Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

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shiv
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shiv » 10 Dec 2017 20:31

srai wrote:^^^
When PAF got their F-16s, the IAF/India did a reactionary purchase (Soviets offered) of MiG-23s for bartered goods. This was followed in quick succession by Mirage-2000s in 1982/83. But it required FOREX which India had was limited. Then a few years later India got MiG-29s in 1986 for bananas/bartered goods. All of these purchases were because US gifted PAF with F-16s. That legacy lives on.

From what I have heard MiG 23 was the price for getting Mig 29

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 10 Dec 2017 20:53

Shiv , The SU did not disclose the existence of Mig-29 it only came with the proposal when India purchased the Mirages as counter offer , till then Mig-29 was only operational within SU , India was the first country outside SU/Warsaw to operate the Mig-29.

Mig-23 was a temporary buy till better/equal options were available in terms of Mirages which was under flight test program and later Mig-29, For that matter India was the first export country to buy Mirage-2000

Hind Sight is 20-20 but we should have opted for lic production of Mirages or Mig-29 in late 80's or early 90's would have saved a lot of trouble for IAF in terms of Inventory Management and getting rid of 21 at the earliest . For its era the F-16 and Mirages were the best mass produced Single Engine Fighter specially the former.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shiv » 10 Dec 2017 21:49

^^In 1984-85 the break up of the USSR was still a few years away. I was working in Great Yarmouth - a place on the eastern tip of the English coast in Norfolk. There used to be some wild Christmas parties and one of the nurses had a sister who was a radar operator in an east coast station. I recall having a really interesting conversation with her listing the western/Russian mix of IAF aircraft - with MiG 21s and 23s operating side by side with Jaguars, Canberras and Hunters. She was fascinated because the MiGs were the "enemy" that they would look out for from Eastern Europe and scramble jets to intercept them.

The cold war had a huge effect on our choice of weaponry and allowed us to be screwed from every side.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby srai » 11 Dec 2017 01:38

shiv wrote:
srai wrote:^^^
When PAF got their F-16s, the IAF/India did a reactionary purchase (Soviets offered) of MiG-23s for bartered goods. This was followed in quick succession by Mirage-2000s in 1982/83. But it required FOREX which India had was limited. Then a few years later India got MiG-29s in 1986 for bananas/bartered goods. All of these purchases were because US gifted PAF with F-16s. That legacy lives on.

From what I have heard MiG 23 was the price for getting Mig 29

A small titbit I read a long ago was that the IAF got the MiG-23s in numbers quickly, but they didn't have a budget to operate them leading to very low servicibility rates.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby nachiket » 11 Dec 2017 02:27

Rahul M wrote:
shaun wrote:Ruski sahab aka Philip , please share with us the technology that went in for Baaz upgrade , how those technology is superior to the upgrades that went in Vajra ?? Rather then posting some translated cyrillic scripts ,answering the above question will enlighten us and enrich this thread.

I had a detailed article on this back in 2012.
http://brfrahulm.blogspot.in/2012/01/fu ... grade.html

note. not saying anything about the baaz vs vajra argument tho'. :wink:

Wow. I can't believe I had missed this excellent piece by Rahul.

Has it since been confirmed that the original HMCS has been replaced with the Topsight-E?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby fanne » 11 Dec 2017 03:53

did they not use fly by wire in the upgrade? Does not Mig29K has one?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Cosmo_R » 11 Dec 2017 04:14

shiv wrote:^^In 1984-85 the break up of the USSR was still a few years away. I was working in Great Yarmouth - a place on the eastern tip of the English coast in Norfolk. There used to be some wild Christmas parties and one of the nurses had a sister who was a radar operator in an east coast station. I recall having a really interesting conversation with her listing the western/Russian mix of IAF aircraft - with MiG 21s and 23s operating side by side with Jaguars, Canberras and Hunters. She was fascinated because the MiGs were the "enemy" that they would look out for from Eastern Europe and scramble jets to intercept them.

The cold war had a huge effect on our choice of weaponry and allowed us to be screwed from every side.


