Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby nachiket » 11 Oct 2019 03:20

Kartik wrote:What could have happened is that they may have been upgraded since the Feb 26th mission.

But the Avenger formation was the formation of Su-30MKI and Mirage-2000I fighters right? No.9 Wolfpack squadron might have had a mix of upgraded and non-upgraded fighters..the non-upgraded ones were used as Spice-2000 carriers, whereas the upgraded Mirage-2000Is were used for BARCAP missions the day after.

It cannot have been a single formation. The Su-30's and Mirages were patrolling in two separate places. The Mirages in the fly past were not the ones used during Feb 27. They were part of the group that attacked Balakot. I think since they flew during the flypast with the Su-30's used on Feb 27 people got confused.

The "Avenger" formation is basically the 2 Su-30's which evaded all those AMRAAMs without a scratch. The 2 Mirage-2000I's which engaged the other Paki formation of JF-17's and Mirage-5's were not part of the flypast as far as I can tell.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby titash » 11 Oct 2019 03:36

Kartik wrote:
LakshmanPST wrote:
So, the 36 jets bought now are bought for mainly nuke delivery...?


As long as the Mirage-2000 is in our fleet, it is the primary nuke delivery platform. I don't expect that will change any time in the 2020s. The Rafale brings a lot more to the table than just a strategic nuke delivery capability.


On that note, how are "special packages" delivered in the India-Pak context? free fall bombs or standoff missiles? The survivability of aircraft in increasingly SAM and MANPADS rich environment would mandate stand off capability. But then our towns are hardly 100km from each other

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby nachiket » 11 Oct 2019 03:43

srai wrote:^^^
It’s not as black or white type as both are alluding to. At various stages of procurement, each has a prime role in making a decision. One area that the IAF has control over is the specs and quantities it requires. Whereas GoI ministries (MoD, MoF and various committees) are primarily in control over fund allocation.

My point was that after the GoI rejected the IAF's demand for 126 Mirage-2000's and compelled them to go in for a multi-vendor procurement, the French removed the M2k from the competition since they couldn't keep the line open and did not want it to compete against larger and more modern (and expensive) platforms.

So how could IAF have "forced" the outcome? It was the GoI which forced the outcome when they made that decision.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby nachiket » 11 Oct 2019 03:45

titash wrote:On that note, how are "special packages" delivered in the India-Pak context? free fall bombs or standoff missiles? The survivability of aircraft in increasingly SAM and MANPADS rich environment would mandate stand off capability. But then our towns are hardly 100km from each other

Free-fall bombs. The only standoff missile we can use for that purpose is the Brahmos. And we are only just getting the capability to air-launch it. I don't know if we even have any nuke-tipped Brahmos available yet. Probably not.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Kartik » 11 Oct 2019 04:51

The commitment to buy HTT-40s as the next BTA could not have come at a better time. the ban on Pilatus has been relaxed, primarily to allow for the spares and maintenance issues to be resolved.

India relaxes Pilatus ban

The Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) partially lifted its one-year prohibition on doing business with Pilatus on 7 October - but only if the Swiss aircraft manufacturer meets certain stipulations.

Under the 7 October announcement, the Indian Air Force (IAF) can now access spare parts and maintenance support for its fleet of 75 Pilatus PC-7 Mk II tandem-seat basic trainer aircraft, which were ordered for about USD1 billion in 2012 to replace Deepak HPT‐32s. The contract included offset obligations.

However, there are several provisos: the IAF must obtain a 'mean time between failures'-linked warranty from Pilatus in the next three or four months and make headway on the follow-on support contract for the PC-7 fleet as soon as possible.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby srai » 11 Oct 2019 05:22

With all the scandals that occur with defense deals in India, multi-vendor (or G2G more recently) approach is the one preferred by the GoI. Not that it means corruption free but a semblance of “transparent” competition to down select finalists and pick a winner on lowest offer. There was a huge corruption scandal around the time of 126 Mirage-2000 talk.

In this type of “competitive” scenario, the IAF here can tweak its RFI/RFP to favor one platform over the other. That’s the type of “influence” it can dictate. The GoI will then need to find a way to fund the choice.

nachiket wrote:
srai wrote:^^^
It’s not as black or white type as both are alluding to. At various stages of procurement, each has a prime role in making a decision. One area that the IAF has control over is the specs and quantities it requires. Whereas GoI ministries (MoD, MoF and various committees) are primarily in control over fund allocation.

My point was that after the GoI rejected the IAF's demand for 126 Mirage-2000's and compelled them to go in for a multi-vendor procurement, the French removed the M2k from the competition since they couldn't keep the line open and did not want it to compete against larger and more modern (and expensive) platforms.

