Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

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srai
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby srai » 10 Mar 2018 02:31

^^^
As if the so called “roll over fund” is so much as to cover all the capital acquisitions. There is only so much defense budget and a huge percentage of it goes into the revenue side of things (i.e. payrolls & pensions).

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Katare » 10 Mar 2018 03:24

Cybaru wrote:
Singha wrote:EMB145 is listed as 2800km range presumably with passengers and luggage....
it is probably capable of doing 3 hrs missions on station with some reserve time 30mins to fly to and from base.

ideally we need a platform with 8-10 hr flying time.

the G550 aew of israel claims to fly 19pax for 12 hrs. this will no doubt be less with the mission eqpt weight now. perhaps 6 hrs....

lack of endurance and need for refuelers might be why iaf is shying away from EMB145 to a higher loiter platform.

Embraer does have a range of bigger a/c but if one has to go big, perhaps A330 type with its vast range and fuel is best.


EMB145 in AEW config has a 8-9 hour flying time. I posted a link long time back. I can find it again.


They would have a lot more fuel than civilian versions since there are no passengers luggage. Also they are equipped with air to air refueling capability that can extend their endurance. Unfortunately we do not have enough tanker......

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Eric Leiderman » 10 Mar 2018 11:14

There was talk of using 2nd had aircraft with low hours , these were to be modified to air tankers, I havent heard anything after the initial news a few months back, If numbers are the requirement, this option holds most bang for buck

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 10 Mar 2018 13:18

...and most bung for the back in converting them! :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Eric Leiderman » 11 Mar 2018 01:04

Philip wrote:...and most bung for the back in converting them! :rotfl:


Not necessarily
If the OEM eg airbus or booing were to do the retrofit, with a fixed price contract, and specified criteria, It would be worth a cost analysis
this could also be a made in India project with required political spin.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Cybaru » 12 Mar 2018 11:57

Singha wrote:EMB145 is listed as 2800km range presumably with passengers and luggage....
it is probably capable of doing 3 hrs missions on station with some reserve time 30mins to fly to and from base.

ideally we need a platform with 8-10 hr flying time.

the G550 aew of israel claims to fly 19pax for 12 hrs. this will no doubt be less with the mission eqpt weight now. perhaps 6 hrs....

lack of endurance and need for refuelers might be why iaf is shying away from EMB145 to a higher loiter platform.

Embraer does have a range of bigger a/c but if one has to go big, perhaps A330 type with its vast range and fuel is best.


Here is one reference, I can try and find my old post and see if I had other references.

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military ... emb145.htm

"The EMB-145 AEW&C incorporates a reinforced airframe, new navigation and communication systems, an enhanced APU, increased fuel capacity and revised interior layout. The endurance in typical missions in the Amazon shall be in excess of 8 hours."

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby putnanja » 13 Mar 2018 21:34

C17s from IAF land at Tuting ALG in Arunachal Pradesh for 1st time

From Anantha Krishnan's @writetake twitter feed

Anantha Krishnan M ✈


@writetake
2m2 minutes ago

More pix of C 17 Globemaster of #IAF carrying out a historic landing at Tuting advanced landing ground amidst the hills of Arunachal Pradesh today.
Photos: IAF


Image

Image

Image

Image



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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Vips » 13 Mar 2018 22:37

Now start using those to carry T72/90's and Bofors/ATAGS to the border and see how reasonable the chinese suddenly become.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Kersi » 13 Mar 2018 23:44

Vips wrote:Now start using those to carry T72/90's and Bofors/ATAGS to the border and see how reasonable the chinese suddenly become.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 14 Mar 2018 03:57

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/973586672888827904 ---> Video of C-17 Globemaster of #IAF carrying out a historic landing at Tuting advanced landing ground amidst the hills of Arunachal Pradesh today. The crew included Group Captain K Rama Rao, Wing Commander Amiya Kant Patnaik, Wing Commander K Trivedi and Sqn Ldr L Nayak.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 14 Mar 2018 12:59

A combo of heavylifters supported by MI-26s at the ALGs will enable the heaviest of eqpt.,MBTs,arty,eng. eqpt.,etc.,apart from troops and supplies,to to reach the most sensitive and inaccessible areas of the LAC .The creation and use of of new ALGs,etc.,not just those built by the British during WW2,is an essential for us to keep our troops fighting fit and supplied with enough ammo,etc .for the long haul.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby AdityaM » 17 Mar 2018 20:43

Is this the reason Mig21 crash so much?
Is it acceptable to have a plane surface like this. Check the panel gap and metal surface bend on extreme left near the screw.

