Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Singha » 20 May 2018 14:21

i had followed her progress from the mountainous seas off cape horn upto east of mauritius. she had stopped in port louis mauritius.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chetak » 20 May 2018 23:38

chetak wrote:
kit wrote:
That's the reason given ., but actual reason is much deeper .. Australia has been directly involved in activities that are NOT in Indian interests and continues to do so .. intelligence surveillance covert ops all come to mind


This has actually been going on for decades.

Now plain jealousy is a pretty big component of their mandate towards India.

The convicts simply cannot wrap their heads around a rising India but they can abjectly kowtow to a china.



Here is a much more credible explanation. The tail of the elephant, as it were.

A thread that is slowly unravelling, and revealing more as it does.

Certainly, we need to explore their pain points further, which obviously run much deeper than what the good General has chosen to reveal in the public domain

India and Australia: Exploring a relationship beyond the cricket pitch



India and Australia: Exploring a relationship beyond the cricket pitch


For long my understanding of Australia was based on cricket.


20th May 2018

By Lt Gen (retd) Syed Ata Hasnain

For long my understanding of Australia was based on cricket. My childhood recall is of such Aussie greats as Richie Benaud, Bill Lawry and Bobby Simpson, the heroes of the 60’s when cricket first caught my passion. I must admit though that even as an analyst in my post-army avatar the focus has rarely been towards that part of the world. At least until now, when I finally visited the island continent-cum-nation. Melbourne and Sydney were the cities I recently toured on work-cum-leisure.

Beyond fascinating drives to the Great Ocean Route in Victoria and the Blue Mountains in New South Wales, the mind was in a state of turbulence. A couple of personal observations are in order before one attempts to give a take on some aspects of India’s relationship with Australia.

It is easy to feel welcome in Australia. From the taxi driver, to the hotel janitor and restaurant waiter or going much up the ladder, there appears a natural friendliness. Good infrastructure with everything working like clockwork greets you everywhere. Any and everyone I approached for assistance did his or her bit with a smile. The one thing which cannot escape the eye is the omnipresence of the Chinese. While many could be Vietnamese or even Indonesians, yet the tourist sector quite evidently was simply taken over by China.

Chinese influence and soft power is abundant in presence. As per available figures, annual Australian exports to China amount to 60 billion USD and imports 44.2 billion USD making China the most important trade partner. In comparison, figures for trade with India are eight billion USD exports and 3.25 billion USD imports. As a country with a huge land mass and vast natural resources, Australia’s potential for trade with industrialised countries remains extremely positive. Yet somehow the country is beset with choices in terms of partnerships and these choices aren’t all easy.

With its strategic location straddling the South and North Pacific Ocean, it has hundreds of island territories as its neighbours. Even after the Cold War, its geostrategic location makes it the natural partner-cum-custodian of security in the region. For the US, prevention of activity inimical to their joint interests in the Pacific flank is essential which makes it a strategic partner of the US.

What’s with India? As members of the Commonwealth of Nations, following the principles of democracy there is much convergence of interest. Yet in 1998 when India went overtly nuclear, Australia’s response was the most negative. India’s Defence Attache was packed off overnight and all military relations were cut off. While there was a gradual restoration of goodwill, somehow the actions by the Australian government have stayed in Indian memory longer.

While a 4,00,000 Indian diaspora enjoys the benefits of Australia’s opportunities, it has the potential to leverage its interests in the Indian economic growth which is estimated to grow to 38 trillion USD by 2040. Yet for all the evident goodwill on the surface, there are reports that India has once again denied Australia an invitation to participate in Malabar, its annual naval exercise being conducted this year with the US and Japanese navies.

There are perceptions that this is being done to ease tensions with China. The much-touted Quad of Nations trans-Indo-Pacific partnership, which comprises the US, India, Japan and Australia, does not appear to have fructified to levels of confidence where military exercises with participation by all four can be conducted.

In my discussions with Australian veterans I ventured to ask why Australia would want to be a member of a partnership which could be inimical to Chinese interests. I hastened to inquire whether it was due to the compulsions of Australian-US relationship. I did not get any answer of worth. For now I prefer to think of the next Indo-Australia cricket series to be played in Australia where hopefully the bouncers will be better tackled than the tricky issues of foreign policy.

