Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

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MeshaVishwas
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby MeshaVishwas » 20 May 2019 17:39

IAF successfully test fires anti-tank guided bomb
https://m.timesofindia.com/city/jaipur/iaf-successfully-test-fires-anti-tank-guided-bomb/articleshow/69404207.cms
Defence sources said that CBU-105 is a sensor fused weapon of 1,000 pound (450Kg) which is dropped with the help of GPS. The best part of the weapon is that it can be used during day or night and even in adverse weather conditions. In 2010 the Indian government placed an order of 512 bombs which were delivered by company. To use them the Jaguar fighter aircraft were upgraded with new Drain[sic] III Navigation and Combat system. Upgraded Jaguar fighter aircraft can carry 4-6 sensor fused bomb (CBU-105) on enemy targets.

Devastating weapon system this CBU.
And good to know that the DARIN 3 Jags were used.
(Any chaiwallah info on this DARIN3 program status?)

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karan M » 20 May 2019 18:10

Flight Test Results for FOC done, w/IAF, their response awaited (as of Dec 2018).
No sign of engine (stuck on cost).
EW in devpt (by DRDO).

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby MeshaVishwas » 20 May 2019 18:58

^^
Thanks for the update!
From AFS Vadodara, an impressive image:
Image
https://twitter.com/DefencePRO_Guj/stat ... 17792?s=19
I think that this is the HS748 interior decked out as an air ambulance.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 21 May 2019 01:01

Karan M wrote:Flight Test Results for FOC done, w/IAF, their response awaited (as of Dec 2018).
No sign of engine (stuck on cost).
EW in devpt (by DRDO).


I thought there was the issue of warranty by HAL. They wanted Honeywell which is just supplying engine to take on the warranty.
And now they agreed to just buy the engine and integrate it.
Lots of years lost in bokwas by HAL.
And sad no one pointed out the problem.
How can an engine supplier take over upgraded plane's overall performance warranty?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby kit » 21 May 2019 01:17

MeshaVishwas wrote:IAF successfully test fires anti-tank guided bomb
https://m.timesofindia.com/city/jaipur/iaf-successfully-test-fires-anti-tank-guided-bomb/articleshow/69404207.cms
Defence sources said that CBU-105 is a sensor fused weapon of 1,000 pound (450Kg) which is dropped with the help of GPS. The best part of the weapon is that it can be used during day or night and even in adverse weather conditions. In 2010 the Indian government placed an order of 512 bombs which were delivered by company. To use them the Jaguar fighter aircraft were upgraded with new Drain[sic] III Navigation and Combat system. Upgraded Jaguar fighter aircraft can carry 4-6 sensor fused bomb (CBU-105) on enemy targets.

Devastating weapon system this CBU.
And good to know that the DARIN 3 Jags were used.
(Any chaiwallah info on this DARIN3 program status?)


keep in mind Cheen has a clone of CBU in place. That said just one pass of a pair of CBU laden jets can flatten out an entire armoured regiment.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 21 May 2019 06:14

OK CBU-105 is the Wind Corrected Munition Dispenser(WCMD)
It adds GPS guidance to CBU-97 and corrects for wind drift.
I recall reading that wind drift was causing the weapon to go astray.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBU-97_Se ... zed_Weapon

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 21 May 2019 06:23

Didn't DRDO try to reverse engineer a British JP 233 bomb of similar design and has similar skeet type ammo?

Wonder what happened?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JP233

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karan M » 21 May 2019 12:52

Wont be required anymore IMHO because that entire attack vector is too dangerous.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Prasad » 21 May 2019 13:10

Well, we could put it on an srbm/nirbhay instead of an aircraft to entirely avoid the platform survivability issue.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby IndraD » 21 May 2019 14:49

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 420359.cms
Budgam chopper incident: Officers could face charge of culpable homicide

looks like our mi17 chopper was downed by own Spidyr missile ^

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karan M » 21 May 2019 15:39

Prasad wrote:Well, we could put it on an srbm/nirbhay instead of an aircraft to entirely avoid the platform survivability issue.