'wild Christmas parties, nurses, really interesting conversation regarding combat aircraft'. Somehow, this does not 'gel'. Is there a subtext we should be looking for? :)

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shiv » 11 Dec 2017 05:30

Cosmo_R wrote:'wild Christmas parties, nurses, really interesting conversation regarding combat aircraft'. Somehow, this does not 'gel'. Is there a subtext we should be looking for? :)

You mean you can't see any connection between the Norfolk broads and birds?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 11 Dec 2017 05:33

As was done by the IAF some time ago- when they had both legacy M2Ks and MIG-29s in service, a contest was held to see which aircraft was the better fighter.It surprised many that the MIG was the victor again and again .(AM Masand in Vayu).NATO also found out that its E.German MIG-29s were better than its F-16s. The same internal contest should be held again,to evaluate the upgrades of both as it would also give the IAF a clearer perspective of how best to use these multi-role birds.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby srai » 11 Dec 2017 07:24

Philip wrote:As was done by the IAF some time ago- when they had both legacy M2Ks and MIG-29s in service, a contest was held to see which aircraft was the better fighter.It surprised many that the MIG was the victor again and again .(AM Masand in Vayu).NATO also found out that its E.German MIG-29s were better than its F-16s. The same internal contest should be held again,to evaluate the upgrades of both as it would also give the IAF a clearer perspective of how best to use these multi-role birds.

Tactics plays an important role. One has to make use of platform strengths against opponent's weaknesses. That's where IAF's TADCE and continual cross-platform and international training helps.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Cosmo_R » 11 Dec 2017 07:32

shiv wrote:
Cosmo_R wrote:'wild Christmas parties, nurses, really interesting conversation regarding combat aircraft'. Somehow, this does not 'gel'. Is there a subtext we should be looking for? :)

You mean you can't see any connection between the Norfolk broads and birds?


Age dims the spread. In my dotage I thought it was something like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myIB1TrPpTE

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shaun » 11 Dec 2017 07:53

Philip wrote:As was done by the IAF some time ago- when they had both legacy M2Ks and MIG-29s in service, a contest was held to see which aircraft was the better fighter.It surprised many that the MIG was the victor again and again .(AM Masand in Vayu).NATO also found out that its E.German MIG-29s were better than its F-16s. The same internal contest should be held again,to evaluate the upgrades of both as it would also give the IAF a clearer perspective of how best to use these multi-role birds.

The same broken record again. Internal contest we're already held , mig29 with it's variant kicked out and Vajra have showed it's mettle in kargil war. We went for Baaz upgrade because of residual life left in them , depleted squadron level and the Panthers are just the extension of ruski flat top .

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 11 Dec 2017 08:48

Philip, Me-262 was a awesome when it flew. Mig 29 with crappy engine was really not really F16 comparable .

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Indranil » 11 Dec 2017 09:26

Philip wrote:As was done by the IAF some time ago- when they had both legacy M2Ks and MIG-29s in service, a contest was held to see which aircraft was the better fighter.It surprised many that the MIG was the victor again and again .(AM Masand in Vayu).NATO also found out that its E.German MIG-29s were better than its F-16s. The same internal contest should be held again,to evaluate the upgrades of both as it would also give the IAF a clearer perspective of how best to use these multi-role birds.

Mig-29s vs M2k is correct. Mig-29s vs F-16 is not correct. Mig-29s are more agile. But they had super short legs. So the Europeans advised their pilots to draw out the battles to gain the upper hand.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shiv » 11 Dec 2017 10:17

IAF pilots who have flown agile and exciting aircraft have always loved and praised their capabilities. But there is a world outside of that in terms of maintenance, uptime, spare requirements, fuel costs etc - much of which we don't get to hear about. In general the armed forces keep mum about any information that should not be spread around. So an agile aircraft that wins every time is given that word of praise and nothing else is said.

I don't recall if I posted a passage from the MiG 21 history book where pilots would zoom up to 60,000 feet and then coast down feeling the weightlessness on descent while watching the stars in broad daylight. Now which young man would not love to do that?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ks_sachin » 11 Dec 2017 10:21

shiv wrote:IAF pilots who have flown agile and exciting aircraft have always loved and praised their capabilities. But there is a world outside of that in terms of maintenance, uptime, spare requirements, fuel costs etc - much of which we don't get to hear about. In general the armed forces keep mum about any information that should not be spread around. So an agile aircraft that wins every time is given that word of praise and nothing else is said.