Lt Gen (retd) Syed Ata Hasnain

Former Commander, Srinagar-based 15 Corps

atahasnain@gmail.com

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby jaysimha » 21 May 2018 10:16

Integrated HEADQUARTERS of Ministry of Defence(Navy)
Directorate of Hydrography(DOH)
Invitation for expression of interest(EOI)
Indigenous development of Deep sea
side scan sonar towing winch
project DS4TW

http://www.makeinindiadefence.gov.in/EoI%20-%20Deep%20Sea%20Side%20Scan%20Sonar%20Towing%20Winch%20-%2011.5.18.pdf

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 21 May 2018 17:00

3 cheers to the all-women crew of the IN, IN'S Tarini for their splendid achievement circumnavigating the globe.
Splice the mainbrace, pass the rum ration around again me hearties ,what?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 22 May 2018 18:33

As China Sends New Carrier For Trials, India Tries To Play Catch-Up

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/as-chin ... topstories
New Delhi: Confronted by the unprecedented growth of the Chinese Navy which has just completed a round of sea trials of its first home-grown aircraft carrier, India has stepped up the pace of completing construction of its first made-in-India carrier being built in Kochi.

Senior sources in the Indian Navy have said the Vikrant (named after India's first aircraft carrier) will enter sea trials by May or June 2020, and be commissioned in October that year. Integrated trials of the warship within the confines of the harbour will be completed prior to the sea trials. Senior Navy officers, however, point out that it could take up to four years after the Vikrant is commissioned for the aircraft carrier to be battle-ready and fully operational in all respects.

For the moment, the Navy is relieved that delivery of key systems of the warship whose delivery had been delayed have now started coming in and are being fitted onto the warship. This includes the primary sensor of the aircraft carrier, the Israeli EL/M-228 MF-STAR active electronically scanned array naval radar.


The MF-STAR is designed to track multiple targets in the air and on the surface of the sea at long ranges. Similarly, components of the Russian-designed aviation complex meant to provide air traffic guidance, in addition to landing aids for the Vikrant's MiG-29K fighter jets, will begin arriving within months.


The project to build the Vikrant has seen an astronomical jump in project estimates.

According to the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG), the government's financial watchdog, the Defence Ministry had first planned the construction of an indigenous aircraft carrier in 1999 at a cost of Rs. 1,725.24 crore with delivery of the ship in eight to 10 years.

By 2002, the Navy defined its requirements which were for a larger aircraft carrier displacing more than 37,000 tonnes. This raised the project costs to Rs. 3,261 crore with delivery of the ship expected in December 2010.

But by March 2014, the cost estimates of the project were again revised. This time, they went up to a whopping Rs. 19,341 crore, or more than $3 billion. Delivery of the ship was meant to happen in December this year. This deadline will clearly be missed.

By contrast, China began sea trials of its first home-made aircraft carrier, a 70,000-tonne warship, earlier this month. Construction of the ship began in November 2013. By contrast, the keel of India's Vikrant was laid in February 2009, and though she was sailed out for the first time in in 2011, completion of the project is still years away.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chola » 22 May 2018 19:50

Austin wrote:
The MF-STAR is designed to track multiple targets in the air and on the surface of the sea at long ranges. Similarly, components of the Russian-designed aviation complex meant to provide air traffic guidance, in addition to landing aids for the Vikrant's MiG-29K fighter jets, will begin arriving within months.




This “will begin arriving within month” doesn’t sound very convincing. That certainly doesn’t convey a set time table. It’s not even a proper ETA! No customer would ever accept this in the business world — “don’t worry you’ll get it within months.” What?!? You give me a date or properly estimated time so we can plan. Otherwise, we’re going to someone else.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 23 May 2018 10:16

The delays of completion of IAC-1 have not been clearly explained.Some indicate a delay in Ru eqpt. for aviation aids, etc.But this does not explain delays in the rest.Such aids, eqpt. etc. Could be easily installed in an old completed carrier too.The harbour and some limited sea trials at least could've begun to test propulsion, handling, radars and other sensors too. Nothing to stop helo trials.
Taking so long to fit out after its launch and allowing the larger Chin carrier which began after our flat top to be completed and start its sea trials, is a dismal comparison.
We need to also know about continuous funding of the carrier , whether it suffered , being the real reason for the same.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Singha » 23 May 2018 10:21

indeed - even with no radar or aircraft equipments, the ships sea trials could commence .... there would be 1000s of test cases non involving these.
instead of radar they could bolt some steel plates to simulate the weight for CG calculations.
instead of aircraft some piles of steel plates again, not that plane weights would matter much in a ship this large but a heavy weight high up on the mast does need some structural test.

the ship is already floating in the water, so means the propellers and engines must be in place.

nothing should block the fitment of electrical systems, living areas etc.

