Bharat Rakshak Forum Announcement

Hello Everyone,

A warm welcome back to the Bharat Rakshak Forum.

Important Notice: Due to a corruption in the BR forum database we regret to announce that data records relating to some of our registered users have been lost. We estimate approx. 500 user details are deleted.

To ease the process of recreating the user IDs we request members that have previously posted on the BR forums to recognise and identify their posts, once the posts are identified please contact the BRF moderator team by emailing BRF Mod Team with your post details.

The mod team will be able to update your username, email etc. so that the user history can be maintained.

Unfortunately for members that have never posted or have had all their posts deleted i.e. users that have 0 posts, we will be unable to recreate your account hence we request that you re-register again.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your understanding.

Regards,
Seetal

Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 49325
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 16 Apr 2018 08:22

ACM Dhanoa has been clear. This is to proof the 2 front war. Yes 3 sorties per day per plane. 1100 aircraft of all types and all bases.

Shiv Do you recall reading about the combine RAF, USAF, & IAF exercise in mid 1960s.?

shaun
BRFite
Posts: 918
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shaun » 16 Apr 2018 08:27


shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34919
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shiv » 16 Apr 2018 08:44

ramana - no I can't recall reading about that.

srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4072
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby srai » 16 Apr 2018 08:49

Manish Jain wrote:It's 10k sorties. There was no typo.

http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=547597

"Almost every combat aircraft of the force carried out six sorties on three consecutive days to demonstrate that we are capable of undertaking high tempo operations with the fleet available to us, and the shortage of combat planes does not have any impact on our capability to handle both war fronts," government sources told Mail Today.

Gagan Shakti ex was a mass mobilization of the IAF. Reading the above (bolded), over three days almost every combat aircraft flew 6 times total. That would mean around 4200 sorties (700 x 6) for combat fleet. Rest would have been transport and other auxiliary fleet.

ArjunPandit
BRFite
Posts: 1008
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 16 Apr 2018 08:50

Another perspective of 10000 sorties in 3 days is what it Pakistan actually fights alone and no two front war. They'll be truly be back to stone age

Thakur_B
BRFite
Posts: 1164
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Thakur_B » 16 Apr 2018 09:37

^^ Couple that with Artillery Barrages, prithvi/Brahmos/nirbhay salvos as door kickers for armoured thrust to cut off PoK from poonjab.

vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 661
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby vsunder » 16 Apr 2018 09:39

ramana wrote:ACM Dhanoa has been clear. This is to proof the 2 front war. Yes 3 sorties per day per plane. 1100 aircraft of all types and all bases.

Shiv Do you recall reading about the combine RAF, USAF, & IAF exercise in mid 1960s.?


Yes Ramana I recall it very well. In fact there was a write up about it on our BR archives by one of the Anglo ex IAF types who migrated to Canada or UK. It was just after 1962, was supposed to give a lal batti to China. RAF types thought they could run circles around the IAF and were mistaken. Lot of the operations were over the Bay of Bengal. I will take a guess CHL Digby, but I could be wrong. The archives are now so weirdly organized I seem not to find anything.
Even some IAF pilots went to Nellis, Nevada for training in that period. Their experiences with pictures was the subject of an article in the Archives. AVM Philip Rajkumar and Des Peters are the names I remember of that Nellis group. Two groups went and then the program ended.

jaysimha
BRFite
Posts: 376
Joined: 20 Dec 2017 14:30

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby jaysimha » 16 Apr 2018 15:39

PIB Gaganshakti - 2018 links

http://pib.nic.in/PressReleaseIframePag ... ID=1529134
Exercise Gaganshakti-2018: Maritime Air Operations
Image
In the long range strike concept validation, the Su-30s, airborne from a base on the eastern coast engaged multiple targets, in the western seaboard, at distances beyond 2500 Km, and landed at a southern base, thus covering a total distance of 4000 Km, in a single mission.

http://pib.nic.in/PressReleaseIframePag ... ID=1529137
Exercise Gaganshakti-2018: Mass Casualty Evacuation
The C-17 Globe Master Aircraft was converted for this role by fixing support structures for the stretchers, in the main cabin. An indigenously developed Patient Transfer Unit (PTU) capable of providing In-Flight Critical Care to patients was demonstrated during the exercise.

