Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 21 Feb 2020 22:52

https://twitter.com/Toryu1963/status/12 ... 22082?s=20 ---> Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) built this MiG-21FL (C778) for the Bharatiya Vayu Sena (Indian Air Force). This aircraft was similar to the MiG-21PF, but had the broad chord tail fin standard on the later MiG-21PFM. A PT-21UK drag chute container is located below the rudder base.

Image

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 25 Feb 2020 06:31

Air Force could give quicker promotions in retention plan
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... igaeN.html
24 Feb 2020

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 27 Feb 2020 23:35

Must see video...

https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1233070949223759872 ---> भारतीय वायु सेना : विजयी -विकराल -विनाशक

जय हिन्द।

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Khalsa » 28 Feb 2020 14:41

Nice find admiral

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby naird » 02 Mar 2020 08:53

Not sure where to post it ! Mods can move if not appropriate .

Absolutely fantastic recordings from turkish action over syria ! They are literally advertising their capabilities - from IAF point of view , they will have to be ready since this will make way into PAF's hands

Recording of strikes using Armed drones an PGM's


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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ranjan.rao » 04 Mar 2020 21:39

not sure if this was posted earlier

Ex Indradhanush V
The Indian Air Force (IAF) and Royal Air Force (RAF) jointly commenced the fifth edition of Ex Indradhanush at Air Force Station Hindan on 24 Feb 2020. The focus of this edition of the exercise is 'Base Defence and Force Protection'. This theme is of significance considering the recent threats to military establishments from terror elements. Ex Indradhanush provides a platform for the IAF and RAF to share and jointly validate strategies and tactics to counter terror threats to their installations.

The RAF team comprises of 36 specialised combatants of the RAF Regiment while the IAF will comprise of 42 combatants of the GARUD Force. Both teams will execute missions based on jointly worked out plans and scenarios. Both sides would also exercise specialised weapons, equipment and vehicles and validate joint employability. Special missions would encompass Airfield Seizure, Base Defence and anti-terror operations in Urban built up zones. These exercises would include para drops from C-130J aircraft, tactical insertions by Mi-17 V5 helicopters and use of various airborne sensors.

The IAF as well as the RAF would gain significantly from each other's operational experience, training philosophies, contemporary technologies and best practices followed. A few social, sports and cultural events have been interspersed during the exercise to enhance bonhomie and mutual understanding. The exercise would formaly conclude on 29 Feb 2020.

seems like IAF/indian military is also honing skills to protect/sabotage from WVR/BVR in addition. Interesting development i must say...

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby MeshaVishwas » 06 Mar 2020 20:17


Thanks to Sqn Ldr(?) Sameer Joshi on Twitterverse for the share.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shaun » 06 Mar 2020 21:33

Excellent no nonsense video.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 08 Mar 2020 22:06


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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 08 Mar 2020 22:07

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/12362 ... 80353?s=20 ---> So as the first DARIN-3 Jags quietly ferried to their base yesterday, more being flight tested for induction. A former spearhead of strike fleet, operators still squeezing out performance from this work-horse. Good that even the tail of an offensive package will be strong.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 08 Mar 2020 22:08


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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 08 Mar 2020 22:24

If needed, please move this post to another appropriate thread...

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/12362 ... 45249?s=20 ---> Air Force, Navy & international partners very keen on Hawk-i features on the existing fleets.

Image

https://twitter.com/arpansow1/status/12 ... 75873?s=20 ---> Can the Hawk be modified as a tank killer? Like the A-10?

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/12364 ... 31840?s=20 ---> Yes. IAF's SFW will get integrated.

https://twitter.com/arpansow1/status/12 ... 72288?s=20 ---> Sir what about an iconic gun? A "tank killer" gun?

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/12365 ... 98881?s=20 ---> We use our cannons on gunships, ALHs etc for the same task. USAF deals with out of area contingencies, where target areas are far from their launch base. They need fixed wing, long range aircraft. Hence A-10. Our area of interest is closer. Choppers do the job equally well.