Cheen has the advantage of being the worlds largest or 2nd largest merchant shipbuilder - so churning out dozens of large vessels - containers, gas tankers, oil tankers the kind of planning and ecosystem it needs is not unknown to them, we are small on commercial side and our naval production runs are again quite small...... boils down to hard fought experience and ecosystem.........whatever be the quality they build @ web scale and then get to the quality.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 23 May 2018 11:34

A strategic masterplan to once again make India a huge maritime power as in the past must be undertaken.Unless we are able to build our own vessels, both naval and for the merchant fleet, we will be inferior to other nations.We have vast maritime interests far more than SoKo or Japan.Yet their shipbuilding capabilities dwarf our own.
Nitin G., who is a dynamic minister should be tasked with this endeavour, to overhaul our shipbuilding and modernising our yards.

First decision.Take over Pipapav from Reliance.Give the yard large orders first for merchant vessels and naval auxiliaries like fleet support ships, survey vessels, etc., before turning it into a builder of major warships.Let MDL
manage it as it's Mazagon facilities have little room for expansion.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chola » 23 May 2018 11:59

Singha wrote:indeed - even with no radar or aircraft equipments, the ships sea trials could commence .... there would be 1000s of test cases non involving these.
instead of radar they could bolt some steel plates to simulate the weight for CG calculations.
instead of aircraft some piles of steel plates again, not that plane weights would matter much in a ship this large but a heavy weight high up on the mast does need some structural test.

the ship is already floating in the water, so means the propellers and engines must be in place.

nothing should block the fitment of electrical systems, living areas etc.

Cheen has the advantage of being the worlds largest or 2nd largest merchant shipbuilder - so churning out dozens of large vessels - containers, gas tankers, oil tankers the kind of planning and ecosystem it needs is not unknown to them, we are small on commercial side and our naval production runs are again quite small...... boils down to hard fought experience and ecosystem.........whatever be the quality they build @ web scale and then get to the quality.


I wouldn’t think it would be easy to break moorings, sea trial the Vikrant and then get all the connections back in place again for fitting, no?

During the fitting out period there are must be thousands of things inside and out on the ship that are set up to bring in all the parts and modules to be fitted and then the people and equipment to actually fit them and finally power and water to allow the equipment to work. Besides, you probably need to sea trial again anyways after all work is done.

We need to make the suppliers responsible. This thing’s been going on since 2009, my gawd. Why wasn’t the radar and aviation complex done and waiting for the ship? That is how modulization works. All the different pieces should have been done ahead of time. The hull waiting for the subcomponents? No, in proper business planning, the components should be there and waiting for the main body to use.

Are we not paying these firang ******** ahead of time? Were they waiting for payment? If we paid them then why the delay? They had a damn decade.

I can’t get my head around this kind of project management/business planning. In an equivalent situation, say a private company dependent a cruise ship being built, the customer would have gone out of business and would be suing its suppliers now.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 23 May 2018 21:35

Navy Chief on #Quad: No need for military dimensions to quad. No military order. We are not going down that route.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 24 May 2018 03:45

Any quote or interview for the same?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chola » 24 May 2018 04:54

^^^

https://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news/indian-navy-chief-says-no-need-to-give-military-angle-to-the-quad/story-VZVrnkwhvVRICt5UwXB9tN_amp.html

‘The quad’, a proposed alliance among the United States, India, Japan and Australia to counter a rising Chinese presence in the Indo-Pacific, does not have a military dimension, India’s senior-most military commander said on Wednesday.

“What do you think a military dimension will achieve? India is the only country in the Quad with a land border with China. In case of conflict…nobody will come and hold your hand,” navy chief Admiral Sunil Lanba said, playing down the larger role the alliance was supposed to play in due course.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 24 May 2018 06:54

"...In case of conflict…nobody will come and hold your hand,” navy chief Admiral Sunil Lanba said.

