Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 25 Jul 2019 04:43

I was being told here that mig 29s are more agile than even so 30 mki.. Coming to the retirement piece I think iaf is not on position to do that early.. Actually it would be mig 21 Saga again... Till mwf comes

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby fanne » 27 Jul 2019 05:11

Mig 29 as a platform can shoot on an average all planes that TSPAF has (on an average, not on a good day). Except for F-16, it will shoot down any other with over 99% probability and F-16 with over 70% (the upgraded once). If a F-16 is configured for ground attack (which at least half of their would be in a typical war), I will give Mig 29 over 90% probability to come on top (all else being equal, pilot skill and SA being provided by AWACS to both side). Why would you retire a plane like that? When it is better than the best that your adversary has?
With the Chicoms, it will hold against SU-27 and its derivatives and shoot down others that they can throw. Perhaps it is the best air defense fighter we have right now. So why retire it?
It is fashionable now to have a view that Russians gear are bad (without any thought/analysis)...

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby srai » 27 Jul 2019 06:00

^^^

Every airframe will reach their end-of-life at some point. IAF MiG-29s are not getting retired this coming decade (i.e. 2020-2030). But will need to be retired the following decade (i.e. 2030-2040). The oldest of the lot will be over 40-years old by then.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby brar_w » 27 Jul 2019 06:29

It is sometimes better to retire aircraft before their hypothetical EOSL because 1) Maintaining them, and meeting performance and training standards becomes cost-prohibitive, 2) Age, fatigue, and lack of modern features begin to impact safety and reliability, and because 3) Alternatives are available at a cost which make them extremely attractive when considering the added benefit of capability that they enhance. A good example of this is the USAF F-15C which is now being sunset a decade ahead of its earlier planned date. Retiring them in the mid to late 2030's would have meant new wings and other structural and combat system upgrades (an overall sub $12 MM spend per unit). But meeting high mission readiness, combat effectiveness and pilot training was not going to be easy when compared to new and more capable F-15EX. I think it is perfectly possible that the IAF considers moving the MiG-29 and even Mirage 2000 retirement to the left if the MWF delivers early or on schedule with the promised capability.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Cain Marko » 27 Jul 2019 09:45

brar_w wrote:I. I think it is perfectly possible that the IAF considers moving the MiG-29 and even Mirage 2000 retirement to the left if the MWF delivers early or on schedule with the promised capability.

That sir, is wishful thinking. so far the LCA program has hardly stuck to a single timeline. I'll be celebrating and pontificating over the rooftops if the MWF does so...

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby brar_w » 27 Jul 2019 11:11

Cain Marko wrote:
brar_w wrote:I. I think it is perfectly possible that the IAF considers moving the MiG-29 and even Mirage 2000 retirement to the left if the MWF delivers early or on schedule with the promised capability.

That sir, is wishful thinking. so far the LCA program has hardly stuck to a single timeline. I'll be celebrating and pontificating over the rooftops if the MWF does so...


Using historic data to project future performance has its limits. The LCA was a major undertaking with a lot of 'firsts' that invention and discovery that had to be done to get it just right. All this had to be done despite some serious entrenched resistance at various levels of the government during the course of its development. The MWF is being developed by a team that is now successfully delivering on the LCA now, is past is design and test learning curve so as long as its technical capabilities are not significantly tinkered with (scope creep like the suggestions that keep popping up here to make it into a twin engined aircraft or to upsize it to run on an AL-31 etc. etc) the odds of it being executed more smoothly are actually quite high. Now if we were talking about the AMCA, I would agree. Those technologies have a long learning curve as they extend from design, testing (unique 5th generation and VLO static and dynamic test environments) right down to production capability.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 29 Jul 2019 20:09

No need to import trainer aircraft, HTT 40 to be ready by December: HAL
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 423760.cms

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby abhik » 29 Jul 2019 20:45

Indian Air Force signs Rs 1500 crore deal with Russia for R-27 air-to-air missiles
Looks like we are sticking to R-27s (another vote of confidence on R-77). Not clear on the numbers being ordered.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 29 Jul 2019 20:57

abhik wrote:Indian Air Force signs Rs 1500 crore deal with Russia for R-27 air-to-air missiles
Looks like we are sticking to R-27s (another vote of confidence on R-77). Not clear on the numbers being ordered.