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/12361 ... 40288?s=20 ---> Gearing up for service deployment. The little iota (i) on #Hawk-i has ratled many. Quietly elevating the benchmark for fleet upgrades.

Image

https://twitter.com/TheAlbatross15/stat ... 36896?s=20 ---> Any chances of the Indian Air Force ordering some?

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/12362 ... 74689?s=20 ---> 20

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chola » 08 Mar 2020 23:25

I wonder if IAF has something a similar program in case we lose GPS.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3074154/american-spy-plane-pilots-use-chinas-satellite-navigation


American spy plane pilots use China’s satellite navigation system as a backup to GPS on their missions, according to a US Air Force general.

...

While the Global Positioning System (GPS) is the first choice for pilots of U-2 “Dragon Lady” reconnaissance aircraft, Beidou, along with Russia’s Glonass and Europe’s Galileo, serves as an alternative in the event of GPS being unavailable.

“My U-2 guys fly with a watch now that ties into GPS, but also Beidou and the Russian system and the European system,” US Air Combat Command Chief General James Holmes said at a conference in Washington on Wednesday.


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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby NRao » 09 Mar 2020 00:17

chola wrote:I wonder if IAF has something a similar program in case we lose GPS.

Buy Garmin D2 Charlie watches.

https://www.airforce-technology.com/new ... -2-pilots/

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 09 Mar 2020 12:02

I thought that armed Hawk proposal was canned because of costs? We need an armed trainer/ GA bird to support ground forces in an integrated manner. More survivable than attahk helos.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby deejay » 09 Mar 2020 12:19

Philip wrote:I thought that armed Hawk proposal was canned because of costs? We need an armed trainer/ GA bird to support ground forces in an integrated manner. More survivable than attahk helos.


Have people here heard of AD flights composed of Kiran MkIIs?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby RKumar » 09 Mar 2020 14:20

Rakesh wrote:If needed, please move this post to another appropriate thread...

https://twitter.com/TheAlbatross15/stat ... 36896?s=20 ---> Any chances of the Indian Air Force ordering some?

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/12362 ... 74689?s=20 ---> 20


Welcome to the IAF circus :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby deejay » 09 Mar 2020 14:52

RKumar wrote:
Rakesh wrote:If needed, please move this post to another appropriate thread...

https://twitter.com/TheAlbatross15/stat ... 36896?s=20 ---> Any chances of the Indian Air Force ordering some?

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/12362 ... 74689?s=20 ---> 20


Welcome to the IAF circus :rotfl:


What do you mean Sir?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby RKumar » 09 Mar 2020 20:24

deejay wrote:
RKumar wrote:
Welcome to the IAF circus :rotfl:


What do you mean Sir?


I was hoping IAF will consolidate their types as older generations get retired. While we are still waiting for LCA MK1A orders, MoD might choose to buy 20 of these, 36 of those, 114 of those and 57 of those. Then who is stopping to buy 36 of Su-57 and 36 of F-21/F-35/F-15.

I should also leave and take a break like Modi ji from social media for some time :evil:

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Kartik » 10 Mar 2020 23:48

Hawk-i is nothing more than an advanced Hawk, based on the Hawk Mk 132 that we already have. It can continue to be used to train pilots, so it isn't really adding a new type, but rather bringing a whole range of new capabilities. So far from being a circus, this is sensible. In fact, an order for 20 more Hawk Mk 132s was supposed to have been placed a while ago, but now it seems the IAF will place orders for the Hawk-i instead, which makes sense.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Kartik » 10 Mar 2020 23:51

deejay wrote:
Philip wrote:I thought that armed Hawk proposal was canned because of costs? We need an armed trainer/ GA bird to support ground forces in an integrated manner. More survivable than attahk helos.


Have people here heard of AD flights composed of Kiran MkIIs?