So how could IAF have "forced" the outcome? It was the GoI which forced the outcome when they made that decision.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby manjgu » 11 Oct 2019 07:37

big defence deals are as much about politics/corruption as its about defence. In the augusta westland deal, since sonia wanted a italian chopper, the specs were altered by IAF on sonia's behest to favour augusta. So its not that IAF tweaks specs on its own will. Political interference is always there.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Manish_Sharma » 11 Oct 2019 09:15

nachiket wrote: I don't know if we even have any nuke-tipped Brahmos available yet. Probably not.


In Bramhos there's no Volume Space for our tested warheads.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karan M » 11 Oct 2019 11:31

Kartik wrote:What could have happened is that they may have been upgraded since the Feb 26th mission.

But the Avenger formation was the formation of Su-30MKI and Mirage-2000I fighters right? No.9 Wolfpack squadron might have had a mix of upgraded and non-upgraded fighters..the non-upgraded ones were used as Spice-2000 carriers, whereas the upgraded Mirage-2000Is were used for BARCAP missions the day after.


I think this is just a confusion about the name. The Avengers were basically the 2 MKIs, whereas the Balakot strike guys were in middle. Apparently, at least one of the Su-30 crews also took part in the strike on Feb 26th, so it accounts for the common name used for the formation.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chetak » 11 Oct 2019 15:08

twitter


Genealogical tree of Su-27/30 family until Su-30 MKI




Image

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Kakarat » 11 Oct 2019 17:16

Can someone translate and tell me which squadron this belongs to

Image

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Dennis » 11 Oct 2019 17:37

158 Helicopter Unit, I believe.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Kakarat » 11 Oct 2019 17:41

Dennis wrote:158 Helicopter Unit, I believe.

Thank you

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby nachiket » 11 Oct 2019 23:58

It is written in Devanagri on the patch if you look closely.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Kakarat » 12 Oct 2019 02:11

I saw that but I don't know the language

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby wig » 14 Oct 2019 09:52

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 572319.cms

IAF base in Pathankot to get 'impregnable' shield by Dec
excerpts
“The pilot project of the integrated perimeter security system (IPSS) at the Pathankot airbase will be completed by November-December. It will then be replicated in other bases,” says IAF chief Air Chief Marshal R K S Bhadauria.

and
IPSS, which is a “comprehensive multi-sensor, multi-layered, hi-tech surveillance and intrusion detection system”, at 23 “sensitive and high-risk” airbases. Concurrently, the force is also pushing the case for “electric smart power fences” for 19 other air stations.


The IPSS includes “a smart perimeter fence” with different t ..with different types of electro-optic and motion-detection surveillance sensors

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby wig » 14 Oct 2019 10:29

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/ ... 47030.html

IAF wants new Russian MiG-29s to be equipped with indigenous weapons
Sources said there are other indigenous equipment and weapons which would be integrated with the aircraft once the deal comes through.
excerpts
Force is planning to acquire the new 21 MiG-29 fighters from Russia and equip them with indigenous weapon systems such as the Astra air to air missile.

and
IAF had carried out a study to check if the airframes of the MiG-29s on offer were good enough for it to operate for a long time. MiG-29s are flown by the IAF and the pilots are familiar with it but the ones offered by the Russians are different from the ones in the Indian inventory.

The Indian Navy also operates the MiG-29 'K' and is the only operator of this version of the plane. It is having a rough experience with the planes which are difficult to maintain and their settings change immediately after they land on the aircraft carrier.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Haridas » 14 Oct 2019 11:04

sajaym wrote:
srai wrote:[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGVd63-VUAEcP_M.jpg


In this pic the Su-30s almost look like some alien spaceships. I think that on 27th Feb one of the Su-30s must have made some extreme maneuver using thrust vectoring and KOE flying, to avoid the AMRAAMs fired by the Pakis. And this might have caused the Su-30 to disappear from the Paki fighter and AWACs radar screens. Only this scenario seems to explain the confidence with which Paki birathers are claiming an Su-30 kill all over the internet.

No aerodynamic maneuver impacts radar physics. The RCS is all that matters, and SU30 has bhim-kaayaa.
Last edited by Haridas on 14 Oct 2019 11:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Haridas » 14 Oct 2019 11:15

Rahul M wrote:^^^
That's grossly unfair to the IAF. All they had asked for was 125 M2K, way back in 2001. Given that the LCA was still years away and the earlier MiG s were getting long in the tooth, this was an entirely rational quest to maintain IAF's combat potential at a reasonable cost.
It is hardly their fault that the babucracy converted that quest into a 2 decades long circus to choose an aircraft we can't afford.