Hope this is cover for something else being purchased or taken for UAVs. Or tactics to launch R27 at long range , get the adversary in the correct tactical position for a R73/R77 take down.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ashishvikas » 29 Jul 2019 21:13

Rakesh wrote:No need to import trainer aircraft, HTT 40 to be ready by December: HAL
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 423760.cms


If other nations are ready to place orders, why doesn't @HALHQBLR set up the production infrastructure for HTT-40 instead of pressing the @IAF_MCC to place an order based on speculation that Spin trials would be successfully completed by Dec.?

Spin trials have been underway since November 2018. Why have they not been completed? Clearly, the design is being tweaked. In the case of HJT-36, @HALHQBLR first attempted Spin trials in 2011 but till date, despite a deep redesign, hasn't been able to spin the aircraft.

@HALHQBLR 's optimism aside, in January 2019, the IAF based on a review of its contracts with HAL, told the government that HTT-40 certification was unlikely before 2021!

https://t.co/rucoXdEQ9L

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 29 Jul 2019 22:14

No one, repeat no one will buy a plane that the nations armed forces wont buy.
It has been shown even for US.
Eg F-5.

BTW IAF will buy the plane.
Pilatus has been greased and whole lot of officers and politicians will get their due.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby srin » 29 Jul 2019 22:50

IAF needs spares from suspended Swiss supplier Pilatus, exploring options
The Indian Air Force (IAF) is exploring the possibility of sourcing spares and components for its basic trainers from Pilatus Aircraft Limited even as the government has suspended business dealings with the Swiss planemaker for a year, two officials said on the condition of anonymity on Sunday.

"It is a fact that Pilatus has been banned for a year. It is also a fact that we need spares and components for our Pilatus PC-7 MkII fleet. A 2014 government order provides for continuing business with such firms to avoid a crisis of spares. We plan to take that route and renegotiate with Pilatus as the follow-on maintenance contract has not been signed," said one of the officials cited above.


IIRC, Pilatus deal was the first to use Lifecycle costing. Even if there were no corruption scandals, just goes to show how impractical the entire approach is.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby kit » 29 Jul 2019 23:02

Aditya_V wrote:
abhik wrote:Indian Air Force signs Rs 1500 crore deal with Russia for R-27 air-to-air missiles
Looks like we are sticking to R-27s (another vote of confidence on R-77). Not clear on the numbers being ordered.


Hope this is cover for something else being purchased or taken for UAVs. Or tactics to launch R27 at long range , get the adversary in the correct tactical position for a R73/R77 take down.


One thinks the mere idea of the Meteor being certified for the LCA will keep the PAF from...flying :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Manish_Sharma » 29 Jul 2019 23:30

From wiki, various operational ranges for different models of R-27 :

R-27T: up to 40 km
R-27R: up to 80 km
R-27P: up to 80 km
R-27ER: up to 130 km
R-27ET: up to 120 km
R-27EP: up to 130 km
R-27EA: up to 130 km
R-27EM: up to 170 km

Guidance
system
semi-active radar homing (A/C), active-radar-homing (R-27EA), infrared homing (B/D), passive radar (E/F)

The R-27 is manufactured in infrared-homing (R-27T),[4] semi-active-radar-homing (R-27R),[5] and active-radar-homing (R-27EA)[6] versions, in both Russia and Ukraine. The R-27 missile is carried by the Mikoyan MiG-29 and Sukhoi Su-27 fighters, and some of the later-model MiG-23MLD fighters have also been adapted to carry it. The R-27 missile is also license-produced in China,[citation needed] though the production license was bought from Ukraine instead of Russia.