Air Defence with Kiran MkIIs? Rudimentary capability at best, but against what type of threat was this going to work. No radar, so would need to be ground controlled right till it would spot the enemy visually. Which missile was integrated with it?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rahul M » 11 Mar 2020 00:16

Might be effective against choppers?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby manjgu » 11 Mar 2020 07:57

maybe also to shore up numbers.... give impression of large no of planes up for AD ?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby deejay » 11 Mar 2020 10:16

Kartik wrote:
deejay wrote:
Have people here heard of AD flights composed of Kiran MkIIs?


Air Defence with Kiran MkIIs? Rudimentary capability at best, but against what type of threat was this going to work. No radar, so would need to be ground controlled right till it would spot the enemy visually. Which missile was integrated with it?


They had spare MkIIs once the SuryaKirans moved onto Hawks. No other answers.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby agupta » 11 Mar 2020 10:25

deejay wrote:
Philip wrote:I thought that armed Hawk proposal was canned because of costs? We need an armed trainer/ GA bird to support ground forces in an integrated manner. More survivable than attahk helos.


Have people here heard of AD flights composed of Kiran MkIIs?



Come on Deejay-ji, spill it and educate us... clearly no one has and we're all scratching our heads !

I can speculate it as a jugaad anti-UAV, anti-chopper type AD "home guard" ... perhaps an older construct before armed helicopters with Air-to-Air missiles became part of IAF ORBAT in sufficient numbers ? Or perhaps these are coming in too slowly and too few ?

AFAIK, we only have 7.62mm MG pods for the Kirans; and so far we've not developed or heard of any APKWS/K-LOGIR type system that "could" be adapted for air-to-air use. Although much of the building blocks are now coming available, so a desi K-LOGIR with our own LCITS would be awesome for many reasons

https://armyrecognition.com/adex_2017_o ... _time.html

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby deejay » 11 Mar 2020 10:42

RKumar wrote:
deejay wrote:
What do you mean Sir?


I was hoping IAF will consolidate their types as older generations get retired. While we are still waiting for LCA MK1A orders, MoD might choose to buy 20 of these, 36 of those, 114 of those and 57 of those. Then who is stopping to buy 36 of Su-57 and 36 of F-21/F-35/F-15.

I should also leave and take a break like Modi ji from social media for some time :evil:


I will say, stay on. No need to take a break.

My point is simple - Air Forces across the world of our size have multiple types. Homogenising the fleet that even USAF would want but can't. Within the constraints of time, monetary resources, political directions, threat, etc - the present IAF mix is IMHO balanced. Its mostly 03 major sources of fighters - Russia, France and UK. Now we have a few Indian made fighters (Kiran Mk IIs & Tejas) and that tribe will increase. We have 76 planned from France so far,(M2Ks & Rafale) both types from Dassault and the Brits have sold us Jaguars and Hawks. The Russian inventory is the biggest and will remain so for some time and will shortly have only 02 types (Mig 29s and Su 30s with Mig 21s being eased out). So we have four major hubs to source and manage aircraft spares etc since mostly all of these need Govt blessing both at home and abroad. We have vintage going back to '70s so a lot of what we currently have was planned and bought before contemporary fighters were prototyping and yet we are by and large well equipped.

I'd say, its hardly a circus given that we all know how hard it has been for us to procure aircraft.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby deejay » 11 Mar 2020 10:43

agupta wrote:...

Come on Deejay-ji, spill it and educate us... clearly no one has and we're all scratching our heads !

I can speculate it as a jugaad anti-UAV, anti-chopper type AD "home guard" ... perhaps an older construct before armed helicopters with Air-to-Air missiles became part of IAF ORBAT in sufficient numbers ? Or perhaps these are coming in too slowly and too few ?

