Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby nits » 22 Jan 2021 17:49

haha true that (please drop the ji )

IAF PR Team can think of creating Comics around this theme - Kids will love it and will know more about our mighty force and will generate interest in this area

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Kartik » 22 Jan 2021 18:50

Another shot of IAF and French Rafales with French Airbus A330 MRTT

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby yensoy » 22 Jan 2021 19:44

^^^^ Wait, our latest, greatest, TFTA Rafale which cost us an arm and a leg doesn't have a retractable refueling probe and we want one on the Tejas? Is there really a visibility or drag issue, or something just for the heck of it?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 22 Jan 2021 19:49

I am not aware of IAF asking for a retractable refueling probe on Tejas. It is however bolt on, bolt off, can be removed for missions by the ground crew and FBW has been adapted for it.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby yensoy » 22 Jan 2021 21:38

Aditya_V wrote:I am not aware of IAF asking for a retractable refueling probe on Tejas. It is however bolt on, bolt off, can be removed for missions by the ground crew and FBW has been adapted for it.

As per
https://idrw.org/5-new-mwf-tejas-mk2-features-revealed/
this is a requirement of Mk2. Not Mk1/1a though, maybe that caused some confusion? Honestly I was not sure either but I remembered seeing the retractable probe requirement and had to look it up.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby LakshmanPST » 25 Jan 2021 14:26

Question:- When is the planned retirement of MIG21 Bisons and older Jaguars...???
All these days I thought it is in the period between 2025-28...
However, during some recent discussion and subsequent googling, almost every search result is throwing up date of 2022...
Now I'm confused... Coz. the squadron strength will go down to 26 in the period from 2023-25, if they are retired next year...
Though I'm optimistic about their operational life being extended for 3 more years atleast, this is somewhat concerning...

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 25 Jan 2021 14:37

The last Bison was overhauled only last month- they should be retiring from 2025 onwards. Jags also I think it will be from 2025 onwards.

Many media people are involved marketing in MMRCA aircraft, they would be pushing for early retirement to jsutify this contract.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 25 Jan 2021 14:58

Same thing with 29 and M2K upgrades ,where reports say they can fly for 40 years more!

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby srai » 25 Jan 2021 20:06

Question:- When is the planned retirement of MIG21 Bisons and older Jaguars...???


Bison phase out will coincide with Tejas Mk1A induction between 2025 and 2029. Similar roles.

Jaguars replacements are to be MWF or MRCA-2/Rafale towards the late 2020 / early 2030. Even AMCA will join the fray by 2035. Jaguars, MiG-29 and Mirage-2000s will all be replaced between 2030-2040.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby nachiket » 25 Jan 2021 22:22

Aditya_V wrote:I was talking about radar updates for the Su-30, for Mig-29's it will most probably be a Russian solution.

The Mig-29 upgrade already included a new radar (Zhuk-ME, similar to that on the Navy's 29K). These new upgrades being talked about will consist of the DARE D-29 EW suite which was still in development when the earlier upgrades were carried out. Now it is ready. Not sure where the reports of a new radar are coming from but are erroneous IMO.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby AkshaySG » 26 Jan 2021 01:00

LakshmanPST wrote:Question:- When is the planned retirement of MIG21 Bisons and older Jaguars...???
All these days I thought it is in the period between 2025-28...
However, during some recent discussion and subsequent googling, almost every search result is throwing up date of 2022...
Now I'm confused... Coz. the squadron strength will go down to 26 in the period from 2023-25, if they are retired next year...
Though I'm optimistic about their operational life being extended for 3 more years atleast, this is somewhat concerning...


