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Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Gagan » 24 Feb 2017 01:27

The radar mast must have been damaged, the radar itself may be damaged too.
This boat is pretty thick skinned - literally. Indian shipyards use a thicker steel plates, and the skeleton was well made too!

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya G » 24 Feb 2017 02:58

Any pictures of Sindhurakshak?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby hnair » 24 Feb 2017 13:06

The boat does not seem to have any obvious hull distortions, other than the removed elements of superstructure. The internal structures are a different matter. Hopefully good!

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Singha » 24 Feb 2017 13:58

hmm..so vina was not right in saying it would be a total wreck and backbone broken.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby hnair » 24 Feb 2017 14:20

This is the ribcage of a merchant vessel in a cheen shipyard

Image

Looks sturdy enough to handle a tip-over, let alone a naval vessel. But would need to look out for more assessment reports

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby tsarkar » 24 Feb 2017 15:06

Nick_S wrote:Image


The water mark on the hanger deck at word "Dushman" & stern show the degree of water immersion.

Both the hanger and stern show no visible structural collapse, though ultrasonic testing would be carried out for each member. The helicopter deck is slightly buckled, but that can be replaced.

The towed array sonar winch too is intact in the stern. It isnt shorn off its mounting.

Elta 2238 & RAWL radars are available from decommissioned INS Godavari & INS Viraat, as are AK-630 guns & other stuff.

Important part is the flag flying. As long as the flag flies, it remains in commission.

<POOF>

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 302520.cms

NEW DELHI: Guided missile frigate INS Betwa, which had tipped over at the Mumbai naval dockyard on December 6, killing two sailors and injuring 14 others, has been salvaged to its upright position. The Navy says the damaged warship will be made operational once again by April 2018.

"INS Betwa is back on even keel, and floating like any other warship," said a Navy officer on Tuesday. The Navy had earlier inked a Rs 20 crore contract with an international salvage firm, Resolve Marine Group, to upright the 3,850-tonne frigate, as was reported by TOI.

The Navy has also completed its board of inquiry (BoI) headed by a Rear Admiral into the unprecedented mishap, during which the Brahmaputra-class frigate "slipped from her dock blocks", tilted and then crashed flat on her left (port) side while being undocked during a maintenance refit.

With the main naval dry dock at Mumbai blocked by INS Betwa, the Navy wants the frigate to be salvaged and made battle-ready to re-join the fleet as soon as possible. Commissioned in July 2004, INS Betwa had begun the two-year medium maintenance refit at the dockyard in April last year.

The mishap apparently occurred due to miscalculation of the "load distribution equilibrium" required in the complex and delicate undocking procedure, leaving the frigate heavily damaged with at least 25% flooding in its compartments.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 300295.cms

MUMBAI: Guided missile frigate INS Betwa, which had tipped over at the Mumbai naval dockyard on December 6, 2016, killing two sailors and injuring 14 others, has been salvaged to its upright position. The Navy says the damaged warship will be made operational once again by April 2018.

"The ship has been made upright and placed on even keel on Wednesday by the salvage team and is in a float position," Navy spokesperson (Delhi) DK Sharma told TOI. "She will be moved to either Duncan Dry Dock or Hughes Dry Dock for further refitting before made completely operational. The refit will be completed by April 16-18, which is before the deadline, and she will be back in the fleet."

In January, the navy had inked a Rs 20-crore contract with an international salvage firm, Resolve Marine Group, to upright the 3,850-tonne indigenously-built warship by February-end. "The ship sailed out of the dry dock and tests are on," said a source from the Indian Navy. "Initially, there were plans to salvage the warship, but after accessing her status, the navy has decided to set her upright and float her."

The warship was rested on the newly built blocks while she was being set upright and the ingress water pumped out. "About one-fourth of the ship was in water. After placing her on the new blocks, de-flooding of the dock was done and outer damages sealed before setting it upright," added the source. "In the second phase, we will check the inner machinery damages."

The navy has completed its board of inquiry, headed by a Rear Admiral into the unprecedented mishap, during which the Brahmaputra-class frigate "slipped from her dock blocks", tilted and then crashed flat on her left (port) side while being undocked during a maintenance refit. The mishap apparently occurred due to miscalculation of the "load distribution equilibrium" required in the complex and delicate undocking procedure, leaving the frigate heavily damaged with at least 25% flooding in its compartments. The role of the dock-master and other officers from the 'naval constructors' wing as well as the frigate's captain and crew will be examined by the board.

Meanwhile, the missile guided boat, INS Pralaya, which had been stuck in the Naval Dock since INS Betwa tipped over, finally sailed out on Wednesday after the warship was set upright.
Last edited by hnair on 24 Feb 2017 15:25, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Right now I have deleted your pointless innuendo against admins and attempts at trollbaiting. But your lack of self-discipline is getting tiring, even though you are a valuable poster. Next time you will get a ban. Your choice.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Muppalla » 26 Feb 2017 21:57

Israel Completes ‘Integrated Underwater Harbour Defense and Surveillance System’ for Indian Navy

IUHDSS is a modular system, tailor-made to meet specific customer needs. The system includes an advanced command and control system, a range of coastal surveillance radars, diver-detecting sonars, electro-optical sensors, and automatic threat identification systems. The central command and control system provides automatic integration of all sensors, creating a common situational picture for port defense.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 27 Feb 2017 08:34

Singha wrote:hmm..so vina was not right in saying it would be a total wreck and backbone broken.

