Bharat Rakshak Forum Announcement

Hello Everyone,

A warm welcome back to the Bharat Rakshak Forum.

Important Notice: Due to a corruption in the BR forum database we regret to announce that data records relating to some of our registered users have been lost. We estimate approx. 500 user details are deleted.

To ease the process of recreating the user IDs we request members that have previously posted on the BR forums to recognise and identify their posts, once the posts are identified please contact the BRF moderator team by emailing BRF Mod Team with your post details.

The mod team will be able to update your username, email etc. so that the user history can be maintained.

Unfortunately for members that have never posted or have had all their posts deleted i.e. users that have 0 posts, we will be unable to recreate your account hence we request that you re-register again.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your understanding.

Regards,
Seetal

Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Singha
Forum Moderator
Posts: 57981
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: I stood eye to eye with The Beast and he told me everything...

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Singha » 06 Mar 2017 13:47

INS Viraat is retiring today.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 18759
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 06 Mar 2017 14:33

Kalvari Submarine Firing Exocet SM39 Block 2

Image

Image

Image

JTull
BRFite
Posts: 1967
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby JTull » 06 Mar 2017 16:21

Austin those images are from marketing pics from MBDA website and not of actual Kalvari test.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 18759
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 06 Mar 2017 16:43

^^ Yes but the idea was to show how it is loaded inside Scorpene class and launched , May be I should been more clear.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16396
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 06 Mar 2017 17:19

Addl. info from the TOI on the helo crisis.Xcpt:

The situation has become so desperate+ that the Navy has now submitted a "dissent note" to the MoD against the move to junk the procurement of 16 S-70B Seahawk choppers from Sikorsky, say sources.
The MoD remains strongly opposed to Sikorsky's demand for a steep price hike for the 16 choppers on the ground the contract finalization has been pending for several years, as was reported by TOI earlier.
"In its dissent note, the Navy says the 16 MRHs are a critical operational necessity. Sikorsky extended the validity of its old commercial bid several times but, in early-2016, held it could not do so any longer. But MoD feels the new price is too high, over 40% more than the original benchmarking price," said a source.
The Navy is inducting four to five warships every year, in tune with its plan to become a 212-warship force by 2027, but has virtually run out of MRHs to operate from their decks to detect, track and kill enemy submarines.
Such choppers fly ahead of warships to "dunk" their sonars into the deep waters, "ping" for enemy submarines and let loose torpedoes and depth charges against them to clear the path for the fleet.
Top Comment

The Navy currently has just 10 Kamov-28 and 17 Sea King helicopters to defend its existing fleet of 138 warships. While the Sea Kings are well over 20 years old, the Kamov-28s are now undergoing a mid-life upgrade under a $294 million deal inked with Russia last year.
Incidentally, with the armed forces overall requiring around 1,200 helicopters of different types over the next 10-15 years to replace ageing fleets at an estimated cost of over Rs 1.5 lakh crore, sources say the tri-Service Integrated Defence Staff has also formulated a "consolidated helicopter acquisition strategy" under the Defence Procurement Procedure-2016.


PS:This consolidated strategy will never produce results in ahurry becos you have to discuss matters with all 3 services! One knows how many years that will take before all 3 services decide ,each one will wnat its own favourite.Asinine strategy.It makes sense only when the helo platform is the same and variants for each are looked after by the design team,HAL whoever. How can you club Russian manufacturers like Kamov with Sikorsky of the US and Eurocopter or AW from the EU? There are few helos which fit all "feet"! Even the KA-226 decision,signed by Putin and Modi ,where desi HAL would be the local manufacturer hasn't been sealed. At this rate we are simply inviting the Chinese and Pakis to walk in and grab what they can.It will be left to poor old "Johnny Jawan" tp hold the fort.

jayasimha
BRFite
Posts: 298
Joined: 09 Feb 2011 17:31

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby jayasimha » 06 Mar 2017 18:11

