Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Prasad » 23 Jul 2020 12:01

That picture was taken by neeraj gupta iirc, a journalist.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 24 Jul 2020 20:40

Look at the guy at right photo bombing :)

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/128 ... 51873?s=20 ---> Air Marshal Vivek Ram Chaudhuri (‘Chau’) appointed the next Air Officer Commanding-in-chief of the IAF’s ‘sword arm’ Western Air Command. Takes over at the end of this month.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 24 Jul 2020 20:56

For the un-initiated, Rafael is an Israeli defence company ---> https://www.rafael.co.il/

Rafale is a French aircraft built by Dassault Aviation ---> https://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/de ... roduction/

This purchase from Rafael for the IAF has NOTHING to do with the Rafale being acquired, also for the IAF :)

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 10979?s=20 ---> Rafael BNET Software defined radios for Indian Air Force to be built in Hyderabad from October.

Features:

-Spectrum Aware
-MFCR
-Full IP radio
-Merge & Heal
-Adv. Network management
-100 Mbps speed
-Jam proof

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 60609?s=20 ---> IAF has ordered 1000+ BNET SDRs of which 400 is directly supplied by Israel. IAF to replace unsecure HAL made INCOM radios with BNETs on entire fleet. CAG had warned about the severe deficiencies of this system in 2011 but it was still used on many frontline aircraft, pity it took MoD 7.5 years to wake up.

Image

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Srutayus » 24 Jul 2020 23:04

The SDR order was placed in Feb 2019. Unfortunately too late for Balakot. The Manufacturing of the Indian made component of the order started late last year.
BNET is as state of the art as it gets. Israel is the world leader in SDR technology.
http://astrafaelcomsys.com/news-events.html

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 26 Jul 2020 20:29

There is a media report with v.ambitious timelines for the AMCA,going to flyby 2024,etc.,etc. ,arriving in service by 2030 whatever.However ,afact mentioned in the report apart fromthf engine nov yet decided upon ( how then these fancy timelines?) was that the internal weapons bay was too smallfor BMos,etc.and that the aircraft may have to be "larger"!

Ever since the AMCA model was first rolled out at Aero- India,two aspects were noted and commented upon.The tiny weapons bay and the v.large tailfins. There is little point in developing a
" stealth" aircraft at high cost if its internal payload is poor.Why to me the AMCA has to really get adult,why Ru has a larger stealth bird the SU-57 which has a large weapons bay,plus twu underwing bays as well for AAMs. Some time ago in VAYU,appeared a pic of a Super- Sukhoi with a huge internal bay spanning the length of the two engine intakes .It made a lot of sense. Given our great track record of the LCA,struggling to get into the air in decent number,just for the vanilla version,the talk of AMCA so far with a new larger aircraft to design,engine to find apart from radar,etc.,etc. will remain just that,talk. It is more likely that as the SU-57 production accelerates and PLAAF stealth fighters appear both in Tibet AND in Pak,some say which will operate stealth fighters before India does, we will see yet another DM rushing off to Moscow to buy SU-57s ! Or maybe to Washington to buy F-35s depending upon the Indo- US up and down relationship.

For now,the IAF to increase numbers as the ACM has just said,we must bite the budget bullet,open purses and acquire more nos. of types in service,MIG-29/35s,MKIs and Rafales- at least another sqd.,leasing out aircraft from ready inventories in the service of the OEM nations if possible. The MMRCA 2.0 tamasha must be given an indecent burial and the upgrade for the 272+ MKI fleet must be given the green light. I think the good air chief's urgent plea was in the light of worse perfidy from the virulent vermin from the east expected before the end of the year. In that context,there is only one way to acquire extra aircraft as mentioned above.Get Russia and France to give us as many extra Rafales,MKI equivs.,whatever,on sale or lease until new ones arrive.Decades ago we got RAF Jags and the first lot of SU-30s in similar fashion which were returned later. The need for these aircraft is right now not 2 years down the road. The 3 services along with the CDS must press their case for immediate needs and the solutions to the same, in total seriousness to the GOI in the expectation of immediate action. If we dither now,the neo-Nazi XI may strike while his window of opportunity remains open.
All he needs to do is to make modest ingress across the LAC at places of his choosing and poor Bhutan is in his crosshairs too, and declare victory.But for India,even a tiny loss of territory and inability to throw the PLA sufficiently back will be an immense
loss of face not just for both the nation and PM.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 27 Jul 2020 19:10

IAF’s New ‘Sword Arm’ C-in-C Knows All About Mid-Air Danger
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2020/07 ... ncies.html
26 July 2020

