Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

[JTull]

we need to move away from the cult and mystique of the individual ace air warrior to a dal roti unsexy "system of systems" approach where increasingly, the electronic superiority of radars, EW, missiles and loiter time plays a bigger role in achieving the desired effect of chasing the enemy from the air or destroying any challenger.

...

its not the big ripped guy with a mace who wins these days. its the small efficient inconspicuous sw driven munna who zero days the big buys bank a/c , shuts his car down, cancels all his credit cards and makes life hell for him without any smoke trail.

Singha ji, that sounds like the daydream of every desi ITwallah or analyst in the States who had been bullied by a muscle-bound gora office jock. lol

Yeah, the “Top Gun” way of aerial warfare is way past its prime. TBH.

I disagree. These videos are needed to inspire young kids. No kid desires to be a no one. They dream to become like their heroes. Even the unnamed spies have to be glamourised. The daal-roti approach is the reason why armed forces personnel aren't respected in our country as it is in most others.

[Singha]

every AF is dominated by a fighter mafia, but the good ones have a strong technical side own do the interaction with OEMs to develop products.
USN is also dominated by carrier and submarine commanders, not much of DDG/transport commanders i guess.
in ww2 it was battleship and carrier admirals.

thing is who does the technical side and how much the jocks are willing to take inputs and listen.

[brar_w]

every AF is dominated by a fighter mafia, but the good ones have a strong technical side own do the interaction with OEMs to develop products.
USN is also dominated by carrier and submarine commanders, not much of DDG/transport commanders i guess.
in ww2 it was battleship and carrier admirals.

thing is who does the technical side and how much the jocks are willing to take inputs and listen.

Fighter aircraft are available in large numbers in most Air Forces and as such a large number of fighter pilots are recruited and moved up the leadership over their service life. That said there needs to be parallel tracks on all levels from acquisition to S&T and enough responsibility given to those leaders so that they don't feel like fighter operations is the only way they can make it to the top few decision making positions. It is always a balance that you have to strike. If you have other talents that set you apart you must have the freedom to pursue those without fear of being left out of leadership positions down the road.

The US side is a bit different because the "Chiefs" don't usually have operational command under the UCC model so power, responsibility and ultimately how much influence you have on decision making is diluted. On the Navy side the Surface Warfare Community probably has the most influence followed by the sub-surface and NAVAIR - It doesn't matter whether most recent CNO's have been submariners..the community is well represented elsewhere. The USAF likes to mix it up a bit with the current CSAF being a fighter jock, his predecessor being an A-10 and fighter pilot and the two CSAF's prior to him were from the Airlift community. But there again the influence is diluted and it can be said that the USAF officer who has the most influence over strategic policy and decision making in the Pentagon and Congress is probably the current STRATCOM commander and not the Chief.

[chetak]

every AF is dominated by a fighter mafia, but the good ones have a strong technical side own do the interaction with OEMs to develop products.
USN is also dominated by carrier and submarine commanders, not much of DDG/transport commanders i guess.
in ww2 it was battleship and carrier admirals.

thing is who does the technical side and how much the jocks are willing to take inputs and listen.

The ameriki navy has a fairly democratic and pluralistic culture in that at lower levels, officers, (up to Lt Cdr levels??) who may thereafter go on to command ships and submarines, or what have you at sea, have been allowed/encouraged to take up/function independently in full fledged appointments/engineering roles at sea thereby giving them a broad based exposure, in-depth knowledge of technical functions, better assimilation technical requirements as well as the deeper understanding that the specialized experience of such roles being to their command functions.

Also, all ameriki test pilots mandatorily acquire a higher engineering degree (like masters??) before they qualify.

certainly, there are cliques and lobbies in any organization.

Just look at your own organizations to see the truth in this statement.

a lot of the people placed in higher command functions everywhere are generalists, leaving their thoughts processes stilted, constricted and limited thereby reducing their usefulness and value.

Just look at our very own gang of baboo(n)s to appreciate the point I am making.

This is also usually why and where politics creeps in and seeks to replace surefooted technical expertise and domain knowledge, both vital in decision making.