Thank you chola for the above.

Writing is on the wall ---> so much for the Indo-US bonhomie vis-a-viv China.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/997792681811169280 --->

So India's 'natural partner', the United States:
1. Tries to ruin India's critical defence ties with Russia
2. Complicates India's energy security by sanctioning Iran.
3. Reduces the competitiveness of Indian IT.
4. Takes India to the WTO.
And some want to sign COMCASA?

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/997805559268237314 ---> Somehow, Kissinger's quote, 'To be an enemy of America can be dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal', keeps ringing in my ears.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 24 May 2018 09:32

Admiral Lanba statement should be pouring of water on dreams of country like US and Australia who were hoping of military alliance against China and using India as their little poodle in IOR region.

Any one who has known Indian FP know too well that India will not opt for any military alliance on either side and will maintain a independent non-block policy. India is quite capable on its own to take on China should the need arise.

Modi-Putin meet: Sochi throws up non-bloc security for Indo-Pacific

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Khalsa » 24 May 2018 16:33

Honestly .... have a look at the Australian Navy.
they have 1 destroyer
8 good frigates
2 really old frigates.

and a country the size of 3 indias or more.
I might as well include Bangladesh in my quad and they will bring the same fire power.

you are not missing out on much.
Aussies dont bring much to the party.
they are dependant on US

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby John » 24 May 2018 16:46

^ Not sure how Sq area of the country matters ( so you are telling me Greenland (Denmark) should field one of most powerful navies in the world) Australia population is only 24 million so they are relatively small but have high GDP/Def budget.

They are fielding 3 Hobart class DDG which are one of most expensive vessels built ( Australia defense procurement gives GOI a run for the money when it comes to overspending).

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Singha » 24 May 2018 17:45

quite capable ships with SPY radar and SM2/ESSM based off the Spanish F100 design

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chola » 24 May 2018 21:11

So followng the Ka-226 buy that cuts into LUH, the Navy is going full throttle to get their firang helos in before someone suggests a Dhruv derivative.

The Navy does have a case in arguing immediately need. And the Seahawk is a true and tried top-of-the-line vehicle in its class (unlike the Ka-226.) Still disappointing to see yet another $2BILLION going into someone else’ MIC.

https://www.latestly.com/india/information/india-navy-to-get-naval-multi-role-helicopters-mh-60-romeo-from-united-states-176157.html

Indian Navy to Get Naval Multi-role Helicopters MH 60 ‘Romeo’ From United States


New Delhi, May 22: India is mulling over buying 24 multi-role helicopters for the Indian Navy. The deal would be worth $2 billion. The government would procure these helicopters through a direct government purchase from the United States.

Image
Indian Navy to Get Naval Multi-role Helicopters MH 60 ‘Romeo’ From United States
Indian navy to get 24 MH-60R helicopters fro the US (Photo Credit: http://www.lockheedmartin.com)


The navy has a critical requirement of choppers to carry out important missions ranging from anti-submarine operations to fire support and early warning at sea. According to a report published in The Economic Times, the proposal under the foreign military sales route is to purchase 24 of the advanced MH 60 ‘Romeo’ choppers that can be deployed from warships and is being considered as the fastest way to add the capability to the Navy.


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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chetak » 24 May 2018 21:26

chola wrote:
Singha wrote:indeed - even with no radar or aircraft equipments, the ships sea trials could commence .... there would be 1000s of test cases non involving these.
instead of radar they could bolt some steel plates to simulate the weight for CG calculations.
instead of aircraft some piles of steel plates again, not that plane weights would matter much in a ship this large but a heavy weight high up on the mast does need some structural test.

the ship is already floating in the water, so means the propellers and engines must be in place.

nothing should block the fitment of electrical systems, living areas etc.

Cheen has the advantage of being the worlds largest or 2nd largest merchant shipbuilder - so churning out dozens of large vessels - containers, gas tankers, oil tankers the kind of planning and ecosystem it needs is not unknown to them, we are small on commercial side and our naval production runs are again quite small...... boils down to hard fought experience and ecosystem.........whatever be the quality they build @ web scale and then get to the quality.