R-27R AA-10 Alamo-A, semi-active radar homing. Missile can be used at 20 to 25,000 meters altitude (launch platform or target). Effective kill range for a target at same altitude: 2 to 42.5 km head-on, 0.7 to 7.5 km tail-on. Maximum range: 73 km. Maximum allowed vertical separation between target and launch platform: +/− 10 km.[7]
R-27T AA-10 Alamo-B, infrared homing, passive homing using the Avtomatika 9B-1032 (PRGS-27) IR seeker head. Missile can be used at 20 to 25,000 meters altitude. Effective kill range for a target at same altitude: 2 to 33 km head-on, 0 to 5.5 km tail-on. Maximum range: 63 km. Maximum allowed vertical separation: +/−10 km.[7]
R-27ER AA-10 Alamo-C, the semi-active-radar homing extended-range version. Missile can be used at 20 to 27,000 meters altitude. Effective kill range for a target at same altitude: 2 to 65.5 km head-on, 0.7 to 16.5 km tail-on. Missile cannot be fired at altitude less than 3 km against a target with background earth, if launch range is less than 6 kilometers. Maximum range: 117 km. Maximum allowed vertical separation: 12 km.[7]
R-27ET AA-10 Alamo-D, the infrared-homing extended-range version, Weight 348 kg. Missile can be used at 20 to 27,000 meters altitude. Effective kill range: 2 to 52.5 km head-on, 0.7 to 12.5 tail-on. Maximum range: 104 km. Maximum allowed vertical separation: 12 km.[7]
R-27R and ER variants can be used in any meteorological conditions. Launch can made at less than 5 g overload and less 50 deg/s roll rate.[7] It is allowed to redesignate targets during flight, or sharing target illumination with other aircraft.

R-27T and ET variants can be used out of cloudiness, at least 15 degrees away from the bearing of sun, and 4 degrees away from the bearing of moon and ground-based head-contrasting conditions. In cases of maximum head-on range launches where lock-command cannot be utilised, missile can be fired in PPS: In this mode, missile will fly straight until achieves target lock. As missile lacks capability of maneuvering before lock, aircraft itself must maneuver so that missile will be pointed to no more than 15 degrees bearing of the target for confident capture by the IR seeker after launch. Equalising altitude is recommended but not required.[8] On combat operations section of the Su-27 manual, this mode of usage is especially recommended for head-on usage for passive attacks at targets with 0 degrees approach angle (i.e. another fighter moving to intercept), leaving target unalerted to incoming missile.[9] Launch can be made at 0 to 7 g, but limited to 6 g if roll induced slip is more than 2× diameter of the ball.[7]

Image

Image

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-27_(a ... ir_missile)

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Cain Marko » 30 Jul 2019 10:29

abhik wrote:Indian Air Force signs Rs 1500 crore deal with Russia for R-27 air-to-air missiles
Looks like we are sticking to R-27s (another vote of confidence on R-77). Not clear on the numbers being ordered.

Not sure about confidence or lack thereof in r77.... The IAF has ordered a number of r77s just recently. Perhaps they are just replenishing older stocks or getting very long ranged versions. IIRC the mki could do some serious shit even with the r27s because of their long range and the bars.

One thing to note is that the russkis have never been too clear about their missile upgrades other than some generic stuff. For eg. It was not known that the he r77 had a life lofted profile until much later...

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karan M » 30 Jul 2019 13:36

Supposedly, these are brand new EA variants reported by an ITAR TASS reporter (Alexander Tomas, ITAR TASS bureau chief in Delhi) in a podcast. He said Russia recently landed its first export contract for R-27 EA, and then this order.
If anyone can find the link, that would be great.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby abhik » 30 Jul 2019 18:36

I doubt we ordered both R-77 and R-27 (no proof really), hopefully we see follow on orders for Astra soon.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ashishvikas » 30 Jul 2019 23:09

ashishvikas wrote:
Rakesh wrote:No need to import trainer aircraft, HTT 40 to be ready by December: HAL
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 423760.cms


If other nations are ready to place orders, why doesn't @HALHQBLR set up the production infrastructure for HTT-40 instead of pressing the @IAF_MCC to place an order based on speculation that Spin trials would be successfully completed by Dec.?

Spin trials have been underway since November 2018. Why have they not been completed? Clearly, the design is being tweaked. In the case of HJT-36, @HALHQBLR first attempted Spin trials in 2011 but till date, despite a deep redesign, hasn't been able to spin the aircraft.

@HALHQBLR 's optimism aside, in January 2019, the IAF based on a review of its contracts with HAL, told the government that HTT-40 certification was unlikely before 2021!

https://t.co/rucoXdEQ9L


Harsh Vardhan replies

Sir
2 turn spins being done regularly. Spins in clean config done. Ac spun with add on ventrals & dorsal. Now fine tuning with single ventral. Optimisation for trainees is must.
Production infra is ready. 3 additional airframes prepared. @IAF_MCC may start evaluating formally.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Kartik » 31 Jul 2019 04:28

Karan M wrote:Supposedly, these are brand new EA variants reported by an ITAR TASS reporter (Alexander Tomas, ITAR TASS bureau chief in Delhi) in a podcast. He said Russia recently landed its first export contract for R-27 EA, and then this order.
If anyone can find the link, that would be great.


