Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby abhik » 18 Jan 2019 09:40

I very much doubt we have the money to buy Rafael, MKI and Tejas at the same time.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 18 Jan 2019 11:06

We have the money, we have consciously been cutting back on Budget defecits etc. Once the economy gets over the 9 Lac crore Banking NPA mess Legacy in 1 or 2 years it should be fine.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby hemant_sai » 18 Jan 2019 13:48

Rakesh wrote:^^^ Assuming ...


Though it doesn't make sense, MMRCA must be there for a reason. May be more as a strategic than to just answer depleting sqd issue. I don't know how much true it is but i read somewhere that start of MMRCA back then ensured that our neighbor is denied access to better platforms and strategic relations.
I just don't know why revised MMRCA was not declared in 2016 after Rafale deal was signed. Assuming revised MMRCA RFP should have come in 2017 and new one is expected in 2019, we lost 02 significant years along with political uncertainty looming again. Ideally instead of declaring MMRCA again in 2018, they should have ordered another 36 of Rafales that time and give more focus to Tejas program. As I read, I think this MMRCA is more of carrots to deny our neighbor any advantage. In the same light, I don't see we will succeed much in significantly reducing defense imports in this decade.

Coming back to 2025 numbers, We are too optimistic about MK1A production rate. If it starts in 2021, to deliver 83 by 2025, production rate should reach 20+/year. Even if 40 more Mk1A are ordered, I don't see they will be delivered by 2025 - no way. I am not very optimistic about private line set up for MK1A. Honestly I am not very optimistic that sqd. strength situation will improve by 2025. Why we are not planning to reach at least 40 by 2025? There will be elections again in 2024, and you never know if a decade will be wasted again.

On the sidelines, I also wonder if this discussion adds any value? Does it reach to the concerned person? If our guru's here really connect with govt? Have they tried sending their ideas/proposals/presentations - https://pmopg.gov.in/pmocitizen/Grievancepmo.aspx ? And if yes, has anyone got any reply yet :)

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Indranil » 18 Jan 2019 14:24

Please change your name to a human-sounding name in accordance to forum rules. You have three days.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 18 Jan 2019 20:21

shaun wrote:In the above picture shared on mig29 upgrade , there seems to be 62 baaz including trainers , have we lost 8 in between one decade ??

Around 67 airframes were acquired in total. Some sources say as high as 70. There have been 15 confirmed crashes to date.

See here ---> http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Datab ... d=71&qt=TY

Thus 67 - 15 = 52 aircraft. I had it around 54 aircraft in my post. If we go with 70 airframes, it would mean around 55 airframes left. Regardless of the exact number, the IAF's MiG-29 strength is somewhere in the early 50s.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 18 Jan 2019 20:22

AsatoMaSatGamaya: As Indranil has said, please change your username. I will reply to your post.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby JayS » 19 Jan 2019 01:35

Rakesh wrote:
Su-30MKI: around 15 Sqns ---> 312 aircraft (with 7 hull losses to date) for a total of 308 aircraft.

Wait a minute. I thought the 272 on order themselves make up 15 Sq, isn't that correct..??

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 19 Jan 2019 02:53

JayS wrote:Wait a minute. I thought the 272 on order themselves make up 15 Sq, isn't that correct..??

List of Su-30MKI Squadrons (from wiki chacha). The list needs to be updated, as around 240 Su-30MKIs have been manufactured to date. That would leave just 32 aircraft which does not gel with the numbers below.

Western & South Western Air Commands
• No. 8 Squadron @ Bareilly AFS
• No. 15 Squadron @ Bhuj AFS
• No. 17 Squadron @ Bhatinda AFS
• No. 20 Squadron @ Lohegaon AFS
• No. 30 Squadron @ Lohegaon AFS
• No. 31 Squadron @ Jodhpur AFS
• No. 220 Squadron @ Halwara AFS
• No. 221 Squadron @ Halwara AFS

Central Air Command
• TACDE @ Maharajpur AFS, Gwalior (this is not a squadron)

Eastern Air Command
• No. 2 Squadron @ Tezpur AFS
• No. 102 Squadron @ Chabua AFS
• One yet-to-be-raised unit @ Kalaikunda AFS