In 1994, Air Marshal Chaudhari, then a Squadron Leader, was Flight Commander of the 28 Squadron ‘First Supersonics’, a MiG-29 squadron based at the time in Pune. The MiG-29 jets were only a few years old in Indian service. Taking off on a test flight one day, Squadron Leader Chaudhari’s fighter canopy blew right off during a Mach run. Faced with a critical emergency that could have compelled an ejection, the officer is understood to have lowered his seat to the maximum extent possible to minimise wind blast, and managed with some skill to land the aircraft. He was unharmed in the incident.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 27 Jul 2020 22:00

Air Defence is Everywhere
https://www.vifindia.org/article/2020/j ... everywhere
By Air Marshal Diptendu Choudhury, AVSM, VM, VSM

The author is an alumni of Royal College of Defence Studies UK, a Post Graduate in Strategy and International Security from King’s College London and Master of Philosophy on Defence and Strategic Studies. Presently, he is the Commandant of National Defence College, New Delhi.

Image

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby nam » 27 Jul 2020 22:21

Rakesh wrote:
https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 60609?s=20 ---> IAF has ordered 1000+ BNET SDRs of which 400 is directly supplied by Israel. IAF to replace unsecure HAL made INCOM radios with BNETs on entire fleet. CAG had warned about the severe deficiencies of this system in 2011 but it was still used on many frontline aircraft, pity it took MoD 7.5 years to wake up.


National Security is such a joke in our country. They says nothing is bigger than security of a nation, expect DPSU.

I hope there is no war, because I am not sure we will manage to win.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby darshan » 27 Jul 2020 23:16

For tactical use in the last twenty years, one really has to go out of the way to design unsecure datalinks. Just common sense would have one start putting down minimum layers of security. Even a simple shout out to IITs would have provided designs that would have been secure.

What's even bigger question is, where did all goalpost shifting lobbies disappear? When properly designed products aren't being picked up by armed forces then how did this made it to the field? Did someone want this unsecured radios to be on the field intentionally to cause an Achilles heel problem?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby basant » 28 Jul 2020 01:23

^^^
At some point we will have to recognize that, despite ocassional hurdles created, mostly due to laid out rules, CAG has done exemplary service to quality of inputs and discussion on military affairs. But for their meticulous assessment even on technical aspects, we would have been far worse off.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby basant » 01 Aug 2020 03:10

Don't miss this! Tarmak Talking with Air Marshal B Suresh


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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby VikramS » 01 Aug 2020 05:17

nachiket wrote:
VikramS wrote:3. War Time Equipment Transfer: Precedence There is a lot of precedence for this. From the US led Lend-Lease program in WW-II, to the transfer of Jordanian F-104s to PAF 1971, this is nothing new.

Would help to do some basic research. PAF had been flying F-104's for ten years by the time of the 1971 war. It's no different than India buying some extra Mig-29's or Su-30's during an emergency. Buying additional stocks of existing weapons is a whole lot different than buying an entirely new complex weapon system that you want to be magically operational and combat ready in a few weeks.

On the other hand, look at how little we used the Mig-21's in the 1965 war. They had entered service in 1963, 2 years prior. Contrast that with their extensive use in 1971 when the IAF was fully ready to employ them to their full potential. They made practically no difference in 1965 vs their impact in 1971. I hope everyone here asking for "X" weapon system to be quickly deployed in Ladakh understands this. It is really not that hard.


I will keep this short. Could write mutiple pages.

There are three elements of making a new weapon system operational:

1. Pilot training for basic flying and operations of the aircraft and its sub-systems.
2. Integrating platform into the Force's strategy doctrine and developing tactics to maximize impact while minimizing attrition risk
3. Developing the maintenance, repair, upgrade and support infra on the ground (parts supply chain, trained mechanics, sub-system experts).


Given that background lets compare the MiG21 to the F-35.

Mig21 was
  • IAF's first supersonic aircraft with unique flying characteristics. A pilots plane, but not very forgiving of mistakes in certain situations(as the number of crashes attributed to pilot error confirms)
  • IAF's first aircraft with A2A missiles and no guns for the A2A role
  • IAF's first supersonic interceptor with no A2G role

In contrast the F-35 is
  • An advanced FBW aircraft with a lot of sub-systems automated. It virtually flies by itself, is hard to put in a spin/stall, will take corrective action to ensure it does not fly into terrain.
  • For A2A combat uses existing BVR missiles adapted for its internal storage. IAF has been practicing BVR tactics for two decades now.
  • Modular system design which is to easier to maintain. When IAF went to Red Flag they took a transport aircraft with spares, and were able to keep almost 100% availability rate. If the IAF can keep their MKIs running in the US, a detachment of F-35s on loan to India can also be serviced by the providing force; who incidentally have a lot of experience operating in expedentary contexts.

