Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby SiddharthS » 09 Jan 2018 15:42

uddu wrote:Sorry about that second pic. Here is the correct one of HTT-40 cockpit
Image
Fully digital one. So we could say a PC-21 type cockpit at the price of PC-7. Cool.


They are going to add one more MFD. At 8.00


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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Indranil » 09 Jan 2018 17:33

I had not seen the HTT-40 cockpit before. Has to be said: very good indeed! It surprised me pleasantly.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby srai » 09 Jan 2018 17:51

Indranil wrote:
srai wrote:^^^
No funding provided for HTT-40. HAL had to use its own funds to develop it.

IAF’s antagonism against the HTT-40 was much worse than just not providing funds.

1. IAF chief wrote to GOI against the aircraft and did produce best case scenarios of PC-7 Mk2 and worse case scenarios of HTT-40, including price.

2. The SQRs required for a desi trainer bird were indeed watered down to allow the PC-7. Even KAI lodged protests.

3. It asked HAL to drop the HTT-40 and license produce PC-7s instead.

4. While speaking of the initial animosity shown by the IAF towards the project, A disgruntled Bhaduria openly suggested that somebody delayed his engine procurement by six months by writing anonymous letter to MOD that the engine being procured is unsafe.

How IAF showed no interest in HAL proposals from 1995 onwards is also well catalogued.

Thankfully, these are behind us now.

Good summary!

#1 sounds like the attacks that were recently made against the LCA in favor of SEF :evil:

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby JTull » 09 Jan 2018 19:12

Philip wrote:The PIlatus PC-7 and PC-21 are proven aircraft,highly rated internationally.In fact the PC-21 negates the need for a secondary stage trainer/IJT, and can simulate the performance/characteristics of various frontline aircraft. Until the HTT-40 is fully developed and tested and we have no IJT-like issues, whatever reqs. the IAF require in the interim should be met with more PC-7s,whatever. HTT-40s can then be buiit in large number as the req. will be very high for the 3 services,BSF,CG,state entities and flying clubs.The services are simply fed up with constant promises of products that arrive years late,sometimes with patchy performance too.Still waiting for the LUH for at least 5 years now!


Ah, the "proven" aircraft argument!

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby srai » 10 Jan 2018 06:25

JTull wrote:
Philip wrote:The PIlatus PC-7 and PC-21 are proven aircraft,highly rated internationally.In fact the PC-21 negates the need for a secondary stage trainer/IJT, and can simulate the performance/characteristics of various frontline aircraft. Until the HTT-40 is fully developed and tested and we have no IJT-like issues, whatever reqs. the IAF require in the interim should be met with more PC-7s,whatever. HTT-40s can then be buiit in large number as the req. will be very high for the 3 services,BSF,CG,state entities and flying clubs.The services are simply fed up with constant promises of products that arrive years late,sometimes with patchy performance too.Still waiting for the LUH for at least 5 years now!


Ah, the "proven" aircraft argument!

Basically in the Indian context, "proven" means import. Some people don't realize that once you import you get stuck in a dependency cycle since the imports are "mature" products with gleaming brochure "best-in-the-world" material claims (even if they don't live up-to-the-hype in real use). Your own products in development will never be "proven". Many rounds of user trials later and still it won't be "proven" :((

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 11 Jan 2018 07:44

New VVIP planes: Replacements for aged Air India One to arrive this month
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 417728.cms

American aircraft major Boeing will deliver two brand new B-777 to Air India this month, which will be used as the next VVIP planes for being flown by the president, VP and prime minister on their medium to long foreign trips. Once retrofitted with state-of-the-art security and communication systems, these two will replace the over 27-year-old Boeing 747 jumbo jets which have flying our top VVIPs across the globe. Making these planes fit for this high security duty will take about a year. "The government is deciding who will operate these two B 777-300 extended range as AI, which as the pilots, engineers and expertise for operating this type of aircraft, is soon going to be sold off. A call will be taken if the Indian Air Force (IAF) should have the planes in its fleet with the required infrastructure," said a senior government official. So it remains to be seen if our VVIP plane is known as IAF 1 or AI 1.