Image


https://twitter.com/ChethanKumarTOI/sta ... 93920?s=20

Fg Offr Bhawana Kanth became the 2nd IAF woman pilot to fly solo in a fighter aircraft. She flew a MiG 21 Bison for 30 mins from Ambala Air Force Station at around 2pm on Saturday. The first woman pilot of IAF to go solo was Fg Offr Avani Chaturvedi.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Indranil » 17 Mar 2018 22:41

No aircraft crashes because surface blemishes. But yeah the Mi21s are showing their age.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby sudeepj » 17 Mar 2018 23:28

What are you talking about? This is great Soviet engineering.. We will just build a hundred of these and take on anyone we want.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Indranil » 18 Mar 2018 06:57

I know MiG 21s don’t belong to the 2020s. But we are speaking of a legend here. There is nothing on that airframe which offers any kind of resistance. There is nothing on that plane which cannot be patched.

That we could not replace them in time is our fault. We can’t blame a fifty year old plane, why are you old?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shiv » 18 Mar 2018 07:24

AdityaM wrote:Is this the reason Mig21 crash so much?
Is it acceptable to have a plane surface like this. Check the panel gap and metal surface bend on extreme left near the screw.

You have been on BRF so long. Don't you actually read any posts? There have been hundreds of posts about why MiG 21s have crashed and this is a question that you should be able to go without asking, unless it was meant to be an intelligent twisted way of pointing out dents and scratches.

One of the things that has puzzled, no, scratch that, irritated me, on BRF is the assumption that the air force does not value life like we do and they would willy-nilly send someone up in a plane that has reasons to crash that are visible to the casual observer looking at a photo on his favourite small screen. Or that we are somehow so damn clever at picking up faults that none of the dozens who work on an aircraft would know. Or care. Since we are always ahead of curve - all we need to do is to wait for the next accident and then say "I had predicted that by pointing out all the defects but I was mocked"

Typically what causes a crash is something no one can see or pick up. Let me link something that tells you why:
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc ... source=twb
For recruits encountering the freshly empty bunk beds of dead airmen, morale was sapped before they could even get in the cockpit. Hoping to slow this attrition, Allied officers studied the pattern of bullet holes in returning aircraft for vulnerable parts to reinforce with armor.

It was natural to think that the bombers needed more armor where (it appeared) they were taking the most bullets. But the Hungarian-born mathematician Abraham Wald, and his colleagues at the Statistical Research Group at Columbia University, had a novel, if counterintuitive, prescription. Don’t protect the planes where they were taking the most damage, Wald said. Armor the planes where there were no bullet holes at all.

“You put armor where there are no holes, because the planes that got shot there didn’t return to the home base,” says Anders Sandberg, a senior research fellow at University of Oxford’s Future of Humanity Institute. “They crashed.”

The holes didn’t show where returning planes were likely to get hit, but only what it was possible for later observers to see. This is known as an observer selection effect...

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 18 Mar 2018 09:18

Any idea what is that pressurised & unpressurised written near the cockpit ? Has it something to do to open the cockpit when it is jammed and cannot be opened by the pilot ? Thanks

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby AdityaM » 18 Mar 2018 12:26

shiv wrote:
AdityaM wrote:Is this the reason Mig21 crash so much?
Is it acceptable to have a plane surface like this. Check the panel gap and metal surface bend on extreme left near the screw.

You have been on BRF so long. Don't you actually read any posts? There have been hundreds of posts about why MiG 21s have crashed and this is a question that you should be able to go without asking, unless it was meant to be an intelligent twisted way of pointing out dents and scratches.

One of the things that has puzzled, no, scratch that, irritated me, on BRF is the assumption that the air force does not value life like we do and they would willy-nilly send someone up in a plane that has reasons to crash that are visible to the casual observer looking at a photo on his favourite small screen. Or that we are somehow so damn clever at picking up faults that none of the dozens who work on an aircraft would know. Or care. Since we are always ahead of curve - all we need to do is to wait for the next accident and then say "I had predicted that by pointing out all the defects but I was mocked"


Shiv I have been here long enough to know that you have a habit to flame-bait and be angry. I agree that I am unintelligent compared to your high standards.