Where is he? :)

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 27 Feb 2017 09:16

Vice Admiral Girish Luthra, FOC-in-C, WNC with the P-8I aircraft crew of the Indian Navy.
He witnessed surveillance & attack procedures of the P-8I.
https://twitter.com/writetake/status/834727980601520128

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 27 Feb 2017 09:22

INS Betwa on Even Keel: to be Fully Operational by April 2018
http://pib.nic.in/newsite/mbErel.aspx?relid=158657

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rishi Verma » 27 Feb 2017 09:33

Above article says "The navy has completed its board of inquiry, headed by a Rear Admiral..."

In the same paragraph the ending statement says "the role of dock master... and other officers will be examined by the board"

So is the BoI finished or not... Is this the Navy double speak or the journalist / editor..., kind of too early for BoI to be finished so soon.

Besides has anyone ever seen BoI report on prior accidents? Is such info available under RTI basis?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby JTull » 28 Feb 2017 19:36

India may ink Rs 32,000-cr deal for building minesweepers next month

India is likely to sign a Rs 32,000-crore deal with a South Korean shipyard for building 12 minesweeping vessels in the country by March 31.

The mine counter-measure vessels will be built at the Goa Shipyard Limited (GSL) in collaboration with Busan-based Kangnam Corporation under the Centre’s Make in India initiative. Though the deal was supposed to be closed last year, discussions on technology transfer to India caused some delays.

Minesweepers are used to keep sea lanes mine-free and destroy minefields near enemy shores while undertaking offensive action.

“We are working hard to conclude the contract this financial year,” GSL chairman Rear Admiral Shekhar Mital (retd) told HT on Tuesday. “Technology transfer is a complex issue, and both sides have to be satisfied. Ironing out the details took some time.”

Kangnam had competed with Italian shipbuilder Intermarine for the project.

All 12 vessels will be constructed in India, and are expected to have 60% indigenous content. The construction of the first vessel is expected to begin in April 2018, and deliveries will be completed between 2021 and 2026.

The navy needs to fill several gaps in its mine warfare capability. Its present mine counter-measure force consists of six vessels bought from the erstwhile Soviet Union in the late 1970s. An estimated 24 minesweepers are required to plug the shortfall.

Until now, the GSL has spent Rs 800 crore on scaling up infrastructure to kick off construction of the vessels. Facilities are being created for building glass-reinforced plastic hulls, a design that reduces the ship’s magnetic signature and allows safer navigation through waters that be mined. The minesweepers will have a displacement of 800 to 1,000 tonnes.

Mines are deployed to limit the enemy’s ability to use the sea. These underwater weapons can detonate on contact, or be activated by magnetic and acoustic signatures.

After scrapping an earlier tender to import minesweeping vessels due to alleged irregularities, the government nominated the GSL in February 2015 to build minesweepers in partnership with a foreign shipyard for giving an impetus to the Make in India programme.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby GhalibKabir » 01 Mar 2017 12:30

For what it is worth, looks like the first PLAN CATOBAR 001A type could get commissioned ahead of the INS Vikrant.. it is 300 m long

https://www.google.com.sg/maps/place/Da ... 21.6047984

the pace does seem rather frenetic. if this is the case, then

based on what i have been able to understand, it does seem the IN strategic plan would need at least 4-5 SSBNs, 5 SSNs and 25-30 odd SSKs to ensure adequate eyes on the PLAN/PN .. what gives? why is the Indian MoD babudom not helpful in upping the pace of fleet augmentation?

(a SOSUS in Arabian Sea, Andaman, UUVs, about 70-80 seahwaks, more p-8i might also be needed not to mention surface assets like cruiser size ships and helicopter carriers)

would be thankful to learn a thing or two..

PS: any idea if the domestic SSN construction has started? if so can learnings from the Arihant really quicken construction in realistic terms?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 01 Mar 2017 13:27

Any navy's CBGs intruding into the IOR will be heavily at risk from the IN/IAF's lad based aircraft,taking off from "INS India".Our TU-142 bears have a phenomenal radius of action,can fly to S.Africa and back without refuelling,and even our MKIs with refuelling car carry out strikes 1000 nm away.Bsed out of the A&N islands,even into the ICS/SCS. However,in the mighty expanse of the Pacific ,as we saw in WW2,carriers are essential as the small islands apart from Hawaii,Guam,Okinawa, cannot support large task forces.

Therefore,increasing the number of LRMP aircraft,equipping them with suitable stand-off missiles and tracking ingressing enemy (PLAN) surface forces through sats,UAVs,aircraft,SIGINT,etc.,shouldn't pose a problem.These forces also have to pass through waters controlled by sev. ASEAN nations in confined waters and straits where "invisibility" will be v. difficult.Submarines are another matter,why I put the priority of the IN as augmenting its sub fleet on a war footing,increasing both numbers of N-subs and diesel/AIP boats. Russia is building another 6 improved Kilos,the cheapest and fastest (to induct) sub type available. We should review our sub reqs. and future force inventory. A sqd. of upgraded maritime Backfires would also be an excellent addition to the IN's LR maritime strike capability as well as being able to carry any strat. forces munitions if required. Being supersonic,they would get into action very quickly and launch strikes at enemy forces over 100nm away,our landmass beyond the reach of most enemy ship-launched and air-launched missiles.Attacking the enemy CBGs before they arrive at their optimum launch positions is a pre-requisite.Here ,yet again our subs would be best to do the biz in advanced positions in the ICS.

What the IN needs are numbers of flat tops so that at least two are always available. Since INS Vikrant has already been launched and is in the fitting out process, I would still advocate another sister ship,perhaps a little larger with mods.,with GT engines,more affordable with much commonality with the IAC-1,before we build our large N-powered EMALS,whatever carrier for the future. The advent of UCAVs operating from carriers may usher in a revolution in the design and size of CVs.One report has it that some of the PLAN carriers being built are in the 50/55K t size.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby sohamn » 02 Mar 2017 04:42

GhalibKabir wrote:For what it is worth, looks like the first PLAN CATOBAR 001A type could get commissioned ahead of the INS Vikrant.. it is 300 m long

https://www.google.com.sg/maps/place/Da ... 21.6047984

the pace does seem rather frenetic. if this is the case, then



The picture looks like a STOBAR carrier.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby GhalibKabir » 02 Mar 2017 06:54

my bad, it is a STOBAR, regret the error.