Southern Air Command
• One yet-to-be-raised unit @ Sulur AFS
• One yet-to-be-raised unit @ Thanjavur AFS

The above comes to 13 squadrons, but not including TACDE (Tactics & Air Combat Development Establishment). Now going by the traditional rule of thumb of 18 aircraft per squadron, 272 does work out to 15 squadrons. But it looks like that the Rambha's strength hovers around 20+ aircraft per squadron. At 20 aircraft per squadron, 272 works out to 13+ squadrons which ties in with above. Also, in terms of serviceability and availability, the Rambha has not been the most ideal of aircraft. So a greater number of airframes per squadron does make sense. It was then Defence Minister Parrikar who mentioned that the squadron availability of the Rambha hovered around 55%. It has now gone to an above respectable 70% mark.

TACDE has hosted a variety of aircraft since its inception in the early 70s. The MiG-21, MiG-27 and MiG-29 served in TACDE. So did the Mirage 2000 and now the Su-30MKI as well. Just as the name suggests, experienced pilots operate a variety of aircraft and helos to gauge capability and fully exploit the platform. Lessons learnt at TACDE then trickles down to other squadrons that operate the type. But they do not need an entire squadron for that, perhaps around 4 - 5 aircraft at most.

A follow on order of 40 Su-30MKIs (or two squadrons) therefore will bring the strength up to 15 squadrons or 308 aircraft. If ordered, those two may go to the Eastern Air Command.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 19 Jan 2019 03:02

If you go to Google Maps and type the following in the search bar ---> Gwalior Airport

You will see two MiG-21s, four MiG-27s, five MiG-29s, three Su-30MKIs and four Mirage 2000s parked in various locations all over the airbase. The first four types are out of place at that airbase and only the Mirage 2000 (all three squadrons) is home to Gwalior. They do not belong there :) They are there because of TACDE. See that dual runway at Gwalior? The second runway is of 2009 vintage.

TACDE used to be at Jamnagar first, they later on moved to Gwalior.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Singha » 19 Jan 2019 07:52

The four biggest iaf fighter bases seem to be jamnagar gwalior jodhpur and either ambala or halwara

Similar investment in double runways and HAS are hopefully coming east because we we need it

Kalaikunda hashimara bagdogra chabua all look basic compared to jodhpur. With more sukhois and rafales puahed east( rafale will replace mig27 @ hashimara) the i fra needs toning up

Akash and spyders seem to be in place

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 19 Jan 2019 09:07

In 1971 Mrs.G cleaved Pak into two and BDesh- a friendly nation towards India reduced the threat from the east.

However, the Chinese colonialistic ambitions and its physical presencd in POK, Gwadar and increased military strength in Tibet, has seen the return of the two-front threat to India with a vengeance.The Chin presence in Pak- consideted " untouchable" by India, is what has emboldened the Pakis to raise the stakes in J& K.It is losing its fear of warring by the day thanks to the Chinese factor.
Therefore the GOI needs a revision of the defence budget on a war footing to be able to counter the rapidly growing threat of a Sino- Pak JV war in the next decade.

Augmenting the numbers and sqds. of aircraft in the IAF is of utmost impprtance.If we have realised that in the interim " more of the same"- extra MKIs are one solution, extra new 29/35s to at least UPG std. is another cost-effective option.Whether a 3rd. line for LCAs may accelerate its production is a moot point, but each existing line should be press-ganged into producing a min. of 12/yr., preferably around 16.This should give us between 24 to 32 LCAs every year to square the numbers equation and take care of the threat of the large fleet of PAF JF-17s.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby JayS » 19 Jan 2019 22:04

Admiral, I found one report from 2011 or so which had the then COAS Browne statement saying total 13.5Sq are planned for Su30MKI.

ANI has a news report today saying IAF is preparing to order 8 additional jets to make up for the losses based on some IAF sources. But the same sources say they have not heard about order of 40 jets. Guess we should believe only when CCS approves AON.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 20 Jan 2019 00:34

hemant_sai wrote:Though it doesn't make sense, MMRCA must be there for a reason. May be more as a strategic than to just answer depleting sqd issue. I don't know how much true it is but i read somewhere that start of MMRCA back then ensured that our neighbor is denied access to better platforms and strategic relations.

