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Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

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darshhan
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby darshhan » 30 Jun 2017 08:12

What we need to do is to expand our options. Training and outfitting 20000 natives for guerrilla ops wouldnt be a bad start.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Karthik S » 30 Jun 2017 08:31

Pigeon rightly said in a conf, best way to tacke cheen is through missiles, need to mass produce nirbhays, brahmos, all SAM varieties like sausages as Soviets said once. Plenty of missiles to cover 1500 km from our borders, deny them space to land, road to travel, place to store. And one of their main life line artery is shipping routes in IOR, we desperately need SSKs and SSNs for that.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby sanjaykumar » 30 Jun 2017 09:32

In a substantially stretched military confrontation I would say, it will be India's war to lose. And I am talking of today, not when we have 100s of LCAs and 10000 nirbhays and 20 trillion dollar economy etc.


You may be right, it is the Chinese media and by extension the CCP that is hysterical. Indian media and GOI seem to be sanguine about what may be coming.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Prem » 30 Jun 2017 09:43

sanjaykumar wrote:In a substantially stretched military confrontation I would say, it will be India's war to lose. And I am talking of today, not when we have 100s of LCAs and 10000 nirbhays and 20 trillion dollar economy etc.
You may be right, it is the Chinese media and by extension the CCP that is hysterical. Indian media and GOI seem to be sanguine about what may be coming.


For Once 1/2 Paki Shukla said it right that Indian silence is the silence of the winner.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby sanjaykumar » 30 Jun 2017 10:40

Can you point me to where he said this?

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Iyersan » 30 Jun 2017 11:04

Will there be a war? All scenarios point to Bhutan being the flashpoint

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Singha » 30 Jun 2017 11:27

I think Bhutans time as a peaceful buffer country has sadly ended. they will have to pick a side or be open to slicing and dicing in the north. they will have to expend some money and time and people to militarizing their north border, which is mountainous for the most part and not east to get to.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Singha » 30 Jun 2017 11:29

if there is a war India will go through bhutan too and take away the piece of tibet that is boxed between sikkim and bhutan. the loss of 100x50=5000 sq km of land in full media glare from our side fed into western MSM will be the biggest loss of face for cheen since tiananmen square.

Xi might need to pin the blame on PLA generals and purge some of them to save his own skin. there is no question of indian defeat in the tri junction area. i think they have a bare 1 base in xigase and another in lhasa for airport while i could name 10 bigger ones on indian side, with railways in support. and massive cantonments all over...some are so large they could not get land in one place and are strung out over miles and miles like the red horn division which is based from changsari near guwahati over a 50km stretch to rangiya and beyond. their motor pool is jaw dropping - i remember it as a kid going on the NH to my mothers village.

its a 5 min flight from bagdogra and hashimara for tactical aircraft to savage their logistics in the triangle.

and we have enough fighters onsite to kill anything that flies 100km north of the border.

https://www.google.co.in/maps/@27.68937 ... 2538,8.15z

they are weak in theater and ripe for a good humiliation and punishment.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Karthik S » 30 Jun 2017 11:32

As a protectorate of Bhutan, we should station our troops there, a thousand or so should send the message. A pair or so of MKIs deliberately flying high so that cheen can get a message.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Singha » 30 Jun 2017 11:33

the king of bhutan has to make the call in best interests of his people and his own future. china has closed the middle road and forced him to choose.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby sum » 30 Jun 2017 11:39

Karthik S wrote:As a protectorate of Bhutan, we should station our troops there, a thousand or so should send the message. A pair or so of MKIs deliberately flying high so that cheen can get a message.

I believe all this are already in place. IIRC, the Bhutan zone comes under ENC of IA

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby deejay » 30 Jun 2017 11:41

Singha wrote:if there is a war India will go through bhutan too and take away the piece of tibet that is boxed between sikkim and bhutan. the loss of 100x50=5000 sq km of land in full media glare from our side fed into western MSM will be the biggest loss of face for cheen since tiananmen square.

Xi might need to pin the blame on PLA generals and purge some of them to save his own skin. there is no question of indian defeat in the tri junction area. i think they have a bare 1 base in xigase and another in lhasa for airport while i could name 10 bigger ones on indian side, with railways in support. and massive cantonments all over. its a 5 min flight from bagdogra and hashimara for tactical aircraft to savage their logistics in the triangle.

https://www.google.co.in/maps/@27.68937 ... 2538,8.15z


I am not sure of the present day but back in my time Bhutanese cadets trained with us at NDA. Then they went and joined Royal Bhutan Army. I am still in touch with some.