[hemant_sai]

Prospect of MMRCA seems more n more irrelevant now.
It will be far better to focus time, money n brains on indiginization.
On curious note, what are chances that India can get complete ToT of Mig29 excluding ToT of radar, engines. We should be allowed to make customised Mig29 without need of any license mechanism. Just one-time cost of ToT and assurance that this Mig29 version won't be exported. Any guess how much Mig will ask for such ToT?
I have not quoted Mig35 due to obvious reasons. So please don't suggest why not Mig35.

[Shekhar Singh]

Prospect of MMRCA seems more n more irrelevant now.
It will be far better to focus time, money n brains on indiginization.
On curious note, what are chances that India can get complete ToT of Mig29 excluding ToT of radar, engines. We should be allowed to make customised Mig29 without need of any license mechanism. Just one-time cost of ToT and assurance that this Mig29 version won't be exported. Any guess how much Mig will ask for such ToT?
I have not quoted Mig35 due to obvious reasons. So please don't suggest why not Mig35.

Which new technology we are expecting to get after complete TOT of Mig29?

[hemant_sai]

Prospect of MMRCA seems more n more irrelevant now.
It will be far better to focus time, money n brains on indiginization.
On curious note, what are chances that India can get complete ToT of Mig29 excluding ToT of radar, engines. We should be allowed to make customised Mig29 without need of any license mechanism. Just one-time cost of ToT and assurance that this Mig29 version won't be exported. Any guess how much Mig will ask for such ToT?
I have not quoted Mig35 due to obvious reasons. So please don't suggest why not Mig35.

Which new technology we are expecting to get after complete TOT of Mig29?

Of course, there may be little to gain from ToT of Mig29 but on same grounds ToT deal will be far cheaper. Other part is to have 2 options of our own as MWF. If Mk2 is single engine option and MTOW is limited below 20T then Indian version of Mig29 will be an parallel option with 2-engine MWF having MTOW above 20T. I would say it is worthy aircraft to have in our arsenal as potent option which we can mold as per our needs of future and without putting exorbitant amount of money.

[Shekhar Singh]

Which new technology we are expecting to get after complete TOT of Mig29?

Of course, there may be little to gain from ToT of Mig29 but on same grounds ToT deal will be far cheaper. Other part is to have 2 options of our own as MWF. If Mk2 is single engine option and MTOW is limited below 20T then Indian version of Mig29 will be an parallel option with 2-engine MWF having MTOW above 20T. I would say it is worthy aircraft to have in our arsenal as potent option which we can mold as per our needs of future and without putting exorbitant amount of money.

If we get mig29 TOT then can we modify it with the technologies developed for Tejas like FBW, Uttam AESA?

[chola]

Prospect of MMRCA seems more n more irrelevant now.
It will be far better to focus time, money n brains on indiginization.
On curious note, what are chances that India can get complete ToT of Mig29 excluding ToT of radar, engines. We should be allowed to make customised Mig29 without need of any license mechanism. Just one-time cost of ToT and assurance that this Mig29 version won't be exported. Any guess how much Mig will ask for such ToT?
I have not quoted Mig35 due to obvious reasons. So please don't suggest why not Mig35.

Hemant, we have “ToT” of the SU-30 where we make 70% of the plane including of the plane. But no rights to alter, create new variants or export.

It would be the same for the MiG-29. The Russians woukd be happy to conclude such a deal.

Every rupee should be put on the Tejas. Our ToTs always turn into subcontracting work onlee never actual “transfer” of technology. The Tejas is our technology.

[hemant_sai]

Prospect of MMRCA seems more n more irrelevant now.
It will be far better to focus time, money n brains on indiginization.
On curious note, what are chances that India can get complete ToT of Mig29 excluding ToT of radar, engines. We should be allowed to make customised Mig29 without need of any license mechanism. Just one-time cost of ToT and assurance that this Mig29 version won't be exported. Any guess how much Mig will ask for such ToT?
I have not quoted Mig35 due to obvious reasons. So please don't suggest why not Mig35.

Hemant, we have “ToT” of the SU-30 where we make 70% of the plane including of the plane. But no rights to alter, create new variants or export.