Till that call is taken, these planes could be sent to Boeing in US for VVIP retrofitting and high-end security fixtures like anti-missile systems apart from latest communication equipment so that they can serve as flying PMOs when the PM is on board. About two years back it was decided that post-modification, these planes will be handed over to IAF which would have then operated them with technical support of AI. Then there was a rethink on this as AI has the pilots, engineering and expertise for operating the Boeing 777s, and it was felt these aircraft should remain with AI once they are converted as VVIP jets. The old Boeing 747s being used today for long international flights by the PM are perfectly safe to fly but due to their advanced age, they are fuel guzzlers. They also cannot fly long-haul routes like India-US nonstop and do so with a stop in Europe. AI has four B-747s of which two are kept for VVIP flying.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chola » 11 Jan 2018 15:37

Had no idea we’re a major defense customer of Turkey.

What are the chances of us importing Anka drones? (They look like Amreeki Reapers.)

http://idrw.org/india-turkeys-3rd-largest-defence-buyer/

Turkey’s Exporters Assembly (TIM) reported that with purchase of USD106.8 million of Defence equipment and 125% growth in Defense export sales to India when compared to previous year, India is now Turkey’s Third biggest purchaser.

Turkish Defense exports to India is largely supply of equipment to Indian Private sector companies as there is no known direct defence deal between the two countries for sale of any equipment. In 2013, then Indian President Pranab Mukherjee on a visit to Turkey helped revive 20-year-old draft defence cooperation agreement between Turkey and India, since then Ankara’s outlook towards cooperation between two defence forces through military-to-military contacts and training exchanges have improved.

Ankara and New Delhi for long had suspicious and non-cooperative attitudes with each other due to Turkey’s long-standing close ties with Pakistan. Turkey for long also supported Pakistan on Kashmir but off lately has lowered down it’s Kashmir Centric past rhetoric while it continues to support Pakistan on Kashmir at the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation.

According to Indian media reports of 2017, Turkish Aerospace Industries developed medium-altitude, long-endurance Anka Armed drones were offered to India when Turkish President Erdogan visited India last year. Head of defence industry of Turkey Mr Cevik while speaking to Indian media also said that he wants to expand defence cooperation with India even further and was keen on procuring armoured personnel carriers and ammunition needed by Turkish Military from India.

India-Turkey relations seems to be headed for more deeper cooperation’s with a change in Ankara’s outlook towards New Delhi. India is still being counted among largest defence buyer in the world and Turkey off late has been keen on focusing and expanding its defence exports and also procure weapons from different sources. Turkey being part of NATO has already irked other NATO members and US Government after it recently procured S-400 Air Defence System from Russia.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 22 Jan 2018 05:42

Jan 19, 2018: https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/954330502709657600 --> The Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa is on a visit to AF Station Jaisalmer, a frontline air base of Rajasthan. He addressed & interacted with the Air Warriors of the Station.

Image

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby AdityaM » 23 Jan 2018 10:59

something new to read as per the article
India’s first-ever women fighter pilots gear up for solo MiG-21 flights

MiG-21 "Bisons", which have virtually the highest landing and take-off speed in the world at 340 kmph

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 24 Jan 2018 10:33

Yusuf Unjhawala
@YusufDFI
IAF is considering the possibility of an order for the F-35. Deliberations at an early stage. IAF will be writing to ask for more information on the fifth generation fighter.

Not sure if it is a bad joke or what?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 24 Jan 2018 10:42

I think a limited F-35 order with CISMOA only for F-35 is a better long term way of keeping Uncle in good books while working with them for Full TOT for F414 engine will be the better way of going about things rather than the SEF BS. Order LCA numbers, F-35 deal with induction after 2025 ok.

Yes a 36 order for F-35 will be uber expensive, more than Rafale but it will still mean that LCA will need to be funded in numbers.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 24 Jan 2018 10:50

Aditya_V wrote:I think a limited F-35 order with CISMOA only for F-35 is a better long term way of keeping Uncle in good books while working with them for Full TOT for F414 engine will be the better way of going about things rather than the SEF BS. Order LCA numbers, F-35 deal with induction after 2025 ok.

Yes a 36 order for F-35 will be uber expensive, more than Rafale but it will still mean that LCA will need to be funded in numbers.

1. This might be a negotiating tactic with Russians for FGFA.
2. Yes if we start today, we can be fairly sure of closure of deal by 2025 and +2/3 years for contract negotiation and of course deliveries start by 2030

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby srai » 24 Jan 2018 12:31

AdityaM wrote:something new to read as per the article
India’s first-ever women fighter pilots gear up for solo MiG-21 flights

MiG-21 "Bisons", which have virtually the highest landing and take-off speed in the world at 340 kmph

In the near future, this would be a perfect posting for the Tejas Mk.1 squadrons. Much safer for rookie pilots. Mk1 would be ideal for serving in the OFTU role. More should be ordered. Get LCA LIFT variant built and inducted too!