A comparison with the learning curve of MiG21 vs the F-35 is simply not valid.

The MiG-21 was hard to master since flight characteristics were different from existing IAF aircraft. Supersonic flights, especially during transonic region requires more experience & training. In contrast for a pilot comfortable flying FBW aircraft like the M-2K or Su-30MKI, the basic flying experience is not going to be dramatically different. In fact the automation included in F-35 make basic flying skills easy to acquire, especially with a lot of time spent on simulators.

The tactics used for A2A intercept were also different. The MiG21 preferred flying at higher altitude especially when going supersonic. Very different from existing IAF aircraft.

In terms of weapon delivery tactics: The 1st batch of MiG21s only had A2A missiles. The performance of those missiles was not very reliable. It was the IAF experience after which the MiG21 was provided with guns. For the IAF it meant that they needed to do A2A combat with a weapon system they were not familiar with, whose performance was suspect and which required different tactics than their existing aircraft. In fact I am not even sure that the first set of MiG21s ever scored a war-time kill with the first set of missiles they worked with.

In contrast an F-35 with BVR missiles will operate similar to existing platforms for BVR combat, with the added advantage that its stealth means that it can get closer to the enemy aircraft undetected, and take the 1st shot with a higher kill probability. So for a mission profile where the F-35s only role is to ambush enemy aircraft which are trying to engage other IAF aircraft, the platform will make life easier for the person flying the F-35.

In terms of generational jump, the MiG21 was akin to the current IAF acquiring a hypersonic aircraft. The F-35 is simply a better version (stealth, sensors) of the current class of aircraft the IAF flies.

Note that this does not mean that the IAF will be exploiting the F-35 to its full potential. We were talking about a single mission profile here.

In that profile:
For all practical purposes to preserve stealth, the F-35 will be operating in silence, getting the battle field picture from other IAF assets. Its primarily role would be to get to a particular way-point and heading, and launch its BVR missiles in a fire & forget mode targeting a particular part of the airspace which it is instructed by the IAF battle controllers.

The chance of getting into WVR combat will be much lower in the India-Tibet area since there are very few Chinese air-bases nearby and any PLAAF aircraft will be detected before it reaches the battle area. This is different from dealing with the PAF where there are a lot of airbases at comparatively short distances and an aircraft can take-off and get close to the battle area relatively sooner. Abhi's MiG21 was masked by Pir Pranjal range and not visible to the PAF assets till it got quite close to the battle area; same will be true in reverse. Hence assuming the IAF battle controllers do a good job, the F-35 can avoid WVR combat. What this means that the pilots do not need to reach a point in their training where they have to take the F-35 to its limits. The get into position, launch and scoot profile is a relatively easier mission profile to master in an F-35 class aircraft with a lot of automation.

Times have changed, and so should our thinking. What was true in the past may not be true any more. The devil lies in the details; it is easy to make generalizations.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Haridas » 01 Aug 2020 05:53

Philip wrote:There is a media report with v.ambitious timelines for the AMCA,going to flyby 2024,etc.,etc. ,arriving in service by 2030 whatever.However ,afact mentioned in the report apart fromthf engine nov yet decided upon ( how then these fancy timelines?) was that the internal weapons bay was too smallfor BMos,etc.and that the aircraft may have to be "larger"! .


Air delivered BMos is for a very tiny mission reqmt for IAF. For a given weight and range BMos {29 ft long and 2500Kg) is a sucker that could only be tolerated for a very very specialized scenario. Glide bomb (125 Kg to 500Kg and 100-150 Km range), Air delivered Nirbhay {15 ft long, 1300 kg} will be mainstay of IAF interdiction in future.


Who says Indian AMCA ops require big Natasha boobs (BMos)?

Even Mig-29 doesn't have the balls to play fiddle w/BMos (so much for Russia with Love). Only SU30 or IL76 fit for that ( see I do give credit to russian metal)

AMCA is to be the stealth tip of the spear (air defense and interdiction), it does not need be the whole spear; you don't want to foreclose for good the option to import from Russia SU-404, don't you?

I am sure you would argue for SAM version of BrahMos too.

Let us get this straight BrahMos is at end of its life-extension rope.