Can the following scenario happen:

- at very high speed, the visible gap in the panel and the slight bend in the surface cause air pressure changes/air vortex that can over time tear/pluck open the panel, despite the tight screw
- At high speeds can air enter the cavity under the panel gaps and cause damage by increasing pressure from inside the panel and cause the metal around the screws to suffer any fatigue damage?
- the sealant beading around the cockpit glass is badly compromised and broken badly. Cant it further disintegrate at high speeds.

I am sure the aircraft is airworthy and hence cleared for flying. But can the above and worse not happen?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Zynda » 18 Mar 2018 13:26

It is possible that IAF has ordered a replacement panel and inspect the MiG-21 for airworthiness and keep it flying until the replacement panel arrives. We don't know the context...

Or perhaps it was decided the issue is not critical enough and the panel would be replaced during the next B/C Check and the current condition won't affect the safety of the aircraft.

Most of the times, failures are captured in terms of probabilities and there always exist a small chance that worst could happen. Ideally, you would want to be the on the safer side & control variables which would put you on the right side; in the case of the above, use a panel which is not crooked but like I mentioned above, it is quite possible it was determined safe.

I think we should have trust in IAF about not putting pilot's lives in jeopardy unnecessarily.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shaun » 18 Mar 2018 13:42

We had MOFTU !!!

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby AdityaM » 18 Mar 2018 16:05

AdityaM wrote:
Can the following scenario happen:

- at very high speed, the visible gap in the panel and the slight bend in the surface cause air pressure changes/air vortex that can over time tear/pluck open the panel, despite the tight screw
- At high speeds can air enter the cavity under the panel gaps and cause damage by increasing pressure from inside the panel and cause the metal around the screws to suffer any fatigue damage?
- the sealant beading around the cockpit glass is badly compromised and broken badly. Cant it further disintegrate at high speeds.

I am sure the aircraft is airworthy and hence cleared for flying. But can the above and worse not happen?


https://twitter.com/livefist/status/975 ... 10209?s=21

Image

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 18 Mar 2018 16:11

shaun wrote:We had MOFTU !!!


?? Had ? Is it demobbed now ?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby SaiK » 18 Mar 2018 16:38

Maiden solo sortie by IAF first woman combat pilot

http://www.tribuneindia.com/mobi/news/n ... 59513.html

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 18 Mar 2018 16:59

Shows how tough Ru/Sov. aircraft are and in all likelihood that MIG was built at HAL which built we're told over a thousand! They've served for over half a century in large qty. in many air forces.How many western fighters have done so similarly?
In wartime, aircraft have flown with considerable battle damage with minimum patching up too.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shaun » 18 Mar 2018 18:27

Akshay Kapoor wrote:
shaun wrote:We had MOFTU !!!


?? Had ? Is it demobbed now ?
it was based in Tejpur but both alpha and bravo got relocated and now I have no idea whether they exist after Mig21FL were retired. these birds were our trainer a/c with horrific crash record in the absence of AJT and while trainers and rookies lost their life , we slogged on them for decades .

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 18 Mar 2018 19:45

The below twitter account belongs to Air Vice Marshal Manmohan Bahadur (retd), IAF.

https://twitter.com/BahadurManmohan/sta ... 0523436033 ---> No doubt aircraft are old - but any machine cleared to get airborne is ALWAYS FLYING FIT, else not cleared for flying - rest assured on that. Normal for skin to get discoloured and panels are well secured.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby vasu raya » 18 Mar 2018 20:07

if PR is involved the aircraft choice could be better within the existing Mig-21s, the Sarang team has a different paint scheme ...

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby AdityaM » 18 Mar 2018 21:19

Twitter account : @Chopsyturvey belongs to Air Marshal Anil Chopra
https://twitter.com/Chopsyturvey/status ... 4977317889

as per him:
In 2001. I was the Team Leader for the upgrade in Russia


perhaps folks here can ask insightful questions to him

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Bob V » 19 Mar 2018 01:58

AdityaM wrote:........
- at very high speed, the visible gap in the panel and the slight bend in the surface cause air pressure changes/air vortex that can over time tear/pluck open the panel, despite the tight screw
- At high speeds can air enter the cavity under the panel gaps and cause damage by increasing pressure from inside the panel and cause the metal around the screws to suffer any fatigue damage?
........
I am sure the aircraft is airworthy and hence cleared for flying. But can the above and worse not happen?


