ordered by the IN compatible with their submarines. They don't have anything comparable. During the Kursk disaster they were hesitant to accept western help until it was too late. Heaven forbid if there is another disaster, they can always ask the IN to fly in one of the DSRV's to help without wasting time.

Lol and it looks like the Russians have been upto to some shenanigans ... planting stories to strengthen their position. Why Philip , O why! :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 15 Nov 2017 00:27

Can't understand the logic of Ru planting such a story as it only affects their interests. It would be easy for the GOI to establish the source of the feku report. If one looks at the pic right now holistically, there is a war going on for grabbing a share of the Indian def. budget, where we are the no.2 (?) global nation importing firang milware.
At stake are a few crucial big tkt. deals for fighter aircraft and subs both conventional and nuclear.Given their high price and delays, both the Rafale and extra Scorpenes (leaks too) face strong competition for future orders.

The Russians already have the inside line as far as N-sub tech, reactor supply, etc. is concerned.Their assistance in the SSBN programme is invaluable giving them pole position for the 6 SSN reg. The French are trying v.hard too by wooing the IN for something similar .


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