@Philip, any idea when domestic SSNs might start getting constructed? 2023-4 for commissioning of the first boat seems optimistic to me

I for one feel disappointed that India did not internalize the Type 209 construction and related ToT in the 1980s. Instead the Rao govt ended up ordering the Kilos (not that they are bad). Fast forward to 2017 and I for one believe that we could have easily had a few more Type 209 Mod boats and a dozen Type 214/8s in service/under construction with access to the arguably best AIP in operation today, the Siemens PEMFC

While I do understand resources are a constraint (and hence do pardon the tyro like question), is it impossible to push 3 lines to make SSBNs, SSNs and SSKs (with DCNS with Barracuda SSN knowhow flowing back to the domestic SSN program). The SSKs being 12 extra Scorpenes with PEMFC AIP from Siemens?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 02 Mar 2017 11:09

No idea when.The design has to be frozen first.I'm sure that plans are quite advanced,but sub the is such a closely held secret ,esp. N-sub reactors. If as has been hinted at,that we will continue to get Ru support for the programme,the IN earlier asked for a Yasen instead of another Akula. That was premature as the RuN had only one Yasen in service ,has now built improved Yasens and is to build a new smaller class of attack sub to reduce costs.
I would venture that our SSN should acquire as much of tech as possible from Russia at least that on the improved Yasen.

We should've immediately ordered a few more Kilos in the aftermath of the SR catastrophe-once it was evident that weapons mishandling was the most likely reason.Cheapest and easiest to build,induct and operate.In the recent IN-USN exercises,a Kilo reportedly got the better of an LA class SSN. At just over $300m+,it is almost half the cost of a new Scorpene,whose capabilities were recently compromised with the French leaks. By now,we could've had 3 new Kilos in service.It was earlier reported that Russia could'v leased out to us some of their new Kilos.They're now building 6 more improved ones.

Apart from a few extra Kilos to make up numbers,a new line of U-boats would be best.This way ,we would have the best of the West and East.Since no new Kilos are being. obtained,the next best thing is to acquire the latest AIP diesel boat from Russia. MDL can build the U-boats after the Scorpene run (no more Scorpenes as even the non-AIP boats are terribly expensive),while L&T could build the Ru boats. The N-sub facility at Vizag could build both the SSBNs and SSNs. For repair,support,etc. of our upgraded Kilos which will serve for at least another decade,I think that the pip yard has already signed an agreement with Ru.This way both DPSU yards and the pvt. sector could chip in so that we induct at least 2 subs every year.With China and Pak combined to have almost 100 subs in the next decade,we need to possess at least 40-50 incl. N-boats.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby GhalibKabir » 02 Mar 2017 12:21

Fair Enough. The SSNs will be taxed way more than the SSBNs with rapid ramping up and ramping down of power in their hunting roles concurrent with severe stresses from diving frequently and quickly. I wonder what sort of reactor BARC has designed for the SSN. Even the Arihant class is kinda underpowered with the 85 MWt (15-17 MWe) reactor. we might need something like the K-15 french PWR with 32 MWe shaft electrical power to power the SSNs and later SSBNs after Aridhaman. Also the propulsion (mechanical reductors making way for all electric drives to min. noise) might do with a bit of borrowing from the Barracuda SSN. I would therefore say 3 more Scorpenes as 75i in exchange for SSN propulsion drive tech won't be a bad bargain.

The Kilos might be good for coastal till outer EEZ patrols. However as of today, the Russian Kristall 27E AIP IIRC is not known to be very efficient/tried and I don't know if the Russkies would have helped us with fitting say a Siemens PEMFC AIP. (also IMHO, the price of 300 mil$ for a SSK might be misleading considering the SSK's intensive maintenance as for ex: it has to go back to base incl. for AIP recharge once oxidizers etc run out,also 2-3 SSKs needed to just cover role of 1 SSN, so me thinks SSKs are not that cheap in life time costs vs SSNs. Also for the Scorpenes we don't know what part of the payment went for other support such as SSN tech related help by DCNS...so expensive could be subjective beyond a point)

For Ocean going and offensive roles, it might be best to get a new TKMS Type 214 variant under a new G2G deal with 3-4 boats having off the shelf AIP from TKMS and the rest with our PAFC/DMFC AIP. A total of 12 boats would be good here.. they could even get a few quickly by buying out Greek 214s.

You are right about the numbers though 4 SSBNs+6 SSNs+12 214s+9 Scorpenes+12 kilos+some of current subs will give us 40-50 subs by 2030 hopefully.. seems impossible though... esp. the 12 214s...those alone will be a whopping USD 25 bil (cons.cost 1 bil + life cycle cost regular 1 bil.). but they will be needed as more and more efficient Yuan class AIP SSKs get deployed in S Asia incl. with the 'itching for a conflict' pakistan.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby JTull » 02 Mar 2017 15:10

SM39 Exocet tested off first Scorpene INS Kalvari

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 02 Mar 2017 15:31

Indian Navy Puts Out Request For Short Range SAMs

https://sputniknews.com/asia/2017030210 ... range-sam/

In a 14-page paper, the Navy says, "The all-weather system should be able to be queued by data from Air Surveillance radar. Requirement for installation of dedicated Fire Control Radar/ Surveillance radar. Vendors must specify the feasibility of using existing radars like Fregat MAE, Fregat M2EM, AMDR2D, AMDR 3D, RAWL 08/ 02, MFSTAR, 3D SAR."