Edited later : corrected ALCM Nirbhaya specs

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby krishna_krishna » 01 Aug 2020 07:52

Haridas wrote:
Edited later : corrected ALCM Nirbhaya specs


Haridasji, would love to hear your thoughts on recent import maal spending spree, I agree the situation is tight and we need to arm ourselves. But the shamefulness with which this is done to sidelined proven desi equipment who are both promising and world class in their own makes me sick.

Especially Parrikar sir had very visionary thought of making all the ammo in India, now we see Nag, LCH, kalynai Gun, Dhanush, ATAGS, SANT all of these suffers why we spend on unobtanium.

I also do not understand when there is so much need of critical high end equipment and we let go golden opportunities from our hand, case in point we need AEWACS in numbers and our IAF loves the A330 for the next gen MRTT when jet airways become bankrupt it had big fleet of those planes, still now if you look they have 3 airframes available in addition to ATR and embraerer jets. We can get hold of these frames from banks at cheaper rates and give it to IAF with DRDO installed radar suite you get win win. Also what I do not understand when there is / was a big consignment of APC stuck at KAndla bound for Iraq forces who could not pay for these, now they are stuck for someone to grab these, why can't we get these brand new APC's that army desperately wants and can used on LAC if we cannot use such opportunities that are within our borders, forget about anything else.

There could be many projects that could be launched that will give more bang for the buck and within India, like Maritime patrol aircraft, electronic warfare and surveillance aircraft these both can be launched as in-house project with using /upgrading Avro fleet. The numbers left on the age of these aircraft are too big why don't we upgrade and use it , this way we get upgraded weapons and sensors packages in-house for current and future use.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Prithwiraj » 01 Aug 2020 16:04

Rakesh wrote:Look at the guy at right photo bombing :)

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/128 ... 51873?s=20 ---> Air Marshal Vivek Ram Chaudhuri (‘Chau’) appointed the next Air Officer Commanding-in-chief of the IAF’s ‘sword arm’ Western Air Command. Takes over at the end of this month.

Is that mock up Air Launch BrahMos hooked on to Tejas in the background?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 01 Aug 2020 18:21

Indeed.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 01 Aug 2020 18:24

https://twitter.com/rajatpTOI/status/12 ... 64800?s=20 ---> Air Marshal V R Chaudhari, who was commissioned in December 1982 & has flying experience of over 3,800 hours on MiG-21, MiG-23, MiG 29 & Sukhoi-30MKI fighters, takes over as the new chief of Western Air Command.

Image'

Image

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby VikramS » 02 Aug 2020 02:18

A minor correction to the above post the MiG21 induction and the 1965 war.

The 1st batch of MiG21s did have guns which were subsequently removed in the next batch which were actually used in the 1965 war.

Lack of pilot training was the primary reason why the MiG21 was employed on a defensive mode. The pilots had to wear a Yuri Gagarin type space-suit, fly at much higher altitudes, and of course learn to handle the aircraft in subsonic, transonic and supersonic ranges.

Ref:
https://theprint.in/defence/for-just-a- ... 65/391168/

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby VKumar » 02 Aug 2020 16:15

One AWACS and one Refueller per squadron of fighters.

Dedicated DEAD/SEAD fighters in every squadron.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby nam » 02 Aug 2020 19:08

VKumar wrote:One AWACS and one Refueller per squadron of fighters.

Dedicated DEAD/SEAD fighters in every squadron.


For that to happen the income tax would have to start at 30% and upwards. With GST at 30%.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby fanne » 02 Aug 2020 20:59

One OSNIT SAT and One 1 cm resolution visual/RF SAT per squadron. 3000 LCA, 2500 AMCA, 30,000 LCH also now we are at that. Let me come with the rest of the requirement at a later time.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby John » 03 Aug 2020 06:16

Prithwiraj wrote:
Rakesh wrote:Look at the guy at right photo bombing :)

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/128 ... 51873?s=20 ---> Air Marshal Vivek Ram Chaudhuri (‘Chau’) appointed the next Air Officer Commanding-in-chief of the IAF’s ‘sword arm’ Western Air Command. Takes over at the end of this month.

Is that mock up Air Launch BrahMos hooked on to Tejas in the background?



Rakesh wrote:Indeed.

I believe that is Brahmos NG

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 03 Aug 2020 21:42

VikramS wrote:A minor correction to the above post the MiG21 induction and the 1965 war.

The 1st batch of MiG21s did have guns which were subsequently removed in the next batch which were actually used in the 1965 war.

Lack of pilot training was the primary reason why the MiG21 was employed on a defensive mode. The pilots had to wear a Yuri Gagarin type space-suit, fly at much higher altitudes, and of course learn to handle the aircraft in subsonic, transonic and supersonic ranges.