First off, thank you for changing your username. Greatly appreciated.

Pakistan cannot afford any of the platforms in the MMRCA contest. They are beggars. They could not even afford the 18 F-16 Block 50/52s that they recently got from the US Govt. Much of the cost - if not all - was subsidized by the US Govt. They wanted the same for the follow on order of 18 F-16 Block 50/52s. They got the middle finger and are still whining about it.

MiG-35, Su-35, Gripen E, Eurofighter Typhoon, Rafale C, F-16 Block 70 or F-18 Super Hornet III for Pakistan Air Force? :lol: Jokes aside, perhaps the Block 70 if a new US Govt is in baksheesh mode. But Trump has exposed Porkistan's duplicity in full view and it will be hard for a future Administration (Democratic or Republican) to justify sending more hi-tech combat platforms like the F-16 to Pakistan. And as per LM, the Block 70 has F-35 tech in it. You know where that will land up!

China is not getting their hands on any Western MMRCA platform, because of their xerox copy nature. And out of the two Russian platforms - the MiG-35 and Su-35 - they have already received around 24 airframes of the Su-35 and are xerox copying them as we speak. They will not invest money into the MiG-35. The Su-35 is a far more combat capable platform. If anything, the beggars may get Su-35 copies in exchange for handing over more of their sovereignty to the Chinese. They will not even be able to afford the xerox-copy Chinese Su-35. Have you seen the Pakistan economy?

MMRCA exists to address squadron depletion only. American apologists converted it - even on BRF as well! - into a strategic partnership purchase. There was talk on BRF - during the SEF contest - that F-16 Block 70/72 would be down payment for engine tech from GE. All nonsense, especially now that the JETJWG has gone the way of the dodo.

But like all big ticket purchases, it has been mired in (fake) controversy. Rafale purchase has caused a lot of heartburn in many circles.

hemant_sai wrote:I just don't know why revised MMRCA was not declared in 2016 after Rafale deal was signed. Assuming revised MMRCA RFP should have come in 2017 and new one is expected in 2019, we lost 02 significant years along with political uncertainty looming again. Ideally instead of declaring MMRCA again in 2018, they should have ordered another 36 of Rafales that time and give more focus to Tejas program. As I read, I think this MMRCA is more of carrots to deny our neighbor any advantage. In the same light, I don't see we will succeed much in significantly reducing defense imports in this decade.

The Govt will not order anymore Rafales till the CAG report comes out with a clean chit and till the 2019 elections are over. Both outcomes have to *HEAVILY* favour the present Govt to even consider such a purchase. If and when that does occur, then political capital will exist for the Prime Minister to go ahead. At that point, they should just cancel the MMRCA contest - giving a valid reason of cost & time - and state that the focus will be on acquisition via increasing the present numbers in service (i.e. Su-30MKI, Tejas and Rafale). If any OEM whines about it, just advise it is our air force, our govt, our money and our purchase.

hemant_sai wrote:Coming back to 2025 numbers, We are too optimistic about MK1A production rate. If it starts in 2021, to deliver 83 by 2025, production rate should reach 20+/year. Even if 40 more Mk1A are ordered, I don't see they will be delivered by 2025 - no way. I am not very optimistic about private line set up for MK1A. Honestly I am not very optimistic that sqd. strength situation will improve by 2025. Why we are not planning to reach at least 40 by 2025? There will be elections again in 2024, and you never know if a decade will be wasted again.

Well by the end of March 2019, HAL is reportedly on target for 16/yr. So let us wait and see.

A follow on order of 40 Mk1s would be nice. Will keep the production line going, till the Mk1A is ready.

hemant_sai wrote:On the sidelines, I also wonder if this discussion adds any value? Does it reach to the concerned person? If our guru's here really connect with govt? Have they tried sending their ideas/proposals/presentations - https://pmopg.gov.in/pmocitizen/Grievancepmo.aspx ? And if yes, has anyone got any reply yet :)

Strength and numbers are based on open source information. Perhaps there is a reason to import 110 fighters in MMRCA 2.0 than we do not know about. And nothing we discuss here, has not already been discussed at Air HQ. And if it has not been discussed at Air HQ, then it is not worth discussing about :)

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 20 Jan 2019 00:39

JayS wrote:Admiral, I found one report from 2011 or so which had the then COAS Browne statement saying total 13.5Sq are planned for Su30MKI.