AFAIK, we only have 7.62mm MG pods for the Kirans; and so far we've not developed or heard of any APKWS/K-LOGIR type system that "could" be adapted for air-to-air use. Although much of the building blocks are now coming available, so a desi K-LOGIR with our own LCITS would be awesome for many reasons

https://armyrecognition.com/adex_2017_o ... _time.html


You are right. Something like a slow moving CAS solution we were talking about on the forum. I am not sure this is permanent.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby srin » 11 Mar 2020 11:16

agupta wrote:
deejay wrote:
Have people here heard of AD flights composed of Kiran MkIIs?



Come on Deejay-ji, spill it and educate us... clearly no one has and we're all scratching our heads !

I can speculate it as a jugaad anti-UAV, anti-chopper type AD "home guard" ... perhaps an older construct before armed helicopters with Air-to-Air missiles became part of IAF ORBAT in sufficient numbers ? Or perhaps these are coming in too slowly and too few ?

AFAIK, we only have 7.62mm MG pods for the Kirans; and so far we've not developed or heard of any APKWS/K-LOGIR type system that "could" be adapted for air-to-air use. Although much of the building blocks are now coming available, so a desi K-LOGIR with our own LCITS would be awesome for many reasons

https://armyrecognition.com/adex_2017_o ... _time.html


Interesting if we can improve the Kiran design to make it an unmanned air interceptor aircraft slaved to GC or to manned aircraft. I don't know what its endurance is, but by getting rid of cockpit and other pilot infra, its empty weight can be brought down to help it carry a couple of medium range missiles without affecting its endurance.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby RKumar » 11 Mar 2020 17:14

Kartik wrote:Hawk-i is nothing more than an advanced Hawk, based on the Hawk Mk 132 that we already have. It can continue to be used to train pilots, so it isn't really adding a new type, but rather bringing a whole range of new capabilities. So far from being a circus, this is sensible. In fact, an order for 20 more Hawk Mk 132s was supposed to have been placed a while ago, but now it seems the IAF will place orders for the Hawk-i instead, which makes sense.


MoD/IAF don't want to order three-legged cheeta but ready to order one-legged chicken. IAF is crying wolves, that they don't have a way to deal with JF-17 and F-16 and what do they expect from Hawk?? I think imports can help everyone to go innovative and local products make them sick. :roll:

PS: Sorry for ranting but could not help!!
Last edited by RKumar on 11 Mar 2020 17:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby RKumar » 11 Mar 2020 17:23

deejay wrote:
RKumar wrote:
I was hoping IAF will consolidate their types as older generations get retired. While we are still waiting for LCA MK1A orders, MoD might choose to buy 20 of these, 36 of those, 114 of those and 57 of those. Then who is stopping to buy 36 of Su-57 and 36 of F-21/F-35/F-15.

I should also leave and take a break like Modi ji from social media for some time :evil:


I will say, stay on. No need to take a break.

My point is simple - Air Forces across the world of our size have multiple types. Homogenising the fleet that even USAF would want but can't. Within the constraints of time, monetary resources, political directions, threat, etc - the present IAF mix is IMHO balanced. Its mostly 03 major sources of fighters - Russia, France and UK. Now we have a few Indian made fighters (Kiran Mk IIs & Tejas) and that tribe will increase. We have 76 planned from France so far,(M2Ks & Rafale) both types from Dassault and the Brits have sold us Jaguars and Hawks. The Russian inventory is the biggest and will remain so for some time and will shortly have only 02 types (Mig 29s and Su 30s with Mig 21s being eased out). So we have four major hubs to source and manage aircraft spares etc since mostly all of these need Govt blessing both at home and abroad. We have vintage going back to '70s so a lot of what we currently have was planned and bought before contemporary fighters were prototyping and yet we are by and large well equipped.

I'd say, its hardly a circus given that we all know how hard it has been for us to procure aircraft.


USA is pushing really hard and the moment they offer F-35, mark my world we will order those. And they will offer with a riddle, buy one of the older generation platforms. So there will be 5 sources and each offering 2 types - more or less around 10 types. Add the unmanned types, so we will see the tribes growing too fast and too far.