Lot of water flew down the river when 125 M2000 were asked, to the time when MMRCA ASR made by Air Commodore Mateshwaran (yes the same chap, in fact I have a photo with him after lunch in Kanaat (sic) place) and to the time when competing aircraft flew in compitition. The 15 years had change IAF view and 19 years later the new IAF only wanted cloud nine fighters; till of course the time now when vajra of reality was whipped by Indra ( Modi govt).

FWISW :)

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chetak » 14 Oct 2019 11:27

wig wrote:http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2019/oct/13/iaf-wants-new-russian-mig-29s-to-be-equipped-with-indigenous-weapons-2047030.html

IAF wants new Russian MiG-29s to be equipped with indigenous weapons
Sources said there are other indigenous equipment and weapons which would be integrated with the aircraft once the deal comes through.
excerpts
Force is planning to acquire the new 21 MiG-29 fighters from Russia and equip them with indigenous weapon systems such as the Astra air to air missile.

and
IAF had carried out a study to check if the airframes of the MiG-29s on offer were good enough for it to operate for a long time. MiG-29s are flown by the IAF and the pilots are familiar with it but the ones offered by the Russians are different from the ones in the Indian inventory.

The Indian Navy also operates the MiG-29 'K' and is the only operator of this version of the plane. It is having a rough experience with the planes which are difficult to maintain and their settings change immediately after they land on the aircraft carrier.



the MiG 29 operated by the IAF is a conventional aircraft while the IN MiG 29K is a four channel fly by wire aircraft. The engine used by the IN MiG 29 is modular in construction while the IAF MiG 29 has a conventional engine.

there are bound to be significant differences in the airframes of the two aircraft.

regarding the newer MiG 29s for the IAF, there may even be a generational change in the airframes.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Kakarat » 14 Oct 2019 16:25

For people interested in patch collection and military stuff
https://www.oliveplanet.in/

They also sell 1:1 usable replica PASGT helmet

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby dmun » 14 Oct 2019 19:01

chetak wrote:
wig wrote:http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2019/oct/13/iaf-wants-new-russian-mig-29s-to-be-equipped-with-indigenous-weapons-2047030.html

IAF wants new Russian MiG-29s to be equipped with indigenous weapons
Sources said there are other indigenous equipment and weapons which would be integrated with the aircraft once the deal comes through.
excerpts

and



the MiG 29 operated by the IAF is a conventional aircraft while the IN MiG 29K is a four channel fly by wire aircraft. The engine used by the IN MiG 29 is modular in construction while the IAF MiG 29 has a conventional engine.

there are bound to be significant differences in the airframes of the two aircraft.

regarding the newer MiG 29s for the IAF, there may even be a generational change in the airframes.


Which version of Mig 29 are these airframes?

Will the current Mig 29 infrastructure in place be able to support these also?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Kartik » 17 Oct 2019 11:07

Was just cribbing about how the IAF doesn't expose MiG-29 crews to international exercises in anything but a peripheral role, and then this news comes out!

So it's clear that the capabilities of the MiG-29UPG are such that the IAF top brass now feels that its the right time to really start exposing them to other Air Forces. Our MiG-29UPGs will go up against against RAFO F-16s and Typhoons at Exercise Eastern Bridge in Oman between 17-26 October, 2019. Should give the MiG-29 pilots first hand experience going up against F-16 Block 50s, which are as modern as the most modern PAF F-16 Block 52.

Hope to see many more pics from this exercise in the coming days.

Image

Image

EX EASTERN BRIDGE-V

Indian Air Force is participating in a Bilateral Joint exercise with Royal Air Force Oman (RAFO), named EX EASTERN BRIDGE-V, scheduled from 17-26 Oct 19, at Air Force Base Masirah.

The last exercise, EX EASTERN BRIDGE-IV was held in 2017 at Jamnagar. For the first time, MiG-29 fighter aircraft will be participating in an International Exercise outside India.

IAF contingent comprises of MiG-29 and C-17 aircraft. MiG-29 will be exercising with Royal Air Force Oman’s Eurofighter Typhoon, F-16 and Hawk.
The exercise will enhance inter-operability during mutual operations between the two Air Forces and will provide an opportunity to learn from each other’s best practices.

The participation of Indian Air Force in the exercise will also promote professional interaction, exchange of experience and operational knowledge. Besides strengthening bilateral relations, it will also provide a good opportunity to the air-warriors to operate in an international environment.