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 24 Jan 2018 15:47

Saras high speed taxi trial last month.
Saras High Speed Taxi Trials last month
Last edited by ramana on 25 Jan 2018 00:31, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: ramana

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby brar_w » 24 Jan 2018 15:51

Aditya_V wrote:
Yes a 36 order for F-35 will be uber expensive, more than Rafale but it will still mean that LCA will need to be funded in numbers.


That really hasn't been seen in actual competitions. With full rate production approaching soon the F-35 and the Rafale price out around the same cost if one goes by what some of the International deals have been signed for each.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 25 Jan 2018 00:36

Since the Tejas is going through airworthiness certification here is the link to the DRDO process:

Airworthiness Certification of Fighter Aircraft

A 404 page book. Only Introduction is in pdf.
The chapter titles give very good understanding of what goes on.


About the Monograph

This publication fills a very important niche in the broad spectrum of activities between design/development and release to service of a military fighter aircraft. That niche involves the expertise, knowledge, and ability to absorb and implement concepts/nuances of technologies adopted by the designers and certificated. The task is complex and demands a good grasp of the subject, considering the fact that a modern fighter aircraft encompasses a multitude of disciplines that have to be integrated into a system that will meet the requirements of safety and operational effectiveness. The role and responsibility of the certification authority are further exacerbated in the concurrent design and certification model adopted in India. The text is the outcome of decades of hands-on experience of the author in the design evaluation of the aircraft and its systems for safety and performance parameters, and in implementing the process of airworthiness certification of a variety of fighter aircraft, engines, systems, software and hardware. An attempt has been made to bring out the knowledge required in the design of individual disciplines, evaluation techniques to be adopted, and the interactive nature of the work. The text has been structured in such a fashion as to give to the casual reader a glimpse of airworthiness certification activities, and to the practitioner, a detailed exposure to this complex subject.

About the Author

Shri Krishnamurthy Nagaraj graduated in electrical engineering from the University of Mysore in 1961, and thereafter obtained the Masters Degree in Avionics and Control Engineering from Cranfield Institute of Technology, UK. As designer in the Aircraft Design and Engineering department of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, he worked in the HF 24 design group of Dr Kurt Tank. In 1969, he joined the Airworthiness Certification group of DRDO and rose to become the Chief Executive of CEMILAC. He has certified the mid-life upgrades on the Jaguar and Kiran aircraft, supported various other aircraft, and spurred the indigenous development of aircraft stores. He retired in 2001, after successfully certifying the Light Combat Aircraft for the first ten flights.


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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby nam » 25 Jan 2018 00:55

ArjunPandit wrote:
Yusuf Unjhawala
@YusufDFI
IAF is considering the possibility of an order for the F-35. Deliberations at an early stage. IAF will be writing to ask for more information on the fifth generation fighter.

Not sure if it is a bad joke or what?


If this is true, it is a good idea. We need 400 jets for IAF & 50-80 for IN

Bunch IAF+IN orders 250-300 F-35. Ask for engine tech or Industrial offset like the japanese. We have missed the bus for manned 5th gen.

200 LCA. Increase rate of Production to complete by 2027/28. Covers 500 jet requirement.

Merge AMCA with FGFA if Hal is going ahead with FGFA.

ADA concentrates fully on exotic tech: UCAV. F414 goes in to UCAV, to be in production by 2027.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 25 Jan 2018 01:11

^^After F35 will we have requirement/funds for AMCA/FGFA?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby nam » 25 Jan 2018 01:55

We were planning to do AMCA AND FGFA since middle of last decade. This was when our GDP was half of today!

With F35, we do away with development cost of one of the planned jet.

We are the only 2.5 trillion economy, which plan to develop two stealth jet and a stealth UCAV. Even France does not have such a plan!

A R&D spend of 3-4 billion till 2027-2030 is very much possible for a to be 6-7 trillion economy. If we drop plans for AMCA/FGFA, put the resources in to UCAV. It is pointless putting money on a manned jet available by 2030, when most of the major powers would be rolling out un-manned jets.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Indranil » 25 Jan 2018 02:02

China was developing two 5th generation aircraft when it is an economy of comparable size. When you want to, you will find a way When you don't want to, you would find an excuse.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby brar_w » 25 Jan 2018 02:34

nam wrote:It is pointless putting money on a manned jet available by 2030, when most of the major powers would be rolling out un-manned jets.