If my wishes were horses, I would like MoD to consolidate to fewer types as much possible and stick with the local content even if we can add them slowly.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Arun.prabhu » 11 Mar 2020 18:23

How is that inventory list accurate? the IAF does not operate fighter bombers alone. Their mission includes ELINT, reconnaissance, strategic and tactical air lift, airborne refueling, VIP Transport, helicopter ops - utility and attack - and command, communication and control. We operate roughly 30 separate types of fixed wing air craft and 9 types of helicopters. And that's just the manned fleet. Among the vendor nations you left out include Slovenia (72 pipistrel virus), Brazil (embraer for the AEWCS), Ukraine (104 Antonov An-32s for transport), Sweden (Pilatus PC7 for training) and America (strategic and tactical air lifters, electronic warfare...), Germany (Dronier) and Israel (UAVs, missiles, etc). We need all these aircraft to train our pilots, defend our border and confront and vanquish our enemies. Saying that we are dependent on just three nations shows a very narrow focus and ignores the forest for the trees. Yes, we source from three nations and internally for the sharp end of the spear, but the stick that makes the spear a useful weapon has way too many dependencies. We cannot hope to maintain good enough relationship with all these supplier nations that they'll have our back in the event of a war. The fact that the IAF and MOD chose to source from so many vendors is a glaring indictment of the lack of foresight and the absence of strategic thinking amongst the staff and decision makers.

BTW, it has been hard to procure aircraft because our decision makers and staff made it hard. If we'd gone full bore on Tejas a decade back and ordered two hundred, we would have far more operational squadrons, those planes would have grown to be just as effective as Tejas is today as our best minds burned the midnight oil to make it better, we'd have a trained cadre of workers who'd mastered actual construction of an aircraft rather than screwdriver-giri and we'd have an excellent industrial base for AMCA. Just look at Dhruv and all the other helicopters that we're designing or building based on the expertise we gained from it using the industrial base and technological knowhow and trained personnel who built it.

deejay wrote:I will say, stay on. No need to take a break.

My point is simple - Air Forces across the world of our size have multiple types. Homogenising the fleet that even USAF would want but can't. Within the constraints of time, monetary resources, political directions, threat, etc - the present IAF mix is IMHO balanced. Its mostly 03 major sources of fighters - Russia, France and UK. Now we have a few Indian made fighters (Kiran Mk IIs & Tejas) and that tribe will increase. We have 76 planned from France so far,(M2Ks & Rafale) both types from Dassault and the Brits have sold us Jaguars and Hawks. The Russian inventory is the biggest and will remain so for some time and will shortly have only 02 types (Mig 29s and Su 30s with Mig 21s being eased out). So we have four major hubs to source and manage aircraft spares etc since mostly all of these need Govt blessing both at home and abroad. We have vintage going back to '70s so a lot of what we currently have was planned and bought before contemporary fighters were prototyping and yet we are by and large well equipped.

I'd say, its hardly a circus given that we all know how hard it has been for us to procure aircraft.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby nachiket » 12 Mar 2020 02:28

RKumar wrote:MoD/IAF don't want to order three-legged cheeta but ready to order one-legged chicken. IAF is crying wolves, that they don't have a way to deal with JF-17 and F-16 and what do they expect from Hawk?? I think imports can help everyone to go innovative and local products make them sick. :roll:

Can you at least try to do basic research before ranting here? What has a follow on order for Hawk TRAINERS got to do with orders for the Tejas? How are the two comparable in any way? I do hope you understand what a jet trainer is at least.

PS: Sorry for ranting but could not help!!

