Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
Locked
Gyan
BRFite
Posts: 1596
Joined: 26 Aug 2016 19:14

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Gyan »

I feel we should order one more squadron of LCA MKI FOC to provide for any delay in LCA MKIA

Also we should go in for 21+12Su30MKI rather than mix of Mig-29s & Su-30s
nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9102
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by nachiket »

Kartik wrote: And the Mirages too. Till 2035 at least. The way I see it, if all goes according to plan (and I’m not counting 2 more Rafale squadrons or the AMCA), the IAF will have ~40 squadrons in 2035, but with 5-6 squadrons close to retiring (MiG-29UPG and Mirage-2000I). But with 2 possible lines of MRCA and MWF, the IAF will have been able to place orders for 5-6 squadrons, possibly split between the 2 types.
While I have no doubt that the Mirage airframes will last till then I am less certain about their engines. The Mirage upgrade did not include an engine replacement unlike for the Mig-29s. Those engines will be getting awfully long in the tooth by then and it is a single engined aircraft to compound matters. I am guessing no replacements are available either since the M53 is long out of production. We might have to buy retiring M2k's from other forces for cannibalization in the mid-late 2020's.
Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8428
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Indranil »

^^^ Engine upgrades and engine replacement are two different things. As you said, the French don't have an engine to upgrade to. Albeit the engines of Mirage 2000 will be "replaced". Critical engine parts typically have 1/3rd the lifetime of the aircraft.
Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5722
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Kartik »

Was watching the Indian Air Force Parade on Air Force Day and saw the No.9 Wolfpack Squadron receiving Unit Citation. Discovered that it was converted into the IAF's first Aggressor unit, on 1 September, 2016. They fly Mirage-2000s and their task is to study the enemy's tactics and emulate them and impart training to other units to acquaint them with the enemy's tactics. They were also the squadron that carried out the Balakot strikes with the Mirage-2000s.
MeshaVishwas
BRFite
Posts: 869
Joined: 16 Feb 2019 17:20

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by MeshaVishwas »

Okay the Avenger formation was epic but the star of the show remains the Tejas.
I thought that the Harvard flight was also superb.
Camerawork still needs improvement though.
SKAT and Sarang also put up an impressive show.
The Thrishul formation had a bit of an issue I believe.Rambha was unable to dispense flares on cue.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18274
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/VishnuNDTV/status/1 ... 6121198593 ---> A unit citation for No 9 Squadron, Indian Air Force, "Wolfpack," the same unit that flew the Balakot operation on Mirage 2000s. Seen here - the Commanding Officer receiving the honour.

Image
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20773
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Karan M »

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 496516.cms
The Mirages were flown by Squadron Leader Bhujadey, Group Captain P. Raj and Wing Commander Basoya while the Su-30s were piloted by Wing Commander K.P. Singh and Squadron Leader Parshuram.
Same two gents who held off 4x their number on Feb 27th.
manjgu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2615
Joined: 11 Aug 2006 10:33

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by manjgu »

Karan M wrote:https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 496516.cms
The Mirages were flown by Squadron Leader Bhujadey, Group Captain P. Raj and Wing Commander Basoya while the Su-30s were piloted by Wing Commander K.P. Singh and Squadron Leader Parshuram.
Same two gents who held off 4x their number on Feb 27th.
sorry...the officer is Gp Capt Hansel Sequeria (OC, Wolfpacks)... he was involved with planning not actually flying.
manjgu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2615
Joined: 11 Aug 2006 10:33

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by manjgu »

the other guy is the unit SNCO ..the maintenance chap. i think its AirCdme hansel not Gp capt. Hansel is one officer to watch out as a potential high flyer in AF.
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20773
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Karan M »

What are you referring to?