I don't recall if I posted a passage from the MiG 21 history book where pilots would zoom up to 60,000 feet and then coast down feeling the weightlessness on descent while watching the stars in broad daylight. Now which young man would not love to do that?


Well said Sir.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Manish_P » 11 Dec 2017 11:18

shiv wrote:The cold war had a huge effect on our choice of weaponry and allowed us to be screwed from every side.


:rotfl:

Classic

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby nachiket » 12 Dec 2017 05:48

shiv wrote:IAF pilots who have flown agile and exciting aircraft have always loved and praised their capabilities. But there is a world outside of that in terms of maintenance, uptime, spare requirements, fuel costs etc - much of which we don't get to hear about. In general the armed forces keep mum about any information that should not be spread around. So an agile aircraft that wins every time is given that word of praise and nothing else is said.

Exactly! Despite the Mig-29 proving itself to be more maneuverable and agile than the M2k, the IAF still asked for 126 M2k's when they realized a need for more medium category fighters. The decade of the 90's wasn't kind to the Mig-29s overall perception in the IAF due to the reliability and spares issues. And then the M2k proved its versatility in Kargil as well.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Cain Marko » 12 Dec 2017 05:50

The upgraded fulcrum is no slouch esp. With a clear advantage thanks to thrust, range and lack of irst on the vajra, I think the Mig upgrade was solid bang for the buck. I'd think a2a the baaz retains its advantage, bvr and wvr. a2g, the payload advantage on the M2K has also been reduced thanks to the increased payload on the baaz. The one achilles heel on the Mirage remains. ..the puny, heavy and gas guzzling engine.

Is the EW set so much better than the one on the fulcrum with the Electronica input? Hard to say.

All in all, the French maintain their title as a fancy and pricey bunch.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 12 Dec 2017 06:02

Shiv said

The cold war had a huge effect on our choice of weaponry and allowed us to be screwed from every side.


It didn't help that we were deluded duffers wanting to be cheated by foreigners.

Case in point HF24. All it needed was $10m to get the engine developed.

That was cheaper than redesign. But went and got Jaguar over Viggen and Mirage F1.
Then went and got M2k. Paid for the mfg rights but ran to get cut prices Mug 29s.
And found out how good the M2K was and wanted more almost 15 years later after Kargil. Sorry line closed.
UPS comes up with a way to scam the nation eith MMRCA process.

Now we are here.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby nachiket » 12 Dec 2017 06:07

ramana wrote:Then went and got M2k. Paid for the mfg rights but ran to get cut prices Mug 29s.
And found out how good the M2K was and wanted more almost 15 years later after Kargil. Sorry line closed.
UPS comes up with a way to scam the nation eith MMRCA process.

Now we are here.

Worse than that Ramana saar. The M2k line wasn't closed at the time. It closed down after we decided on going the MRCA open tender route. The French knew how long it would take and there was no guarantee we would choose the M2k. They also saw their chance to sell us the much more expensive Rafale. And got their wish. :roll:

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chetak » 12 Dec 2017 10:23

Bidding adieu to a mighty warrior

Pankaja Srinivasan DECEMBER 11, 2017

Image

Life saviour: A file photo of an Mi-8 helicopter airlifting a person in Raichur, Karnataka. AFP

The IAF is phasing out the Mi-8 helicopters

“It was probably the aircraft that was shot at the most,” says Air Marshal P.P. Rajkumar about the Mi-8 helicopter. He has logged more than 3,000 hours on the aircraft and has no hesitation in declaring that the most-produced helicopter in the world is a colossus.

The Mi-8 covered itself in glory and bullet wounds in the Siachen, during the IPKF operations in Sri Lanka and a UN Mission in Congo, besides coming under fire from insurgents in northeastern India. It has been part of several scientific expeditions to Antarctica. Now it is being phased out.

“The emotional bond we forged with the Mi-8 (also called Pratap in the IAF) was strong. Most of us started flying it in our 20s and probably associated more with the helicopter than with anyone else,” says Rajkumar. He knows engineers who remember the numbers of the aircraft they worked on even today long after they have forgotten their colleagues’ names.