Figure out how. Mods don't have infinite patience.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Indranil » 12 Mar 2020 02:58

I am not sure if HAL's proposal is to build more Hawks, Hawk-i or not. The production line is closed and repurposed. I think they are suggesting tha IAF's Hawks be upgraded to Hawk-i standard. I don't understand the merits of this expenditure. Deejay, what's your opinion.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby agupta » 12 Mar 2020 03:33

Yup - going by Raju's statement its an obsolescence/import management driven "upgrade" that seems to reuse stuff from the DARIN upgrades. Calling it "-i" variant is more of a branding and marketing exercise; HAL would have to do most of this stuff anyway.

Useful and necessary stuff mostly (open mission computer & S/W for more flexible weapon integration and training, better radios, "customizable" HMIs etc... all point to a push to give the Hawks a LIFT-/CAS- lite role given delays on LCA volume and Sitara failure.

If HAL doesn't get too greedy and resort to value pricing games (i.e. lots of Ru for painting the 132 blue and making the brochures) seems like an easy sell. ..given that the PC-7/HTT-40 --> Hawk pipeline seems to be here to stay.

Of course bring back the -36 and the LIFT versions of LCAs into discussion and then you have a confusing mess of stuff in the hand vs. bush in future vs. sunk costs vs. ambitions etc....

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Indranil » 12 Mar 2020 04:25

By the way, the Sitara is flying every day now, sometimes more than once a day. They will start spinning it soon. The handling with the new tail seems to have overcome the previous problems. They also have another modification for the wing planned. The structural mods have already been tried. They will first spin the aircraft without the wing-modification. Then, the spin tests will be completed with the final changes as "extra" measure. What they are doing is logical. Even me with 101 knowledge of aero can follow it.

I wish they now design India's next generation AJT: A Hawk class aircraft powered by an afterburning version of HTFE-25! There is no AJT of this category in the world.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby nachiket » 12 Mar 2020 04:30

What is the need for an afterburner on an AJT? Unless you want it to be supersonic. At that point, a Tejas-SPORT makes more sense.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Arun.prabhu » 12 Mar 2020 07:16

Think of it this way: I think, current and past IAf personnel can correct me if I’m wrong, trainers won’t be counted towards the official squadron limits of the IAF. So that’s several squadrons of planes that aren’t exactly ready for dogfights, but which can fight BVR or do CAS or point defence of sites within Indian borders - sites that need air cover. As our squadron numbers increase, it allows IAF to sidestep the mandated limits and increase combat power and squadron strength beyond. It allows for trainee pilots to be better trained before they join the frontline squadrons, allows us to create a fully Large pool of trained war pilots, and the trainers are cheaper to procure and operate.

If TEJAS sports joins the trainer club, all the better, I say. That will take one of the best warplanes in our stable, allow us to pretend it is a pigeon when it is actually a Soaring eagle and reduce the time our rookie pilots have to spend training after joining frontline squadrons to become a master warrior of the skies at ease with his equipment and self confident enough to push himself and his machine to the edge of the envelope in combat.

Also, arming training planes is a sure sign of a country getting serious about fighting a war. We will need all we can muster against the northern neighbor and while it looks like a wasteful spend, the IAF Needs this just as the IN needs that third aircraft carrier, strategically speaking, of course, the argument about costs notwithstanding.

nachiket wrote:What is the need for an afterburner on an AJT? Unless you want it to be supersonic. At that point, a Tejas-SPORT makes more sense.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby deejay » 12 Mar 2020 09:10

srin wrote:
agupta wrote:

Come on Deejay-ji, spill it and educate us... clearly no one has and we're all scratching our heads !

I can speculate it as a jugaad anti-UAV, anti-chopper type AD "home guard" ... perhaps an older construct before armed helicopters with Air-to-Air missiles became part of IAF ORBAT in sufficient numbers ? Or perhaps these are coming in too slowly and too few ?