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease. ... lid=158539

Press Information Bureau
Government of India
Ministry of Defence
17-February-2017 18:16 IST
Indian Navy Concludes First Contract Under Buy and Make (Indian) Category

A contract between Nova Integrated Systems Ltd and Indian Navy for procurement of Surface Surveillance Radars (SSR) has been concluded today. This is the first contract concluded under the Buy and Make (Indian) Category, in line with the Government’s ‘Make in India’ initiative. Nova Integrated Systems Ltd, a fully owned subsidiary of Tata Advanced System Ltd, would indigenously manufacture these state-of-the-art radars in collaboration with Terma, Denmark. This contract marks the entry of Indian Private Industry in production of hi-tech sensors for the Indian Navy. Procurement of SSR is a part of Indian Navy’s Plan for modernisation of its Fleets, and these radars would also be installed onboard the ships under construction. The government’s drive to modernise the Armed Forces and build an Indian Defence Industrial Base with participation of Private Industry gets a major boost with the signing of this contract today.

***


DKS/AC 12/17

jamwal
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 4791
Joined: 19 Feb 2008 21:28
Location: Somewhere Else
Contact:

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby jamwal » 07 Mar 2017 10:54

INS Viraat had Barak ?

Livefist‏ @livefist 13h13 hours ago
More
On #INSViraat, here are the 16 × IAI-Rafael Barak SAM VL cells, fitted in late 2004. pic.twitter.com/eWaMHToNzx

hnair
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3286
Joined: 03 May 2006 01:31
Location: India/US

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby hnair » 07 Mar 2017 11:46

jamwal wrote:INS Viraat had Barak ?

Livefist‏ @livefist 13h13 hours ago
More
On #INSViraat, here are the 16 × IAI-Rafael Barak SAM VL cells, fitted in late 2004. pic.twitter.com/eWaMHToNzx


yes, apparently the only VL of Barak1 with the in IN, that can be reloaded at sea!

pic from the late B Harry
Image

JayS
BRFite
Posts: 1920
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby JayS » 07 Mar 2017 12:20

Philip wrote: Even the KA-226 decision,signed by Putin and Modi ,where desi HAL would be the local manufacturer hasn't been sealed. At this rate we are simply inviting the Chinese and Pakis to walk in and grab what they can.It will be left to poor old "Johnny Jawan" tp hold the fort.

The deal is stuck on the Russian end because Putin is yet to approve it, isnt' it..??

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2531
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karthik S » 07 Mar 2017 16:37

Looks like 3 talwar class ships will be made in Goa while 1 in Russia.

https://in.rbth.com/economics/defence/2 ... goa_714961

srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3289
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby srai » 07 Mar 2017 17:35

Interesting ... they need to remove an entire front panel on the Scorpene to load the torpedoes and missiles.

Image
Image

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14744
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chetak » 07 Mar 2017 23:23

twitter


1st image of INS Betwa, sitting on an even keel after being made upright after a major accident during refit at the Naval Dockyards, Mumbai.

Image

Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3142
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya G » 08 Mar 2017 02:25

jamwal wrote:INS Viraat had Barak ?

Livefist‏ @livefist 13h13 hours ago
More
On #INSViraat, here are the 16 × IAI-Rafael Barak SAM VL cells, fitted in late 2004. pic.twitter.com/eWaMHToNzx


Hopefully will find its way into in service ships esp project 28 ships

Rakesh
Webmaster BR
Posts: 2850
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 08 Mar 2017 06:33

$4bn sanctioned for 4 new Guided Missile Frigates with Brahmos for the Indian Navy
http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=250843

Singha
Forum Moderator
Posts: 57981
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: I stood eye to eye with The Beast and he told me everything...

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Singha » 08 Mar 2017 08:02

Another bailout sweetheart deal for our best friends. It never ends.

This when we should have made 2 p17 in goa and licensed 2 p17 construction to some foreign shipyard like yantar if they wanted work hours.