Arrived in crates

The Mi-8s were inducted into the IAF in 1972 when they arrived in crates from erstwhile USSR to Mumbai where they were assembled and test-flown by Russian and Indian teams before being despatched to their first unit in Assam. Having the Russians service the aircraft was an expensive business and soon IAF personnel took over its complete maintenance. Air Vice Marshal R. Somnath, an engineer who has worked with the Mi-8 for decades, proudly says, “Our engineers were second to none. They primped and primed the aircraft for its sorties – flood relief, military operations or VVIP movement.”

Somnath recalls how two Mi-8s were modified and made ready for the Shimla Agreement in 1972. One was to fly President Zulfikar Ali Bhutto of Pakistan and his daughter Benazir Bhutto, and the other Prime Minister Indira Gandhi. The original purely functional bucket seats were replaced with fancier seats re-appropriated from the L-1049 Super Constellation. “The Super Constellations were lying with Air India and they were only too happy to hand over eight seats to us,” says Somnath. The seats were installed in the Mi-8s after careful and crucial modifications and the VVIPs made that 20-minute flight from Chandigarh to Shimla and back in comfort!

Air Commodore RM Sridharan, who has flown many VIPs including Pope John Paul II (who gifted him with a rosary and blessed him), Margaret Thatcher during the CHOGM retreat at Goa, recalls his last trip with Indira Gandhi. It was on October 30, 1984, during a tour of Orissa. “From Gopalpur, we flew her to Bhubaneswar airport. The following morning as we were ferrying the Mi-8 back to Delhi we heard of her assassination!” On landing at Delhi, Sridharan was detailed to be in the funeral parade. “Days after I had flown her, I walked 15 km on her funeral route.”

Former Air Chief Fali Major was a founding member of the VVIP Helicopter Flight in Palam, Delhi, from where the Mi-8s flew only VVIPs. He calls the Mi-8 ‘iconic’ and, like most other Mi-8 Air Warriors, also describes it as ‘forgiving’. “We were in Kashmir valley. We had already flown several sorties from a place called Gurez to various forward posts. We wouldn’t switch off between each sortie but in our third or fourth landing at Gurez, we noticed the ground crew gesticulating frantically to us to switch off. Not very pleased, we did; only to find out that, instead of turbine fuel, our helicopter was flying on high-octane fuel!” Major says he also has the dubious distinction of being involved in the first Mi-8 accident in Chalunka, Ladakh. “Instead of four cross bolts, only two anchored the rotor to the helicopter fuselage that had already flown over 350 hours before they sheared off on that fateful day!”

Engineering marvel

For Group Captain Ravi Kumar, an engineer, an incident that stands out in his memory is a weekend at Yelahanka, Bengaluru. “An Mi-8 was returning to base from an assignment and, to our horror, we saw its left main wheel was missing as it approached for landing. It must have dropped off mid-flight! We took a snap decision to do something perhaps never done before; we fixed the wheel on the helicopter even as it hovered and the Mi-8 landed, safely!” Ravi Kumar calls the Mi-8 an engineering marvel, robust and simple in design and technology.

Thousands of sorties

The helicopter has flown thousands of sorties during natural calamities and Wing Commander Yella Reddy was one of the pilots who scrambled on receiving news that a bus had been swept into a river 60 km north of Cudappah at a place called Chagalamarri. The water had flooded the bus and its 65 occupants had clambered on to its roof where they spent the night.

“We began operations and, with the weather, fuel and the setting sun stacked against us, we began winching up the stranded. We knew that the passengers had to be pulled to safety as they would not survive another night on the bus rooftop. In between dashing back to Cudappah for refuelling we rescued them all, well after the sun had set. The solid Mi-8 made this possible.”

R.K. Sharma, the Commanding Officer of 112 HU in Yelahanka, was not even born when the magnificent machine was inducted into the IAF and he says, “It is emotional for me. As a rookie pilot, I was trained in this helicopter and now I will go down in IAF History as I fly it for one last time.”