http://pib.nic.in/PressReleaseIframePag ... ID=1529144
Visit of Defence Secretary and VCAS at AF STN Sirsa
Both the Defence Secretary and the Vice Chief of Air Staff flew a sortie each in Su-30 MKI squadron based at Sirsa.

http://pib.nic.in/PressReleaseIframePag ... ID=1529160
Exercise Gaganshakti - 2018: Joint Operations Battalion Level Airborne Assault
This assault included paradrop of 560 paratroopers, combat vehicles and GPS guided cargo platforms. The landing force was dropped behind the simulated enemy lines to soften up the likely resistance to our own armoured offensive. The airborne force comprised six C-130J and seven An-32 aircraft launched from multiple IAF bases. The force was provided aerial surveillance by AWACS and protected by a Flight of SU-30 Air Superiority Fighters.

vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 661
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby vsunder » 16 Apr 2018 19:30

Operation Shiksha was held in November 1963. It had two components that were disjoint. First was a joint exercise with USAF with Western Command based at Palam airport. A second exercise with the RAF to the East over the Bay of Bengal. The USAF brought in F100 Super Sabres and C130E's. RAF brought in 2 squadrons of Javelin fighters and 2 Australian Canberras based in Kalaikunda and Dum Dum. 750 Western personnel accompanied these exercises from the US and Commonwealth countries. When they left after the exercises were over, they left 2 mobile radars behind. A second round of exercises was planned in April 1964 but Nehru vetoed it. In any case there was a news embargo of sorts from the Indian government as Nehru's policy of non-alignment was seen to take a hit.

The USAF forces were very surprised at the IAF abilities and the ability of IAF to quickly scramble in minutes and reach 30,000 feet and wait for enemy forces. Wg. Cdr Ian "Locky" Loughran was the one who wrote his memories of Shiksha on BR which has now disappeared. He mentions "Dice" Dhiman and his role in surprising the USAF commanding officer.

Similar story occurred with the Indian pilots who went to Nellis. It is a distinguished group many rose to high rank later. Bhatia and Brar won the gunnery competition against PAF and US pilots and CO at Nellis wrote a commendation letter to Air HQ commending the "elite" pilots sent to Nellis. There was bewilderment at Air Hq as the pilots were really pilots off the line. After the two batches Nehru again cancelled the program. The choice of pilots who flew the F86 Sabres at Nellis in 1964 would have important consequences a year later in the 1965 war. All the Indian pilots were from Mystere and Gnat squadrons, none from Hunters.

There was an acrobatic display by the USAF of tight formations etc. in Shiksha. The USAF Brigadier said many in that team were ex Thunderbirds. After that AVM Pinto(who was killed in an air crash) tasked Ian Loughran and Dhiman to show some aerobatics. 6 Hunters took off of 7 squadron(then commanded by Ian Loughran). Dice Dhiman was briefed to do some tight maneuvers. At short notice this team did a series of precision aerobatics and landed in two "vic" formations all together leaving the USAF general flabbergasted and chagrined. He commented there was not much they could teach the IAF. The F100's were from the 356 tactical fighter squadron(Green Devils) based at Myrtle Beach, South Carolina and over all command of the exercise was under Brigadier General Graham. The General was asked to test the readiness by personally issuing the scramble order from the ORP at Ambala. Consistently IAF pilots were well airborne and at altitude before the 12 mins it took the USAF pilots. A trove of photographs and movies of Operation Shiksha exists in the US National archives!!

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34919
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shiv » 16 Apr 2018 19:52

^^Thanks vsunder. I will use available channels to me to try and locate the originals on BR

vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 661
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby vsunder » 16 Apr 2018 19:56

Here the batches who trained at Nellis

Batch 1:

Vinod Kumar "Jimmy" Bhatia, Darshan Singh Brar, Boman Irani, Dinky Jatar, AK Kaushal, A Kale, "Naughty" Nautiyal, SS "Dangerman" Dange, Peter M Brown(who wrote the now vanished BR article with pics), "Chimp" Potnis,
Arun Jatar.

Batch 2:

JS Brar, Mike Mcmahon, Philip Rajkumar, Farukh Irani, JL Bhargava, Russell Montes, Bobby Roy, Bhaskar, Raju Maindarkar.