Singha
Forum Moderator
Posts: 57981
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: I stood eye to eye with The Beast and he told me everything...

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Singha » 08 Mar 2017 08:03

The talwar class has such a low freeboard the open deck under the helicopter must be awash in high seas.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2531
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karthik S » 08 Mar 2017 08:16

Rakesh wrote:$4bn sanctioned for 4 new Guided Missile Frigates with Brahmos for the Indian Navy
http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=250843


In a report I posted above, 3 of the ships will be made in Goa and 1 in Russia. So three shipyards, Goa, Mumbai and Kolkata will be making frigates.

Cain Marko
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2469
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Cain Marko » 08 Mar 2017 08:28

:shock: 1 billion for a Frigate seems really steep. Russia doing a French move?

Sid
BRFite
Posts: 1465
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 13:26

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Sid » 08 Mar 2017 09:12

But why we are not following up with Shivalik class?

Rakesh
Webmaster BR
Posts: 2850
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 08 Mar 2017 09:22

We are. It is the P-17A Class and construction of the first boat is expected to start in 2017.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project ... ss_frigate

Sid
BRFite
Posts: 1465
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 13:26

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Sid » 08 Mar 2017 09:39

But then why a different type purchase from Russia, when 3 of them are supposed to be built in India. It won't faciliany any speedy induction as well.

Rakesh
Webmaster BR
Posts: 2850
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 08 Mar 2017 09:45

This is not a different type purchase. This is a follow on purchase to the six Krivak IIIs the Indian Navy already has.

vina
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5885
Joined: 11 May 2005 06:56
Location: Doing Nijikaran, Udharikaran and Baazarikaran to Commies and Assorted Leftists

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby vina » 08 Mar 2017 10:56

chetak wrote:twitter


1st image of INS Betwa, sitting on an even keel after being made upright after a major accident during refit at the Naval Dockyards, Mumbai.

Image


The Betwa sure has a guardian angel watching over her. She has been incredibly lucky to fall the way she did and the hull not suffering serious visible damage. Looking at the pictures after she is righted, I suspect the keel slid sideways and the she sort of gently came to rest on her sides. Any slamming of the side plating hard on the keel blocks would have seen her side been pocked with multiple holes. Dunno about internal flooding damage and if any of the heavy equipment inside got ripped off the mountings and moved around. But all in all, she has been very lucky. This could have been a total write off of the hull ( like the Costa Concordia, which grounded on rocks, and was a total hull write off) . Still, a tremendous amount of work to refurbish the entire ship interiors, engines , equipment and put the ship in trials and get it back in to service.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 18759
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 08 Mar 2017 11:23

Karthik S wrote:
Rakesh wrote:$4bn sanctioned for 4 new Guided Missile Frigates with Brahmos for the Indian Navy
http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=250843


In a report I posted above, 3 of the ships will be made in Goa and 1 in Russia. So three shipyards, Goa, Mumbai and Kolkata will be making frigates.


To build 3 frigate at GSL looks like a Political Decision to keep Manohar Parrikar Constituency happy.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2531
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karthik S » 08 Mar 2017 11:30

All our shipyards have big orders, Cochin, Vizag, Mumbai, Kolkata. Also, it's good if engineers in Goa get good experience building advanced warships. I am still wondering why LnT at Kattupalli has not got an order yet. IIRC, it was to be used for submarine construction. But not sure how far plans of 6 SSNs have come.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 18759
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 08 Mar 2017 11:37

ALl our SY always had orders the problem was in execution and time over runs , They ended up delivering frigate/destroyers at 2-3 x times which they agreed originally to and MOD had to revise their cost estimates many times over their original estimate

kit
BRFite
Posts: 1944
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby kit » 08 Mar 2017 11:45

Singha wrote:Another bailout sweetheart deal for our best friends. It never ends.