It would be the same for the MiG-29. The Russians woukd be happy to conclude such a deal.

Every rupee should be put on the Tejas. Our ToTs always turn into subcontracting work onlee never actual “transfer” of technology. The Tejas is our technology.

@Moderators - Sorry for continuing discussion on Mk2 thread, please feel free to move where it is appt.
1) If MMRCA is really cancelled with no possibility of near future G-to-G deals for aircrafts with ruskians, there is more possibility that India can crack the deal for one-time ToT with freedom of customization and no-export. It is possible for Mig29 but not for Mig35 as Mig35 is their export material for this decade.
2) Real question is, If it is possible to get ToT on our terms, is it beneficial or not?

[Rakesh]

Please continue MiG-29 discussions in here and not in the Tejas Mk2 thread. Thank You.

[chola]

@Moderators - Sorry for continuing discussion on Mk2 thread, please feel free to move where it is appt.
1) If MMRCA is really cancelled with no possibility of near future G-to-G deals for aircrafts with ruskians, there is more possibility that India can crack the deal for one-time ToT with freedom of customization and no-export. It is possible for Mig29 but not for Mig35 as Mig35 is their export material for this decade.
2) Real question is, If it is possible to get ToT on our terms, is it beneficial or not?

No, in a nutshell, barring extraordinary circumstances. We have never been able to get full rights to any Russian plane whether it is the MiG-21, MiG-27 or SU-30. Aircraft that we have had built by the hundreds.

We have been able to get exactly this full rights from the Europeans which forms the basis of the Dhruv whose IP we own completely.

[sajaym]

I've been having the below idea for quite some time so I thought I'll share it for discussion.

Proposal - Creation of Integrated Air Command (IAC) for a Leaner & Meaner Airforce

Objectives:

1) Increasing the force projection capabilities of IAF with current aircraft types and quantities.
2) Implementing an IAF version of the 'Integrated Battle Group' concept of the Indian Army.
3) Facilitating faster capital acquistions by reducing the quantity of the acquistions and in smaller installments.
4) Encouraging deployment of indigenous platforms alongside foreign platforms.
5) Encouraging cross training/utilisation of resources.

Procedure:

1) Any squadron (considering 18 units) which has aircraft which are currently not produced in India should be divided into 2 sub-squadrons with 9 units each. Out of those 9 units, 5 should be mothballed and placed in reserve for war/attrition losses. Remaining 4 aircrafts should be further divided into 'detachment squadrons' of 2 aircraft each. Of the detachment squadrons, at any time 1 squadron will stay on at the home base and the other detachment squadron will be deputed to the nearest Integrated Air Command (IAC). Aircraft which are currently being produced in India will have a larger detachment squadron of 4 units (instead of two) and such indigenous detachment squadrons should also be compulsorily road/highway takeoff operations capable.

2) In every state facing the borders at least two or more airbases within 100 kilometres of the border will each be designated as an Integrated Air Command (IAC) and will contain every type of aircraft needed to prosequte a limited air war within it's area of operations. So each northern state will have two or more IACs and southern states will have 1 IAC each. Each IAC typically will have the below assets:

i) 4 X PC 9 or HTT 40 aircraft (armed version)
ii) 4 X BAE HAWK (armed version)
iii) 4 X LCA (all types) (buddy refueling capable)
iv) 2 X MIG 21
v) 2 X MIG 27
vi) 2 X MIG 29
vii) 2 X Jaguar
viii) 2 X Mirage 2000 (buddy refueling capable)
ix) 4 X SU 30 MKI (buddy refueling capable)
x) 2 X DRDO AEWACS or 1 x IL76 AWACS as per availability
xi) 1 X IL 76MD or C-17
xii) 1 X IL 76Midas as per availability
xiii) 2 X AN32 or C-130 (buddy refueling capable)
xiv) 2 X HS748
xv) 2 X Dornier
xvi) 4 X LUH
xvii) 4 X ALH
xviii) 4 X LCH
xix) 2 X Apache
xx) 2 X Chinook
xxi) 2 X SPYDER firing units
xxii) 4 X AAKASH firing units
xxiii) 4 X ZSU Shilka or similar units

3) Full strength squadrons will be based further inland close to existing training commands, BRDs/Factories and specialised institutions like the TACDE/AFTPS/ASTE/SFC. But at any time, detachment squadrons from the full squadrons can be rotated to the IACs.