Total 20 pilots.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 49325
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 17 Apr 2018 04:01

vsunder, thanks for the memories. Will dig for the Peter Brown article.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34919
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shiv » 17 Apr 2018 08:27


vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 661
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby vsunder » 17 Apr 2018 08:59

^^^
I located Philip Rajkumar's memories of Training at Nellis. Could not find Peter Brown's article. Jagan will have it.

https://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/hist ... mar01.html

Rajkumar says that crew trained at both San Antonio and Nellis/Las Vegas.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20760
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 17 Apr 2018 10:23

Image

Image

schinnas
BRFite
Posts: 1281
Joined: 11 Jun 2009 09:44

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby schinnas » 17 Apr 2018 10:46

Any news on how LCA performed in Gaganshakti?

g.sarkar
BRFite
Posts: 1356
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby g.sarkar » 17 Apr 2018 11:03

vsunder wrote:Yes Ramana I recall it very well. In fact there was a write up about it on our BR archives by one of the Anglo ex IAF types who migrated to Canada or UK. It was just after 1962, was supposed to give a lal batti to China. RAF types thought they could run circles around the IAF and were mistaken. Lot of the operations were over the Bay of Bengal. I will take a guess CHL Digby, but I could be wrong. The archives are now so weirdly organized I seem not to find anything.
Even some IAF pilots went to Nellis, Nevada for training in that period. Their experiences with pictures was the subject of an article in the Archives. AVM Philip Rajkumar and Des Peters are the names I remember of that Nellis group. Two groups went and then the program ended.

While trying to search IAF visit to Nellis Airbase in 1963, I accidentally found this article by Benjamin S. Lambeth, which may have some relevance even today. I apologize if this old article was already discussed at BRF.
http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArch ... 5india.pdf
Still trying to find anything from the 1963 visit.
Gautam
PS after posting I found the stuff on Shiksha has now been uploaded.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20760
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 17 Apr 2018 11:37

schinnas wrote:Any news on how LCA performed in Gaganshakti?



Full Interview https://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news ... ssion=true

More than 1,100 aircraft – half of them fighter jets – have logged over 6,000 flight hours in three days during the Indian Air Force’s largest exercise in the past three decades, with Air Chief Marshal Birender Singh ’Tony’ Dhanoa saying on Monday that Pakistan was closely watching the operation that is “shaking the heavens and splitting the Earth”.

As IAF’s assets in the largest-of-its-kind exercise, Gaganshakti-2018, move from the western sector to the eastern front “in less than 48 hours,” Dhanoa said, all training activities in the force will remain suspended till the two-phase drill ends on April 22. It is usually in wartime that militaries shelve all training activities.


The exercise has had no glitches so far except a Jaguar fighter veering off the runway at the Bhuj airbase due to bad weather and a few Tejas light combat aircraft developing snags. “Hindustan Aeronautics Limited was able to fix the Tejas problems in less than 12 hours,” Dhanoa said.


British-origin Hawk advanced jet trainers, capable of dropping bombs, are also taking part in the exercise as the IAF is struggling with a shortage of warplanes.

We have noticed that they (Pakistan) are monitoring Gaganshakti-2018 closely through their airborne sensors (airborne warning and control systems),” the air chief said.


Dhanoa said the IAF jets have recorded a serviceability rate of 80% and flown very long range missions flawlessly. In IAF parlance, serviceability of a fleet refers to how many warplanes are available for missions at any given time.
Last edited by Austin on 17 Apr 2018 11:48, edited 1 time in total.

Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9533
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 17 Apr 2018 11:41

Actual quote from the above link

The exercise has had no glitches so far except a Jaguar fighter veering off the runway at the Bhuj airbase due to bad weather and a few Tejas light combat aircraft developing snags. “Hindustan Aeronautics Limited was able to fix the Tejas problems in less than 12 hours,” Dhanoa said.


British-origin Hawk advanced jet trainers, capable of dropping bombs, are also taking part in the exercise as the IAF is struggling with a shortage of warplanes.

Compared to an optimum strength of 42-plus units required to fight a two-front war, the count of the IAF’s fighter squadrons has shrunk to 30 (excluding the Tejas squadron with eight aircraft).