This when we should have made 2 p17 in goa and licensed 2 p17 construction to some foreign shipyard like yantar if they wanted work hours.


2 made in russia and the rest in india .. shipyards choke full of orders boss !!

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16396
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 08 Mar 2017 12:46

A good decision given the delayed delivery an cost overruns by DPSU yards,already full with orders. These are v.capable ships with a high bang-for-the-buck/size factor.One can visualise even a few more being built by GSL if it delivers the three earmarked for it on time.10+ Talwars will be the real workhorses of the IN along with the P-17/17As.10 of each type plus another 10 Delhi+ DDGs will give us a large number of surface warships to sanitinise the IOR and operate even afar. 10 more P-28s/light frigates will make up a total of 40 major surface combatants,no small number. Now to quickly order the large number of helos which will operate from the light decks of these ships.

"Betty" looks in good shape despite her accident. There seems to be no hull damage on the starb'd side at all. Any port side pcis available at all?

An idea cropped up.We are dreadfully short on MCM vessels. Wih the number of new bases and ports on our seaboard,both east and west,ana ssymetric way to counter the IN's superiority would be to mine the approaches,which the Ghazi tried to do in '71.The PN will play true to form in any future spat with us.Their chief assets are their subs,French Agosta 90Bs with AIP too.These are v.capable boats and with new bases in Gujarat like INS Sardar Patel,Karwar,etc.the IN will be in a quandary as to where we can field our small number of MCM vessels ,even as new ones from SoKo have just been finalised. During the GWars,when the Iranians mined the Gulf,to protect naval assets,merchantmen led the convoys as it was found that they could absorb a mine strike with aplomb! unlike smaller warships. Therefore,if and when the balloon goes up,even after MS sweeping by whatever assets we have,we could have some old rustbuckets at our major ports and bases as "escort leaders",behind which our warships could follow in case we've missed a mine or two!
Last edited by Philip on 08 Mar 2017 19:10, edited 1 time in total.

chola
BRFite
Posts: 947
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chola » 08 Mar 2017 17:38

Austin wrote:ALl our SY always had orders the problem was in execution and time over runs , They ended up delivering frigate/destroyers at 2-3 x times which they agreed originally to and MOD had to revise their cost estimates many times over their original estimate


This is the same everywhere in the world. Look at US, who has more experience managing and building warships and military aircraft than anyone else. Delays and issues galore with the Ford, Littoral Combat Ship, Osprey, F-35, etc. But given time to work out kinks, they will be dominant in their respective classes.

The key is the GOI's commitment to domestic products so that steady contracts and funding keep the yards and lines open and improving.

srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3289
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby srai » 08 Mar 2017 17:53

  • 10? x ASW Corvettes -> 4 P-28 + 6? P-28A
  • 10 x FFG-light -> 3 + 3 + 4 Krivak III
  • 10 x FFG-heavy -> 3 P-17 + 7 P-17A
  • 10 x DDG -> 3 P-15 + 3 P-15A + 4 P-15-B

chola
BRFite
Posts: 947
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chola » 08 Mar 2017 17:55

Make no mistake about this: the IN (and IAF) are DOMINANT in our neighborhood. Don't let dhoti shivering scare us into making these "we need phoren shit now" buying binges again that sap our own industries of funding so we can support those of the gora.

We do NOT live in a formidable or even competent neighborhood. We have a slightly dangerous bloodsucking insect in the form of the TSP but they have no real chance against what we have now. The rest of the local gnats are hardly worth mentioning as military threats.

Even the Lizard is completely outgunned along our border and in the IOR. Geo-politically, they can never put enough assets in our region without endangering the core to the CCP's survival which is their east coast and Taiwan.