4) IACs can either prosecute an operation on their own or link up with other IACs which are closer.

5) Ideally, one IAC should be assigned to one similar IBG of the Army and the Navy.

6) In the event that the home base of an IAC has been destroyed, the road/highway takeoff capable detachment squadrons should continue to operate from near that base and the rest of the assets should be moved to the next closest operational IAC.

7) As and when a sub-squadron exhausts it's reserves due to attrition, only the quantity of units needed to replenish the reserves will be purchased through G to G FMS route or foreign surplus purchase route. OR that sub-squadron can be refitted with indigenous aircraft.

8. In case of shortage of space, two or more airbases in the same vicinity can be clubbed into an IAC.

[Rakesh]

An old tweet from March 2015, but interesting info. The youngest Mirage 2000 squadron gets the upgrade first. No 9 Sqn has the youngest lot of aircraft in the Mirage 2000 fleet.

https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 6528410624 ----> Just heard that Indian AF No. 9 Sqn 'Wolfpack' at Gwalior will be first to receive upgraded Mirage 2000I/TI fighters.

[Zynda]

Ukraine/Antonov are pitching An-132D as a replacement for existing An-32. Since 132 is developed in collab with Saudis, I wonder if India wants something beyond ToT (IPR etc.), will it be obliged? If yes, then it would not be a bad option...rope in one of the private biggies to do initial production/assembly and allow them to tinker/improve the design as they see fit.

[JTull]

Admiral, can you please move those pictures to AI thread so we have all relevant info in one place.

[viveks]

Lovely photos Rakesh sir. Great work.

[Rakesh]

Admiral, can you please move those pictures to AI thread so we have all relevant info in one place.

Am I not following forum rules?

Moved! Sorry!!!

Lovely photos Rakesh sir. Great work.

You are welcome. Do not call me Sir please

[ks_sachin]

I've been having the below idea for quite some time so I thought I'll share it for discussion.

Proposal - Creation of Integrated Air Command (IAC) for a Leaner & Meaner Airforce

Objectives:

1) Increasing the force projection capabilities of IAF with current aircraft types and quantities.
2) Implementing an IAF version of the 'Integrated Battle Group' concept of the Indian Army.
3) Facilitating faster capital acquistions by reducing the quantity of the acquistions and in smaller installments.
4) Encouraging deployment of indigenous platforms alongside foreign platforms.
5) Encouraging cross training/utilisation of resources.

1) Are you saying force projection is not good right now?
2) Why? - Why have a IBG for Army and a similar concept for IAF. Why not have a IBG concept which is already combined arms include embedded air assets?
3) How will this help? Please provide examples comparing with the current scenario. You will also spend more...
4) If the ultimate aim is to win a battle then point 4 has no role to play here.
5) What does this mean? Please provide examples.

IBG concept has merit but for a host of different reasons.
Any other air force done something like this.

[manjgu]

on the other hand the reduction in squadron strength does increase pilot to plane ratio? allowing for more utilization?

[sajaym]

1) Are you saying force projection is not good right now?
2) Why? - Why have a IBG for Army and a similar concept for IAF. Why not have a IBG concept which is already combined arms include embedded air assets?
3) How will this help? Please provide examples comparing with the current scenario. You will also spend more...
4) If the ultimate aim is to win a battle then point 4 has no role to play here.
5) What does this mean? Please provide examples.

IBG concept has merit but for a host of different reasons.
Any other air force done something like this.

Sachin, the Indian Airforce has already demonstrated this concept a few days back. I'm just suggesting that they realize it, formalize it, organize around it and actualize it.

Examples below:

1. Look at the numbers and types of aircraft below. Similar to the numbers and types I have suggested in my IAC concept. And all these aircraft participated in a single theatre - Pokhran.