Really do hope it is the R-27EA. I was hoping the same, after reading up on the different R-27 variants that exist. The R-27EA reportedly has 130 km range and Agat's 9B-1103K active seeker that are software programmable digital seekers.

Way back in 2000, Agat had unveiled a new class of seekers [url=https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/agat-shows-active-radar-seeker-69042/]that could be used for long range air to air missiles and featured a seeker that could acquire a 5 sqm target at upto 40 km range. Could it be that the reported Russian air to air missile that was tested off Odisha's coast against a maneuvering Banshee target was a R-27?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Indranil » 31 Jul 2019 05:20

ashishvikas wrote:Harsh Vardhan replies

Sir
2 turn spins being done regularly. Spins in clean config done. Ac spun with add on ventrals & dorsal. Now fine tuning with single ventral. Optimisation for trainees is must.
Production infra is ready. 3 additional airframes prepared. @IAF_MCC may start evaluating formally.

Nice update.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 31 Jul 2019 11:49

https://zeenews.india.com/india/vympel-r-73e-all-about-russias-air-to-air-missile-iaf-is-buying-for-sukhoi-su-30-mkis-2223290.html

Vympel R-73E (extended range) air-to-air guided missile is a weapon which will soon be acquired by the Indian Air Force (IAF) and fitted on its frontline Sukhoi Su-30 MKI fighters. The $215 million deal between India and Russia for about 300 Vympel R-73E missiles was signed on Monday


IAF's MiG-21 Bison, MiG-29 UPG and Sukhoi Su-30 MKIs can carry the R-73E missile for a close-range dogfight with enemy aircraft. During the aerial combat on February 27, 2019, IAF Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman flying a MiG-21 Bison had shot down a Pakistani Air Force F-16 Fighting Falcon using an R-73 missile. The IAF has also managed to mate the R-73 missile with Mirage 2000, the French fighter in its arsenal.


Any significance here that we are getting an extended Range variant

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 31 Jul 2019 11:52

https://tass.com/defense/1070981

Russia has inked a deal with India on the delivery of about 1,000 air-launched missiles, the press office of Russia’s Federal Service for Military and Technical Cooperation told TASS on Tuesday.


"Indeed, quite large contracts on air-launched missiles were signed some time ago. They stipulate the delivery of about 1,000 missiles of various designation to India," the federal agency said.


The contract is worth 15 billion rupees (over $200 million). The purchased missiles have an extended range and will allow fighter jets to strike enemy aircraft at large distances, the agency stated.


https://www.aninews.in/news/national/general-news/india-russia-sign-rs-1500-crore-deal-for-air-to-air-missiles-to-be-used-by-su-3020190729180503/

ANI link which does not allow to copy states the R-27 missile being purchased is an extended range variant to be fitted on the SU-30 MKI's

So what is break up of these 1000 AAM

1) 300 R73E - extended range variant ?
2) R-77 RVV-AE or R-77-1 or RVV-SD - how many
3) R-27 which variant- how many
4) Any RVV-BD?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Cain Marko » 31 Jul 2019 12:41

Aditya_V wrote:https://tass.com/defense/1070981

Russia has inked a deal with India on the delivery of about 1,000 air-launched missiles, the press office of Russia’s Federal Service for Military and Technical Cooperation told TASS on Tuesday.


"Indeed, quite large contracts on air-launched missiles were signed some time ago. They stipulate the delivery of about 1,000 missiles of various designation to India," the federal agency said.


The contract is worth 15 billion rupees (over $200 million). The purchased missiles have an extended range and will allow fighter jets to strike enemy aircraft at large distances, the agency stated.


https://www.aninews.in/news/national/general-news/india-russia-sign-rs-1500-crore-deal-for-air-to-air-missiles-to-be-used-by-su-3020190729180503/

ANI link which does not allow to copy states the R-27 missile being purchased is an extended range variant to be fitted on the SU-30 MKI's

So what is break up of these 1000 AAM

1) 300 R73E - extended range variant ?
2) R-77 RVV-AE or R-77-1 or RVV-SD - how many
3) R-27 which variant- how many
4) Any RVV-BD?