Phased retirement from 25 onwards .. As Tejas squadrons start getting inducted Bisons will be on the way out starting from the oldest ...Should take 3-4 years to phase out all ~120 of them

Similarly Mig 29/Jaguars/Mirages will start getting phased out when MWF/TejasMk2 starts getting inducted at a serious rate

Although if the airframes have life left and IAF is fine with them they could be used longer too so for ex the latest 21 Mig29's which won't get here till 2024 could very well serve till 2035 and beyond

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby LakshmanPST » 26 Jan 2021 06:02

6 MIG21 and 3 Jaguar squadrons are due for retirement latest by 2025-28... Tejas Mk2 squadrons won't be ready by then...
The replacements for these 9 squadrons are 6 Tejas Mk1/1A, 2 Rafale and 1 MIG29 squadron...
Both Rafale squadrons will reach full strength only by end of 2022... And Tejas squadrons will also reach full strength by mid 2023 only...
Also, Mk1s need to deployed in a forward base... Sulur base is only an extended stop-over...
Once this is dobe, MIG21 Bison retirement can start from mid 2023 or early 2024, at the rate of 1 squadron per year...
Same with the 3 Jaguar squadrons...

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby nam » 26 Jan 2021 20:15

Something interesting how F16 can supercruise at 30K feet... i.e. break Mach 1 with no afterburner.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby brar_w » 26 Jan 2021 20:23

Payload is going to be important to note as with any performance of 4th generation aircraft that carry all of their weapons, additional fuel, and some of their sensors externally. If you don't factor that then any claim or even demonstrated performance is pointless. Also ideally, if you want to achieve prolonged supersonic flight, you'd want to be outside Mach 1.2 ish from a drag perspective.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 30 Jan 2021 01:59

That is an upgraded Mirage 2000I and not a Mirage 2000H. The colour of the radome is a dead giveaway.

https://twitter.com/SupratikSaumya/stat ... 56161?s=20 ---> This Mirage 2000H is equipped with a Popeye seeker-head on the front starboard station.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 30 Jan 2021 02:02

https://twitter.com/strategic_front/sta ... 35202?s=20 ---> ADA recently put out a tender to upgrade the software package of the DASH 4 HMDS. DRDO had previously developed a helmet & oxygen mask for fighter pilots. HMDS are next in line for indigenization. The unavailability of proprietary software is probably the only missing link.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 04 Feb 2021 02:42

https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... 02240?s=20 ---> And here it is.....AESA for the Jaguar DARIN-III being manufactured by HAL under license from IAI Elta of Israel.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 04 Feb 2021 02:43

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/135 ... 38017?s=20 ---> First public outing of an IAF Jaguar with the MBDA ASRAAM on over-wing pylon at #AeroIndia2021!

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 04 Feb 2021 07:37

Close up shot of that ASRAAM on the upgraded Jaguar, courtesy of Vayu Aerospace...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EtRtsT-XcAE ... ame=medium --->

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 04 Feb 2021 08:16

Indian Air Force Crucial Enabler of Peace, Stability and Security in IOR: Air Chief
https://bharatshakti.in/indian-air-forc ... air-chief/
03 Feb 2021

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 04 Feb 2021 13:06

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1356916517028438017?s=20 ---> First public outing of an IAF Jaguar with the MBDA ASRAAM on over-wing pylon at #AeroIndia2021!



This probably means Jaguars cannot be intercepted by Block-1, Block 2 JF 17 and Mirage fleet of PAF, if they get some BVR's then even F16 fleet will be wary and IAF can overwhelm with Nos and quality.

What Feb 2019 revealed is taking down PAF is key turning down the Jihadi tap from Pakistan.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Manish_P » 04 Feb 2021 13:18

Nice

That small powerful Cat really has sharp claws to punch well above its weight.

Very low level flying combined with AESA radar and potent AAMs, helpful for within squad escort duties, will make it more than a handful for the PAF.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ramana » 04 Feb 2021 23:20

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1356916517028438017?s=20 ---> First public outing of an IAF Jaguar with the MBDA ASRAAM on over-wing pylon at #AeroIndia2021!

I don't understand the mindset in using "outing" for "display".