ANI has a news report today saying IAF is preparing to order 8 additional jets to make up for the losses based on some IAF sources. But the same sources say they have not heard about order of 40 jets. Guess we should believe only when CCS approves AON.

That adds weightage to the wiki numbers I quoted in my post. So 13 squadrons out of 272 is more or less confirmed then.

That 0.5 unit (around 10+ airframes) would have been for attrition reserves + TACDE.

Yes, will have to wait for CCS approval to see if it is 40 more airframes (two squadrons) or 8 more airframes (make up for losses). Let us wait and see.

The 8 is interesting though. I thought since that June 2018 Rambha crash was prior to delivery, it would not count in the IAF's numbers. I assumed HAL was going to eat that cost and churn out another one. Silly me! :oops:

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby deejay » 20 Jan 2019 00:46

^ Always war reserves Admiral.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ashthor » 20 Jan 2019 19:30

Why not a full squadron instead of 8? DRDO or HAL can be given one or two for R&D and the others can be kept as reserves.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 20 Jan 2019 21:37

HAL whining could be cut dead by a firm committment of say 200 LCAs within a definite timeframe and cost! This order should be broken into 3 or 4 phases/ blocs. Satisfactory delivery of bloc 1 would automatically result in approval for further orders.Failure would invite orders going to the pvt. sector.Perform or perish.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby sankum » 20 Jan 2019 22:33

If they are ordering only 8 Su 30mki, that means they are keeping capital free to buy additional 36 Rafale in 2022-25 time period.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Cybaru » 22 Jan 2019 09:07

Philip wrote:HAL whining could be cut dead by a firm committment of say 200 LCAs within a definite timeframe and cost! This order should be broken into 3 or 4 phases/ blocs. Satisfactory delivery of bloc 1 would automatically result in approval for further orders.Failure would invite orders going to the pvt. sector.Perform or perish.



That seems like such a terrible opinion. No economies of scale, no learning curve experience, no ability to plan production line. Fits right into what the armed forces current model is at the moment. Thumbs down to such piecemeal idea. It's not even original! :roll:

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 22 Jan 2019 09:54

Honeywell’s high cost threatens Jaguar fighter’s engine upgrade
Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), which is leading the project, has written to Honeywell protesting its “high and unacceptable quote”, which HAL says will “kill” the plan to re-engine the Jaguar.

IAF, HAL and Honeywell sources confirm the US firm has quoted $2.4 billion for 180 engines – which include 160 engines for 80 twin-engine Jaguars, and 20 spare engines. That amounts to $13.3 million (Rs 95 crore) per engine.

That has taken the cost of “re-engining” each Jaguar to a prohibitive Rs 210 crore, including Rs 20 crore per aircraft that HAL will charge to integrate the new engines in the fighter and to flight-test and certify them.

Business Standard learns that, given Honeywell’s high quote, the IAF has put on hold the next step of the Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP), which is to obtain the defence ministry’s “acceptance of necessity” (AoN) for the project.

The IAF currently has six Jaguar squadrons, comprising of 120 fighters. Only the 80 newest are getting new Honeywell engines, while the older 40 Jaguars will fly with their original Rolls-Royce engines until they retire in the early 2020s

Business Standard has examined a detailed protest note that HAL sent to Honeywell this month, arguing that the US firm’s current $2.4 billion quote – which can be reduced to $1.9 billion by placing a consolidated order for development and manufacture – prices each engine at twice that of an earlier quote, submitted by Honeywell in 2013.

That quote was submitted when the plan was for Honeywell to supply 275 engines. That included 240 engines for all 120 Jaguars, plus 35 engines spare. For all these engines, Honeywell had demanded $1.634 billion, or just under $6 million per engine.


HAL’s note to Honeywell points out that its current quote of $13.3 million per engine is more than double the 2013 quote. Even if a consolidated order were placed – which would bring down Honeywell’s cost to $1.9 billion, or $10.6 million per engine – that is still 75 per cent higher than the 2013 price.