The RFI said the missile system should be adequate to engage target with speed of up to Mach 3. Navy asked vendors to specify maximum speed with qualifying conditions, if any, eg. flight altitude, stages of flight, etc. Vendors will have to provide details of type of Guidance (Command Line of Sight, Data Link, Proportional Navigation, etc) and stabilization of the missile for roll, pitch and yaw. The paper does not reveal the range Navy requires.

The Indian Navy sought details of the entire fire control system including targets that can be handled simultaneous and number of crew required for operating the system

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby kit » 02 Mar 2017 15:47

Austin wrote:Indian Navy Puts Out Request For Short Range SAMs

https://sputniknews.com/asia/2017030210 ... range-sam/

In a 14-page paper, the Navy says, "The all-weather system should be able to be queued by data from Air Surveillance radar. Requirement for installation of dedicated Fire Control Radar/ Surveillance radar. Vendors must specify the feasibility of using existing radars like Fregat MAE, Fregat M2EM, AMDR2D, AMDR 3D, RAWL 08/ 02, MFSTAR, 3D SAR."

The RFI said the missile system should be adequate to engage target with speed of up to Mach 3. Navy asked vendors to specify maximum speed with qualifying conditions, if any, eg. flight altitude, stages of flight, etc. Vendors will have to provide details of type of Guidance (Command Line of Sight, Data Link, Proportional Navigation, etc) and stabilization of the missile for roll, pitch and yaw. The paper does not reveal the range Navy requires.

The Indian Navy sought details of the entire fire control system including targets that can be handled simultaneous and number of crew required for operating the system



they should keep in mind the Chinese copy of the Brahmos

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby kit » 02 Mar 2017 15:48

GhalibKabir wrote:my bad, it is a STOBAR, regret the error.

@Philip, any idea when domestic SSNs might start getting constructed? 2023-4 for commissioning of the first boat seems optimistic to me

I for one feel disappointed that India did not internalize the Type 209 construction and related ToT in the 1980s. Instead the Rao govt ended up ordering the Kilos (not that they are bad). Fast forward to 2017 and I for one believe that we could have easily had a few more Type 209 Mod boats and a dozen Type 214/8s in service/under construction with access to the arguably best AIP in operation today, the Siemens PEMFC

While I do understand resources are a constraint (and hence do pardon the tyro like question), is it impossible to push 3 lines to make SSBNs, SSNs and SSKs (with DCNS with Barracuda SSN knowhow flowing back to the domestic SSN program). The SSKs being 12 extra Scorpenes with PEMFC AIP from Siemens?


wasn't there some leak of the Type 209 data via south Africa at that time as well ??

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby tsarkar » 02 Mar 2017 16:18

A glimpse of personnel who serve

Image

‘All set for circumnavigation on board INSV Tarini’

Sulogna Mehta | TNN | Feb 27, 2017, 11.06 PM IST

The adage 'Truth is stranger than fiction' fits well into the life story of young navy officer Lieutenant Swathi Patharlapaali.

Vizag's own daughter rose struggling from an extremely humble background and today she lives in one of those very same houses, where she used to assist her mother working as domestic help. She is part of the six-member all-women team, who will sail circumnavigating the globe on newly-commissioned Indian Navy's sailing vessel INSV Tarini this August. Already, she has been on several sailing expeditions on board INSV Mhadei. This naval officer tells Sulogna Mehta of TOI about her challenging childhood, life in the navy and her training for circumnavigation on a sail boat.

Tell us about your childhood and education

My mother Rani used to work as a maid in the Naval Park while father Adinarayana, is a defence civilian, working as head cook in the industrial canteen in the naval dockyard. I have two elder sisters Lavanya and Suvarna, who are qualified professionals and settled now. My mother used to work hard to give us a better future. She would keep working till pain took over and go to the hospital in a scooty herself. But she took a very tough yet far-sighted decision. Though most of the things were free at the Naval Park, she decided to bring us up in a different environment so that we don't choose her profession when we grow up. Therefore, amidst financial difficulties, my parents took a rented house in Malkapuram. While people hinted at marriage of three daughters, my mother made us educated and independent. I went to Balwadi centre, then to a school under Hindustan Shipyard and Sri Aditya College and tried to keep my academic score high. Today, most of my classmates are working as housemaids and their children going to the same Balwadi School, where I was invited to address an inspiration speech to the children. I am thankful for my parents' foresight in shifting from the Naval Park. Otherwise, my story would have been no different from theirs.

What made you join the Indian Navy?

Till my graduation, I couldn't speak English. But my father always urged me to join the Navy for which I kept scores around 85%. I cleared the Service Selection Board (SSB) in the first attempt and got a lot of cooperation and encouragement during my interview. Though I didn't know English properly, I was told, "Be yourself. Don't worry. We are not here to test your English." At 20 and half years of age, I was the youngest to join the Navy. I spent six years with the Navy till now including over two years with the ATC (Air Traffic Control). But still my craze and love for the Navy is the same.

How did you join sailing? Tell us about your training for the upcoming circumnavigation.

My mother was associated with the Navy's yacht club when she was three-months pregnant. She always told me to take it seriously as not everyone can afford this expensive sport. I was into sailing right from my NCC days when I was just 12 years old. For the upcoming circumnavigation, we have been practising for the last one year. No fixed time as practise and competitions are on almost always. We are being trained under retired commander Dilip Donde, who was the first Indian to go for a solo circumnavigation on INSV Mhadei in 2009-10. He trains us in a very practical manner. Instead of telling us, he makes us do the needful ourselves so that we know what to do in times of real crisis in the sea.