It's not like IAF hiding the intent to arm Jaguars with ASRAAM.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 04 Feb 2021 23:44

Airbus emerges frontrunner as IAF looks at 10-year lease for mid-air refuellers
https://theprint.in/defence/airbus-emer ... rs/597893/
03 Feb 2021

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 06 Feb 2021 08:56

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Last edited by Philip on 06 Feb 2021 08:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 06 Feb 2021 08:58

A titbit from IDRW.IAF MIG-29 UPGs are equiv to block 52 F-16s according to the report.All but 2 of the 60+ aircraft have been upgraded.In the aftermath of the Balakot strikes,2 29UPGs in addition to the MKIs and Bisons, were sent to intercept Paki F-16s.However,they had scooted by the time the MIGs reached the battlespace. The IAF is also increasing the experience of 29UPGs to F-16s by sending 5 of them to Oman to take part in exercises. With the extra 21on order from Russia, the 29s will be the largest no. of frontline fighters after the MKIs. Another report has it that Astra-1 is equiv. to Paki AIM-120 AMRAAMs.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 06 Feb 2021 09:56

Philip wrote:A titbit from IDRW.IAF MIG-29 UPGs are equiv to block 52 F-16s according to the report.All but 2 of the 60+ aircraft have been upgraded.In the aftermath of the Balakot strikes,2 29UPGs in addition to the MKIs and Bisons, were sent to intercept Paki F-16s.However,they had scooted by the time the MIGs reached the battlespace. The IAF is also increasing the experience of 29UPGs to F-16s by sending 5 of them to Oman to take part in exercises. With the extra 21on order from Russia, the 29s will be the largest no. of frontline fighters after the MKIs. Another report has it that Astra-1 is equiv. to Paki AIM-120 AMRAAMs.


That's why it should have been called operation Swift Retreat, after a few minutes PAF retreated and PA, thinking PAF strikes were successful started mixing thier T80 Tanks with civilian traffic , they were so afraid of the IAF.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 06 Feb 2021 22:42

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 04288?s=20 ---> IAF Chief meets Brigadier General Thierry Carlier, Director for International Relations of French Defence Procurement Agency (DGA). Brigadier General Carlier delivers arms export licences on behalf of the French Prime Minister.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Zynda » 07 Feb 2021 01:29

Really didn't know where to post this but a thousand pranaams to late Sri Manohar Parrikar...probably one of the RM who have had an immense & lasting impact on India's defence matters. His belief in Indian products and his persistence & persuasion has led to the current confidence of plethora of indigenous products from India. From HTT-40 to Tejas, he played a key role in rescuing many programs from being killed off.

Just catching up on AI-2021 and couldn't help thinking of his role. He left too soon...

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 07 Feb 2021 20:33

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 60544?s=20 ---> Report: Indian Air Force to induct Israeli Spice 250 ER SOWS which has range of over 150km. It an be launched in swarms to give high attack volumes and uses DSMAC with artificial intelligence algorithms to achieve high accuracies.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby D.Mahesh » 08 Feb 2021 10:25

Aditya_V wrote:
Philip wrote:A titbit from IDRW.IAF MIG-29 UPGs are equiv to block 52 F-16s ... Astra-1 is equiv. to Paki AIM-120 AMRAAMs.


That's why it should have been called operation Swift Retreat, after a few minutes PAF retreated and PA....


Training, Op Readiness & Ops costs money - Lots & lots of money. In a spares scarcity situation, with **s* poor replacements (Bunder I mean) where a new airframe can't delver even 40% availability (and less serviceability) generating even 20 sorties a day is a huge expense.
According to that well known PAF 1-Star, you know, how PAF refused to fly even CAP during Op.Kargil. Right now 2 3* in Tspaf fighting over char tara position. That's how bad it is.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Picklu » 08 Feb 2021 23:49

The spice 250 ER looks very similar to SAAW

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 08 Feb 2021 23:59

https://twitter.com/singhshwetabh71/sta ... 94273?s=20 ---> So when the first of MiG-29s came, they were equipped with the RD-33 Series 1 engines. These were notoriously bad for having a very small TTL (Total Technical Life) and TBO (Time between overhaul). Roughly around 300-350 hours for TBO and 700-800 hours for TTL (comparable to MiG-21bis).