So no more building crap elsewhere unless we absolutely have no capacity for that item. Ships we definitely have capacity. As Singha-ji says, we do not need to give the damn russians any more favors.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16396
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 08 Mar 2017 18:15

http://www.firstpost.com/india/decommis ... 19590.html

INS Viraat decommissioned: Indian Navy faces huge gap in its firepower, but future looks hopeful
Aprameya RaoMar, 07 2017
#China#Connectthedots#India#Indian navy#Ins vikramaditya#Ins vikrant#Ins viraat#Russia#Us#Us navy#Uss enterprise

After serving the Indian Navy for three decades, INS Viraat was decommissioned from service on Monday. With the aircraft carrier put into retirement, India now has only one aircraft carrier — INS Vikramaditya.

However, INS Vikramaditya is expected to be out of active service for at least eight months for regular maintenance work, according to a report in The Times of India.

In such a scenario, India effectively is left without an aircraft carrier till INS Vikramaditya is back in action.

Aircraft carriers hold an important place in modern military strategy. These mammoth vessels serve many purposes.

One of them is muscle flexing and intimidating an enemy in deep seas. A notable example of it was witnessed during the 1971 India-Pakistan war when the United States dispatched the USS Enterprise to deter India from attacking East Pakistan.

INS Vikramaditya. PTIFile image of INS Vikramaditya. PTI
Another major benefit these vessels provide navies is the ability to expand the area of operation. Aircraft carriers hold fighter jets which help an navy to mount an air attack anywhere across the world.

Take for example, the US Navy could persist with its air strikes during the 1991 Gulf War through the USS Dwight D Eisenhower and other vessels. The naval help boosted US' land offensive which drove away Iraqi Army from Kuwait.

Indeed, these warships allow countries to turn their navies into a blue-water naval force.

Sameer Patil, director, Centre for International Security at Mumbai-based think-tank Gateway House, sums up the benefits of having such a vessel.

"From the way aircraft carriers are placed in present-day military strategies, it certainly helps countries to project their power," he told Firstpost.

Keeping this in mind, aircraft carriers have become an important benchmark for any aspiring superpower including India.

In fact, India was among the first countries to have an aircraft carrier when it bought HMS Hercules in 1957. Rechristened INS Vikrant, the warship did a yeomen service during the 1971 war when it succeeded in enforcing a naval blockade of East Pakistan.

Later in the 1980s, India added INS Viraat (originally HMS Hermes) to its naval armoury.

Indeed, a country with two maritime borders (East and West coast) needs a minimum of two fully-operational aircraft carriers.

But it is to be noted that these two erstwhile warships were British-built. In an era, when the world is moving towards defence indigenisation, India is also looking at building domestic aircraft carriers.

Media reports suggest that India first indigeniously built carrier, INS Vikrant ( the namesake of India's first aircraft carrier) will be ready by the end of the year before being commissioned into the navy next year. However, a CAG report last year blasted the navy over the delay in building the ship. According to the report, the ship is only expected to be fully operational in 2023.

Apart from INS Vikrant, the navy is also planning for another aircraft carrier INS Vishal, which is still in the design stage and one cannot expect it to be in service before 2025.

The retirement of INS Viraat leaves a major gap in the Indian Navy's firepower. The now decommissioned ship had the capacity of supporting both maritime and land-based operations and conducting anti-submarine warfare. Additionally, it had been armed with Israel's Barak anti-missile system.

INS Vikramaditya, which was commissioned after a two decade delay in 2013, is not yet to battle ready. Though media reports have been suggesting that the navy's lead battleship would be equipped with the latest defence system (Barak 8 missiles), it still seems everything is only on paper as of now.

The issues with the aircraft carriers just does not end there. The MIG 29 K fighter jets for the warships have been under the scanner of the CAG over its various defects. And with the navy rejecting the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas, readiness of the aircraft carriers is doubtful.

Notwithstanding the inordinate delays as well as other pressing issues in India's aircraft carrier saga, Patil is optimistic. He believes that since India had never built an aircraft carrier, it will take some time for her to master it.

"We must appreciate the fact that India is gearing to have the capability to build an aircraft carrier which is in itself a huge thing," he added.