How did you come upon the idea of circumnavigation? How supportive did you find your people?

It was decision taken by the Indian Navy in 2014 and I had this vision since then. Not only the Navy and my parents, but my husband and in-laws have given full support. I had a court marriage last year to a marine commando from Bihar. He happened to read my life story in a naval publication and contacted me. We clicked and got married. He is so supportive that he convinced his parents about my dream expedition of circumnavigating the globe.

Any memorable expedition that you would like to talk about?

In January 2017, we went for the prestigious Cape to Rio race. Besides Payal Gupta and me, there were four male officers. Twenty countries had participated in the race and we emerged as the fastest Indian team to cross the Atlantic in just 20 days, which is a remarkable feat that too on a light 25-tonne little boat Mhadei. Earlier, Commander Donde had crossed the Atlantic in 31 days.

What sea route are you taking and how long will it take?

As of now, it has been decided that we, six women officers, will set sail from Goa on August 15 and the expedition would last 11 months. The route would be from Goa to Fremantle in Australia, Littleton in New Zealand, Falkland in South America, Cape Town in South Africa and back to Goa in India. We will take East to West bound route and go along with the ocean currents with stop-overs at the above-mentioned places for stocking provisions and checking the equipment or breakage.

Who will be the other officers with you on INSV Tarini?

The five other officers would be from different parts of India. They include Lt Commander Vartika Joshi, Lt Commander Pratibha Jamwal, Lt Aishwarya Boddapati, Lt Payal Gupta and Lt Vijaya Devi.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby GhalibKabir » 02 Mar 2017 16:26

kit wrote:
GhalibKabir wrote:my bad, it is a STOBAR, regret the error.

@Philip, any idea when domestic SSNs might start getting constructed? 2023-4 for commissioning of the first boat seems optimistic to me

I for one feel disappointed that India did not internalize the Type 209 construction and related ToT in the 1980s. Instead the Rao govt ended up ordering the Kilos (not that they are bad). Fast forward to 2017 and I for one believe that we could have easily had a few more Type 209 Mod boats and a dozen Type 214/8s in service/under construction with access to the arguably best AIP in operation today, the Siemens PEMFC

While I do understand resources are a constraint (and hence do pardon the tyro like question), is it impossible to push 3 lines to make SSBNs, SSNs and SSKs (with DCNS with Barracuda SSN knowhow flowing back to the domestic SSN program). The SSKs being 12 extra Scorpenes with PEMFC AIP from Siemens?


wasn't there some leak of the Type 209 data via south Africa at that time as well ??


IIRC, apparently the Soviets arm twisted Rajiv's and later Rao Govt into laying charges on HDW for info leaks and got India to buy Kilos instead of add on HDW Type 209s. I do not know if leaks really happened. Would be happy to learn from the veterans here.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby tsarkar » 02 Mar 2017 16:28

Dhruv on INS Sunayana.
Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby tsarkar » 02 Mar 2017 16:37

Live Indigenous PTA Lakshya and Imported PTA Banshee in service at INS Dega https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4oQa09WYAEZvfC.jpg:large

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby deejay » 02 Mar 2017 17:03

tsarkar wrote:A glimpse of personnel who serve

Image

‘All set for circumnavigation on board INSV Tarini’

Sulogna Mehta | TNN | Feb 27, 2017, 11.06 PM IST

The adage 'Truth is stranger than fiction' fits well into the life story of young navy officer Lieutenant Swathi Patharlapaali.

Vizag's own daughter rose struggling from an extremely humble background and today she lives in one of those very same houses, where she used to assist her mother working as domestic help. She is part of the six-member all-women team, who will sail circumnavigating the globe on newly-commissioned Indian Navy's sailing vessel INSV Tarini this August. Already, she has been on several sailing expeditions on board INSV Mhadei. This naval officer tells Sulogna Mehta of TOI about her challenging childhood, life in the navy and her training for circumnavigation on a sail boat.

Tell us about your childhood and education

My mother Rani used to work as a maid in the Naval Park while father Adinarayana, is a defence civilian, working as head cook in the industrial canteen in the naval dockyard. I have two elder sisters Lavanya and Suvarna, who are qualified professionals and settled now. My mother used to work hard to give us a better future. She would keep working till pain took over and go to the hospital in a scooty herself. But she took a very tough yet far-sighted decision. Though most of the things were free at the Naval Park, she decided to bring us up in a different environment so that we don't choose her profession when we grow up. Therefore, amidst financial difficulties, my parents took a rented house in Malkapuram. While people hinted at marriage of three daughters, my mother made us educated and independent. I went to Balwadi centre, then to a school under Hindustan Shipyard and Sri Aditya College and tried to keep my academic score high. Today, most of my classmates are working as housemaids and their children going to the same Balwadi School, where I was invited to address an inspiration speech to the children. I am thankful for my parents' foresight in shifting from the Naval Park. Otherwise, my story would have been no different from theirs.

What made you join the Indian Navy?

Till my graduation, I couldn't speak English. But my father always urged me to join the Navy for which I kept scores around 85%. I cleared the Service Selection Board (SSB) in the first attempt and got a lot of cooperation and encouragement during my interview. Though I didn't know English properly, I was told, "Be yourself. Don't worry. We are not here to test your English." At 20 and half years of age, I was the youngest to join the Navy. I spent six years with the Navy till now including over two years with the ATC (Air Traffic Control). But still my craze and love for the Navy is the same.

How did you join sailing? Tell us about your training for the upcoming circumnavigation.