This is probably in response to the lessons from balakot... Very interesting. The next fight is going to be totally lopsided

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 31 Jul 2019 12:56

Hopefully it will be backed by Killer instinct from the IAF to ignore all rules and ROE's but nail the PAF.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby deejay » 31 Jul 2019 17:53

Karan M wrote:Supposedly, these are brand new EA variants reported by an ITAR TASS reporter (Alexander Tomas, ITAR TASS bureau chief in Delhi) in a podcast. He said Russia recently landed its first export contract for R-27 EA, and then this order.
If anyone can find the link, that would be great.


This was the emergency buy post Balakot.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 01 Aug 2019 00:07

From Abhinandan’s MiG-21 To Rafale & Apache Missions, IAF Unveils New Mobile Game
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2019/07 ... -game.html

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 01 Aug 2019 01:01

Aditya_V wrote:Hopefully it will be backed by Killer instinct from the IAF to ignore all rules and ROE's but nail the PAF.


Basically you want IAF pilots to disobey orders.
And with this template will outrage later.

Is this fair with 10K posts to argue for such line of thinking?

ramana

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Y. Kanan » 01 Aug 2019 01:12

Russia begins serial production of SU-57 stealth fighter
https://thediplomat.com/2019/07/governm ... h-fighter/

"India withdrew in 2018 from the co-development and production of the Su-57, known in India as the Perspective Multi-role Fighter (PMF). Earlier this month, the Russian government once more offered India to resume co-development of the aircraft."


What do our resident experts make of this?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 01 Aug 2019 01:21

I ain't no resident expert, but this is classic Russian double-speak.

We do not want to fund the development. You fund it and we will buy it and we will let you in on screwdrivergiri.

India's official response to date is ---> You complete development, induct it and we will buy a few squadrons worth.

There lies the impasse. The Su-30MKI, Vikramaditya, MiG-29K episodes are fresh in the minds of Indian military planners.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karan M » 01 Aug 2019 01:50

So, around 300 RVV-MD (R73 with extended range), around 300-400 RVV-AE (or RVV-SD) and 300 odd R-27 ER/TE or R-27 AE.

Could be standard ER1's as well. Check page 50 for a good overview of the R-27.
https://issuu.com/ukrainian_defense_rev ... ly18_prewi

Interestingly enough it states the R-27 TE has inertial guidance as well (a huge +) and the offboard scan angles of both classes of missile are substantial, and the range advantage (130km/100km) of the R27ER1 may well allow it to outrange the AMRAAM C5. In short, the SAR guided missile may hit the AMRAAM firer before the AMRAAM seeker can go terminal and the aircraft can break away! Range matters.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby LakshmanPST » 01 Aug 2019 08:57

Rakesh wrote:The Su-30MKI, Vikramaditya, MiG-29K episodes are fresh in the minds of Indian military planners.


What happened with Su30 MKI...? Did it face similar problems like MIG 29K...?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Khalsa » 01 Aug 2019 14:33

LakshmanPST wrote:
Rakesh wrote:The Su-30MKI, Vikramaditya, MiG-29K episodes are fresh in the minds of Indian military planners.

What happened with Su30 MKI...? Did it face similar problems like MIG 29K...?

Here here, he cuts its like the Knife going through butter. Rakman.

What the good Admiral is saying is that we went in that model and got nothing of substance that we can iteratively develop ourselves.
Today, as we talk about upgrading the SU-30, those talks are with the Russians not with just DRDO & HAL.

Can you imagine the Chinese talking to Russians to upgrade their copycat flanker family?? LOL

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby srai » 01 Aug 2019 18:17

Karan M wrote:So, around 300 RVV-MD (R73 with extended range), around 300-400 RVV-AE (or RVV-SD) and 300 odd R-27 ER/TE or R-27 AE.

Could be standard ER1's as well. Check page 50 for a good overview of the R-27.
https://issuu.com/ukrainian_defense_rev ... ly18_prewi

Interestingly enough it states the R-27 TE has inertial guidance as well (a huge +) and the offboard scan angles of both classes of missile are substantial, and the range advantage (130km/100km) of the R27ER1 may well allow it to outrange the AMRAAM C5. In short, the SAR guided missile may hit the AMRAAM firer before the AMRAAM seeker can go terminal and the aircraft can break away! Range matters.