Complete list of 137 aircrafts & helis participating in Vayu Shakti 2019 exercise[/b]

2. In the video, look at the numbers of aircraft attacking any target... they are all doing it in small detachments. You don't see an entire squadron swatting a target do you?

Full video

But the problem in Vayu Shakthi is that it probably took a month for all the participating aircrafts/personnel to assemble in/around Pokhran from their respective home bases. This is what delays our capability to give a small, quick Jhapad to the Pakis... we have to huff, puff, cough and wheez till we have all the assets in place and by the time we are in place... "How's the Josh?"... "GONE, Sir". Whereas, if we have an IAC-like force in place, we can deliver a Jhapad anywhere within a few hours...WHAM! BAM! IN YOUR MUSHARAF MAAM!

Why not have a IBG concept which is already combined arms include embedded air assets?

You're referring to the IA & IAF guys right?... these same guys who've been at each others' throats over a few attack helicopters?

[AdityaM]

Chennai diver found stolen Navy jet, 55 yrs after

On the Sunday of August 12, 1964, the Sea Hawk was taken out without permission by Naval Aircraft Ordnance mechanic A S G ..
who knew how to fly, had intended to return the jet, , but didn’t know how to operate the air brakes and flaps, a ..

[Rakesh]

Nice picture of the first two IAF Mirage 2000s being upgraded at France. Both aircraft have already been delivered to the IAF.

Drag & Drop picture into new window. Serial Numbers - KT201 (Twin Seater) and KF107 (Single Seater)

[Karan M]

Sajay, your proposal is really off-base. Look more at logistics & EOQ of spares, tooling etc and availability of skilled manpower before coming up with IAC etc.

1. Look at the numbers and types of aircraft below. Similar to the numbers and types I have suggested in my IAC concept. And all these aircraft participated in a single theatre - Pokhran.

Because this was a demo. That's all, a firepower demo, intended to showcase all the aircraft types in the AF. That does not mean you take 1-2 of each aircraft type and create some mega airbase with each aircraft represented.

2. In the video, look at the numbers of aircraft attacking any target... they are all doing it in small detachments. You don't see an entire squadron swatting a target do you?

Squadrons exist for a reason. They centralize capabilities, offer the ability to rotate personnel and crew between missions and also offer centralization of training, logistics including munitions and spares. They can be sent to war either in full detachments and flights or smaller units, deployed across 2-3 AFB. That does not mean however, they are always broken up and should be broken up.

But the problem in Vayu Shakthi is that it probably took a month for all the participating aircrafts/personnel to assemble in/around Pokhran from their respective home bases. This is what delays our capability to give a small, quick Jhapad to the Pakis... we have to huff, puff, cough and wheez till we have all the assets in place and by the time we are in place... "How's the Josh?"... "GONE, Sir". Whereas, if we have an IAC-like force in place, we can deliver a Jhapad anywhere within a few hours...WHAM! BAM! IN YOUR MUSHARAF MAAM!

This is, sorry to say, complete whimsy. If the AF so chooses it can deploy & move assets much faster. The timeframes it requires to develop a strong attack against TSP nowhere require a months prep, nor does it require such a multiplicity of types to deploy against TSP.

The set of AB linked across our border with Pak, the ones within are all set to a certain level of capability, defense and offense. Theres a very strong rationale to each AF decision.

First Each AFB has certain aircraft types, based on what their attributes are, what their mission tasking is, what the logistics they require are, and also based on how they can be relocated.

For instance, most of our tactical AB right across the Pak border have MiG-21s, because these are limited range CAP and strike capable aircraft, but at the same time capable of quick spool up and intercept. The Su-30s were initially deployed much deeper into India because they could range further & also, they stay out of prying eyes of PAF AEW&C when training in peacetime. Of late, as aircraft drawdown occured, IAF Su-30s have been deployed nearer to the border but baseline precautions remain.

IAF operates on the basis of commands, and then looks at capabilities. WAC, EAC etc all will have capabilities at their disposal spread across a certain number of AB, again avoiding concentration risk wherever possible, pooling resources where necessary.

Point is AF is not some org which just randomly allocates aircraft.