India is not the only country which is in the race to master indigenous aircraft carriers. China, after lagging behind for over three decades, is finally taking steps to become a major naval power. Beijing too is expected to launch its first domestic aircraft carrier this year.

While India has its own blue-water ambitions, China may well be India's rival in the coming years. The Indian Ocean will play an important role in the geo-political game between the two Asian giants and aircraft carriers will certainly help India maintain its pre-eminence here.


2023 is 6 years away! There must be something wrong with this date and it is impossible for the second carrier to enter service in 2025 when even the design hasn't been finalised.

chola
BRFite
Posts: 947
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chola » 08 Mar 2017 18:22

Yes, I am doubtful of Vishal entering service in 2025. But maybe for once we will be surprised.

Maybe we already have a design and building plan through our American friends. Maybe the hype about US cooperation on the carrier is real.

srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3289
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby srai » 08 Mar 2017 18:23

^^^
INS Vikrant, being a new of her class, would require extensive testing/debugging prior to induction. 2023 date for attaining FOC seems plausible.

The IN's "supercarrier" INS Vishal (with nuclear propulsion and EMALS) won't be joining anytime before 2035, not 2025.

INS Vikrant-2, if ordered now, would join the fleet around 2025.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16396
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 08 Mar 2017 18:53

Another v.sad departure soon.It looks like budgetary woes are retiring this great bird,which the Russians are still using to scare the Brits sh*tless even today! We should've tried to keep these birds in service at least for the strat. bombing role like Ru Bears.Their range and payload capacity is unmatched. The IAF also do not have any bomber in service let alone a strat. bomber,a great liability when compared with the Chinese bomber fleet.

Though they're being replaced by the Poseidon P-8Is,which also have a range of only 2000km+,one-third that of the Bear,these cost a whopping $250M+ per unit! The maintenance,modernisation and support costs for TU-142 Bears are far lesser.No doubt that the P-8I is a far more modern bird and also quite capable,but we could've modernised and retained the entire lot of 8 for the cost of just one P-8I. Plus the ":deadly" Harpoon missiles are quite inferior to BMos and other Ru LRCMs,also used by the Pakis for decades!

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 519906.cms
After Viraat, Navy to bid adieu to Albatross patrol aircraft

Rajat Pandit | TNN | Updated: Mar 7, 2017, 08.14 PM IST
HIGHLIGHTS
Soviet-origin Tupolev-142M aircraft will be decommissioned later this month
The TU-142Ms are being replaced by the 12 Poseidon-8I long-range patrol aircraft
P 8Is armed with deadly Harpoon Block-II missiles, MK-54 lightweight torpedoes

NEW DELHI: Another iconic naval platform is now set for retirement after aircraft carrier INS Viraat. The Soviet-origin Tupolev-142M aircraft, which helped the force keep a hawk-eye on enemy warships and submarines in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR) for almost 30 years, will be decommissioned later this month.
The world's largest and fastest turboprop aircraft, aptly named the 'Albatross,' the Navy had inducted eight TU-142Ms since 1988. "They were the backbone of our long-range maritime reconnaissance (LRMR) and anti-submarine warfare operations. But only three are fully operational now. They will now be retired at the naval air station INS Rajali in Arakkonam in Tamil Nadu at a ceremony on March 29," said an officer.
The TU-142Ms are being replaced by the 12 Poseidon-8I long-range patrol aircraft- eight have already been inducted- acquired from the US for $3.2 billion. Packed with radars and armed with deadly Harpoon Block-II missiles, MK-54 lightweight torpedoes, rockets and depth charges to destroy enemy submarines, the Navy also operates the P-8Is from INS Rajali.
The fuel-guzzling TU-142M aircraft were the first true LRMR of the Indian Navy. With a 50-metre wing-span and a combat radius of 6,500-km, the TU-142M has a speed of around 850 kmph. "They also have the highest flying altitude among turboprops, with an operational ceiling of over 13,000 metre," said an officer.
With a 10-member crew, the TU-142Ms can also carry at least five torpedoes as well as free-fall bombs and depth charges. "But the sensors and weapon systems of TU-142Ms have become outdated with age, apart from requiring heavy maintenance and costly spare parts," said an officer.
"If the TU-142Ms were hawk-eyes, the P-8Is are far more potent intelligent hawk-eyes," he added. This comes in the backdrop of Chinese submarines, both conventional as well as nuclear, making forays into the IOR on a regular basis now, with an operational turnaround at Karachi, as was earlier reported by TOI..