AFAIK, we only have 7.62mm MG pods for the Kirans; and so far we've not developed or heard of any APKWS/K-LOGIR type system that "could" be adapted for air-to-air use. Although much of the building blocks are now coming available, so a desi K-LOGIR with our own LCITS would be awesome for many reasons

https://armyrecognition.com/adex_2017_o ... _time.html


Interesting if we can improve the Kiran design to make it an unmanned air interceptor aircraft slaved to GC or to manned aircraft. I don't know what its endurance is, but by getting rid of cockpit and other pilot infra, its empty weight can be brought down to help it carry a couple of medium range missiles without affecting its endurance.


Yes Endurance is a problem along with remaining life.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby deejay » 12 Mar 2020 09:12

Indranil wrote:I am not sure if HAL's proposal is to build more Hawks, Hawk-i or not. The production line is closed and repurposed. I think they are suggesting tha IAF's Hawks be upgraded to Hawk-i standard. I don't understand the merits of this expenditure. Deejay, what's your opinion.


How many of the type do we really need? Is there any scope for additional crafts ? I don't see much of a future for Hawk-i in IAF.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby deejay » 12 Mar 2020 09:14

Arun.prabhu wrote:How is that inventory list accurate? the IAF does not operate fighter bombers alone. Their mission includes ELINT, reconnaissance, strategic and tactical air lift, airborne refueling, VIP Transport, helicopter ops - utility and attack - and command, communication and control. We operate roughly 30 separate types of fixed wing air craft and 9 types of helicopters. And that's just the manned fleet. Among the vendor nations you left out include Slovenia (72 pipistrel virus), Brazil (embraer for the AEWCS), Ukraine (104 Antonov An-32s for transport), Sweden (Pilatus PC7 for training) and America (strategic and tactical air lifters, electronic warfare...), Germany (Dronier) and Israel (UAVs, missiles, etc). We need all these aircraft to train our pilots, defend our border and confront and vanquish our enemies. Saying that we are dependent on just three nations shows a very narrow focus and ignores the forest for the trees. Yes, we source from three nations and internally for the sharp end of the spear, but the stick that makes the spear a useful weapon has way too many dependencies. We cannot hope to maintain good enough relationship with all these supplier nations that they'll have our back in the event of a war. The fact that the IAF and MOD chose to source from so many vendors is a glaring indictment of the lack of foresight and the absence of strategic thinking amongst the staff and decision makers.

BTW, it has been hard to procure aircraft because our decision makers and staff made it hard. If we'd gone full bore on Tejas a decade back and ordered two hundred, we would have far more operational squadrons, those planes would have grown to be just as effective as Tejas is today as our best minds burned the midnight oil to make it better, we'd have a trained cadre of workers who'd mastered actual construction of an aircraft rather than screwdriver-giri and we'd have an excellent industrial base for AMCA. Just look at Dhruv and all the other helicopters that we're designing or building based on the expertise we gained from it using the industrial base and technological knowhow and trained personnel who built it.

deejay wrote:I will say, stay on. No need to take a break.

My point is simple - Air Forces across the world of our size have multiple types. Homogenising the fleet that even USAF would want but can't. Within the constraints of time, monetary resources, political directions, threat, etc - the present IAF mix is IMHO balanced. Its mostly 03 major sources of fighters - Russia, France and UK. Now we have a few Indian made fighters (Kiran Mk IIs & Tejas) and that tribe will increase. We have 76 planned from France so far,(M2Ks & Rafale) both types from Dassault and the Brits have sold us Jaguars and Hawks. The Russian inventory is the biggest and will remain so for some time and will shortly have only 02 types (Mig 29s and Su 30s with Mig 21s being eased out). So we have four major hubs to source and manage aircraft spares etc since mostly all of these need Govt blessing both at home and abroad. We have vintage going back to '70s so a lot of what we currently have was planned and bought before contemporary fighters were prototyping and yet we are by and large well equipped.

I'd say, its hardly a circus given that we all know how hard it has been for us to procure aircraft.


Arun Ji, I was only writing on fighter aircraft.


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