I am talking about the Su-30 pilots who faced off against 8 Vipers.
manjgu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2615
Joined: 11 Aug 2006 10:33

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by manjgu »

ooo.. i thought u are talking about the above posted pic...
srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5247
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by srai »

Image
Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14332
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Aditya_V »

Does that indicate that these were the 5 fighters which detered the PAF till the Mig 21's on ORP came onto the scene on 27 Feb 19 morning, 3 upgrade Mirages and 2 Su 30 MKI's?
Kashi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3671
Joined: 06 May 2011 13:53

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Kashi »

Aditya_V wrote:Does that indicate that these were the 5 fighters which detered the PAF till the Mig 21's on ORP came onto the scene on 27 Feb 19 morning, 3 upgrade Mirages and 2 Su 30 MKI's?
I thought there were 4 aircraft - 2 x SU 30MKI + 2 x Mirage 2000.
Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14332
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Aditya_V »

Thats what I thought but seeing this formation of 3 Upgraded M-2000's (non upgraded ones were used in Balakot strike) and 2 Su 30 MKI's made me ask the question?
rohitvats
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7830
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Location: Jatland

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by rohitvats »

^^^As per reliable Twitter accounts, these are non-upgraded Mirage-2000.
sajaym
BRFite
Posts: 315
Joined: 04 Feb 2019 09:11

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by sajaym »

In this pic the Su-30s almost look like some alien spaceships. I think that on 27th Feb one of the Su-30s must have made some extreme maneuver using thrust vectoring and KOE flying, to avoid the AMRAAMs fired by the Pakis. And this might have caused the Su-30 to disappear from the Paki fighter and AWACs radar screens. Only this scenario seems to explain the confidence with which Paki birathers are claiming an Su-30 kill all over the internet.
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20773
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Karan M »

This guy is a pathetic attention seeker, who is a political opponent of the current GOI. The amount of time spent in rebutting BS is 100x the time taken to create it.
Vidur
BRFite
Posts: 309
Joined: 20 Aug 2017 18:57

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Vidur »

manjgu wrote:the other guy is the unit SNCO ..the maintenance chap. i think its Air Cdme hansel not Gp Capt. Hansel is one officer to watch out as a potential high flyer in AF.
No the CO getting the award is a Gp Capt. Notice the 4 stripes. Air Cmde has one thick stripe. This information is kind courtesy of 'long hours' of training in reading stripes from a good friend in Air HQ . Reading army ranks is easy as they are same as police but I always struggled with IAF and Navy. So one day I invited him for dinner and broached the issue after the first round of drinks and snacks.
nam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4712
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by nam »

sajaym wrote:
In this pic the Su-30s almost look like some alien spaceships. I think that on 27th Feb one of the Su-30s must have made some extreme maneuver using thrust vectoring and KOE flying, to avoid the AMRAAMs fired by the Pakis. And this might have caused the Su-30 to disappear from the Paki fighter and AWACs radar screens. Only this scenario seems to explain the confidence with which Paki birathers are claiming an Su-30 kill all over the internet.

I guess one way is to dive down towards the mountains. This would probably cause the Su30 to disappear from F16 radars, masked by the mountain clutter. This means no MCU for the Aim120 that was fired.
Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5722
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Kartik »

rohitvats wrote:^^^As per reliable Twitter accounts, these are non-upgraded Mirage-2000.
the non-upgraded Mirage-2000H have a black radome. Very easy to tell the upgraded Mirages apart from the non upgraded ones. The 3 Mirages in the picture with the 2 Su-30MKIs are upgraded Mirage-2000Is. So it does appear that 3 Mirage-2000s and 2 Su-30MKIs were involved in foiling the PAF strike formation missions.
MeshaVishwas
BRFite
Posts: 869
Joined: 16 Feb 2019 17:20

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by MeshaVishwas »

Saar, I think RV Saar is right.
Check out the replies to this tweet:
https://twitter.com/joe_sameer/status/1 ... 16129?s=19
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18274
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Rakesh »

DEMYSTIFYING THE ANTI-ACCESS/AREA DENIAL (A2/AD) THREAT
https://medium.com/@sameerjoshi73/demys ... ed26ae8b9e
10 April 2019

By Sameer Joshi - The author is an former fighter pilot with extensive experience on the Mirage 2000 and MiG 21 aircraft of the IAF. He has seen combat in the 1999 Indo Pak Kargil conflict. He writes on military subjects and his article on the Air War in Syria, won the best military aviation submission at the 2017 Paris Airshow.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18274
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/indiandefence11/sta ... 9152523264 ---> Prior to Mirage-2000, Indian Air Force also evaluated Mirage F1 under Air Marshal Prithi Singh who later evaluated the Mirage-2000 Prototype-4 at Istres in Air-to-Ground and Air-to-Air Configurations.