Since you have been around here long enough, I suggest looking up a bit on the difference between a Philips screw & an aviation standard screw. Happy reading!

Oh wait, I'll give you a small clue - "Wirelock"

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Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Peregrine » 19 Mar 2018 03:22

X Posted on the Corresponding Indian Navy and Indian Army Threads

Govt moves on integrated theatre commands; amends rules to bring three forces under single leadership

NEW DELHI: India has finally taken the first step towards eventually having integrated theatre commands, where all the manpower and assets of the Army, Navy and IAF are under the operational control of a single three-star general, by amending command and control rules for joint organisations and establishments.

Sources said the government has notified new “statutory rules and orders” to ensure an officer from any one service can now “exercise direct command” over personnel from the other two services, who are all governed by different acts and rules, in tri-service organisations.

The move has been implemented especially for the strategically-located Andaman and Nicobar Command (ANC), which was established as India’s first theatre command in October 2001 but has largely failed to achieve its potential due to internecine turf wars among the three services, general politico-bureaucratic apathy, fund crunches and environmental concerns.

“It might seem a minor structural reform but represents a huge cultural, fundamental shift in the Indian military system, where the three services often pull in different directions. If the country is to have a chief of defence staff (CDS) and theatre commands in the years ahead, this tweaking of the Army, Navy and IAF rules is the first step towards it,” said a top source.

The naval commander-in-chief of the ANC can now directly control and discipline Army and IAF officers and other personnel under him, even as similar moves are afoot to eventually bring all land and assets under him in the archipelago. “It will serve as the template for theatre commands in the future.

Moreover, we need a fully unified approach in ANC due to the expanding Chinese threat in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR),” he added.

The NDA government had initially shown some drive for meaningful reforms in the country’s higher defence establishment in the shape of creating a CDS post and theatre commands to ensure much-needed synergy in training, logistics, planning, procurements and operations among the 1.5-million strong armed forces.

There was, for instance, even a proposal to create integrated theatre commands in the shape of one or two (one each for west and east of Nepal) for the northern border with China, a western command for Pakistan, a counterinsurgency operations command and one or two peninsular commands for the maritime borders.

But nothing concrete has come out of it. The armed forces currently have 17 single-service commands, with only two unified commands in ANC and the Strategic Forces Command to handle the country’s nuclear arsenal.

China, meanwhile, has reorganised its 2.3-million People’s Liberation Army into five theatre commands to crank up its offensive capabilities as well as establish better command-and-control structures.

Its western theatre command now handles the entire Line of Actual Control with India instead of the earlier Chengdu Military Region in the east and the Lanzhou Military Region towards the north, as was reported by TOI.

Cheers Image

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Avtar Singh » 19 Mar 2018 05:31

Mig21s crashed so much, BECAUSE THEY ARE BLOODY DIFFICULT TO HANDLE/FLY

and I believe the IAF would send there pilots to Mig21 from intermediate jet training?
that is a tall order!! hard enough to handle such an aircraft out of advanced jet training

couple the difficulties of flying such a difficult machine with an antiquated 1950s cockpit

the starfighter was not known as a "widow maker" without reason
I imagine the mig21 is not too wide of that mark

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Khalsa » 19 Mar 2018 08:19

On the matter of the awesome officer becoming the second woman IAF to fly solo and her machine and the panel and the pain.

No inspection ready unit ever passed combat
No combat ready unit ever passed inspection

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 21 Mar 2018 11:29

IAF says it can tackle Chinese J-20 stealth jets with S-400 missile systems

China’s ministry of national defense announced last month that the People’s Liberation Army Air Force was in the process of inducting J-20 stealth fighters. India’s plans to build a fifth-generation fighter aircraft, however, remain on the drawing board
China’s new J-20 fighter jet is not stealthy enough and the Indian Air Force (IAF) has the capability to tackle the threat posed by it, said a senior air force officer familiar with Beijing’s military modernisation plans.