The interaction of the services are much deeper.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Singha » 30 Jun 2017 11:57

i think BRDO helps them in building and maintaining the roads and our mission there called IMTRAC(??) rotates people in and out including perhaps SF units for familiarization. but there is hardly any publicity of our dealings with the thunder dragon kingdom.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby pattnayak » 30 Jun 2017 12:06

There was an article in The Diplomat too a few years ago.

http://thediplomat.com/2014/11/bhutan-the-indian-armys-front-line/

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Singha » 30 Jun 2017 12:17

^^ i remember that and based my comment about SF on that but did not recall the URL. thanks for posting.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shashankk » 30 Jun 2017 12:18

Russian version of this incidence.

Tension Erupts as Chinese Troops Enter Indian Territory, Destroy Bunkers

A major scuffle has erupted along the India-China border as Chinese troops entered the Indian state of Sikkim and destroyed two Indian bunkers. Chinese troops also engaged in a fight with Indian troops, who are guarding the border at the location.

“The face-off has been going on in Doka La general area in Sikkim for the past 10 days and the Chinese troops have also stopped a batch of pilgrims proceeding on Kailash Mansarovar Yatra,” Indian defense ministry told to news agency PTI. Doka La is located at the tri-junction of Sikkim-Bhutan-Tibet. The situation remains tense despite a flag meeting held between senior army officers of both sides on June 20.


https://sputniknews.com/asia/201706261054985626-china-india-troops-territory/

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby rahulm » 30 Jun 2017 12:21

deejay wrote:
I am not sure of the present day but back in my time Bhutanese cadets trained with us at NDA. Then they went and joined Royal Bhutan Army. I am still in touch with some.

The interaction of the services are much deeper.


I remember this too. Many Bhutanese cadets would land up at Mr Bhutia's house - the only Professor of Tibetan at the NDA and since he and my dad were good friends the cadets would also land up at our place. My dad and and mum loved hosting them. They were very gentle, unassuming and polite to a fault.


Eventually, I travelled through Bhutan and it remains one of my best travel experiences.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Vikas » 30 Jun 2017 13:00

Is a war coming on the North Eastern Front ?
What if Chinese are drunk on their own self assumed invincibility and poor India of snake charmers myth ?

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby gauravsh » 30 Jun 2017 13:14

Vikas wrote:Is a war coming on the North Eastern Front ?

I doubt that. It may take longer, but de-escalation will happen. Was talking to one of my friends posted in Silliguri, he admitted to greater number of people being pushed up.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Karthik S » 30 Jun 2017 13:19

They are enemies with almost every neighbor, why would they pick up a fight with the strongest one, that too for a territory that nobody is going to even step on.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Vikas » 30 Jun 2017 13:27

^ My guess, They want to bash up the strongest neighbor to signal their arrival on the world stage of goons and bullies else people will just take their money in the name of OBOR and show middle finger.
Moreover Bharat not joining CPEC has suddenly put a investment of $50Billion in red and frustrations are coming out.

gauravsh: We may not see a full fledged war like 1962 but a skirmish lasting few days can not be ruled out. I think Indian Army too is ready to put these chinese verbal bullying to an end.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Marten » 30 Jun 2017 13:37

gauravsh wrote:
Vikas wrote:Is a war coming on the North Eastern Front ?

I doubt that. It may take longer, but de-escalation will happen. Was talking to one of my friends posted in Silliguri, he admitted to greater number of people being pushed up.

One would caution BRFites against sharing any information (even as trivial as train quotas running full) in the EC.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby gauravsh » 30 Jun 2017 13:50

Marten wrote:One would caution BRFites against sharing any information (even as trivial as train quotas running full) in the EC.

I did exercised restrain in what i was posting. Anyways point noted !!

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Prasad » 30 Jun 2017 14:48

MEA statement on this event - http://www.mea.gov.in/press-releases.ht ... oklam_Area

Recent Developments in Doklam Area
June 30, 2017
The Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs made a statement on 26 June 2017 alleging that Indian border troops crossed the boundary line in the Sikkim sector of the China-India boundary and entered Chinese territory. This has been reiterated since then in other Chinese official briefings.
The facts of the matter are as follows:
i.On 16 June, a PLA construction party entered the Doklam area and attempted to construct a road. It is our understanding that a Royal Bhutan Army patrol attempted to dissuade them from this unilateral activity. The Ambassador of the Royal Government of Bhutan (RGOB) has publicly stated that it lodged a protest with the Chinese Government through their Embassy in New Delhi on 20 June.