Second is centralization. Do you understand the costs involved in maintaining & operating state of the art fighters?
This is the reason the AF pools aircraft of a certain type at each AB as a node. Gwalior operates Mirage 2000s for a reason. Ditto, why Su-30s were initially stood up at Lohegaon. This is where we standardized logistics for the type.

Point is this is a very very complex and expensive affair. Your proposal is too whimsical. Taking 1-2 aircraft of each type and creating a mini-AF replica at each airbase. The cost of replicating the maint & logistics infra at each base would it itself bankrupt the AF and for what?

Concentration of force is the third point. This also matters. If a strike package heads for an AF tactical base, it has a mix of 1-2 planes of each type, and it won't have the assets to sufficiently defend itself either. This is the reason AF actually maintains entire squadrons at certain bases. These aircraft can either be deployed as detachments if need be OR be based out of that base itself. IAF is now stressing on multirole capabilities across aircraft, because this way it need not mix and match different fleets for the same requirement.

So I hope you understand why your proposal is unworkable.

[Austin]

Does the Air Force have a plan to take out Pakistan's tactical nuclear weapons?

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/i ... 2017-10-06

HIGHLIGHTS

IAF can locate, fix targets, including nuclear weapons, in Pakistan: Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa.
Dhanoa was responding to a query about Pakistan's tactical nukes.
Dhanoa's comments may have been a hint about the Nasr missile system.



@SandeepUnnithan
Following Following @SandeepUnnithan
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Buried in the #VayuShakti2019

[Singha]

the 1 sample of the raytheon sentinel GMTI radar we are planning to buy from US and 4 more of some hybrid US-India domestic fit are the assets that may permit more high discrimination id of TEL vehicles than fighter radars in SAR mode.

but overall it is difficult to locate and track such targets once they get moving as the scuds in iraq proved, even with total air dominance.

[Austin]

NEWSBREAK: Turbulence Ends, India Set To Acquire U.S. ISTAR Jet, 4 More With Indian Sensors

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2019/02 ... nsors.html

[Austin]

the 1 sample of the raytheon sentinel GMTI radar we are planning to buy from US and 4 more of some hybrid US-India domestic fit are the assets that may permit more high discrimination id of TEL vehicles than fighter radars in SAR mode.

but overall it is difficult to locate and track such targets once they get moving as the scuds in iraq proved, even with total air dominance.

Yes , PA can have for every 1 TEL with Nuclear Weapons , 5 Real Decoys TEL both on the move and 5 more static inflatable and tracking and targeting in real time ( i.e before launch ) can be a night mare even if we dominate the Air

Unless we have real intel that can point to the exact TEL which carries Nukes and have weapons to target all in real time as these TEL will be in move it will be tough nut ,now you add say 20 TEL with decoys etc and all moving perhaps even camouflaged

[Karan M]

Have to doff my hat to these guys for knowing exactly what we are looking for. Talios likely because Mirage 2000 upg dont interface well with Litening, mini UAS for SF, Starstreak because they anticipate VSHORAD deal may be cancelled over Igla controversy... their market intell is second to none.

https://bharatshakti.in/thales-showcasi ... -in-india/

ER: At Aero India this year, Thales will showcase its solutions developed in India through its supply chain partnerships with the local industry – supporting the ‘Make in India’ initiative of the government. It will also present the latest advancements in its capabilities that seek to serve the interests of the Indian Air Force and also Ministry of Civil Aviation. Thales stand AB 2.21 will bring alive a range of solutions across aero civil and defence domains through special immersive digital experiences. Some of the demos at the stand will include optronic pod TALIOS, latest generation mini-UAS Spy’Ranger, high velocity missile STARStreak, rockets and a range of radio communication products, among others.

[Khalsa]

Can we please consolidate
Indian Air Force News and Discussion
AND
Indian Aerospace News and Discussion.

There is a massive overlap.

[darshhan]

the 1 sample of the raytheon sentinel GMTI radar we are planning to buy from US and 4 more of some hybrid US-India domestic fit are the assets that may permit more high discrimination id of TEL vehicles than fighter radars in SAR mode.

but overall it is difficult to locate and track such targets once they get moving as the scuds in iraq proved, even with total air dominance.

