Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

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KSingh
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby KSingh » 20 Nov 2020 02:54

basant wrote:Not worth commenting for more than one reason.
IAF for short-term leasing of trainer aircraft, light copters
The Indian Air Force (IAF) is looking at leasing training aircraft and Light Utility Helicopters (LUH) for short duration till the indigenous platforms under development are inducted into service, said IAF Deputy Chief Air Marshal Sandeep Singh on Wednesday. The recently released Defence Acquisition Procedure (DAP) 2020 allows leasing of military platforms.

“The IAF is in the process of sending out Request for Information (RFI) for leasing trainer aircraft for relatively short period,” Air Marshal Singh said at a webinar organised by the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry.

Does anyone have a sensible explanation for this??

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 126336.ece

If they are talking about leasing the HTT-40 and LUH from HAL for a short period to overcome a lack of CAPEX then this is a very sensible approach BUT it seems like they are talking about leasing entirely new and foreign products in the BTA/RSH category to ‘ fill gaps’, in that case I genuinely feel sick at this development


Including leasing in DAP 2020 is a complete boondoggle and will only lead to the inevitable outcome of fleecing the Indian taxpayer and transferring their wealth to foreign wallets

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby basant » 20 Nov 2020 03:35

The fun part is it takes time to train the trainers! That will take a lot more time apart other issues. Or you get Pilatus, obviously! For LUH, it could be Alouette III. Current operators include France and Pakistan! With so many troops at LAC it is natural to have requirement for LUH. For IJT, it may be a better idea to send to some country for training. That might be more economical. The bigger question is, once these pilots graduate, what would they do next! Lease more AJTs?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karan M » 20 Nov 2020 08:15

This is a good development. By leasing the foreign kit they don't buy it outright, saving capex for the desi kit. Otherwise over the longer term you'd have imported the foreign kit anyhow and then the funds for outright purchase of the desi kit would be awaited. Instead for peacetime use they can lease the imported kit from commercial OEMs with spares and support - so the IAF doesn't have to invest in it by themselves and it will save capex and infra investments for the actual desi kit. The bad blood that inevitably arises because forces use obsolete kit while the desi kit goes through protracted trials is hence avoided. Also offers the IAF/IA the ability to boost investments in combat kit vs combat support kit (logistics helicopters) by spreading the payments. PAF spends primarily on combat relevant kit. Our budget gets spread out amongst direct combat assets and essential logistics support elements. This may offer us a way to split out the payments till we can stabilize the budget.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby basant » 20 Nov 2020 22:05

HAL @HALHQBLR
The modified HJT-36 commences spin flight test today.

4:30 PM · Nov 20, 2020

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby mmasand » 21 Nov 2020 00:45

brar_w wrote:The F-35 deal is hardly guaranteed. And even if it happens, the UAE is more likely to begin offloading its F-16 E/F in case it needs to shed capacity for whatever reasons though it is more likely that they'll retain all three types.


DCSA/State Dept have notified Congress on Nov 10th of the intended sale. Unless both houses reject the proposal within 30 days, the sale will go ahead. Ilhar Oman (surprise surprise), and another senator (D) have prepared a resolution to block the sale. Unless Netanyahu now changes his stand on greenlighting the deal, Biden's admin is in a fix, and will have to use a myriad of reasons to block the sale.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby brar_w » 21 Nov 2020 03:21

mmasand wrote:
brar_w wrote:The F-35 deal is hardly guaranteed. And even if it happens, the UAE is more likely to begin offloading its F-16 E/F in case it needs to shed capacity for whatever reasons though it is more likely that they'll retain all three types.


DCSA/State Dept have notified Congress on Nov 10th of the intended sale. Unless both houses reject the proposal within 30 days, the sale will go ahead. Ilhar Oman (surprise surprise), and another senator (D) have prepared a resolution to block the sale. Unless Netanyahu now changes his stand on greenlighting the deal, Biden's admin is in a fix, and will have to use a myriad of reasons to block the sale.


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7088&start=1880#p2471168

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 21 Nov 2020 23:54

https://twitter.com/Chopsyturvey/status ... 72897?s=20 ---> The Air Chief visited a few Western Air Command airbases to check preparedness.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 22 Nov 2020 10:57

The Ind. Exp. in today's edition has a feature on the Azeris use of drone warfare in the war with Armenia,the key winning factor. One titbit in it is that they used old Russian AN-2 biplanes into bomb- dropping drones.In the '71 war,we did use IAF AN-12s as " bombers" too,so the idea of using other mil. aircraft as bombers,missile carrier,etc., isn't new.