There will be new manned aircraft that will be designed, built and procured by and after 2030 all over the world. Ignore the hype around "the last manned fighter has been designed already".

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 31 Jan 2018 06:58

https://twitter.com/sjha1618/status/958331941601755137 ---> BTW, Tata Power SED has already installed the NAL developed DRISHTI runway visibility assessor system in some 18 Indian Air Force airfields.

some good info on DRISHTI ---> http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease. ... lid=123385
---------------------------> https://www.geographyandyou.com/science ... onitoring/

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shiv » 31 Jan 2018 08:15

nam wrote:It is pointless putting money on a manned jet available by 2030, when most of the major powers would be rolling out un-manned jets.

:rotfl: This is like the prediction I read in the1960s - "All fighting will be done by Laser by 1990.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shiv » 31 Jan 2018 08:25

Indranil wrote:China was developing two 5th generation aircraft when it is an economy of comparable size. When you want to, you will find a way When you don't want to, you would find an excuse.

With China releasing no data I have still not managed to figure out what is 5th gen about Chinese aircraft other than a general appearance of a stealth shape.

Unless I am totally mistaken - 5th generation is not stealth alone but a combination of steatlh, situational awareness, seamless encrypted communication, radar stealth and IR emission stealth, and in the case of the US, supercruise and thrust vectoring as well. And stealth again means special radar coating of the skin as well as active emissions that are difficult to detect.

All that I have seen from China is an aircraft "shaped like a stealth aircraft". The J-20 was also pictured in Tibet with a net roughly thrown over it suggesting that there was not much in the skin that needed care against abrasion.

When I ask such questions I usually have to face a barrage of put-downs about Chinese technology and ability which is highlighted without any data available. But I must point out that 5 days ago I bought (against my own judgement and because of lack of alternatives at that time) a Chinese made consumer electronics item that failed in exactly 3 days. I am smarting with irritation.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Sid » 31 Jan 2018 08:46

There is no publicly available data for any western 5th gen fighter either. Fudging, and obfuscation has been used since cold war time. Low observable design is just one aspect of 5th gen design, data fusion is the other piece of this puzzle. J-20 may be low observable, but by how much will be open for debate.

But its wise to assume the worst case, and build your response accordingly. Discussed this with many army officers and no one ever made a comment on their low quality or bluffs. Instead they mentioned their superiority in numbers, and logistics.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shiv » 31 Jan 2018 09:20

Sid wrote:But its wise to assume the worst case, and build your response accordingly.

I agree with this - but let me place on record a problem in the way the response is built. Typically high tech is difficult to create and implement and while we build our response - we are assailed by a tsunami of criticism pointing out how quickly the Chinese did it and how slow we are. Do you get my drift? If the US takes 20 years to develop something and India takes 30, how did the Chinese do it in 5? There is an answer to that. "Copying" I am told. Clearly copying does not work in real high tech like aircraft engines.

The point I want to make is that we must develop responses to our threats without self flagellating about how bad we are and how good the other guy is - like being constantly compared with the mythical neighbour Sharmaji's beta who is always topping every exam.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 31 Jan 2018 10:45

shiv wrote:
Sid wrote:But its wise to assume the worst case, and build your response accordingly.


May I remind people about the Pakistani missiles in late 90s and early 2000s that were way ahead of Indian wth longer legs higher payload and what not. If something is too good to be true it generally isn't

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby prabhug » 31 Jan 2018 12:55

Rakesh wrote:Jan 19, 2018: https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/954330502709657600 --> The Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa is on a visit to AF Station Jaisalmer, a frontline air base of Rajasthan. He addressed & interacted with the Air Warriors of the Station.

Image




Being a civilian i can't understand,.Why would somebody make somebody sit a chair when the rest of the lot sits on the tarmac.Is this by choice or grade ?
I felt that , we are unconsciously saying the services they offer are lesser than the people sit.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chetak » 31 Jan 2018 15:22

prabhug wrote:
Rakesh wrote:Jan 19, 2018: https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/954330502709657600 --> The Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa is on a visit to AF Station Jaisalmer, a frontline air base of Rajasthan. He addressed & interacted with the Air Warriors of the Station.