“With the S-400 Triumf air defence missile systems being bought from Russia and our existing medium-range surface -to- air missile systems, we are quite capable of shooting down the J-20,” the officer said and added that the J-20 was not a true fifth-generation fighter as “neither is the aircraft’s design stealthy, nor can it supercruise with the existing WS-10 engines”.

Supercruise is a mode of flight that makes detection harder as it allows stealth fighters to fly at supersonic speeds in combat configuration without kicking in fuel-guzzling afterburners.

China’s ministry of national defense announced last month that the People’s Liberation Army Air Force was in the process of inducting J-20 stealth fighters. India’s plans to build a fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA), however, remain on the drawing board.

“I will go with the IAF’s assessment that India can tackle the J-20 threat,” said Air Marshal KK Nohwar (retd), additional director general of the Delhi-based Centre for Air Power Studies and a former IAF vice chief.

As reported by HT on March 17, a multi-billion dollar programme to produce a stealth fighter with Russia is in peril, with the IAF voicing its reservations as it believes the platform lacks the desired stealth characteristics and is inferior to the US-made F-35 and F-22 jets.

India is in talks with Russia to buy five advanced S-400 missile systems, capable of destroying jets, missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) at a range of 400km, in an almost Rs 39,000-crore deal.

Discussions on the proposed deal are likely to take place during defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman’s visit to Russia in April. “Cost is the biggest worry... We will be posing some questions to the Russians on the S-400,” a defence ministry official said on the condition of anonymity. “It’s an expensive platform but packs a tremendous punch,” said another IAF officer tracking the air force’s modernisation.

At present, the central government is finding it hard to reconcile two contrary points of view on FGFA . While the IAF wants the project abandoned, a high-powered panel appointed by the defence ministry to examine different aspects of the FGFA , recommended in its report last year that India should go ahead with the programme.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shiv » 21 Mar 2018 11:45

Avtar Singh wrote:Mig21s crashed so much, BECAUSE THEY ARE BLOODY DIFFICULT TO HANDLE/FLY

and I believe the IAF would send there pilots to Mig21 from intermediate jet training?
that is a tall order!! hard enough to handle such an aircraft out of advanced jet training

couple the difficulties of flying such a difficult machine with an antiquated 1950s cockpit

the starfighter was not known as a "widow maker" without reason
I imagine the mig21 is not too wide of that mark

There is curious problem here. All critics of the MiG 21 have never actually flown one. No person who has flown the MiG 21 says this. And this is on record from very senior officers including Tipnis, Mally Wollen, Dhanoa and many less high ranking IAF pilots. I think those of us who have not flown the MiG 21 need to acknowledge that there is something in that machine that pilots like.

The downside of criticism+ignorance is that it implies that those who actually fly it are suicidal or insane and those who send pilots up in it are heartless murderers. I personally believe it is better to check our tongues before shooting one's mouth off on this issue, unless the statements can be backed by people who have flown the MiG 21 in the IAF

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shiv » 21 Mar 2018 14:21

http://www.delhidefencereview.com/2018/ ... ars-ahead/
ISR assets, yes, because intelligence is the name of the game, but precision weapons are very expensive, and the question is, how many do we require? I’m sure the Air Force does these sums on a daily basis, and they will know how many we can get, and how we will utilize the ones we have. ISR definitely. Because the better the intelligence, the better it is for us to know as to what to target and how to target it. Just remember, it is not always a case of- ‘you have seen a target somewhere and you go and attack it’. Some planning is required. Direction, movement, intelligence here and there as to how many more aircraft do you need in support sequences, how many weapons you require, what is the accuracy that you need etc. Under certain circumstances, the use of less expensive ‘dumb’ bombs, also has a certain value. They make a lot of noise and frighten a lot of people and they also do damage and destruction. So, yes, precision weapons are good, we need them, because, precision weapons, particularly of the variety that we can launch from standoff ranges, meaning that we are outside the lethal envelope of the air defences of an adversary, keeps us safe at that time. So from that point of view they are very good, we should have them, but we have to marry requirements and costs.


Sharma: Where do you see the Indian Air Force heading in 10 years time?
AM Patney: I think there would be impressive improvement, both in terms of equipment, and how to utilize the equipment optimally. I say this with confidence, because if you take a look at the history of our air power evolution, every decade has shown a much better capability. Today, I can say with some confidence, that our strength in terms of squadrons may have reduced, but we have never been as powerful as we are today. Even with the reduced strength, our capability is high. Does that mean that we can do with even less? NO. We will need that much more, because all the other countries are also gaining in their strength, and this will always remain a relative system. So we can’t rest on our laurels and say- because we are okay today, we will be okay for the next two years. That is wrong. Progression and progressive improvement in capability is an ongoing phenomena and we must follow it.