Singha ji, True. However it is almost 30 years since Gulf war took place. Since then there has been an exponential increase in the sensors, UAVs, predictive algorithms and computational capability. So the technological part has progressed a lot.

But then the critical part which will make the difference is Humint. This task requires both effective and adequate human intelligence assets plus highly capable special forces. Ofcourse backed by thousands of analysts pouring through live feeds from UAVs, satellites and other sensors.

[nam]

It has to be combination of tracking on the ground and on air. If you find any on the ground, take them out.

Then you need to able to track them in the air and ability to take it out. The missiles cannot hide in the air.

Every expensive proposition.

The only perfect solution is invade and capture the adversary country.

[Austin]

How many Mig-21 Squadron does the IAF has today and how many are those Bison ?

[Singha]

List of active Indian military aircraft
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... y_aircraft

we can bring about 500 fighter/bombers + 114 Bisons into the fight = 614 and assuming a wartime availability of around 65-70% on fleetwide basis you can expect around 400 a/c to be flyable any given day over a 2-3 week war.

we also have 75 dhruv for logistics and more than 200 Mi17. army has another 145 dhruvs. total rudras albeit armed with cannons stands around 30 plus 17 hinds.

we have between 66-100 Hawks (which played CAS role in vayushakti) and 7 mi2k and 26 jags which are 2 seater and can surely perform the LGB role.

the Paks can nowhere match any of these numbers, esp the long reach of the 250 sukhois.

[Austin]

We cant deploy that kind of numbers because we have huge borders and we need these aircraft in North East and south and in between in good numbers as deterrent.

What we need is decent numbers but with high operational tempo , As Russians have proved in Syrian war you can generate enormous amount of sorties with small fleet of 45-50 fighters if there is high availability along with high operational tempo.

A fleet of 80 fighter mix of Su ,M2K, Mig-29 and Jags can do the job very effectively plus Bison can AD sortie within our airspace for 24-48 hours high sortie operation in what IAF has called target rich environment , Plus you have Brahmos and other systems.

I am looking for answers what if some one on the other side fires dozens of Gauri,Shaheen etc with conventional warhead on key targets inside India for shock and awe effect ?

Do we have some initial operational deployment of PAD/AAD system or Barak variant to deal with cruise and BM ?

[Karan M]

Gagan Shakti, cough cough.

[Singha]

aircraft are the easiest things to move around. its not like they need to stand garrison watch in Tezpur while a war is ongoing in west.

[Manish_P]

With NASA? The paltry (relatively speaking) project cost makes it seem more likely that it is more of a software type project, which will perhaps collate real-time data from multiple sources (satellites, aircraft etc) to form an integrated picture. The 'find human presence even under fog and snow' is very interesting

Even The Forests Can’t Protect You: IAF, NASA Come Together To Build First-Of-Its-Kind Aerial Surveillance System

Indian Air Force (IAF) has roped in one of NASA’s top scientists Dr Kumar Krishen to build an aerial surveillance system to detect suspicious movements under dense forest cover along India’s long international borders, as per reports.

“This is a unique patent application, which will help detect or identify the presence of a human below trees, dense foliage, shrubs or inside a structure, whether it is day or night. It can detect human presence from air even if there a cloud cover, dense fog or snow cover,” said Dr Krishen, explained the Indian-origin lead technologist at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA).

The Rs 13 crore project will be able to process data gathered from aerial sources, thereby helping researchers warn field security forces of “unwanted” human presence in the area, their strength and location.

“For the first time, we will be having multi-sensor data fusion that will help identify an adversary. We have a mandate to change the way we fight the war. The IAF is willing to wait for a couple of years to reap the benefits. Some agencies in India tried to work on the technology, but have not succeeded,” said a source in the report.

[manjgu]

Cruise missile should be taken out by Spyder/Aakash/radar directed AD guns..... BM by PAD/AAD

[Rakesh]

No more discussions on Indian Air Force strikes on Balakot and the Pakistan Air Force response in this thread.

Please refer to the Operation Balakot: News and Discussion thread for that.