In 2013, Honeywell was also responsible for integrating the F-125IN engines onto the Jaguar, flight-testing and certification, developing a new alternator to power the other aircraft systems and providing maintenance knowhow. The US firm had quoted an additional $2.1 billion for all this, taking the 2013 quote to $3.734 billion.

Given the unaffordability of this, HAL undertook to lead the project, assuming responsibility for integrating the F-125IN engine onto the Jaguar, and carrying out all the airframe modifications, aero analysis, flight-testing and certification that Honeywell was responsible for in the 2013 tender. While Honeywell had quoted $1.6 billion for this work in 2013, HAL has now quoted under $300 million.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 22 Jan 2019 09:56

Looks like Honeywell has double the price of each engine from its 2013 quote ...Each Jag has two engine so double the cost plus integrating cost etc.

HAL did no effort to increase Thrust of RR engine as they have been making these engine at its facility

The only viable option is to replace Jags with Tejas Mk2

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Khalsa » 22 Jan 2019 13:36

I felt like asking Ajai a question..... how come its not Modi's fault that the price of Jag upgrade has gone up ?
ha ha ha ha

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby nam » 22 Jan 2019 18:02

So the new cost of two engines for each Jag, cost 2/3 the price of LCA MK1 :rotfl:

Even the 2013 quote, if we include the cost of the entire change, it comes to 30 million per Jag, more than LCA Mk1 :rotfl:

And they need to retire in max of 10 years!

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby John » 22 Jan 2019 18:45

nam wrote:So the new cost of two engines for each Jag, cost 2/3 the price of LCA MK1 :rotfl:

Even the 2013 quote, if we include the cost of the entire change, it comes to 30 million per Jag, more than LCA Mk1 :rotfl:

And they need to retire in max of 10 years!

Not even worth it at this point to upgrade it even if Honeywell reduce the price in half..

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby nam » 22 Jan 2019 20:02

It explains why the re-engine plan did not go anywhere..I wouldn't be surprised that this information is been made public by MoD to put down IAF's wishful thinking...

IAF should see the writing on the wall. It is all LCA now..

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby JayS » 22 Jan 2019 20:13

I think Honeywell is not really interested in selling the engines anymore. Who would buy the piddi engines at a cost higher than what F135 costs..??

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby John » 22 Jan 2019 20:28

Given the typical cost 50-100% overruns with almost all projects this will easily end up around 40+ million per AC. And HAL will likely lose money on this deal and not to mention significant risk with certification. I would not be surprised if they are praying for this deal to be axed as well. Interestingly i have seen few foreign def analysts be puzzled with this upgrade program because of costs involved and limited time frame left for these ACs (this was with old deal $$).

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Cain Marko » 22 Jan 2019 21:43

Re. Jag engine upgrade price hike. This is exactly what happens when ahole decision makers sit on critical decisions for years... We've seen this same story repeat do many times. Criminal waste of priceless resources.

Ultimately they go begging to vendors who Jack up prices seeing the desperation of the buyer and cite inflationary hikes, which is true as well.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby nam » 22 Jan 2019 21:46

In this case, I support MoD sitting on the file.

Even the 2013 quote is 30 million per Jag. At that price you will get a new LCA with 20-30 years life, over retiring in 10 years Jag.

It is nonsense to spend so much money.

Either IAF continue with the current Jag for 10 years or go for LCA as replacement.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Singha » 22 Jan 2019 21:46

the dollar exchange rate has also become adverse over the last decade. I say we cannot climb to next level through keeping the rupee low, we cannot follow east asian export led path to the future, we have to harden the rupee and make it easier to import the goods and services needed to develop our giant internal market potential.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 23 Jan 2019 01:58

Honeywell clearly knows that they got the IAF right where they want them to be. No other engine manufacturer has an upgrade program for the Jaguar. So they will jack up the price. At this stage, if Honeywell does not budge then the IAF will have to continue with the Darin III upgrade minus the F125 engine. She will be overweight, which will result in a reduced load capacity. Like Cain-ji said, this is the net result of sitting on the file for years. The C-17 was the same story. Our MoD will never learn.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby John » 23 Jan 2019 02:26

Rakesh wrote:Honeywell clearly knows that they got the IAF right where they want them to be. No other engine manufacturer has an upgrade program for the Jaguar. So they will jack up the price. At this stage, if Honeywell does not budge then the IAF will have to continue with the Darin III upgrade minus the F125 engine. She will be overweight, which will result in a reduced load capacity. Like Cain-ji said, this is the net result of sitting on the file for years. The C-17 was the same story. Our MoD will never learn.