https://twitter.com/singhshwetabh71/sta ... 94273?s=20 ---> BTW in picture, is ground crew (?) of a MiG 29 of No 28 First Supersonics Squadron.

https://twitter.com/singhshwetabh71/sta ... 97856?s=20 ---> Fortunately they made improvements with this one and the Series 3 engines are somewhat comparable to a lot of modern engines.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 09 Feb 2021 00:05

https://twitter.com/singhshwetabh71/sta ... 86496?s=20 ---> Even though MiG-29s were always touted as Indian answer to PAF's F16s, it was actually the MiG 23MF, the interceptor variant, which was our immediate response. The IAF had already evaluated the-MiG 23 (both BN and MF) in 1979 and hence were comfortable inducting it as a response.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 09 Feb 2021 00:54

I remember on BRF that Mig 23/27 was a forced purchase as part of purchases for Mig 25 & 29s. Cant find it now

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 10 Feb 2021 08:04

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Philip » 10 Feb 2021 08:09

MIG-23s were ordered to counter Pak's F-16s,the MIG-27 for ground attack,then M2Ks and MIG-29s too.
AM Ramachandran was first to fly the MIG-25 and AM P.Rajkumar the first to fly the MIG-23/27 on a secret mission to Russia evaluating the aircraft which later entered service with the IAF.

I dearly hope that the flyby of the B-1 bomber from the US will have finally knocked some sense into the heads of the IAF top brass,obsessed with fighters but have dropped the bomb with bombers which we used to operate,Canberras. For 2 decades+ I've been saying that we should possess supersonic LR maritime strike bombers and the same holds good for the IAF.In the unexpected spat with the PRC today, we discovered that we are at a huge disadvantage with the PLAAF possessing over 230 (!) H-6 locally built Tupolev TU-16 bombers that can carry large nos. of stand-off ASMs. These bombers can carry out strikes against most north Indian cities including the capital with impunity while we do not even have anything similar to hit major Chin cities.
If the sh*t really hits the fan,expect the same .

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby MeshaVishwas » 10 Feb 2021 21:27


8)

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Indranil » 11 Feb 2021 00:05

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/status/1358305527198060544?s=20 ---> Report: Indian Air Force to induct Israeli Spice 250 ER SOWS which has range of over 150km. It an be launched in swarms to give high attack volumes and uses DSMAC with artificial intelligence algorithms to achieve high accuracies.

I don't fully understand why they went for a turbojet. Wouldn't a sustainer rocket engine for example the ones seen in anti-armor, anti-ship missiles be cheaper and less cumbersome.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby brar_w » 11 Feb 2021 19:42

Indranil wrote:
Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/status/1358305527198060544?s=20 ---> Report: Indian Air Force to induct Israeli Spice 250 ER SOWS which has range of over 150km. It an be launched in swarms to give high attack volumes and uses DSMAC with artificial intelligence algorithms to achieve high accuracies.

I don't fully understand why they went for a turbojet. Wouldn't a sustainer rocket engine for example the ones seen in anti-armor, anti-ship missiles be cheaper and less cumbersome.


My guess is that the turbojet gives them better range and envelope considering that majority of the aircraft employing this munition (and needing the additional stand off range) will be altitude constrained in a heavily defended environment due to their RCS and survivability concerns. This will allow their F-16's and F-15 I's to stay low while still getting some of the stand off advantages that the glide Spice had when launched from altitude. They've basically followed the UK approach (Spear III) though had they primarily designed for their F-35I integration they would have probably preferred a faster weapon that could at the very least retain the traditional time-to-target at double or more the distance when launched from altitude. Not sure if this solution will get them that. Even with the turbojet the max range shots are going to take quite a long time to get to target which is not optimal for some of the target set on the 250 class weapon though it would make sense for the larger Spice family packages if they apply the same solution set there (like the JSOW for example).


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