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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karan M » 18 Oct 2019 18:07

How can guys not like the lines of the MiG-29 Upgrade, it just looks so deadly.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Thakur_B » 18 Oct 2019 19:54

Karan M wrote:How can guys not like the lines of the MiG-29 Upgrade, it just looks so deadly.


Ugh, no thanks. It's borderline criminal what they did to Fulcrum aesthetics.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karan M » 18 Oct 2019 20:30

Pffttt... aesthetics, shesthetics. Its a brute and looks like it. :P

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Bala Vignesh » 18 Oct 2019 21:01

Yeah, but she was graceful and elegant as well earlier.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karan M » 20 Oct 2019 16:08

Guys, come on. Stop, its not funny anymore and somebody will take offence and drag the forum into some controversy. Am deleting the prior posts.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby tsarkar » 20 Oct 2019 16:18

Note no tankers from No 78 Sq are going to Oman, so the MiG-29s will be crossing the Arabian Sea in ferry mode on internal, CFT and EFT fuel. With Tejas going to Bahrain and Jaguars earlier going to Oman, crossing the Arabian Sea has become routine.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karan M » 20 Oct 2019 16:30

Pics, pics, pics.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shaun » 20 Oct 2019 21:00


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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Anujan » 21 Oct 2019 06:23

Karan M wrote:How can guys not like the lines of the MiG-29 Upgrade, it just looks so deadly.


Looks like my friend who went to the gym and only exercised his back and shoulders.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby vonkabra » 21 Oct 2019 11:37

Anujan wrote:
Karan M wrote:How can guys not like the lines of the MiG-29 Upgrade, it just looks so deadly.


Looks like my friend who went to the gym and only exercised his back and shoulders.


Talk about The Hunchback of Jamnagar...

Question - how come the MiG-29K has a similar range to the UPG but doesn't have the ugly hump?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Kartik » 21 Oct 2019 12:01

Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder. I find the MiG-29UPG to be a sexy looking jet. The forward fuselage of the MiG-29 is what I find to be the most attractive part along with its wings/empennage, and those remain the same. The way I see it, the MiG-29UPG is better looking than the "unified family" look of the MiG-29K/KUB and the MiG-29M/35. So IMO, the dorsal hump doesn't spoil the looks of the MiG-29 as much as the change in the forward fuselage.

And in fact, the knowledge that it is so much more potent than the earlier MiG-29 in IAF service, makes me look at it almost in a new light.. deadly.. And as Tsarkar pointed out, the UPGs flew all the way to Oman without any aerial refueler flying with them. It is of course possible that they were refueled mid way and then the tanker flew back to Jamnagar, but nevertheless, the improvement in endurance, range really changes the way that this fighter will be employed.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Bala Vignesh » 21 Oct 2019 14:52

The distance, as the crow flies, between Jamnagar and Masirah is just about 1200kms, well within the advertised range for internal fuel of 2100Kms of the UPG. This has me thinking why did they take extra tanks on the inboard and the ventral stations?

The UPG seen on its own, is still a gorgeous thing but when you see it with the classic MiG 29 its a bit of a downer.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Khalsa » 22 Oct 2019 13:41

Karan M wrote:Guys, come on. Stop, its not funny anymore and somebody will take offence and drag the forum into some controversy. Am deleting the prior posts.


Come on Karan. We boil and evaporate our blood screaming and scheming ...
Lets have some fun atleast sometime.
This has been the most harmless fun ever had in BRF since we used to indulge in naming aircrafts Rambha and katrina etc.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Khalsa » 22 Oct 2019 13:42

vonkabra wrote:
Anujan wrote:
Looks like my friend who went to the gym and only exercised his back and shoulders.


Talk about The Hunchback of Jamnagar...

Question - how come the MiG-29K has a similar range to the UPG but doesn't have the ugly hump?


OMG was just thinking that.
I believe the K has a bigger airframe and if you look closely you might find a slightly different designed back... albeit slightly.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Kashi » 22 Oct 2019 14:21

Kartik wrote:Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder.


And the proof of the pudding lies in eating. For that IAF upgraded Mig 29s need to prove themselves in a real combat scenario as Mirages have done (One may argue 29s did so too to an extent in Kargil).

Most certainly Bakis will perform another tactical brilliance and 29s will hopefully have their chance to kick some Baki backsides.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby fanne » 22 Oct 2019 17:13

Yup because of Mig 29 and r-77 combo, TSPAF decided to skip Kargil (winning without firing a single shot, intimidation was this high)


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