Image




Being a civilian i can't understand,.Why would somebody make somebody sit a chair when the rest of the lot sits on the tarmac.Is this by choice or grade ?
I felt that , we are unconsciously saying the services they offer are lesser than the people sit.



Being a civilian i can't understand.


Yes, you are right.

and you don't need to understand either.

Just look at the pretty picture. :)

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Kersi » 31 Jan 2018 17:32

shiv wrote:
nam wrote:It is pointless putting money on a manned jet available by 2030, when most of the major powers would be rolling out un-manned jets.

:rotfl: This is like the prediction I read in the1960s - "All fighting will be done by Laser by 1990.


I was a great fan of Meccano Magazine during my school days, i.e. late sixties to early 70s. They had a section called Air News which repeatedly said that teh English Electric P1 (now BAC Lightning) would be THE LAST manned aircraft to be made by UK !!!!!!

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby prabhug » 31 Jan 2018 20:04

chetak wrote:
prabhug wrote:


Being a civilian i can't understand,.Why would somebody make somebody sit a chair when the rest of the lot sits on the tarmac.Is this by choice or grade ?
I felt that , we are unconsciously saying the services they offer are lesser than the people sit.



Being a civilian i can't understand.


Yes, you are right.

and you don't need to understand either.

Just look at the pretty picture. :)


Looks like except officers in the defenses no one else understands it .Probably we have to ask our colonial masters to explain.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby atreya » 31 Jan 2018 20:13

prabhug wrote:
Rakesh wrote:Jan 19, 2018: https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/954330502709657600 --> The Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa is on a visit to AF Station Jaisalmer, a frontline air base of Rajasthan. He addressed & interacted with the Air Warriors of the Station.

Image




Being a civilian i can't understand,.Why would somebody make somebody sit a chair when the rest of the lot sits on the tarmac.Is this by choice or grade ?
I felt that , we are unconsciously saying the services they offer are lesser than the people sit.


It spells '35' (the squadron) and the ones sitting on chairs are in the formation of a sword (No. 35 Squadron - The Rapiers) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._35_Squadron_IAF

Whatever you feel we are saying 'unconsciously' is your perception colouring and adding extra meaning to a simple and elegant picture of a fighting unit.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chetak » 31 Jan 2018 20:35

atreya wrote:
prabhug wrote:


Being a civilian i can't understand,.Why would somebody make somebody sit a chair when the rest of the lot sits on the tarmac.Is this by choice or grade ?
I felt that , we are unconsciously saying the services they offer are lesser than the people sit.


It spells '35' (the squadron) and the ones sitting on chairs are in the formation of a sword (No. 35 Squadron - The Rapiers) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._35_Squadron_IAF

Whatever you feel we are saying 'unconsciously' is your perception colouring and adding extra meaning to a simple and elegant picture of a fighting unit.


Willfully seeing caste where none exists or an attempt to inject it for nefarious purposes??

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shiv » 31 Jan 2018 22:02

prabhug wrote:I felt that , we are unconsciously saying the services they offer are lesser than the people sit.

You are unconsciously revealing that you consider that sitting on a chair means higher status.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 01 Feb 2018 12:09

One of the missing capabilities in the IAF, a dedicated CS/GA aircraft.Perhaps the HTT-40 could be tweaked into a ;light COIN bird like the Tucano,but no flying tank like the SU-25s and A-10s what we need.The US is to acquire some more A-10s,latest news.Why the armed Hawk has been given the thumbs down by the IAF is a mystery. 3-4 sqds. of that bird with suitable armour for the cockpit,vitals,etc.,would give us our own smaller tank-buster.

https://sputniknews.com/military/201801 ... -top-list/
Firepower: 4 Most Formidable Close Air Support Fighters in the World
Sukhoi Su-25 displayed on a runway during the 10th anniversary celebrations of the CSTO Russian air base opening in the town of KantFrontline Firepower: 4 Most Formidable Close Air Support Fighters in the World © Sputnik/ Vladimir Pirogov
MILITARY & INTELLIGENCE
20:47 14.01.2018
Military observer Andrei Kotz outlines why, even many decades after their introduction, the workhorse designs of Russian and American close air support aviation remain essential components of the countries' air power projection capabilities.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chetak » 01 Feb 2018 12:22