My mother was associated with the Navy's yacht club when she was three-months pregnant. She always told me to take it seriously as not everyone can afford this expensive sport. I was into sailing right from my NCC days when I was just 12 years old. For the upcoming circumnavigation, we have been practising for the last one year. No fixed time as practise and competitions are on almost always. We are being trained under retired commander Dilip Donde, who was the first Indian to go for a solo circumnavigation on INSV Mhadei in 2009-10. He trains us in a very practical manner. Instead of telling us, he makes us do the needful ourselves so that we know what to do in times of real crisis in the sea.

How did you come upon the idea of circumnavigation? How supportive did you find your people?

It was decision taken by the Indian Navy in 2014 and I had this vision since then. Not only the Navy and my parents, but my husband and in-laws have given full support. I had a court marriage last year to a marine commando from Bihar. He happened to read my life story in a naval publication and contacted me. We clicked and got married. He is so supportive that he convinced his parents about my dream expedition of circumnavigating the globe.

Any memorable expedition that you would like to talk about?

In January 2017, we went for the prestigious Cape to Rio race. Besides Payal Gupta and me, there were four male officers. Twenty countries had participated in the race and we emerged as the fastest Indian team to cross the Atlantic in just 20 days, which is a remarkable feat that too on a light 25-tonne little boat Mhadei. Earlier, Commander Donde had crossed the Atlantic in 31 days.

What sea route are you taking and how long will it take?

As of now, it has been decided that we, six women officers, will set sail from Goa on August 15 and the expedition would last 11 months. The route would be from Goa to Fremantle in Australia, Littleton in New Zealand, Falkland in South America, Cape Town in South Africa and back to Goa in India. We will take East to West bound route and go along with the ocean currents with stop-overs at the above-mentioned places for stocking provisions and checking the equipment or breakage.

Who will be the other officers with you on INSV Tarini?

The five other officers would be from different parts of India. They include Lt Commander Vartika Joshi, Lt Commander Pratibha Jamwal, Lt Aishwarya Boddapati, Lt Payal Gupta and Lt Vijaya Devi.


Inspirational Story Sir. Thank You for sharing. Wish them fair winds and a successful round the world trip.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby JTull » 02 Mar 2017 17:54

tsarkar wrote:A glimpse of personnel who serve

Image

‘All set for circumnavigation on board INSV Tarini’


God speed!

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya G » 03 Mar 2017 02:53

Thanks for the pic. There is enough space for a Sea King on that deck.

Also, is that the "rail less helo traversing system" we keep hearing about?

tsarkar wrote:Dhruv on INS Sunayana.
Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Prem » 03 Mar 2017 04:09

http://www.oneindia.com/india/indian-na ... 62944.html
Indian Navy conducts successful firing of anti-ship missile
(Stinger By Scorpene)
The Indian Navy on Thursday successfully launched an anti-ship missile into the Arabian sea. The missile is from the indigenously built Kalvari class submarines. The missile successfully hit a surface target at extended ranges during the trial firing, held on Thursday morning.According to the details released by the Indian Navy, this missile launch is a significant milestone for the Kalvari, which is the first in a series of Scorpene class submarine being built in India.Prime Minister Narendra Modi congratulated the country's defense scientists for successfully testing the missile, saying it was a proud moment for the entire nation. The missile provide the submarine the ability to neutralize surface threats at extended ranges.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Bheeshma » 03 Mar 2017 04:19

:rotfl: How is firing exocet an accomplishment by Indian scientists ? :mrgreen: Cut copy paste zindabad!!

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 03 Mar 2017 19:32

There was no arm twisting for Kilos. They were a planned acquisition as follow on subs for the aging Foxtrots,which actually served us for another 2 decades. India was the first country after the USSR to operate Kilos. The Kilo has been one of the most successful conventional subs ever,held in the highest respect by the USN which dubbed them "black holes".All the Kilos are being upgraded-most already have,to fire 300km Klubs,which have a terminal homing supersonic warhead. The Scorpene's Exocets are somewhat inferior,being subsonic and have a max range of 180km. However,for both Klub and Exocet, it is the detection,targeting and tracking info which the sub has to possess to take advantage of its full range. Pak has also been using Exocet and sub-Harpoon for decades.

The reason why there were no more hDW U-boats built/ordered is becos of the HDW scandal,which took decades before it was put to rest for non-availability of evidence against the co. if one remembers correctly ,the then Indian envoy in Germany allegedly sent a confid memo to the GOI stating that the price of extra subs would increase due to the agent's commission. With Weepy Singh in power,he vengefully laid the blame at Rajiv's feet.Rajiv had nothing to do with the alleged kickbacks for the subs

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Pratyush » 03 Mar 2017 19:52

Was wondering how many types of ashm will be used by the IN.

Am counting

1 harpoon
2 Exocet.
3 klub.
4 stix
5 Brahmos
6 sea eagle. If it's still in service.
7 uran.

I wonder what is the inventory holding of each missile .

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby arun » 04 Mar 2017 14:33

Excerpted text of Feb 1, 2017 podcast which is mainly about the Russian Navy but the Indian Navy as a large buyer of Russian naval kit, gets a look in.

Interviewee Dr. Tom Fedyszyn says “The sense {given him by Indian Navy Officers} is that they don’t like the Russian ships, they don’t work too well, they’re suboptimal, but they can afford them” :

AO: Hello, and welcome to the Center for International Maritime Security’s Sea Control podcast. I’m Ashley O’Keefe, the CIMSEC Secretary, and I’m here today with Dr. Tom Fedyszyn, of the U.S. Naval War College. He’s been a member of the faculty here since 2000, and he serves as the senior advisor to the College’s Russian Maritime Studies Institute. He received a PhD from the Johns Hopkins University in Political Science while he was on active duty. His 31-year naval career included military assignments as the U.S. Naval Attaché to Russia, and two tours at NATO headquarters in Brussels. He commanded the USS Normandy and the USS William V. Pratt, and deployed to the Mediterranean, Baltic, and Norwegian Seas. He was a principal contributor to both the Lehman-era 1980s maritime strategy, and NATO’s strategic concept following the Cold War. He’s a nationally recognized expert and publishes regularly on maritime strategy, NATO strategy, and the Russian Navy, which is our topic today. …………………………………..