Read it all at the link

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 21 Mar 2018 14:31

shiv wrote:
Avtar Singh wrote:Mig21s crashed so much, BECAUSE THEY ARE BLOODY DIFFICULT TO HANDLE/FLY

and I believe the IAF would send there pilots to Mig21 from intermediate jet training?
that is a tall order!! hard enough to handle such an aircraft out of advanced jet training

couple the difficulties of flying such a difficult machine with an antiquated 1950s cockpit

the starfighter was not known as a "widow maker" without reason
I imagine the mig21 is not too wide of that mark

There is curious problem here. All critics of the MiG 21 have never actually flown one. No person who has flown the MiG 21 says this. And this is on record from very senior officers including Tipnis, Mally Wollen, Dhanoa and many less high ranking IAF pilots. I think those of us who have not flown the MiG 21 need to acknowledge that there is something in that machine that pilots like.

The downside of criticism+ignorance is that it implies that those who actually fly it are suicidal or insane and those who send pilots up in it are heartless murderers. I personally believe it is better to check our tongues before shooting one's mouth off on this issue, unless the statements can be backed by people who have flown the MiG 21 in the IAF


This is the general BRF style of some posters - take 2 mins to write some nonsense and then if challenged throw a fit. We don’t penalise these things enough. The Newbie corner is there for a reason. That’s how trainees are brought up to a standard. That’s why training is such an important part of the armed forces or indeed any profession.

It’s up to all of us to improve standards. You are doing a great job of that and my personal thanks and also on behalf of the entire moderator community.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 21 Mar 2018 14:33

Avtar Singh wrote:Mig21s crashed so much, BECAUSE THEY ARE BLOODY DIFFICULT TO HANDLE/FLY

and I believe the IAF would send there pilots to Mig21 from intermediate jet training?
that is a tall order!! hard enough to handle such an aircraft out of advanced jet training

couple the difficulties of flying such a difficult machine with an antiquated 1950s cockpit

the starfighter was not known as a "widow maker" without reason
I imagine the mig21 is not too wide of that mark


Pls don’t post unaldertated nonsense. You should post in the newbie corner first and then when you reach a standard you can post on other threads. The newbie thread is there for a reason - to train trainees and bring them up to a standard.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby jaysimha » 21 Mar 2018 16:44

President's Secretariat
President of India to present standard to the 51 squadron and colours to the 230 signal unit of the Indian Air Force tomorrow
Posted On: 21 MAR 2018 4:32PM by PIB Delhi
The President of India, Shri Ram Nath Kovind, will visit Punjab (Halwara) tomorrow (March 22, 2018) topresent the Standard to the 51 Squadron and Colours to the 230 Signal Unit of the Indian Air Force.

***

AKT/SH/SK



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Lalmohan
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Lalmohan » 21 Mar 2018 16:48

shiv - from what I have read elsewhere about mig21 handling:

it has fantastic acceleration, agility and raw dogfighting ability coupled with high speed sprinting to and from targets, tight turning circles, etc. which make it a phenomenal - small and agile fighting platform: this is why pilots love it, pity about the short range and until recently not much BVR capability

the delta wing however also makes it high drag in a turn - which has disadvantages in terms of manouvering AND makes for high speed landings - which are tricky to manage; this is where the criticisms come from - and to be honest, a high speed landing is always dangerous

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby prashantsharma » 21 Mar 2018 18:59

Lalmohan wrote:shiv - from what I have read elsewhere about mig21 handling:

it has fantastic acceleration, agility and raw dogfighting ability coupled with high speed sprinting to and from targets, tight turning circles, etc. which make it a phenomenal - small and agile fighting platform: this is why pilots love it, pity about the short range and until recently not much BVR capability

the delta wing however also makes it high drag in a turn - which has disadvantages in terms of manouvering AND makes for high speed landings - which are tricky to manage; this is where the criticisms come from - and to be honest, a high speed landing is always dangerous



I dont recollect any crash of a mig-21 being attributed to its "high landing speed"


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