I wouldn’t think it would be easy to break moorings, sea trial the Vikrant and then get all the connections back in place again for fitting, no?

During the fitting out period there are must be thousands of things inside and out on the ship that are set up to bring in all the parts and modules to be fitted and then the people and equipment to actually fit them and finally power and water to allow the equipment to work. Besides, you probably need to sea trial again anyways after all work is done.

We need to make the suppliers responsible. This thing’s been going on since 2009, my gawd. Why wasn’t the radar and aviation complex done and waiting for the ship? That is how modulization works. All the different pieces should have been done ahead of time. The hull waiting for the subcomponents? No, in proper business planning, the components should be there and waiting for the main body to use.

Are we not paying these firang ******** ahead of time? Were they waiting for payment? If we paid them then why the delay? They had a damn decade.

I can’t get my head around this kind of project management/business planning. In an equivalent situation, say a private company dependent a cruise ship being built, the customer would have gone out of business and would be suing its suppliers now.


The problems are also with the unions.

CSY expressly forbids the unionizing of its staff, and it was prohibited right from the very beginning.

But, in true Kerala style, the shipyard's contractors are all fully unionized. No supplier is without a union and they all join together to hamstring the management.

Go figure.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby John » 24 May 2018 22:12

Singha wrote:indeed - even with no radar or aircraft equipments, the ships sea trials could commence .... there would be 1000s of test cases non involving these.
instead of radar they could bolt some steel plates to simulate the weight for CG calculations.
instead of aircraft some piles of steel plates again, not that plane weights would matter much in a ship this large but a heavy weight high up on the mast does need some structural test.

the ship is already floating in the water, so means the propellers and engines must be in place.

nothing should block the fitment of electrical systems, living areas etc.

Cheen has the advantage of being the worlds largest or 2nd largest merchant shipbuilder - so churning out dozens of large vessels - containers, gas tankers, oil tankers the kind of planning and ecosystem it needs is not unknown to them, we are small on commercial side and our naval production runs are again quite small...... boils down to hard fought experience and ecosystem.........whatever be the quality they build @ web scale and then get to the quality.

Simply using excuses rather than finding ways to work around it, look at P-15B Vishakapatnam it is sitting there because of supposed delays with propulsion system but that doesn't explain why only housing for radar has been fitted in last 1+ year.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chola » 24 May 2018 23:51

chetak wrote:
chola wrote:
I wouldn’t think it would be easy to break moorings, sea trial the Vikrant and then get all the connections back in place again for fitting, no?

During the fitting out period there are must be thousands of things inside and out on the ship that are set up to bring in all the parts and modules to be fitted and then the people and equipment to actually fit them and finally power and water to allow the equipment to work. Besides, you probably need to sea trial again anyways after all work is done.

We need to make the suppliers responsible. This thing’s been going on since 2009, my gawd. Why weren’t the radar and aviation complex done and waiting for the ship? That is how modulization works. All the different pieces should have been done ahead of time. The hull waiting for the subcomponents? No, in proper business planning, the components should be there and waiting for the main body to use.

Are we not paying these firang ******** ahead of time? Were they waiting for payment? If we paid them then why the delay? They had a damn decade.

I can’t get my head around this kind of project management/business planning. In an equivalent situation, say a private company dependent a cruise ship being built, the customer would have gone out of business and would be suing its suppliers now.


The problems are also with the unions.

CSY expressly forbids the unionizing of its staff, and it was prohibited right from the very beginning.

But, in true Kerala style, the shipyard's contractors are all fully unionized. No supplier is without a union and they all join together to hamstring the management.

Go figure.


Yes, I understand that unions and GOI “servants” way of doing things at places like Cochin can add extra time to any project.

But in this case the delays from the Indian side have already happened (including years of delay created by the Russkie dropping ball on specialized steel.) That lost time is water under the bridge.

My issue is given all this extra time why weren’t radar and aviation complex modules done and waiting for Cochin to fit?

This is delay added on top of delay. Worse in that we are paying the phoreners to be professional and proficient in things we are not.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Khalsa » 25 May 2018 02:53

John wrote:^ Not sure how Sq area of the country matters ( so you are telling me Greenland (Denmark) should field one of most powerful navies in the world) Australia population is only 24 million so they are relatively small but have high GDP/Def budget.