AO: Given that lens, my next question may seem a little silly, but what about the Shtorm 23000E, the next generation aircraft carrier? Defense News was reporting about it earlier this month, citing possible Indian Navy interest. Does this seem likely to be built? Will they keep trying?

TF: The Russian economy is built on exporting minerals (mostly oil and gas). Below that, it’s arms exports. They export almost as much as we do! But they have such a small economy that their arms sales really matter. So, when you look at Russian military capability, sometimes that’s just a small part of why they deploy. A larger part of why they deploy is to show off what type of technology they have and to try to sell it. You mentioned the Indian Navy. When I was in Moscow, there were more Indian officers there than from any other nation. U.S. was second. Why? Because the Russians, by the default of politics, ended up selling India its navy. Still today, about 70 percent of the Indian Navy is Russian. I’ve spoken to lots of Indian Navy officers about this. The sense is that they don’t like the Russian ships, they don’t work too well, they’re suboptimal, but they can afford them. The U.S. has this double-whammy where we’re not that good at selling high technology, and when we sell it, it costs a lot of money. And the Indian budget makes them buy Russian – and they continue to buy Russian. So, should the Russians be able to continue to build the Shtorm, India would be the most likely nation that would buy it.

But remember, of course, Russia just sold and delivered to them the Vikramaditiya, a ski-jump carrier which was 4 years overdue, 300 percent over budget, and every Indian naval officer I’ve spoken to has said, “Well, it’s not a good ship, but we needed an aircraft carrier and we could afford it, so we got what we got.” If this Shtorm really does turn out to be good, the Indians may well want it, but the Indians are also in the process of building their own nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, which would be their first choice, and if they can build it (they’re not very good at building ships either, unfortunately), they’ll stick with their domestic product.

Now, will the Russians actually build it? I would be very pessimistic. When they talk about Shtorm, they talk about building between 3 and 6. That’s how definitive they are – they can be off by a factor of two. It seems that they’re leaning in the direction of nuclear power, but sometimes you can read press articles that suggest maybe not. So they’re so unsure of where this is going, and their track record of having a yard that can build a 65,000 ton ship…it’s unlikely. In fact, if they ever get around to it, they’ll probably have to build it in two sections and then weld it together. I’m no shipbuilder, but I know this can’t be easy.


From here:

Sea Control 127 – Dr. Tom Fedyszyn on Russian Navy Ops, Acquisition, and Doctrine

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby arshyam » 04 Mar 2017 16:32

I’m no shipbuilder, but I know this can’t be easy.

Hmmm..
they’re (Indians) not very good at building ships either, unfortunately

Do we need to listen to such drivel?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 04 Mar 2017 16:50

He is just a Western hack that rose up the ladder talking and writing bs and usually they end up getting a Doctorate degree from good Western universities for that and cozy jobs in western institution .

The only respected US author I have found over the years that has written books worth the money is Norman Polmar and has indepth understanding in US and Russian naval programs.

The rest are like Rahul Bedi types end up writing for Jane's and are mostly clueless types quoting anonymous sources criticise as much as possible to justify their write-up and get cozy pushy jobs for such mags or Western think tank.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 04 Mar 2017 17:41

The "two Normans",Polmar and Friedman are excellent.Polmar and Moore's Cold War US and Sov. subs is a classic.The fact is that we've been using Russian/Soviet warships and subs for over 5 decades now and well know their shortcomings-camped crew facilities on older wares, and merits-durability and lesser cost than western wares. A veteran submariner told me that on Ru subs,one feature was that there were a number of layered safety features in the event eqpt. falure. Over a period of time, we've managed with our feedback to improve upon Sov/Ru products from our sub-continental experience which has been gracefully acknowledged too. Even current systems show that an Ru product is usually about 40-50% cheaper (initial cost) than a western alternative. As has been posted many a time,the Ru/Sov philosophy was to develop and build large numbers of weapon systems at low cost,with expendable components,which would be easy to use on the battlefield.Engine replacements for example would be at a faster rate than on western ones,thereby reducing engine costs. We've become used top operating their weapon systems over 50 years and esp. in the IN,are now building every class of warship and sub ourselves-to our designs incorporating the best of components,missiles,sensors,etc.from Russia and the west. It still can't be denied that Russia makes up for a huge % of weapon system origin,with all its pros and cons,but those very systems are what has helped us win our wars and some are worldbeaters which keep our enemies at bay.

PS:AS for quality of India warships,I remember the quote a few years back by a USN admiral ,that he would love to have a Delhi class DDG in his fleet after visiting one!

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 05 Mar 2017 21:13

Philip wrote:The "two Normans",Polmar and Friedman are excellent.


Yes I forgot about Norman Friedman , I havent read much of his write up but what ever little I did he is on par with Polmar , The only two I would ever spend money and care to read , the rest are just dodos

I have Norman Friedman "Network-centric Warfare: How Navies Learned to Fight Smarter Through Three World Wars" which is quite informative read.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 06 Mar 2017 13:09

Some good news.The Scorpene timeline for induction has finally been confirmed by the IN.Let's hope that the Scorpenes receive their "sting" too (torpedoes) asap.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... oAH5K.html
Indian Navy outlines timeline for induction of Scorpene submarines
INDIA Updated: Mar 05, 2017
PTI, New Delhi
Indian Navy
Leaving behind the data leak episode, the Indian Navy has finally drawn up a timeline for induction of the six French-designed Scorpene submarines and the first two vessels are expected to be commissioned by end of the year.