Much like the TU-142Ms earlier, the P-8Is now work in conjunction with medium-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft like the IL-38s and Israeli Searcher-II and Heron UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles) to establish a three-tier surveillance grid in IOR.
Apart from the need to take care of its primary area of strategic interest stretching from Persian Gulf to Malacca Strait, India also has a vast 5,422-km coastline, 1,197 islands and 2.01 million sq km of Exclusive Economic Zone to guard against all threats.

Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10128
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Gagan » 08 Mar 2017 19:11

Vina ji
These pics of INS Betwa only show the starboard side.
The port side was the one which bore the brunt of the fall, and IN has not released any pictures of that side.
The mast was damaged and part of it has been removed.

The IN statement that she will rejoin the fleet must have come after detailed damage assessment, and so that is good news.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16396
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 08 Mar 2017 19:12

I have a naughty thought that the reason why GSL was chosen over other shipyards is because Goa is a favourite haunt of Russian nationals! There would be a large contingent of Russian technical support while the FFGs are being built and for them,it would be working in a holiday environment. Goa,is afar better destination than Cal/Kol whatever!

Cain Marko
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2469
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Cain Marko » 08 Mar 2017 20:20

Philip wrote:Another v.sad departure soon.It looks like budgetary woes are retiring this great bird,which the Russians are still using to scare the Brits sh*tless even today! We should've tried to keep these birds in service at least for the strat. bombing role like Ru Bears.Their range and payload capacity is unmatched. The IAF also do not have any bomber in service let alone a strat. bomber,a great liability when compared with the Chinese bomber fleet.

Though they're being replaced by the Poseidon P-8Is,which also have a range of only 2000km+,one-third that of the Bear,these cost a whopping $250M+ per unit! The maintenance,modernisation and support costs for TU-142 Bears are far lesser.No doubt that the P-8I is a far more modern bird and also quite capable,but we could've modernised and retained the entire lot of 8 for the cost of just one P-8I. Plus the ":deadly" Harpoon missiles are quite inferior to BMos and other Ru LRCMs,also used by the Pakis for decades!

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 519906.cms
After Viraat, Navy to bid adieu to Albatross patrol aircraft

Rajat Pandit | TNN | Updated: Mar 7, 2017, 08.14 PM IST
HIGHLIGHTS
Soviet-origin Tupolev-142M aircraft will be decommissioned later this month
The TU-142Ms are being replaced by the 12 Poseidon-8I long-range patrol aircraft
P 8Is armed with deadly Harpoon Block-II missiles, MK-54 lightweight torpedoes