They are fielding 3 Hobart class DDG which are one of most expensive vessels built ( Australia defense procurement gives GOI a run for the money when it comes to overspending).



Fine, it came out wrong but the stand remains.

They have a rather large coastline.
1. Denmark/ Greenland does not have China next to it building militarised bases off its coast and turning peaceful international waters into territorial waters.
2. Denmark / Greenland does not have Indonesia (largest muslim country) next to where one can possibly get across in a shack .
(to understand the above point you must be have lived with Australians for a while or be an Australia, them and Indonesia do not see eye to eye).
3. Australia has one of the largest reserves of fisheries and oil in the more violent / turbulent southern oceans where the Chinese trawlers are just stripping the ocean resources sometimes from even accepted oceanic reserves.

Trust my word on this. Australian Navy is hugely under resourced for the task at hand, however they do it admirably with whatever they have.
But they do consider themselves as the Mini Me Uncle Sam across the Southern Pacific and feel entitled to the same respect, admiration, love and fear that US gets.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 25 May 2018 04:44

A key reason for the naval warship/sub delays is the lack of continuous financial support from the GOI.There have been a few articles in the past bemoaning the funds shortage affecting completion of warships etc.The MOD's procurement policy/ system has been also criticised and poor fine print drafting in firang acquisitions
has seen us pay high costs for components as well as the delays.

Apart from warship delays, critical items like ASW helos, naval LUH,etc.afflict the combat capability too.Drip feeding the yards on some programmes will not help.Once a project is launched, the finance ministry must ensure the smooth funding of the same to ensure its success.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 25 May 2018 04:49

chetak wrote:But, in true Kerala style, the shipyard's contractors are all fully unionized. No supplier is without a union and they all join together to hamstring the management.

I am from Kerala. Communism ruined Kerala. Bunch of lazy farts. And the ones who want to do something or get something going, get drowned out by the shrill from the lazies. Off topic, but let me tell you a story. They wanted to build a bridge - somewhere in Kerala - to have ease of transport. The lazies said no - because according to them - only the rich (aka capatalists) own cars in Kerala. So the reasoning was since the bridge is only meant to be used for the rich, there is no need for a bridge. Conclusion of the Story? There is no bridge there. This is the kind of backward, gutter filled thinking in Kerala. They will not move ahead and they will not allow anyone else to move ahead either. Sense of Entitlement is an understatement to describe them.

chola wrote:So followng the Ka-226 buy that cuts into LUH, the Navy is going full throttle to get their firang helos in before someone suggests a Dhruv derivative.

The Navy does have a case in arguing immediately need. And the Seahawk is a true and tried top-of-the-line vehicle in its class (unlike the Ka-226.) Still disappointing to see yet another $2BILLION going into someone else’ MIC.

Good find chola! This is fantastic news if it comes to fruition. The MH-60R is a beast. And while I agree US $2 billion is going to someone else's MIC, it is a wise investment. IMRH (Indian Multi Role Helo) has not flown and the Navy believes the Dhruv does not meet the mark. At the same time, the Sea Kings need to be replaced ASAP. No point in a CATOBAR carrier, if your aviation assets are unusable.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 25 May 2018 05:11

https://twitter.com/IndianDefenceRA/sta ... 5571132417 ---> Capacity of 1000 tonne, built by Titagarh Wagons, 68 metre long and has a displacement of 2,000 tonne. Ship for carrying fuel to INS Vikramaditya launched in Kolkata.

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Video of the above launch...


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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 25 May 2018 05:27

https://twitter.com/indiandefence11/sta ... 8126031872 ---> Rare picture of 3M54E1 Club-S submarine-launched missile being loaded into INS Sindhuvijay's torpedo tubes. Club-S is a Subsonic Missile (Mach 0.8 ) with a range of 300 km (due to MTCR requirements ) possessing an inertial navigation system with active radar homing.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chola » 25 May 2018 08:01

Rakesh wrote:
chola wrote:So followng the Ka-226 buy that cuts into LUH, the Navy is going full throttle to get their firang helos in before someone suggests a Dhruv derivative.

The Navy does have a case in arguing immediately need. And the Seahawk is a true and tried top-of-the-line vehicle in its class (unlike the Ka-226.) Still disappointing to see yet another $2BILLION going into someone else’ MIC.