What the IAF have in plentiful are hundreds of legacy retd. MIGs of diff. types. These hundreds of " assets" could be converted into drones or even as propsed aeons ago as kamikaze weapons just like Harop. Every aircraft that can still fly even if retd. is a v.useful asset in today's context. The war over NK has only underscored the usefulness of legacy aircraft put to a new (expendable )use.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 22 Nov 2020 15:07

If Armenia 'a Air defenses could not take out AN-2's thier aircdefenses were not functional, Armenia probably did not have enough fuel to power these radars. The key is also logistics.

Air defenses need multi layered radars with air defenses to start acting on threats at the right time.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 23 Nov 2020 13:30

Once question that bothers me, why we don't set up powerful radars from the Himachal hills towards Sargodha and Murid, it should have been done in the 1950's itself, it give good warning time to Pathankot and Western Airbases if any aircraft is approaching from the West.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 23 Nov 2020 23:18

https://twitter.com/I30mki/status/13304 ... 62272?s=20 ----> As Tejas gets ready, the Indian Air Force inducts the last overhauled MiG-21 Bison. The IAF on Wednesday, Nov 18th received its last overhauled MiG-21 Bison from state-owned enterprise, HAL. The aircraft was handed over in a virtual event adhering to pandemic guidelines.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 23 Nov 2020 23:34

At IAM, Bhadauria reiterates IAF’s commitment to put doctors back into cockpit
https://www.onmanorama.com/news/nation/ ... ckpit.html
23 Nov 2020

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 25 Nov 2020 16:21

Last overhauled Bison.How long will they continue to serve?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 25 Nov 2020 23:14

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 27776?s=20 ---> IAF wants following deals to be signed by end of FY21 (Mar 21):

1) 12 more Su-30 MKI by HAL

2) 21 MiG-29UPG from Russia

3) 83 Tejas Mk1A by HAL

Plus Navy wants KA-31 AEW chopper deal.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby jaysimha » 25 Nov 2020 23:22

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/status/1331620244356427776?s=20 ---> IAF wants following deals to be signed by end of FY21 (Mar 21):

1) 12 more Su-30 MKI by HAL

2) 21 MiG-29UPG from Russia

3) 83 Tejas Mk1A by HAL

Plus Navy wants KA-31 AEW chopper deal.

can we assume all the above deals will be done and "announced" during aero India 21 ?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby VinodTK » 26 Nov 2020 00:22

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/status/1331620244356427776?s=20 ---> IAF wants following deals to be signed by end of FY21 (Mar 21):

1) 12 more Su-30 MKI by HAL

2) 21 MiG-29UPG from Russia

3) 83 Tejas Mk1A by HAL

Plus Navy wants KA-31 AEW chopper deal.


Lack of transparency and accountability leads to such deadlines
plus the ever green song "we are short of funds" allways playing in the background. :( (money is available for all other social and infra projects but not for defense) :(

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby maitya » 26 Nov 2020 18:47

Buried in todays ToI news item: India leases top-notch US drones for surveillance amidst border row with China is this:
The IAF is also finalizing a plan to “dry lease” or acquire six “pre-owned” mid-air refueling aircraft to extend the reach of its fighter jets. Though IAF overall needs 18 such “force-multipliers”, it is currently making do with just six IL-78 aircraft inducted in 2003-2004.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby sajaym » 27 Nov 2020 11:06

Hello All, there's a strange sounding jet flying above the skies in Bommasandra, Bangalore. Any idea which jet this is? Very strange sound of the engines, never heard before -- not a fighter, some kind of transport. Skies are overcast, hence not able to see the plane.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby MeshaVishwas » 30 Nov 2020 00:18

A flashback story worth reading:
Our Minds- Air Cmde T K Sen
It was a cloudy morning in Delhi. The year was 1967. The retiring Vice President was on his farewell tour. On that day he was in Muzaffarpur in Bihar. The VP had been provided with an IL-14 for the trip by the Communication Squadron. The hot news in the corridors of Western Air Command (WAC) that morning was that the Ground Starter trolley at Muzaffarpur had become unserviceable. No possibility of a local ‘standby’ existed. Th VP had to continue with his planned visit. Therefore a replacement had to be sent from Delhi.

The Comn Squadron had no aircraft that could lift a trolley without time consuming modification of its passenger cabin. The problem thus landed in the lap of the Air II of WAC. A rapid scanning of resources indicated that one IL-14 ( of 43 Squadron ?) was physically available at Palam. The aircraft was immediately appropriated for the task. The crew consisted of two young pilots and two or three SNCOs. They were called to the Command HQ for a meeting. That is where I met these boys for the first time.