IMO I believe honeywell is focusing on its split I really don't think they care that much about this deal, they can throw around absurd #s and if the deal falls thru oh well.

As for overall upgrade program It was overpriced back in 2013 as well, I know people here laughed at Saudis spending 50mill+ to upgrade their Tornados, we are getting far less in Jaguar upgrades. Just retire them as planned and focus on LCA.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 23 Jan 2019 04:09

Still, that F125 engine would have been nice to have on the Jaguar Darin III. Oh well!

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 23 Jan 2019 04:10

At This Year’s Republic Day Event, Indian Air Force to Fly its Aircraft Using Biofuel
https://mercomindia.com/republic-day-in ... t-biofuel/

At the 70th Republic Day celebrations this year, the Indian Air Force (IAF) will lead the way towards a greener future by utilizing biofuel for its aircraft during the fly-past ceremony. Biofuels in India are of strategic importance as they integrate well with the government’s ongoing initiatives, such as Make in India, Swachh Bharat Abhiyan, and Skill Development. According to Press Trust of India (PTI), “A host of country’s air defense capabilities will be showcased during the Republic Day celebrations, including a ‘vic’ formation of An-32 aircraft, whose lead plane will be flying using a mix of traditional and biofuel for the first time during the parade.” “The An-32 (Satluj) formation will also exhibit India’s quest to seek alternative sources of fuel. The lead aircraft of the formation will be flying utilizing Aviation Turbine Fuel blended with 10 percent biofuel,” PTI quoted a senior IAF official as saying.

The biofuel has been extracted from Jathropha plant seeds using a technology patented by the Council of Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR) and the Indian Institute of Petroleum, Dehradun. In a previous interview with Mercom, Charmaine Fernandes Sharma, the co-founder of Observing I, a company providing sustainable solutions for waste management and clean technologies, highlighted how earlier efforts in the field of biofuels, included government incentives for growing Jathropha as the miracle source for biofuels. In India, millions of marginal farmers and landless people were encouraged to plant Jathropha. However, the results have been disappointing. In India, 85 percent of the Jathropha farmers have discontinued growing it. This extraordinary collapse of Jathropha as a global biofuel has been ascribed by analysts to an overestimation of Jathropha capabilities, as the species is not yet sufficiently adapted to cultivation to provide sustainably high yields and economic returns, together with a lack of diligence in implementing nationwide cultivation plans.

Having said that, the recent development shows the country’s commitment to battling climate change by reduction in its emissions. Last year, experimental test pilots and test engineer from IAF’s testing establishment, Aircrafts and Systems Testing (ASTE), flew India’s first military flight using blended bio-jet fuel on the An-32 transport aircraft. In August 2018, the first biofuel-based flight in India successfully completed its journey from Dehradun to Delhi. India-based flight operator SpiceJet operated the test flight powered by biojet fuel, marking a new chapter in the fast-growing domestic aviation sector. Per SpiceJet, the advantage of using biojet fuel as compared to ATF is that it reduces carbon emissions and enhances fuel efficiency. At a function to mark the successful operation of the test flight, Civil Aviation Minister Suresh Prabhu had said back then that efforts are on to have a consumer-friendly, affordable and environment-friendly aviation sector.

In a country like India, where the overall economic growth is fueled by its agrarian sector, biofuels assume great significance in light of the country’s ambitious goals of doubling farmers’ income, import reduction, employment generation, and waste-to-wealth creation. Acknowledging the importance of abundant resources for biofuel in the country, the union cabinet recently approved the National Policy on Biofuels 2018. Aviation industry could generate demand of biofuels and encourage Indian farmers to indulge in cultivation of crops such as Jathropha. In the interview, Charmaine Fernandes had also said, “It is not always incentives, but just the creation of a well-defined value chain that will attract entrepreneurial activity and investment in this sector.”