NEW DELHI: Another iconic naval platform is now set for retirement after aircraft carrier INS Viraat. The Soviet-origin Tupolev-142M aircraft, which helped the force keep a hawk-eye on enemy warships and submarines in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR) for almost 30 years, will be decommissioned later this month.
The world's largest and fastest turboprop aircraft, aptly named the 'Albatross,' the Navy had inducted eight TU-142Ms since 1988. "They were the backbone of our long-range maritime reconnaissance (LRMR) and anti-submarine warfare operations. But only three are fully operational now. They will now be retired at the naval air station INS Rajali in Arakkonam in Tamil Nadu at a ceremony on March 29," said an officer.
The TU-142Ms are being replaced by the 12 Poseidon-8I long-range patrol aircraft- eight have already been inducted- acquired from the US for $3.2 billion. Packed with radars and armed with deadly Harpoon Block-II missiles, MK-54 lightweight torpedoes, rockets and depth charges to destroy enemy submarines, the Navy also operates the P-8Is from INS Rajali.
The fuel-guzzling TU-142M aircraft were the first true LRMR of the Indian Navy. With a 50-metre wing-span and a combat radius of 6,500-km, the TU-142M has a speed of around 850 kmph. "They also have the highest flying altitude among turboprops, with an operational ceiling of over 13,000 metre," said an officer.
With a 10-member crew, the TU-142Ms can also carry at least five torpedoes as well as free-fall bombs and depth charges. "But the sensors and weapon systems of TU-142Ms have become outdated with age, apart from requiring heavy maintenance and costly spare parts," said an officer.
"If the TU-142Ms were hawk-eyes, the P-8Is are far more potent intelligent hawk-eyes," he added. This comes in the backdrop of Chinese submarines, both conventional as well as nuclear, making forays into the IOR on a regular basis now, with an operational turnaround at Karachi, as was earlier reported by TOI..

Much like the TU-142Ms earlier, the P-8Is now work in conjunction with medium-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft like the IL-38s and Israeli Searcher-II and Heron UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles) to establish a three-tier surveillance grid in IOR.
Apart from the need to take care of its primary area of strategic interest stretching from Persian Gulf to Malacca Strait, India also has a vast 5,422-km coastline, 1,197 islands and 2.01 million sq km of Exclusive Economic Zone to guard against all threats.


This is indeed not very good news. They need more MPAs, not less to counter all the subs lurking around IOR anymore. What happened to the second mmpa tender. Buy more p8s, there should be a fleet of some 24 medium long ranged birds

tsarkar
BRFite
Posts: 1973
Joined: 08 May 2006 13:44
Location: mumbai

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby tsarkar » 08 Mar 2017 21:18

Gagan wrote:Vina ji
These pics of INS Betwa only show the starboard side.
The port side was the one which bore the brunt of the fall, and IN has not released any pictures of that side.
The mast was damaged and part of it has been removed.

The IN statement that she will rejoin the fleet must have come after detailed damage assessment, and so that is good news.


Port side photos are just two pages back. The Helicopter Hanger and Bridge Wings are the most extended part on both sides (to give Captain / Navigator on bridge clear view of aft & sides during close inshore manoeuvring).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridge_wing

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Gall ... a.jpg.html

1. The port helicopter hanger and bridge wing of INS Betwa is intact in the below photos.

2. Even the flare of the bow on port is barely buckled.

3. Bridge Windows on Port are intact as well. They're designed to take battering of heavy seas.

4. There is an intact navigation radar above the bridge at port

Science & Engineering does not rely on miracles, it's just the structural integrity of the ship.

Having said that, the helicopter deck is very slightly buckled over the sonar winch, but replacing it is relatively cheap & easy. Even ONGC tugs and some residential complexes in Bombay have helipads these days (the latter being silly fads).

Nick_S wrote:Image

Image

hnair
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3286
Joined: 03 May 2006 01:31
Location: India/US

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby hnair » 08 Mar 2017 21:59

tsarkar wrote: Even ONGC tugs and some residential complexes in Bombay have helipads these days (the latter being silly fads).


OT: these are not fads, but based on building regulations. It is mandated by Indian Building Code that a building over 60 meters need to have a pad for heli-evacuation during fires and other calamities. It sort of makes sense in denser Indian urban areas, where turntable ladder type firetrucks wont reach easily or on time to evacuate. While a copter rescue is far-fetched with current meager resources for most cities, apparently the thought behind is that at some point in the life of the building, there will be available rescue helicopters and you cannot retrofit a platform at that time


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: anupamd, shivatar, vera_k, Zynda and 24 guests