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 18 Dec 2017 00:28

Training Over, India's First 3 Women Fighter Pilots Fly MiGs And Hawks
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/trainin ... ks-1788945

Flying Officers Bhawana Kanth, Mohana Singh and Avani Chaturvedi have joined their squadrons
Image

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby deejay » 18 Dec 2017 11:35

^the photo is older ofcourse. The white patches instead of Ranks is for Flt Cadets.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby jaysimha » 25 Dec 2017 16:52

RELEVANT EXTRACTS FROM INDIGENISATION POLICY OF IAF

Indigenisation in IAF is distinctly different from the efforts of DRDO
agencies. In IAF, it is mostly need based to meet our operational goals.
Indigenisation to a large extent would eliminate AOGs/PHUs and achieve
self-reliance for critical spares. In addition, indigenisation will help to
improve the performance of the equipment by incorporating the latest
technology.

:D
While BRDs will be the hubs for all indigenisation of IAF, all
other agencies i.e., Air HQ, HQ MC and EDs should support the endeavour
of BRDs and 1 CIMD in this process



http://indianairforce.nic.in/pdf/Extract_Indg_Pol.pdf

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby srai » 25 Dec 2017 17:50

^^^
That’s what ToT of a platform is supposed to cover — spare parts manufacturing domestically (and not much else). The indigization focus of the IAF seems to be more from a maintenance aspect.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby deejay » 25 Dec 2017 19:05

Indigenization of weapons or Made in India is not something IAF can directly issue a policy. That is a MoD subject. IAF can only talk of steps it has taken or plans to take internally for import substitution.

I am glad that an informed board thinks that IAF is so powerful that it can control policies in which Military was never allowed a say but sadly that is not true. Even internal policies of IAF are vetted and approved externally by MoD if they involve even one paise of Public Funds.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ashishvikas » 28 Dec 2017 10:48

Shuklaji - Government admits in Parliament that IAF's fighter shortfall will worsen during NDA’s term

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2017/12/g ... t.html?m=1

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby deejay » 28 Dec 2017 11:10

ashishvikas wrote:Shuklaji - Government admits in Parliament that IAF's fighter shortfall will worsen during NDA’s term

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2017/12/g ... t.html?m=1


While I disagree in spirit with Sukla ji since I find him in the corner which has YouPeeYay written all over it, his article does have some information, parts of which are quoted below:

The government’s response clearly indicated that squadron numbers were declining because of the government’s inability to replace the retiring fleet of MiG-21s.“Three squadrons of MiG-21 aircraft will be phased out by 2020”, stated the government.

Another answer revealed that the situation would only get worse by 2025. Answering another question from Biju Janata Dal MP Arka Keshari Deo, the defence ministry stated: “10 Squadrons of Indian Air Force (IAF) equipped with MiG-21 and MiG-27 aircraft are scheduled to retire by 2024 on completion of their Total Technical Life.”

On October 5, IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa, had stated that, by 2032 – the end of the 15th Defence Plan – the IAF would reach its authorised strength (of 42 squadrons). Towards that, the current government has concluded the procurement of only two squadrons of Rafale fighters, and progressed procurement of six squadrons of indigenous Tejas Mark 1 and Mark 1A (two and four squadrons respectively).

Over the past 15 years, the steady induction of 11 squadrons of Sukhoi-30MKI fighters had partially compensated for retiring MiG-21, MiG-23, MiG-25 and MiG-27 fighters. But the inflow of Su-30MKIs will end in 2019, when Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) is due to deliver the last two squadrons to the IAF.

Besides two Su-30MKI and six Tejas squadrons, two squadrons of Rafales are due for delivery between 2019-2022. However, these would be offset by the retirement of two older Jaguar fighter squadrons in the early 2020s.

With 12 squadrons retiring (ten MiG and two Jaguar), and just ten squadrons joining the fleet (two Su-30MKI, two Rafale and six Tejas), even maintaining the IAF fleet at 32 squadrons – ten less than authorised – would require additional procurements.

Fighter aircraft roadmap

Fighter type /Year /Details
2017/2025

Sukhoi-30MKI/11/13/
Built by HAL Nashik, production run ends in 2019

Rafale / Nil/2/Delivery of 36 Rafales from 2019-2022.