You'd lose too many UAVs, flying straight and level.. I suspect what they'll try for is GPS corrected sub-munitions released at height, apart from SAAW type units.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby MeshaVishwas » 21 May 2019 15:45

The purchase of the sights comes in the wake of reports of Pakistani jihadis being given sniper training. The new rifles and the telescopic sights are expected to be an effective counter. Besides the sights, 50 Field Artillery tractors are also likely to be bought, to add to the 100 already acquired and also, for the Indian Air Force (IAF) crypto modules for its Software Design[sic] Radios.

https://www.timesnownews.com/amp/india/ ... les/422566

Software Defined Radio acquisition fast tracked?
What is a "Crypto Module"?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Prasad » 21 May 2019 15:49

Karan M wrote:
Prasad wrote:Well, we could put it on an srbm/nirbhay instead of an aircraft to entirely avoid the platform survivability issue.


You'd lose too many UAVs, flying straight and level.. I suspect what they'll try for is GPS corrected sub-munitions released at height, apart from SAAW type units.

Nirbhay will fly-in at treetop level. So survivability should be good no?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karan M » 21 May 2019 15:55

These munitions were anti-runway munitions which had to be released over the runway, flying straight and level. The Tornado crews didn't fancy their chances with such a weapon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JP233

Deployment was rather frightening for the flight crew, since it required the aircraft to fly low, straight and level over an enemy airfield, and when over the runway the pods would dispense their payload. During the Gulf War it was widely reported in the popular press that Tornados were shot down by AAA fire and MANPADS during delivery of the JP233 munition,[3] but in fact none of the losses occurred during the attack phase of a JP233 mission. Only one aircraft was lost carrying the JP233 munition when Tornado ZA392 crashed into the ground approximately 16 km (10 mi) after delivering the weapon at low level; enemy fire was not reported and it was believed that this was an incident of controlled flight into terrain.[4]

What alarmed the crews of British and Saudi Arabian Tornados using JP233 was that the aircraft was brightly illuminated at night by the exploding munitions.[5] Attacks using JP233 were suspended six days into the Gulf War, as the Iraqi Air Force was effectively flying no missions.

With the increasing availability of standoff attack munitions capable of the same mission with little risk to the flight crew and aircraft, and the British entry into the Land Mines Treaty (which declares the HB-876 illegal), the JP233 has been withdrawn from service.


Instead, release steerable munitions at medium altitude which guide themselves to specific points on the runway.

Low level attack to approach the target is fine (radar avoidance) but on reaching moving to medium alt to get better time to respond to threats may actually be better, deploy munitions and then again get to low level to run off. Lo-Hi-Lo.
USAF crews in ODS faced similar issues. Got, trained on LANTIRN (basically optics + TFR for low flying) then went to their bosses and asked for medium alt attack clearance because of risks involved.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Singha » 21 May 2019 16:57

i think the JSOW and Mojelnir gliding unpowered weapons released from low level are closest analogues to what SAAW and Garuda can do. at low level they can hit an airbase from 5-10km off the aircraft flight path. at high level they can glide 50km. the mjoenir looking at its shape is not a impact weapon, but releases smaller weapons.

Image

Image

fixed stub wings, so less range maybe max 5km in lo-lo-lo mode but permits the gripen to avoid flying right over a target.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 21 May 2019 21:01

IndraD wrote:https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/budgam-chopper-incident-officers-could-face-charge-of-culpable-homicide/articleshow/69420359.cms
Budgam chopper incident: Officers could face charge of culpable homicide

looks like our mi17 chopper was downed by own Spidyr missile ^


The Court of Inquiry (COI) is not completed but special reporters have access to partial reports.

Sad that IAF brass leak to such morons who don't provide context.

I am sure it was a series of accidents that led to the shoot down.