Image
Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10033
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Post by Mort Walker »

nachiket wrote:I hate it whenever this 114 number comes up. There is no way we can afford 114 Rafales. And the thought of buying yet another type just makes me want to bang my head against a wall.
If 78 more Rafales are purchased, given Dassault’s production capabilities and domestic manufacturing capability, it won’t be until 2030 until all 114 Rafales are operational. So the cost can be amortized over 10 years, but India will have given a foreign country nearly $30 billion which can create many jobs within India and create a lot of expertise. IMHO, the Rafale should have been dropped and LCA Tejas expedited. For that amount of money over 300 variants of the Tejas could have been procured and it would have pushed India’s GDP upward.
LakshmanPST
BRFite
Posts: 673
Joined: 05 Apr 2019 18:23

Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Post by LakshmanPST »

ramana wrote: Buried in this is the 36 planes need for special delivery.
So NaMo bought only those in first tranche as that's non -negotiable for triad.
So, the 36 jets bought now are bought for mainly nuke delivery...?
Manish_Sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5128
Joined: 07 Sep 2009 16:17

Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Post by Manish_Sharma »

Actually 36 Rafale bought at this price is a steal, even Brazil paid 4.68 billion in 2015 to by single engine grippen fighter.

Now imagine how much f16 or grippen etc. will cost with military Inflation in 2025 - 26

114 mrca with ToT for production seems unaffordable. Specifically twin engine 4.75 gen Rafale. If Dassault sets up its own line seems 150 billion dollars project.
Haridas
BRFite
Posts: 879
Joined: 26 Dec 2017 07:53

Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Post by Haridas »

venkat_r wrote:.....Big change in IAF saying no more foreign fighters. It is important to keep considerable edge over adversaries, cannot allow PAF to even think of doing what it did earlier this year, not only the numbers but the technical edge has to be significant.
IAF told that India can't have the airforce that even rich countries now find difficult to flaunt.

Here is what our means are, and now live within the limit and make best use of what we can afford.

Flying above cloud nine, IAF crashed into ceiling of reality ... ouch !
Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17168
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Post by Rahul M »

^^^
That's grossly unfair to the IAF. All they had asked for was 125 M2K, way back in 2001. Given that the LCA was still years away and the earlier MiG s were getting long in the tooth, this was an entirely rational quest to maintain IAF's combat potential at a reasonable cost.
It is hardly their fault that the babucracy converted that quest into a 2 decades long circus to choose an aircraft we can't afford.
kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6278
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Post by kit »

Haridas wrote:
venkat_r wrote:.....Big change in IAF saying no more foreign fighters. It is important to keep considerable edge over adversaries, cannot allow PAF to even think of doing what it did earlier this year, not only the numbers but the technical edge has to be significant.
IAF told that India can't have the airforce that even rich countries now find difficult to flaunt.

Here is what our means are, and now live within the limit and make best use of what we can afford.

Flying above cloud nine, IAF crashed into ceiling of reality ... ouch !
I think India can afford a large and capable airforce that is made in India with all its ecosystem, what it can't afford to do is purchase an airforce that is mostly made abroad.

The only time it happened was the Soviets granted loans in rupees and at subsidised rates., all those planes are now on the way out ., and the Soviets are gone.It probably was not a good thing retrospectively as it hindered India's progress in aerospace.
viveks
BRFite
Posts: 341
Joined: 17 Nov 2004 06:01

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by viveks »

What a shot man. Lovely angle and placement.
brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10694
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Post by brar_w »