Some selective reporting I guess

Bala Vignesh
BRFite
Posts: 1895
Joined: 30 Apr 2009 02:02
Location: Standing at the edge of the cliff
Contact:

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Bala Vignesh » 17 Apr 2018 12:34

It would be interesting to see the deployment pattern for the Midas refuellers during the excercise to see how the IAF looks to deploy them during a combat scenario.

suryag
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3018
Joined: 11 Jan 2009 00:14

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby suryag » 17 Apr 2018 15:46

Great to find out issues on Tejas, this is what is needed to make the system robust and battleworthy. Most A/Cs would not have survived this intensity on their first outing. Also a testimony to the ground crew that knows how to keep the machines fighting fit under pressure

Lalmohan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12580
Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Lalmohan » 17 Apr 2018 16:58

Bala Vignesh wrote:It would be interesting to see the deployment pattern for the Midas refuellers during the excercise to see how the IAF looks to deploy them during a combat scenario.


would be, but I don't think we would be discussing it publicly!

vinod
BRFite
Posts: 589
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby vinod » 17 Apr 2018 17:50

More number of sorties could be also a leaf out of the book on Russian air performance at Syrian theatre!

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34919
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shiv » 17 Apr 2018 18:55

vinod wrote:More number of sorties could be also a leaf out of the book on Russian air performance at Syrian theatre!

Why do we Indians frequently speak as if there is no Indian book?

jaysimha
BRFite
Posts: 376
Joined: 20 Dec 2017 14:30

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby jaysimha » 17 Apr 2018 18:57

PIB gagan shakthi update
http://pib.nic.in/PressReleaseIframePag ... ID=1529389

Ministry of Defence
Maritime Air OPS: Ex Gagan Shakti-2018
Posted On: 17 APR 2018 6:12PM by PIB Delhi
During both phases of Ex Gagan Shakti, the IAF is effectively exercising its Maritime war fighting concepts on both the Western and Eastern seaboards. Air Dominance, over the entire extended area of the Indian Ocean Region (IOR) in support of the Indian Navy (IN) is being demonstrated by employment of combat enablers like the FRA (Flight Refueling Aircraft) in conjunction with our maritime fighter forces of the Su-30 and Jaguar class carrying potent long distance anti shipping weaponry.

Missions have been flown in the initial phase to address both near and in depth targets over the Western Sea Board utilising Su-30 and Jaguar fighter aircraft equipped with the potent Brahmos and Harpoon Anti ship missiles respectively. The Su-30 ac has also showcased its strategic reach by operating from the eastern most air bases on the peninsula and engaging maritime targets well out into the western seaboard with support of AAR. After quick repositioning of Maritime Assets the focus has now shifted in Phase–II to addressing targets over the Eastern Sea Board right upto the Mallaca Straits. The full compliment of Maritime Assets would now operate from bases in the Southern peninsula and Andaman & Nicobar islands. Extensive missions would be flown by the Su-30 and Jaguar in conjunction with the IN P-8i MR ac using long range weapons to refine and practice offensive and defensive tactics against maritime targets.

Such demonstrations of extended reach utilizing potent standoff weapons in Joint coordinated Operations with the IN has adequately show cased the IAF ability to support the IN in order to dominate the IOR and effectively address any misadventure by an adversary in our area of interest.

*******************
ARG/MKR
(Release ID: 1529389)

Image

vinod
BRFite
Posts: 589
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby vinod » 17 Apr 2018 19:21

shiv wrote:
vinod wrote:More number of sorties could be also a leaf out of the book on Russian air performance at Syrian theatre!

Why do we Indians frequently speak as if there is no Indian book?


Sir, didn't intend to mean that we didn't have a book. It is just that, it is the real operational one going on right now. Trying out the techniques employed by them, and picking and choosing what works is always good. IAF top echelons would have surely kept an eye on those Russian operations and surely would like to add to our own book! I was merely pointing to that..

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34919
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shiv » 17 Apr 2018 19:50

vinod wrote:
shiv wrote:Why do we Indians frequently speak as if there is no Indian book?