Top Navy sources said the Kalvari, the first of the highly-advanced submarines, is set for induction by middle of this year as the complex process of integrating it with missiles and weapons system was nearing completion.

The submarines are being built at the Mazagon Dock Ltd in Mumbai with technology from French defence major DCNS under a project called P-75 at a cost of around $ 3.5 billion.

As per the plan, the second submarine Khanderi will be inducted into the Navy fleet by end of 2017 and thereafter each vessel will be commissioned at an interval of nine months.

The submarines are expected to significantly boost India’s naval prowess when China was fast expanding its maritime presence in the Indian Ocean.

In August, over 22,000 pages of top secret data on the capabilities of the submarines were leaked with an Australian newspaper putting the details on its website, triggering apprehensions that the leak may compromise the stealth capabilities of the vessels.

India-built Scorpene submarine Kalvari test-fires missile, shows its sting

Understanding Scorpene leak: Why India’s next-gen subs are now vulnerable
Navy sources, then, had said the document was dated and the Indian submarine had undergone “many changes” from the initial design, the details of which have been leaked.

The Project 75 has been hit by delays as the multi-billion dollar project was signed by the defence ministry with French firm DCNS in October 2005.

The first four submarines will be conventional while the last two are to be equipped with the Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) system, which will enable the vessel to stay underwater for longer duration.

All the six diesel-electric attack submarines will be equipped with the anti-ship missile, which has a proven record in combat, besides other weapon systems.

The navy on Thursday had successfully test-fired an anti-ship missile from the Kalvari.

Construction of the first submarine had started on May 23, 2009 and the project is running four years behind schedule.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 06 Mar 2017 13:20

Now for the really bad news. The acute shortage of naval helos,esp. as the PNS' best asset are their AIP subs,plus regular visits into the IOR by PLAN subs,has left the IN and its ASW defences in a precarious state.The IN/MOD must finalise this aviation requirement before any other,like the amphibs,etc.,as it affects the entire surface and carrier fleet.

One cannot also understand why after the Sikorsky birds were chosen a couple of years ago,why the deal still languishes? MP must smack babu heads together and seal the existing deals,plus advance on a war footing the decision about the ASW helos. WEE recently acquired much needed ammo,etc. the same way so that we would be able to fight a short war if it broke out.Our entire naval assets are at great risk from enemy subs.We do not need another Khukri sinking again!

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 481765.cms
Lack of helicopters hits Navy's operational capabilities against enemy submarines

Rajat Pandit | TNN | Updated: Mar 5, 2017, 10.44 PM IST

HIGHLIGHTS
Navy desperately requires 147 multi-role helicopters (MRHs) with anti-submarine warfare capabilities
Even the initial procurement of 16 MRHs, with an option for eight more, has not materialised
The long-winded acquisition of 123 more naval MRHs as well as 110 NUHs is yet to even kick off


NEW DELHI: The critical shortage of helicopters has emerged as the most alarming operational gap+ in the Navy, even more than submarines, minesweepers and missiles, with new acquisition and production projects failing to make any headway for well over a decade now.
The Navy, in fact, desperately requires+ 147 multi-role helicopters (MRHs) with anti-submarine warfare capabilities, without which its warships are virtually defenceless against enemy submarines, and 110 twin-engine naval light utility helicopters (NUHs) to replace obsolete single-engine Chetaks.
But even the initial procurement of 16 MRHs, with an option for eight more, has not materialised+ despite being granted the "acceptance of necessity" way back in 2005.

*(12 bl**dy years! What the "F" is happening?)

Instead, the global tender for this project issued in 2008 is now on the verge of being scrapped, with cost negotiations with helicopter-manufacturer Sikorsky (acquired by US armament giant Lockheed Martin) remaining deadlocked.
Moreover, the long-winded acquisition of 123 more naval MRHs as well as 110 NUHs is yet to even kick off because of the defence ministry's failure to finalize the "strategic partnership" model under the "Make in India" policy.
The situation has become so desperate+ that the Navy has now submitted a "dissent note" to the MoD against the move to junk the procurement of 16 S-70B Seahawk choppers from Sikorsky, say sources.
The MoD remains strongly opposed to Sikorsky's demand for a steep price hike for the 16 choppers on the ground the contract finalization has been pending for several years, as was reported by TOI earlier.
"In its dissent note, the Navy says the 16 MRHs are a critical operational necessity. Sikorsky extended the validity of its old commercial bid several times but, in early-2016, held it could not do so any longer. But MoD feels the new price is too high, over 40% more than the original benchmarking price," said a source.
The Navy is inducting four to five warships every year, in tune with its plan to become a 212-warship force by 2027, but has virtually run out of MRHs to operate from their decks to detect, track and kill enemy submarines.
Such choppers fly ahead of warships to "dunk" their sonars into the deep waters, "ping" for enemy submarines and let loose torpedoes and depth charges against them to clear the path for the fleet.

The Navy currently has just 10 Kamov-28 and 17 Sea King helicopters to defend its existing fleet of 138 warships. While the Sea Kings are well over 20 years old, the Kamov-28s are now undergoing a mid-life upgrade under a $294 million deal inked with Russia last year.
Incidentally, with the armed forces overall requiring around 1,200 helicopters of different types over the next 10-15 years to replace ageing fleets at an estimated cost of over Rs 1.5 lakh crore, sources say the tri-Service Integrated Defence Staff has also formulated a "consolidated helicopter acquisition strategy" under the Defence Procurement Procedure-2016.



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