The Tribune article gives better context. Will try to locate and post full text.
After that will point out all the separate things that led to the shoot down.
Any root cause that points fingers at human factors is bogus witch hunt type action.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 21 May 2019 21:04

MeshaVishwas wrote:
The purchase of the sights comes in the wake of reports of Pakistani jihadis being given sniper training. The new rifles and the telescopic sights are expected to be an effective counter. Besides the sights, 50 Field Artillery Tractors (FAT) are also likely to be bought, to add to the 100 already acquired and also, for the Indian Air Force (IAF) crypto modules for its Software Design[sic] Radios.

https://www.timesnownews.com/amp/india/ ... les/422566

Software Defined Radio acquisition fast tracked?
What is a "Crypto Module"?


Encryption module. So the output is encrypted and not in clear or open transmission.
Makes it difficult to monitor.

BTW above article is incorrect. Telescopes are for sniper rifles not for assault rifles for you can't fire at that range with assault rifle.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 21 May 2019 22:07

MeshaVishwas wrote:
MeshaVishwas wrote:Copter crash ‘self-hit’, IAF commander out-Ajay Banerjee, The Tribune.

https://www.tribuneindia.com/mobi/news/nation/copter-crash-self-hit--iaf-commander-out/775881.html


:eek:
Damning report if correct.


MeshaVishwas wrote:
Sid wrote:Military aircrafts do fly with their transponders off, and IFF is a transponder.

This story about that Heli didn’t had it’s IFF on, then it’s missing black box, and now stating that Srinagar AFB issues orders to keep aircraft IFF smells like BS. This article has no access to what inquiry has found yet.

An air defense unit must have relied on other equipment then just an IFF interrogation, what about a radio contact? There were AWAC and active GC who must have worked on identifying it.

Blue on Blue happens, and someone fcuked up. But this line of reasoning seems to be blaming the victim here.

Sudhi Ranjan Sen also reporting along similar lines so multiple sources confirm a friendly fire caused by alleged negligence of SOPs.
But Ajay's report mentions a near miss between an An-32 and a Rambha while Sudhi mentions a near miss between the Super Herc and the Rambha(more likely IMO)

The preliminary inquiry into the accident has allegedly indicated several lapses leading to the tragic accident. For instance, the air traffic control called the helicopter back even as air engagement between Indian and Pakistani fighters intensified. “Ideally, the helicopter should have been sent away to safer zone instead of it being called back to the base,” said a second senior defence ministry official who did not want to be named. “The incoming helicopter should have been vectored into the pre-designated zone meant for friendly aircraft to hold till the alert was called off,” the official added.
All bases have designated airspace for friendly aircraft in case of an air-defence-alert. “Air defence platforms such as missile systems, air defence guns etc. are kept free; they are free to engage any aircraft which doesn’t identify itself as a “friendly” either through the IFF or by remaining confined to the airspace designated for friendly aircraft,” the second senior officer added.

In this case, the Identification of Friend or Foe (IFF) – a transponder-based identification system that informs the air defence radars whether incoming aircraft is friendly – was switched off, against the laid down protocol.

After a “near-air-miss” incident in Jammu and Kashmir in 2018 between a C-130 J, a US-made transport aircraft, and a Russian-made Su-30 fighter aircraft, IAF Headquarters directed all aircraft coming into land to have their IFF systems on. Surprisingly, the Srinagar Air Base had issued contradictory orders. “Had the IFF system been on, air defence radars would have at least identified Helicopter as a friendly aircraft,” the second senior defence ministry official said.


https://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news/senior-officer-moved-over-lapses-in-iaf-chopper-friendly-fire-case/story-3oK8lQdQucGo3mmHnUBazO_amp.html

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Sid » 21 May 2019 23:14

One thing I never like is the courier/passenger service which IAF operates between airports/airbases.

IAF assets are already limited and depleted, why not outsource these services to private airlines by opening corridors for these charted flights?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Sid » 21 May 2019 23:23

Regarding the blue-on-blue incident, few more things to consider -

- Which IFF is currently in use by IAF. CABS had release an indigenous IFF, which is now manufactured by Data Patterns back since 2012. Is the same now used in entire fleet?

- IFF interrogations can fail too, what were the actions taken in that scenario.