According to that magazine, in 2013 India bought 400 missiles (180 R-27ER1, 180 R-27ET1, and 40 captive training rounds). Probably the recent orders would have a similar breakdown in quantities between the ER1 and ET1.

* 130 (100) km R-27ER (ER1) (radio-inertial mid-course and SAR terminal)

* 120 (80) km R-27ET (ET1) (omnidirectional passive IR)

That article also mentions R-27AE (radio-inertial mid-course and active RF terminal) is currently under R&D.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 01 Aug 2019 18:42

Not sure if its timesnow or something else but..

IAF to buy SDRs from Israel to ensure secure communication between fighter jets
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/arti ... ets/461569

Didnt we already have SDRs and i remember this being repudiated while discussing the hushkit interview of balakot strike

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby JTull » 01 Aug 2019 19:08

The SDR order looks like an acknowledgement that our comms were compromised on 27th Feb.

naird
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby naird » 01 Aug 2019 19:44

ArjunPandit wrote:Not sure if its timesnow or something else but..

IAF to buy SDRs from Israel to ensure secure communication between fighter jets
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/arti ... ets/461569

Didnt we already have SDRs and i remember this being repudiated while discussing the hushkit interview of balakot strike


There was a RFI that Airforce brought out last year i believe for SDR for close to 3000 odd sets. So i dont think we ever had SDR.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby srin » 01 Aug 2019 19:55

JTull wrote:The SDR order looks like an acknowledgement that our comms were compromised on 27th Feb.


Isn't it possible to have encrypted communications with traditional hardware DSP based radios ?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Prasad » 01 Aug 2019 21:55

Afaik, this isn't a new procurement. This was in the works for more than a year now. IAI won the tender even before AI '19.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 01 Aug 2019 22:23

So basically this was DDM at its best again?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karan M » 01 Aug 2019 23:47

Whatd'ya know, my numbers/guesses were right. :wink:

https://www.janes.com/article/90192/ind ... r-missiles

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has signed deals with Russia worth about USD700 million for an additional 1,000 air-to-air missiles (AAMs) to arm its fleets of MiG and Sukhoi combat aircraft.

Military sources in Moscow and New Delhi told Jane’s on 30 July that the order for the AAMs, which was placed in early July, is for about 300 R-27 (AA-10 ‘Alamo’) infrared-guided (IR) or semi-active radar-guided, medium-to-long-range missiles; 300 R-73E (AA-11 ‘Archer’) IR-guided, short-range missiles; and 400 R-77 (AA-12 ‘Adder’) active radar-guided, medium-range missiles.

The sources said the R-27R1/ER1 and R-27T1/ET1 variants, which are fitted with semi-active and passive infrared seekers, would arm the IAF’s Sukhoi Su-30MKI and upgraded MiG-29M fighters. Moreover, they said that the R-77 and R-73 AAMs would also be carried by the IAF’s MiG-21 ‘Bison’ fighters.

Some of the R-73s might also arm the IAF’s fleet of Mirage 2000H fighters, but this has yet to be confirmed.


I also noted this 10-I clearance authorization would make a significant difference to our warfighting capability, allowing services to bypass the RFI/RFP rigmarole for repeat/obvious purchases. Glad to be proven right!

Military sources in New Delhi said the missiles were being acquired under the Ministry of Defence’s (MoD’s) 10-I (Intense) provision, which mandates that all three military services stockpile ammunition and stores for 10 days of “intense warfare”.

The AAM procurements are being carried out under the recently enhanced financial powers of the three services, which enable them to make ‘emergency’ materiel purchases of up to INR5 billion (USD72.7 million) each time to maintain prescribed war wastage reserves (WWR)






Karan M wrote:So, around 300 RVV-MD (R73 with extended range), around 300-400 RVV-AE (or RVV-SD) and 300 odd R-27 ER/TE or R-27 AE.

Could be standard ER1's as well. Check page 50 for a good overview of the R-27.
https://issuu.com/ukrainian_defense_rev ... ly18_prewi

Interestingly enough it states the R-27 TE has inertial guidance as well (a huge +) and the offboard scan angles of both classes of missile are substantial, and the range advantage (130km/100km) of the R27ER1 may well allow it to outrange the AMRAAM C5. In short, the SAR guided missile may hit the AMRAAM firer before the AMRAAM seeker can go terminal and the aircraft can break away! Range matters.


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