Good find chola! This is fantastic news if it comes to fruition. The MH-60R is a beast. And while I agree US $2 billion is going to someone else's MIC, it is a wise investment. IMRH (Indian Multi Role Helo) has not flown and the Navy believes the Dhruv does not meet the mark. At the same time, the Sea Kings need to be replaced ASAP. No point in a CATOBAR carrier, if your aviation assets are unusable.


No argument from me. The Seahawk will be a relevation to the Navy like the P-8 and the C-17 was to the IAF. When the IN gets a feel of its ability, flexibility and durability then they will look askance at anything else.

There in lies a rub too. When our military get a taste of top end Western equipment like this nothing else will feel up to par.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Singha » 25 May 2018 08:26

we are short of around 70 helicopters if we want both to retire the aeging sea kings and fill out every ship to its capacity + some for vikky + some for shore training and incoming ships.'

the sea kings are like our Mig21 now.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chola » 25 May 2018 08:37

Posted on DFI, night operations from the PLAN’s floating casino:


Now these are night launch and revovery on our Vikramaditya:




In our infinite wisdom we passed on the Varyag which the chinis bought for a mere $20M and decided on the much smaller and far less optimal STOVL cruiser Gorschkov which we got for “free” after spending $3B on work in Russia.

Ours are the better pilots for operating in pitch black darkness on a tiny landing deck occupied in part by a giant cruiser-type superstructure masquerading as a tower. But theirs have larger margin of safety on a bigger platform that is far more logically designed for carrier ops. The Su-33 ripoff is much bigger plane too but the chinis have a far roomier carrier.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 25 May 2018 08:46

We never had any naval ports that would have allowe us to berth the Varyag in early 90 , the Karwar which could do that came much later , during 90 we had no money to maintain existing ships much less buying a mammoth like varyag

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chola » 25 May 2018 08:59

Austin wrote:We never had any naval ports that would have allowe us to berth the Varyag in early 90 , the Karwar which could do that came much later , during 90 we had no money to maintain existing ships much less buying a mammoth like varyag


We did not have $20M? Even if we had to anchor the thing outside Mumbai it would have been worth it. Ukraine came to us first on buying the Varyag too. We were the one with a carrier arm but we let the PRC start theirs by passing on this.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby kit » 25 May 2018 09:30

chola wrote:
Rakesh wrote:

Good find chola! This is fantastic news if it comes to fruition. The MH-60R is a beast. And while I agree US $2 billion is going to someone else's MIC, it is a wise investment. IMRH (Indian Multi Role Helo) has not flown and the Navy believes the Dhruv does not meet the mark. At the same time, the Sea Kings need to be replaced ASAP. No point in a CATOBAR carrier, if your aviation assets are unusable.


No argument from me. The Seahawk will be a relevation to the Navy like the P-8 and the C-17 was to the IAF. When the IN gets a feel of its ability, flexibility and durability then they will look askance at anything else.

There in lies a rub too. When our military get a taste of top end Western equipment like this nothing else will feel up to par.


Maybe inspire HAL to develop a variant of the medium helicopter (is it still on the drawing board )
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_Medium_Lift_Helicopter

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby jaysimha » 25 May 2018 17:25

http://pib.nic.in/PressReleaseIframePag ... ID=1533485
Ministry of Defence
Commissioning of Fourth Ship of Landing Craft Utility MK-IV

‘IN LCU L54’ (GRSE Yard 2095) at Port Blair- 25 May 2018
Posted On: 25 MAY 2018 2:56PM by PIB Delhi
Vice Admiral GS Pabby, AVSM, VSM, Chief of Materiel commissioned IN LCU L54 into the Indian Navy today at Port Blair. IN LCU L54 is the fourth Landing Craft Utility (LCU) Mk-IV class to be inducted into the Indian Navy. The ship has been indigenously designed and built by Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers, Kolkata. The Commissioning of L-54 is yet another manifestation of the country’s indigenous design and ship building capability.

LCU MK-IV ship is an amphibious ship with its primary role being transportation and deployment of Main Battle Tanks, Armoured Vehicles, troops and equipment from ship to shore. These ships based at the Andaman and Nicobar Command, can be deployed for multirole activities like beaching operations, search and rescue, disaster relief operations, supply and replenishment and evacuation from distant islands.