This whole narrative revolves around IFF only, which seems to be from the point of view of folks who engaged the helicopter.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 22 May 2019 00:26


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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby JTull » 22 May 2019 02:24

What would be the reasons to ever have IFF switched off?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 22 May 2019 03:58

1) Maybe it was supposed to fly to LOC in stealth mode.
2) Maybe it never had the equipment
3) Maybe it was not working.
4) Maybe the equipment was prone to failure and a bother to get repaired. Could be conserved for real war situation

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Indranil » 22 May 2019 04:07

Maybe, we shouldn't discuss it here. Not here please. 7 people have died, six of whom were highly trained. Many others face career-ending uncertainty. I am sure all of them knew the gravity of the situation and none of them were being reckless on purpose.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 22 May 2019 05:09

Your last line is my point too.
Any root cause that focuses on people alone is a witch hunt.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Singha » 22 May 2019 09:10

my guess its movement was confused for one the large Paki drone CH4 (similar speed, far slower than fighters) ... at 12km distance its singleton nature would be noted also (fighters would normally operate atleast in a pair). breakdown of comms between ATC and ADGES centers.

that morning pre-dawn hours a CH4 had been shot down south of bhuj airbase deep inside india (I located its crash point from RJ govt village maps as south east of bhuj on a direct track to jamnagar). so all AD units would have got the memo.

we likely did not have forward deployed SAMs and their radars west of srinagar and so a drone was presumed to have sneaked in and heading south toward avantipore airbase. as iraq has shown these drones can be armed with ATGMs. can cause damage if they can fire at oil installations esp. houthis have already demoed that.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 22 May 2019 11:32

https://twitter.com/nileshjrane/status/ ... 18753?s=19 ---> Read this thread before you make up your mind on the IAF Mi17 Heli incidence, based on unsubstantiated Media reports. Be patient and let the CoI report come out first. This is not soap opera we are talking about. Its a serious matter. Lets give due time for proper CoI.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby MeshaVishwas » 22 May 2019 17:11

8)

#RulingTheSkies : IAF successfully fired the #BrahMos air version missile from its frontline Su-30 MKI fighter aircraft today. The launch from the aircraft was smooth & the missile followed the desired trajectory before directly hitting the land target.

https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1131156968876306437?s=19

BrahMos provides IAF the capability to strike from large stand-off ranges on any target at sea or on land with pinpoint accuracy by day or night in any weather condition. Brahmos coupled with the superlative performance of Su-30MKI gives IAF the desired strategic reach.

https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1131157013365321733?s=19

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby deejay » 22 May 2019 19:19

ramana wrote:
IndraD wrote:https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/budgam-chopper-incident-officers-could-face-charge-of-culpable-homicide/articleshow/69420359.cms
Budgam chopper incident: Officers could face charge of culpable homicide

looks like our mi17 chopper was downed by own Spidyr missile ^


The Court of Inquiry (COI) is not completed but special reporters have access to partial reports.

Sad that IAF brass leak to such morons who don't provide context.

I am sure it was a series of accidents that led to the shoot down.

The Tribune article gives better context. Will try to locate and post full text.
After that will point out all the separate things that led to the shoot down.
Any root cause that points fingers at human factors is bogus witch hunt type action.


All I can say that the leak did not happen from IAF at all.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Ashokk » 22 May 2019 19:58

Attempted break-in at IAF Rafale project team facility in France: Sources
NEW DELHI: Unidentified persons broke into the Indian Rafale project management team office in France on Sunday night in a possible espionage attempt to steal data related to the aircraft critical to India's national security plans.
"There was a break-in into the Indian Air Force Rafale project management team office which is located in a suburb of Paris in France. No hard disk or document has been stolen. More details are being ascertained about the motive," sources in the Indian Air Force told ANI.
The Rafale project team is headed by a Group Captain-rank officer who looks after issues related to the 36 Rafale combat aircraft, including the production timelines and training of Indian personnel who have to be trained for maintenance and flying operations of the plane, which India is acquiring.
The Rafale team sits in a building complex in Saint Cloud suburb of Paris and the police there is investigating the case.
Sources said the main aim of the break-in could have been to steal data as valuables or money are not kept in these administrative offices.
The Indian Rafale team office is in the vicinity of French Dassault Aviation office blocks. Government sources said the Indian Air Force has already briefed the defence ministry in this regard and French police authorities are probing the case.
India in 2016 signed a Rs 59,800 crore agreement with France for acquiring 36 Rafale combat aircraft for meeting the shortfall in Indian Air Force squadron strength.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 22 May 2019 20:22

One does not have to be a genius to figure out who was behind this break in. Reminds me of Watergate!