Philip wrote:One of the missing capabilities in the IAF, a dedicated CS/GA aircraft.Perhaps the HTT-40 could be tweaked into a ;light COIN bird like the Tucano,but no flying tank like the SU-25s and A-10s what we need.The US is to acquire some more A-10s,latest news.Why the armed Hawk has been given the thumbs down by the IAF is a mystery. 3-4 sqds. of that bird with suitable armour for the cockpit,vitals,etc.,would give us our own smaller tank-buster.

https://sputniknews.com/military/201801 ... -top-list/
Firepower: 4 Most Formidable Close Air Support Fighters in the World
Sukhoi Su-25 displayed on a runway during the 10th anniversary celebrations of the CSTO Russian air base opening in the town of KantFrontline Firepower: 4 Most Formidable Close Air Support Fighters in the World © Sputnik/ Vladimir Pirogov
MILITARY & INTELLIGENCE
20:47 14.01.2018
Military observer Andrei Kotz outlines why, even many decades after their introduction, the workhorse designs of Russian and American close air support aviation remain essential components of the countries' air power projection capabilities.


AFAIK, the HTT-40 is touted as having a COIN role too.

The details are sketchy, though.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Khalsa » 01 Feb 2018 14:35

chetak wrote:
prabhug wrote:


Being a civilian i can't understand,.Why would somebody make somebody sit a chair when the rest of the lot sits on the tarmac.Is this by choice or grade ?
I felt that , we are unconsciously saying the services they offer are lesser than the people sit.



Being a civilian i can't understand.


Yes, you are right.

and you don't need to understand either.

Just look at the pretty picture. :)



I have dozens of pictures from Kendra Vidalaya (Central School) where many of us sat on the ground while our teachers sat on benches or stood behind all of us.

You are reading far too much into this.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby prabhug » 01 Feb 2018 15:02

Sir I am seeing it as a reminiscent of the colonial past. chetak, i am not saying about caste.I am see the equality and the self respect of human beings.This hierarchical approach may not attract people to do these services.I think these services are becoming more technical we would expect more skilled people to come in.We talk about SDRE in this forum and chetak comment hints me if we realy do mean that. I hear stories how american ground crew takes responsibility in owning the aircraft. I don't see any movement towards such a efficient and transparent approach.
A simple gesture can go a long way.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chetak » 01 Feb 2018 15:40

prabhug wrote:Sir I am seeing it as a reminiscent of the colonial past. chetak, i am not saying about caste.I am see the equality and the self respect of human beings.This hierarchical approach may not attract people to do these services.I think these services are becoming more technical we would expect more skilled people to come in.We talk about SDRE in this forum and chetak comment hints me if we realy do mean that. I hear stories how american ground crew takes responsibility in owning the aircraft. I don't see any movement towards such a efficient and transparent approach.
A simple gesture can go a long way.


I would have thought that the idiom "a closed mouth gathers no feet" would have been the best way for you to go, but you seem very keen on tilting at windmills.

What makes you think that an Indian Forces ground crew don't take responsibility for their aircraft??

You know nothing about the camaraderie, the loyalty and the fierce community spirit inherent in any forces unit. A mere chair cannot disrupt it as you so fondly imagine. Neither the SDRE men nor the SDRE officers are that weak of character.

you seem to think that a mere chair is indicative of some deep seated malaise that ONLY you have miraculously been able to decipher and I for one do definitely see your needless comment as anything but innocent, especially when others have pointed out the fallaciousness of your thought process.

What is not transparent for you?? Don't you think that it takes skill to keep these old warhorses flying, day after day??

BTW, I was not "hinting" at anything. I was telling you to your face that you are wrong.

Are you one of those commies who want to see the Indian Armed forces attired in lungi and chappals, wielding lathis so that a truly egalitarian society, all bum chummy can be established to soothe your non colonial mindset?? chewing pan and spitting a red stream in a non colonial fashion, during ceremonial parades??

Didn't the republic day parade or the president's ceremonial mounted bodyguards strike you as a truly colonial ?? Some Army units were maybe raised over two centuries ago. They have proud traditions and age old customs that they still honour. It's not something that you would even begin to understand.

and finally, sorry to disappoint you so badly, but the forces anywhere in the world are deeply hierarchical and that is precisely what makes them tick.

With your mindset, it's no wonder that you and others of your ilk did not join up.

May we know when you passed out of JNU/Jhadavpur Univ/AMU/Jamia millia??
Last edited by chetak on 01 Feb 2018 15:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby JTull » 01 Feb 2018 15:57

This kind of personal attack shows what's wrong with this forum. He's expressed his opinion and you've a different opinion. Move on!


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