Sir, didn't intend to mean that we didn't have a book. It is just that, it is the real operational one going on right now. Trying out the techniques employed by them, and picking and choosing what works is always good. IAF top echelons would have surely kept an eye on those Russian operations and surely would like to add to our own book! I was merely pointing to that..

Have you actually read any of our books? I can suggest at least one.

Why is there a tacit assumption that we are learning from them rather than they are learning from us. If enough effort is put into reading IAF history you find that IAF tactics have been better than any Russian stuff. Even BR has such articles if only people stepped out of the forum and social media. It is simply ignorance of this that makes people comment "Maybe the Russians can do something that we can learn or "maybe we can learn from the Americans". After every conflict people have been wondering what the IAF did because what was done was not Russian or American but uniquely developed by the IAF for India. Such stories abound.

Did you read the articles posted by me and vsunder higher up on this page?

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 49325
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 17 Apr 2018 20:23

Austin wrote:
schinnas wrote:Any news on how LCA performed in Gaganshakti?



Full Interview https://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news ... ssion=true

More than 1,100 aircraft – half of them fighter jets – have logged over 6,000 flight hours in three days during the Indian Air Force’s largest exercise in the past three decades, with Air Chief Marshal Birender Singh ’Tony’ Dhanoa saying on Monday that Pakistan was closely watching the operation that is “shaking the heavens and splitting the Earth”.

As IAF’s assets in the largest-of-its-kind exercise, Gaganshakti-2018, move from the western sector to the eastern front “in less than 48 hours,” Dhanoa said, all training activities in the force will remain suspended till the two-phase drill ends on April 22. It is usually in wartime that militaries shelve all training activities.


The exercise has had no glitches so far except a Jaguar fighter veering off the runway at the Bhuj airbase due to bad weather and a few Tejas light combat aircraft developing snags. “Hindustan Aeronautics Limited was able to fix the Tejas problems in less than 12 hours,” Dhanoa said.


British-origin Hawk advanced jet trainers, capable of dropping bombs, are also taking part in the exercise as the IAF is struggling with a shortage of warplanes.

We have noticed that they (Pakistan) are monitoring Gaganshakti-2018 closely through their airborne sensors (airborne warning and control systems),” the air chief said.


Dhanoa said the IAF jets have recorded a serviceability rate of 80% and flown very long range missions flawlessly. In IAF parlance, serviceability of a fleet refers to how many warplanes are available for missions at any given time.


The capability to move from one theater to the other is crucial during a two front war With this demonstrated sortie rate and an attrition factor, Pakistan will have no point targets after 72 hours based on precision strike with PGMs and laser pod ranging and as to area targets would also be mostly destroyed.

PAF will have no place to hide as Iran will confiscate the planes and same with Afghanistan.

Only place will be KSA and MBS is ready to take back his kingdom investments.

Same time the maritime strike will also eliminate PN bases and all ships at sea.
The PN subs will be depth charged to Davy jones locker.

I also think the para drops are very significant to understand the future concept of operations after air superiority is achieved.


And think how close Rawalpindi is from Srinagar.

ArjunPandit
BRFite
Posts: 1008
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 17 Apr 2018 20:43

Another thing that needs to be highlighted is that it bursts the bogey that IAF was not ready after 26/11. While 10 years is a long time and a lot has changed/improved since then. But beliving IAF was not ready is just a another cover for coward politicians to hide

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34919
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shiv » 17 Apr 2018 20:55

ramana wrote:
The capability to move from one theater to the other is crucial during a two front war With this demonstrated sortie rate and an attrition factor, Pakistan will have no point targets after 72 hours based on precision strike with PGMs and laser pod ranging and as to area targets would also be mostly destroyed.

Good thinking. This would not be possible with integrated theater commands

A related Tweet from me:
https://twitter.com/bennedose/status/986094608546349056
@Chopsyturvey @BahadurManmohan Sir would the following be possible if the Air Force was split up into integrated theatre commands (from a report in Times of India)

Image

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3970
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karthik S » 17 Apr 2018 21:01

Gurus, having witnessed the huge advantage heavy class fighters offer in terms of range and payload capability. Wouldn't it be better for us to order few more squadrons of MKIs (~ 320 +) ? Not taking anything away from likes of Tejas. But just that heavies give us much more flexibility

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34919
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shiv » 17 Apr 2018 21:06

There is a bias towards heavies because we mostly have heavies. Heavies will end up doing stuff that can be done efficiently by mediums or lights.