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Prithwiraj » 22 May 2019 23:06

Rakesh wrote:One does not have to be a genius to figure out who was behind this break in. Reminds me of Watergate!


When will we learn ! Hopefully no secret has been compromised. Same happened with Scorpene submarines. Is it that easy to just break in like that? No sentry or guards on duty outside? Jeez my home has better security surveillance. May be I am jumping the gun?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby sanjayc » 23 May 2019 00:01

BrahMos missile fired from Sukhoi-30MKI

Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... aign=cppst

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chetak » 23 May 2019 01:44

Indian Air Force ✔ @IAF_MCC

#WomenPower: Flt Lt Bhawana Kanth adds another feather to her cap by completing Day Operational syllabus on MiG-21 Bison aircraft. She is the first women fighter pilot to be qualified to undertake missions by day on a fighter aircraft.

4,704
7:19 PM - May 22, 2019


Image


Image

Flt Lt Bhawana Kanth becomes first IAF woman pilot to undertake combat missions


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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby wig » 23 May 2019 08:34

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... 77007.html

IAF Chief to lead ‘missing man’ flight to honour Sqn Ldr Ahuja -Will mark 20 years since the officer was killed by Pak troops
Exactly 20 years after Pakistan had downed an Indian Air Force plane and later killed Squadron Leader Ajay Ahuja, IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa will himself lead the ‘missing man formation’ flight on May 27.

The IAF Chief was then commanding the Golden Arrows Squadron based in Srinagar and Squadron Leader Ahuja was the Flight Commander. He was later awarded Vir Chakra posthumously for his effort during the Kargil conflict in 1999.
The formation flying will be carried out at the Air Force Station in Bathinda, which was the home base of the Golden Arrows Squadron before it was forward located to Srinagar at the onset of the Kargil conflict.

and
On May 27, 1999, Squadron Leader Ahuja was shot dead by Pakistani soldiers after he had ejected over the Batalik sector along the Line of Control, 200 km north-east of Leh in Jammu & Kashmir.

He had parachuted on ground but was tortured to death by Pakistani troops.

tribute to the brave helicopter crew shot down during the Kargil military ops
Also, on May 28, the IAF Chief will fly in a helicopter formation from Sarsawa near Saharanpur. This will also be exactly 20 years from the day when an IAF Mi-17 helicopter, that was on a sortie, was shot down on the Indian side of the Line of Control.

Four personnel, including the helicopter’s two pilots, had perished. The helicopter had come under fire 6-7 km north of Drass. The helicopter was part of the operations against Pakistan-supported infiltrators in the Kargil sector.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 24 May 2019 02:37

No cut-and-paste allowed. Enjoy! :)

So Air Chief Marshal Dhanoa is retiring by September as per the news article and Air Marshal R Nambiar appears to be leading.

Seniority likely to be overlooked for IAF top post
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 453494.cms

Modi Govt starts process to pick new IAF chief, could opt for merit over seniority
https://theprint.in/defence/modi-govt-s ... ty/228730/

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Cain Marko » 28 May 2019 15:43

NDTV reporting that IAF is interested in interim purchase of I derby for MKI....


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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby JTull » 28 May 2019 17:32



This guy is becoming nastier in his portrayal of Indian armed forces.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby MeshaVishwas » 28 May 2019 22:40

The chief has a fantastic sense of humour. I like how he does not use the Army's "misadventure" term to describe the Uniformed Jehadi actions and just calls them "stupid". :rotfl:



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