The ship, commanded by Lieutenant Commander Munish Sethi, has a complement of 05 officers, 41 sailors and is capable of carrying 160 troops in addition. The ship, displacing 830 Tons, is capable of transporting various kinds of combat equipment such as the Main Battle Tank, T72 and other vehicles. The ship is fitted with state-of-the-art equipment and advanced systems like Integrated Bridge System (IBS) and Integrated Platform Management System (IPMS).

The remaining four ships of the same class are in advanced stages of construction at M/S GRSE, Kolkata and are scheduled to be inducted over the next year and a half. The induction of these ships will contribute to the nation’s maritime security needs and is in consonance with the Hon’ble Prime Minister’s drive for ‘Make in India’.

__________________________________________________________________________________

DKS/MS



(Release ID: 1533485) Visitor Counter : 68

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Kakarat » 25 May 2018 22:50

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/10 ... 7027234816

Desi designed & constructed FDN-2 (Floating Dock Navy) inducted into the #IndianNavy today. FDN-2 is equipped with state of art automated systems with modern facilities to ensure quality and swift repairs of warships. The dock can lift ships up to 8000 tonnes including frigates


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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chola » 25 May 2018 23:44




I almost forgot about the MCMV saga. Are these small ships really out of our capability? We had a tender out in 2008 and since then not one of our PSU yards had the drive to capture that $5B contract?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby John » 26 May 2018 00:02

chola wrote:
Austin wrote:We never had any naval ports that would have allowe us to berth the Varyag in early 90 , the Karwar which could do that came much later , during 90 we had no money to maintain existing ships much less buying a mammoth like varyag


We did not have $20M? Even if we had to anchor the thing outside Mumbai it would have been worth it. Ukraine came to us first on buying the Varyag too. We were the one with a carrier arm but we let the PRC start theirs by passing on this.

China spent a lot more than 20 million as per leaked information they pumped billions into it and channeled hundreds of engineers from Ukraine and Russians for this. Lot of Russian oligarchs made some $$ from this. This at scale and corruption at which India can never do and keep it under wraps. If we bought it it would been sitting there rusting and likely salvaged for cheap scrap.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chola » 26 May 2018 00:20

John wrote:
chola wrote:
We did not have $20M? Even if we had to anchor the thing outside Mumbai it would have been worth it. Ukraine came to us first on buying the Varyag too. We were the one with a carrier arm but we let the PRC start theirs by passing on this.

China spent a lot more than 20 million as per leaked information they pumped billions into it and channeled hundreds of engineers from Ukraine and Russians for this. Lot of Russian oligarchs made some $$ from this. This at scale and corruption at which India can never do and keep it under wraps. If we bought it it would been sitting there rusting and likely salvaged for cheap scrap.


Yes, it was billions more to make the Varyag into something functional.

But they paid $20M onlee to Ukraine to make it theirs.

Now the billions the chinis spent on the Varyag went into their industry which in turn led to their quick turnaround on the Type 001A. And that will be magnified by the Type 2 and 3 coming down their pipeline.

Our billions on the Gorshkov went to Sevmash and the Russian MIC. Cochin and the infrastructure with which we are building the Vikrant now gained NOTHING from those billions we’ve sunk into Russia.

In the best case scenario, we could have anchored it, spent for the infrastructure when economics were better and then have an ecosystem created around re-building the Varyag. Ending up with a 65K ton carrier years ago that the IN is asking for today!

In the worse case, we could have bought it, let it rust and deny the PRC the chance at a ready-made hull which would have stunted their carrier development by decades if not permanently.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chola » 26 May 2018 00:33

BTW, Cheen also bought two of Gorshkov’s sister stovl cruisers — Minsk and Kiev — and just left them sitting around as museums.

Theoretically they could have had two Vikramadityas to our one. But instead they decided it was better to spend their money on two Varyags (Liaoning and Type 001A.)

If we had taken the Varyag away as an option then at worst we would have forced them onto the smaller Kiev class and hung the MiG-29 around their necks instead of bigger planes on a bigger platform. At best, we could have turned them away from carriers completely if they only had the Kievs to work with.


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