MiG-29/3/3/Being upgraded by 2018-19, will remain in service till 2032

Mirage 2000/3/3/Being upgraded by 2020-21, will remain in service till 2032

Jaguar/6/4/Proposal for upgrading four squadrons, to serve till 2040s

Tejas LCA Mk 1/Nil/2/Being built by HAL in Bengaluru by 2019-20.

Tejas LCA Mk 1A/Nil/4/Being developed by HAL by 2019 and built by 2025

MiG-21/7-8/Nil/Phased out of service by 2020

MiG-27/2/Nil/Phased out of service by 2020

Single-engine fighter (Gripen E or F-16 Block 70)/Nil/??/RFI issued for manufacturing on a new production line in India

Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA)/Nil/??/To be co-developed with Russia and built by HAL in India

TOTAL
32-33
31


In the past, the IAF has twice bought additional Su-30MKIs, and continues regarding that as a convenient option that has the additional advantage of pleasing Moscow and HAL. Alternatively, the government has the option of placing the proposed Indo-Russian “fifth generation fighter aircraft” (FGFA) on the fast track.

Another option that the IAF backs is to order two more squadrons of Rafale fighters. However, with the IAF’s budget already stressed from the two Rafale squadrons already contracted, another two squadrons would require the government to significantly scale up defence allocations.

The more cost-effective alternative with currency within the defence ministry is to progress the procurement of 5-10 squadrons of “single-engine fighters”, for which a “request for information” has already been sent out to global vendors. The favoured contenders are Saab of Sweden, which proposes to build the Gripen E in India; and US major, Lockheed Martin, which wants to transfer its production line to India for building the F-16 Block 70.

As part of this procurement, there are proposals to assist HAL in scaling up Tejas Mark 1A and Mark 2 production, in accordance with “Make in India” objectives.


Sukla ji, did a lot of hard work but let slip his bias. If cost effectiveness is any measure than most effective is Tejas. Period. Full Stop. Also note the last bold in large font. Now who could have moved such a proposal? :D

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 28 Dec 2017 12:19

Deejay, Do those Migs have to be phased out as per that schedule? Is it based on time or flight hours? If time then aircraft dont see fatigue due to loads.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 28 Dec 2017 12:25

From what was said earlier Mig-21 Bison will be phased out by 2025

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby deejay » 28 Dec 2017 12:37

ramana wrote:Deejay, Do those Migs have to be phased out as per that schedule? Is it based on time or flight hours? If time then aircraft dont see fatigue due to loads.


Sir, the Mig 21 and 27 are already on stretched usage. Their airframes are available but effective flying has been curtailed. I also understand limitations / restrictions are being applied. That means the Sqns will be training below par both in mission profile and number of pilot hours.

It's best to let them go as per plan.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 28 Dec 2017 13:12

Not if they have no alternative.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby deejay » 28 Dec 2017 13:16

Numberplating is a tough decision. Alternatives must have been exhausted before numberplating.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Khalsa » 29 Dec 2017 02:02

^^^ the drop in Jag squadrons from 6 to 4.
is that the oldest air frames being let go or we sort of using 2 to sustain the 4 by cannibalising etc.


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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby KBDagha » 29 Dec 2017 22:46

I believe MIG21 T-96 also retired today. Air Chief flew final sortie from Nal airbase. Do we know how many we had?


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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby nachiket » 30 Dec 2017 00:25

KBDagha wrote:https://twitter.com/ChethanKumarTOI/status/946744887029809154

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/946744820168396805

This mentions that it was the last Type-96 flight for the 108 squadron. It might still be serving in other squadrons. But can't be too many left now. IIRC No. 35 Sq Rapiers and 101 sq Falcons also flew the Type-96. Don't know if they're still active or numberplated.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby titash » 30 Dec 2017 02:04



So looks like the last of the non-upgraded MiG-27s are gone. I always wondered why the MiG-23/27 was the first to go...even before the much older MiG-21s and the Jags which frankly are at least 10 years older. Is it because the swing wing was always a maintenance hog? Or because the Tumansky R-29 turbojet was just too expensive to maintain and/or unreliable and/or fuel-guzzling?

Garus - any insights?


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