I was then the OPS -I of WAC. The offices or Air-I and Air II were adjacent. I over heard the mention of Muzaffarpur and my ears pricked up. I had my uncle in that town and I had not seen the old man for quite a while. My table that morning was free of files and I had nothing particular to do. The aircraft was going to Muzaffarpur now and would be coming back by the evening. If I could only go…

I knocked on the Air-I s door. He was not amused but did not prevent me from my proposed galavant. I went to the Air-II. He had no objection to my travelling as a supernumerary pilot. My name got included as a part of the crew. As I was about to run down to the ground-floor I crossed the path of Air-I again. He assumed that I was about to run away for half a day and said that I should clear my half-day absence from work from the SASO (Senior Air Staff Officer, my super boss). The SASO’s nod for the trip was also obtained. We then rushed to the Technical Area of Palam where the aircraft was parked.

Loading the Starter Trolley took some time. We departed with a task that could be summarised As : Load at Palam- Destination Muzaffarpur – Unload – Patna for refuelling – back to

Palam. A straightforward task.

At Muzaffarpur I talked the airport officer into providing me with a transport. Very quickly I went home. Chacha Chachi were pleasantly surprised. Charan-Sparsh and a plate of food, and I was back at the airport.

The load was not yet down. Fortunately the VP was also late. All went well. After the departure of the VP we were ready to go. We were about 2 hours behind our planned departure time. After taxiing out the captain told me that instead of refuelling at Patna, we would be picking up fuel at Bakshi Ka Talab. I was a bit surprised. I did not know whether the captain had the authority to change a flight plan issued by the Air-II. Being just a glorified passenger on this flight I did not comment or interfere. We set course for Bakshi Ka Talab.

The weather enroute was bad and was getting worse. Contact on VHF radio was unsatisfactory. As we came close to Lucknow we seemed to be heading into a solid wall of cloud. Bakshi refused to accept us.The airfield was under an active thunder-storm. The Captain turned the aircraft towards Kanpur and called Chakery. Chakery VHF did not respond for a long time. When contact was ultimately established we were told that Chakery was closed for runway repair. We turned back towards Lucknow and called the civilian airfield Amausi. This airfield was willing to accept us. They informed us that the airfield was experiencing light rain. They were then requested for urgent refuelling. We were still on our way back from Kanpur when Amausi called up to say that there was no AVGAS with them, which is the fuel we needed. They only stocked AVTUR, the fuel type needed by civil aviation. They advised us not to come as they would have difficulty parking us overnight.

We were now in trouble. Fuel was running low. Our aircraft was in a holding pattern, in and out of a cloud mass. Finding the aircraft in a holding pattern I went into the cockpit and asked the co-pilot what the situation was. The co-pilot told me the highlights of the situation. I then turned to the captain and asked him about his plan. He did not respond, so I repeated my question. He turned to look at me – I saw panic in his eyes. He obviously had no plan. He broke eye contact and looked forward again. I felt pretty sure that he was being gripped by panic. Something had to be done. I gently tapped him on the head with my knuckles. He was startled and he looked at me again. I told him gently – Kanpur is closed – Bakshi has a thunderstorm – you are short of fuel and you have to land. Amausi is available, land there. He was still not out of his confusion. He said – “But sir they have no space to park, they won’t let me land.” I put my hand on his shoulder and spoke as calmly as I could – “Declare a fuel emergency – they will have to let you in.” The look on his face changed back to normal. He at last had something to do and he knew that he could do it. He declared a fuel emergency and landed at Amausi.

In fifteen minutes or so the thunderstorm moved away from Bakshi Ka Talab. I spoke to the base commander and persuaded him to accept our flight to land for refuelling. That should have been the end of the story, but the Flight Safety Man inside me would not let me stop. While his aircraft was being refuelled I cornered the Captain for a chat. Why did he change the flight plan? Initially he said that weather was uncertain therefore he wanted to return early. That reason was a little difficult for me to accept at face value as he could have requested for a change of plan before starting the task. After some further persuasion he admitted that there was a function at home and he wanted to reach home in time for it. Having got that inconvenient fact off his chest he became his normal self. He thanked me for helping him and we parted company.

I did not report the incident then, but I have always felt that the lessons of the incident should be percolated in the world of aviation and outside. Today, more than 50 years after the incident, let me sieve it for the lessons.

The seed of this incident was laid when the crew was hijacked on their way home. Was the captain asked by the authorising and tasking authority about his availability? I am not suggesting that the tasking authority needs to take the pilot’s approval before he is tasked. I am assuming that the Flight Commander and/or the CO of the unit would have known about his social engagements. I am assuming the the Air-II staff would have consulted with the CO/FltCdr about the task before hijacking the aircraft and crew. I am assuming that if/when asked, the unit would have told the Air-II staff about the social event who in turn would have commiserated with the pilot about his missing out on his party, and I am assuming the pilot would not have fretted and consumed a dose of gethomitis if he knew that the Service cares. Am I assuming too much ? Perhaps yes. But I know of units / Officers Commanding / Flight Commanders where such expectations would be fulfilled.

The seed of the incident was nurtured by an eroded self discipline of the pilot.