JTull
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby JTull » 24 Jan 2019 14:03

Slow HAL impacting India's air combat strength: IAF to Govt

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Production delays by state run Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) have seriously impacted air combat strength, particularly when it comes to its Mirage 2000 and Jaguar fighter fleets that are currently undergoing upgrades, the air force has informed the government.

Pointing to delays ranging from two to six years, the air force has brought out that HAL has not been able to meet delivery schedules, resulting in both fleets being in a sub optimal state, besides raising questions on the trainer aircraft being developed by the agency.

The Mirage 2000 is India’s cutting edge fighter, tasked with a nuclear weapon delivery role as well. The Jaguar fleet was purchased in the late 1970s but is still a potent ground attack fighter designed for surgical, deep penetration missions.

However, in a review of the aeronautic company late last year, the air force has said that the series upgrade of 47 Mirage 2000 fighters that was signed in July 2011 has seen three production schedule delays already. It has informed the government that as per schedule, HAL should have delivered 21 upgraded jets but has actually been able to send only six.

Sources informed ET that since the review, one more jet has been delivered. HAL has blamed the delay on the non-availability of kits from France but the air force is not impressed by the argument, given that the contract was signed over seven years ago. Officials say this delay has seriously impactedoperational preparedness as well as availability rate for the ‘very competent fighter’.

Besides the 47 Mirage fighters, the air force has also red flagged a six year delay in the upgrade of the Jaguar fleet to DARIN III standard. The contract to upgrade 61of these fighters was signed in December 2009, with the understanding that all of them would be ready by December 2017.

However, not a single aircraft has yet been delivered to the air force with HAL struggling to integrate a new radar on the jets. IAF has informed the government that it now expects the upgraded fighters to join service only by 2024.

Sources said the delay has again come at the cost of combat strength as it has pushed down availability of fighters. At present, an entire squadron strength of 20 fighters is not operational, awaiting the upgrade.

HAL’s record on the delivery of Su 30 MKI fighters has also been questioned, with the government being informed that there is an overall delay of three years in the production schedule. While all aircraft were to be delivered by 2017, HAL still has at least 23 of the fighters to deliver to the air force.

On trainer aircraft, the air force has raised questions on the development schedule of the HTT 40 basic trainer. While the timeline for certification of the trainer was February 2015, the air force says the project is running behind time and it is not expected that HAL will manage even to certify the aircraft as fit for service before 2021.


If HAL is having difficulty integrating radar on Jags, I wonder what impact this has on Mk1A?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby nam » 24 Jan 2019 14:31

There is a IAF versus HAL washing dirty linen in the press going on. It is good, these things come out then MoD will be forced to take a decision. IAF is putting pressure on GoI to order more Rafale and responding to HAL's public comment on IAF sitting on MK1A order.

It is good these two fight publicly..

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby gaurav.p » 24 Jan 2019 14:54

Fighting in public might fix the political masters, but the mistrust and cooperation between different entities in future vanishes and creates a permanent divide. I guess this divide has already become so big enough that there is no other way left but to shake things up and wake the dormant/myopic political masters and fill the potholes.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby srin » 25 Jan 2019 00:21

Regarding the Jaguar re-engining, there were originally two in the fray - Honeywell F125 and Rolls Royce Adour 821 (i'm not able to get the specs of this). But Rolls royce got kicked out because the IAF wanted a new engine and not an updated one. Once that happened, we lost all leverage and are now at their mercy.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Khalsa » 25 Jan 2019 04:52

srin wrote:Regarding the Jaguar re-engining, there were originally two in the fray - Honeywell F125 and Rolls Royce Adour 821 (i'm not able to get the specs of this). But Rolls royce got kicked out because the IAF wanted a new engine and not an updated one. Once that happened, we lost all leverage and are now at their mercy.


Any way of influencing Honeywell via other means

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby souravB » 25 Jan 2019 05:29

Khalsa wrote:Any way of influencing Honeywell via other means

There is one. HAL finishes its HTFE-40 which it bragged will be replacing Adour.


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