Check out videos of Iron Fist and Vayu Shakti. Everything done in this exercise has been done before with "lights and mediums" except 3000 km sorties. Most of our action will be within 500 km

ArjunPandit
BRFite
Posts: 1008
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 17 Apr 2018 21:34

Austin wrote: ’Tony’ Dhanoa saying on Monday that Pakistan was closely watching the operation that is “shaking the heavens and splitting the Earth”.


The fact that we can track their AEWCS will also do brown shalwar to them.

Cain Marko
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2965
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Cain Marko » 17 Apr 2018 22:15

This is great. In phase two can we see some action along side and against the Navy's fulcrums?

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 49325
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 17 Apr 2018 23:56

shiv wrote:There is a bias towards heavies because we mostly have heavies. Heavies will end up doing stuff that can be done efficiently by mediums or lights.

Check out videos of Iron Fist and Vayu Shakti. Everything done in this exercise has been done before with "lights and mediums" except 3000 km sorties. Most of our action will be within 500 km



When the SU-30MKI was purchased in late 1990, the objective was always PLAF airfields beyond Tibet.

Of course wise (guys) in media thought it was an after thought to justify these heavy fighters.

ArjunPandit
BRFite
Posts: 1008
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 18 Apr 2018 00:11

ramana wrote:When the SU-30MKI was purchased in late 1990, the objective was always PLAF airfields beyond Tibet.

Of course wise (guys) in media thought it was an after thought to justify these heavy fighters.


IAF folks who recommended and PVNR who went ahead with this purchase at the risk of position (Bofors was not a far off memory) must be thanked. Needless to say india is grateful to the media guys

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15079
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karan M » 18 Apr 2018 00:52

Lets be realistic about that 1500 km radius. Its only with 4 AAMs and firing those AAMs midway and returning on empty fuel.

vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 661
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby vsunder » 18 Apr 2018 02:06

vinod wrote:More number of sorties could be also a leaf out of the book on Russian air performance at Syrian theatre!


A story comes to mind. In 1971, the US and Pakis were quite astounded with the precision of night bombings by IAF. They concluded that the IAF was in possession of MOSS

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-126

Notice this idiot Wiki article ^^^ repeats the canard that a MOSS system was given to the IAF in 1971.
Sqdr Leader V. S. Jafa was beaten as a POW and even Chuck Yeager came to interrogate him in prison to make him divulge how many Moss systems India possessed. Jafa replied that all Indian pilots were equipped with "Indian eyeballs Mk 1." This is stated in Jafa's account Appendix B of P. C. Lal's book on the IAF. So much for copying Russians. It was quite the rage for newspapers like New York Times writing about about Indian military in the 1970's-2000 to always add the obligatory sentence, India has a military largely furnished with Russian weapons and employing Russian tactics where a controller leads in aircraft etc etc. The Americans fell for this and COPE India 2004 wiped their clocks clean. Suddenly not a single US newspaper puts in this obligatory phrase anymore though two phrases are obligatory "Indian railways has a creaky colonial era Railway system"
" India is burdened with a military that has ageing Russian hardware ...."

After all once Gen. Sunderji while welcoming some US generals into his office in South block, opened the door to his private bathroom and said "this is where I keep my Russian controller". :rotfl:

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15079
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karan M » 18 Apr 2018 02:15

lol.. i remember having a vicious debate with a wannabe amriki cowboy about "russian trained IAF".. a few years later cope india happened and suddenly all these jokers were up in arms.
just waiting for the day our guys understand and value indian arms production and routinely whack these chaps in exercises and what not.
datalinked tejas + akash take down droves of fancy western fighters and what not.

Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2127
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Cybaru » 18 Apr 2018 02:26

ArjunPandit wrote:
Austin wrote: ’Tony’ Dhanoa saying on Monday that Pakistan was closely watching the operation that is “shaking the heavens and splitting the Earth”.


The fact that we can track their AEWCS will also do brown shalwar to them.


All sides can see each others AEWs that is why you fly them with protective escorts during non peace time.


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ravikr, Vips and 53 guests