Did the pilot think of modifying the flight-plan before starting from Delhi ? If ‘yes’, then
He should have had the flight plan officially modified
Should have collected briefing for route weather and terminal facilities. He would have immediately realised that Delhi-Muzaffarpur-Bakshi Ka Talab would leave him with very little fuel and no diversions. Non-availability of Kanpur would have forced him to stick to the authorised flight plan and stop fretting mentally about his party.
If the idea of modifying the flight plan occurred to him only after the delay at Muzaffarpur then
He would be faulted for flight planning without sufficient route and terminal data in the face of known marginal weather condition with no possible diversions and with known marginal fuel condition. That would indeed be a case of bad airmanship.
Perhaps the situation was compounded by a feeling of guilt or regret playing on his mind that caused him to let panic overtake him when he had to face multiple adverse situations. In my opinion, if he did not have to carry some sort of fear or guilt in his mind he would not have panicked.

This was a complex case which fortunately avoided possible disaster. I debated with myself and decided not to mention the incident either to the Air-II or to the pilot’s CO. I felt that my detailed debrief given to the pilot would have to suffice in this case. Then why have I decided to put it in public domain after 53 years ? You can say it is just cleaning of my memory backlog. But in my own mind the motivation is different. While we investigate accidents that take place from aeronautical mechanical environmental and training aspects, we seldom investigate what was in the pilot’s mind. Such an investigation is difficult. None of us are trained for such an investigation. Such enquiries are also socially problematic. Then what would be the solution? My advise would be simple. Do not wait for an accident to happen. Within the unit, in day to day acts of leadership and camaraderie, try to be in tune with your unit men. Avoiding psychological pitfalls and strengthening mental resolve will follow.

https://tkstales.wordpress.com/2020/07/15/our-minds/
Never even knew that we operated Il-14s, so cool to read a story about the bird.
And equally awesome is that BR has some nices images of the Il-14.
Edit:No A2A shots sadly :(

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby John » 30 Nov 2020 04:26

Aditya_V wrote:If Armenia 'a Air defenses could not take out AN-2's thier aircdefenses were not functional, Armenia probably did not have enough fuel to power these radars. The key is also logistics.

Air defenses need multi layered radars with air defenses to start acting on threats at the right time.

They actually had decent air defense system there radar network wasn’t robust to take on large air offensives but definitely enough to deal with regional threats. However the Russian TOR and S-300 badly under performed with former failing to properly deal with drones and protect the S-300. While S-300 by itself couldn’t stop Turkish jets from operating in the area. Goes to show the importance of not buying into hype (see S-400) and properly evaluating the system before throwing $$ at it.

In other hand Azerbaijans Barak-8 seems to have played some role in deterring Armenia from conducting any sorties.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby viveks » 30 Nov 2020 08:31

Wonder if India ever evaluated the Arrow-2 from Israel?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby brar_w » 30 Nov 2020 08:52

viveks wrote:Wonder if India ever evaluated the Arrow-2 from Israel?


It's purely a BMD system tailored towards the Iranian threat (for Israel). Quite different from what the IAF is likely to need from a BMD system given the Chinese ballistic missile threat.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Prem » 30 Nov 2020 13:39

Did we just shoot down a Paki F16 or it crashed near LOC?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby amitverma » 30 Nov 2020 14:22

A PAF F-16 crashed in Tattapani Sector of Kotli, Air activities on both sides of LOC

*posted in Terroristan thread as well



Dr. APR Flag of IndiaMaple leaf
@drapr007
#Unconfirmed : 1 PAF fighter jet shot down by IAF near LoC. Its debris has fallen in the Tattapani sector of PoK.



Anurag Dixit
@bhootnath
#Update

35 Punjab Regiment QRT rushed to the spot , to prevent civilians clicking photograph.

Apparently , LOMAD troops of Pakistani army were sleeping when IAF fighters knocked of their plane.

SCO has jammed all data network.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 30 Nov 2020 15:22

Nothing on News channels of any sort clash or PAF fighter crash.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 01 Dec 2020 00:38

https://twitter.com/KUNALBI25146617/sta ... 09122?s=20 ---> Here's a snap of S-125 Pechora, the IAF operates 30 x S-125 systems imported in the 1970s. In 2016, the IAF launched an upgrade worth US $272 million to digitize & integrate it with the Integrated Area Command & Control System. The missile has a range of 20 km, with a ceiling of 32 km.

Image

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 01 Dec 2020 15:13

Is there a Typo, range 20Km, ceiling 32 km, should be the other way round?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby John » 03 Dec 2020 03:43

Aditya_V wrote:Is there a Typo, range 20Km, ceiling 32 km, should be the other way round?

Yea they flipped those numbers.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 03 Dec 2020 07:06

Still serving 50 years on?! What's the special nature of the SAM that it can soldier on for so long?


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