Ref:
https://theprint.in/defence/for-just-a- ... 65/391168/



Thanks for this always bothered me. That MSD Wollen was livid about the Atoll AAM missing the target and getting diverted to earth.

So why were the Type 74 not deployed once the gun issue was understood?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 04 Aug 2020 19:33

Kashmiri 'Rafale Man' was part of surgical strike against Pak
https://www.prokerala.com/news/articles/a1067456.html
29 July 2020

By Aarti Tikoo Singh

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 04 Aug 2020 19:36

Rakesh wrote:Kashmiri 'Rafale Man' was part of surgical strike against Pak
https://www.prokerala.com/news/articles/a1067456.html
29 July 2020

By Aarti Tikoo Singh

Only problem is why is this being published, could be a target along with his family for Paki agents attack in future.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Vips » 05 Aug 2020 03:21

Author of the news report has been infected by Durka Butt-itis (Leaking confidential information that aids the enemy).

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby VikramS » 06 Aug 2020 10:51

ramana wrote:

Thanks for this always bothered me. That MSD Wollen was livid about the Atoll AAM missing the target and getting diverted to earth.

So why were the Type 74 not deployed once the gun issue was understood?


IIRC they were flying all the aircraft they had. The T-76 had a radar which could make the crucial difference since Ground Radar Coverage was limited.

IAF did lose two to PAF attacks on Pathankot.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby VikramS » 08 Aug 2020 15:17

https://www.facebook.com/nilesh.sathe.9 ... 5300347207

Its hard to believe that Dipak Sathe, my friend more than my cousin, is no more. He was pilot of Air India Express carrying passengers from Dubai in 'Vande Bharat Mission', which skidded off the runway at Kozhikode International Airport yesterday night.
What is learnt is as follows:
Landing gears didn't work.
Ex IAF pilot made three rounds of airport to empty the fuel which saved plane from catching fire. That’s why there was no smoke seen coming from the crashed aircraft.
He turned off the engine right before the crash.
He belly landed after the 3rd iteration.
The right wing was ruptured.
The Pilot martyred but saved life of 180 co-passengers.
Dipak was an experienced aerial operator with 36 years of flying experience. A passout of NDA, topper in the 58th course and an awardee of 'Sword of Honour', Dipak served Indian Air Force for 21 years before joining as a Commercial Pilot with Air India in 2005.
He called me just a week before and was jovial, as always. When I asked him about the 'Vande Bharat' Mission, he was proud of bringing back our countrymen from Arab countries. I asked him,"Dipak, do you carry empty Aircraft since those countries are not allowing entry of passengers?" He had replied," Oh, No. We carry fruits, vegetables,medicines etc to these countries and never the aircraft flies to these countries empty." That was my last conversation with him.
He survived in air crash in early nineties when he was in Airforce. He was hospitalised for 6 months for multiple skull injuries and nobody thought that he will fly again. But his strong will power and love for flying made him clear the test again. It was a miracle.
He leaves behind his wife and two sons, both pass outs of IIT Mumbai. He is a son of Colonel Vasant Sathe who stays in Nagpur along with his wife. His brother, Capt Vikas, was also an Armyman who laid his life while serving in Jammu region.
A soldier lays his life to save the lives of his countrymen.
It reminds me of a poem by a soldier :
If I die in a war zone,
Box me up & send me home
Put my medals on my chest,
Tell my Mom I did the best
Tell my Dad not to bow,
He won't get tension from me now,
Tell my brother to study perfectly,
Keys of my bike will be his permanently
Tell my Sis not to be upset,
Her Bro will not rise after this sunset
And tell my love not to cry,
"Because I am a soldier Born to Die...."
... Nilesh Sathe

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby MeshaVishwas » 08 Aug 2020 18:30

^^Om Shanti to the departed, proud of the AI crew.


Enforcement Directorate conducts raids across country in Pilatus aircraft deal-ET

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 407925.cms

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 10 Aug 2020 21:06

https://twitter.com/strategic_front/sta ... 81824?s=20 ---> Indian PM's new ride. Boeing 777-300ER equipped with encrypted communications systems, missile countermeasures & EW suite. Tail sign "VT-ALV", sitting on the tarmac of the San Bernardino International Airport in California, USA. Credit: Michael Ing on Filckr.

Image

https://twitter.com/FrontalAssault1/sta ... 66817?s=20 ---> The brand new Air Force One for Indian PM Narendra Modi.

Image

Image

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 10 Aug 2020 21:08

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