Manish_Sharma wrote:Actually 36 Rafale bought at this price is a steal, even Brazil paid 4.68 billion in 2015 to by single engine grippen fighter.
Best to avoid an apples to oranges comparison. Brazil’s intentions with its fighter procurement program were much different and it is almost a certainty that had we seen the same data on a Rafael offer it would have been much higher (which their MOD even hinted at). Like the IAF, they too demanded about a $1 billion in specific user defined capabilities ( that don’t scale on a per unit basis) but they also wanted local industry involvement and production of nearly half of the aircraft from the first order in Brazil with the infrastructure established for it being used for all Brazilian follow on orders ( overall demand is in excess of 100 aircraft ) and potentially even foreign sales in LA. I think their defense officials have repeatedly said that the Saab offer was the lowest cost for what they wanted but regardless they could have had a much cheaper aircraft had they asked for no specific capabilities and accepted delivered straight out of Sweden. Instead, they’ve set up a base now to go and buy more aircraft next decade and beyond as and when their needs and financial capabilities align. Rafale, though more capable, won’t be able to compete head to head with the Gripen on acquisition or sustainment cost so it depends what someone is looking for..
Vivek K
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2931
Joined: 15 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Post by Vivek K »

Rahul M wrote:^^^
That's grossly unfair to the IAF. All they had asked for was 125 M2K, way back in 2001. Given that the LCA was still years away and the earlier MiG s were getting long in the tooth, this was an entirely rational quest to maintain IAF's combat potential at a reasonable cost.
It is hardly their fault that the babucracy converted that quest into a 2 decades long circus to choose an aircraft we can't afford.
Rahul ji - that is fair. But then why not pressure for the Qatari Mirages at least then? Of course the slowness of a corrupt system behaving like a parasite to procurements came in the way of the M2K purchase. IAF had built up facilities for 150 M2Ks. They should have forced this outcome- hindsight is easy though.
Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5722
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Kartik »

MeshaVishwas wrote:Saar, I think RV Saar is right.
Check out the replies to this tweet:
https://twitter.com/joe_sameer/status/1 ... 16129?s=19
I don't think so. the radome color indicates the radar on the jet. the earlier RDI radars had the black radome whereas when the RDY-3 on the Mirage-2000I was installed, the radome color changed to grey.
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20773
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Karan M »

Yeah so the Mirages in this avenger formation are basically non upgrades and were the Spice, CM carriers.
nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9102
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Post by nachiket »

Vivek K wrote:
Rahul M wrote:^^^
That's grossly unfair to the IAF. All they had asked for was 125 M2K, way back in 2001. Given that the LCA was still years away and the earlier MiG s were getting long in the tooth, this was an entirely rational quest to maintain IAF's combat potential at a reasonable cost.
It is hardly their fault that the babucracy converted that quest into a 2 decades long circus to choose an aircraft we can't afford.
Rahul ji - that is fair. But then why not pressure for the Qatari Mirages at least then? Of course the slowness of a corrupt system behaving like a parasite to procurements came in the way of the M2K purchase. IAF had built up facilities for 150 M2Ks. They should have forced this outcome- hindsight is easy though.
How is the IAF supposed to force the outcome when the decision making power rests with MoD?
srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5247
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by srai »

^^^
It’s not as black or white type as both are alluding to. At various stages of procurement, each has a prime role in making a decision. One area that the IAF has control over is the specs and quantities it requires. Whereas GoI ministries (MoD, MoF and various committees) are primarily in control over fund allocation.
Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5722
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Kartik »

Karan M wrote:Yeah so the Mirages in this avenger formation are basically non upgrades and were the Spice, CM carriers.
What could have happened is that they may have been upgraded since the Feb 26th mission.

But the Avenger formation was the formation of Su-30MKI and Mirage-2000I fighters right? No.9 Wolfpack squadron might have had a mix of upgraded and non-upgraded fighters..the non-upgraded ones were used as Spice-2000 carriers, whereas the upgraded Mirage-2000Is were used for BARCAP missions the day after.
Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5722
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Post by Kartik »

LakshmanPST wrote:
ramana wrote: Buried in this is the 36 planes need for special delivery.
So NaMo bought only those in first tranche as that's non -negotiable for triad.
So, the 36 jets bought now are bought for mainly nuke delivery...?
As long as the Mirage-2000 is in our fleet, it is the primary nuke delivery platform. I don't expect that will change any time in the 2020s. The Rafale brings a lot more to the table than just a strategic nuke delivery capability.
Locked