ii.Yesterday, the Foreign Ministry of Bhutan has also issued a statement underlining that the construction of the road inside Bhutanese territory is a direct violation of the 1988 and 1998 agreements between Bhutan and China and affects the process of demarcating the boundary between these two countries. They have urged a return to the status quo as before 16 June 2017.

iii.In keeping with their tradition of maintaining close consultation on matters of mutual interest, RGOB and the Government of India have been in continuous contact through the unfolding of these developments.

iv.In coordination with the RGOB, Indian personnel, who were present at general area Doka La, approached the Chinese construction party and urged them to desist from changing the status quo. These efforts continue.

v.The matter has been under discussion between India and China at the diplomatic level in the Foreign Ministries since then, both in New Delhi and Beijing. It was also the subject of a Border Personnel Meeting at Nathu La on 20 June.

India is deeply concerned at the recent Chinese actions and has conveyed to the Chinese Government that such construction would represent a significant change of status quo with serious security implications for India.
In this context, the Indian side has underlined that the two Governments had in 2012 reached agreement that the tri-junction boundary points between India, China and third countries will be finalized in consultation with the concerned countries. Any attempt, therefore, to unilaterally determine tri-junction points is in violation of this understanding.
Where the boundary in the Sikkim sector is concerned, India and China had reached an understanding also in 2012 reconfirming their mutual agreement on the "basis of the alignment”. Further discussions regarding finalization of the boundary have been taking place under the Special Representatives framework.
It is essential that all parties concerned display utmost restraint and abide by their respective bilateral understandings not to change the status quo unilaterally. It is also important that the consensus reached between India and China through the Special Representatives process is scrupulously respected by both sides.
India has consistently taken a positive approach to the settlement of its own boundary with China, along with the associated issue of the tri-junctions.
India cherishes peace and tranquillity in the India-China border areas. It has not come easily. Both sides have worked hard to establish institutional framework to discuss all issues to ensure peace and tranquillity in the India-China border areas. India is committed to working with China to find peaceful resolution of all issues in the border areas through dialogue.

New Delhi
30 June 2017

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shashankk » 30 Jun 2017 16:48

China asks India to respect side of border, pull out troops

Source:Global Times Published: 2017/6/29 21:03:39

China on Thursday asked India to respect China's sovereignty and withdraw troops which entered the Chinese side of the Sikkim section of the countries' border.

India should withdraw its troops to avoid "increasing intensions" further, Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Lu Kang said on Thursday.

Lu added that China has lodged several solemn representations to India after the incident, and both sides are maintaining smooth diplomatic communications.

"We urge India to withdraw troops that crossed the border and return to the Indian side. This is also the start of the solution, and foundation of any meaningful dialogue between both sides," Lu said.

Indian Army chief Gen Bipin Rawat shrugged off reports of a recent standoff between the Chinese People's Liberation Army and Indian troops in Sikkim, saying "there was no incursion into our territory. I don't know where the visuals are from, but they are not from Sikkim," the Hindustan Times reported Wednesday.

"His remarks show that the previous Indian media reports are fake," Lu said.

Lu said that the truth is that Indian border troops crossed the China-India boundary at the Sikkim section and entered Chinese territory.

The Donglang (Doklam) area belongs to China, not Bhutan and India, which has been proven by history and law, Lu told a regular conference on Wednesday, adding that "China's road construction in the Donglang area, which is our territory, is legitimate, and any other party has no right to interfere."

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1054179.shtml

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby DrRatnadip » 01 Jul 2017 16:10

https://www.thequint.com/opinion/2017/0 ... y-surprise

Nice article about past sino indian skirmishes..

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Karthik S » 01 Jul 2017 16:26

shashankk wrote:China asks India to respect side of border, pull out troops

Source:Global Times Published: 2017/6/29 21:03:39

China on Thursday asked India to respect China's sovereignty and withdraw troops which entered the Chinese side of the Sikkim section of the countries' border.

India should withdraw its troops to avoid "increasing intensions" further, Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Lu Kang said on Thursday.

Lu added that China has lodged several solemn representations to India after the incident, and both sides are maintaining smooth diplomatic communications.

"We urge India to withdraw troops that crossed the border and return to the Indian side. This is also the start of the solution, and foundation of any meaningful dialogue between both sides," Lu said.

Indian Army chief Gen Bipin Rawat shrugged off reports of a recent standoff between the Chinese People's Liberation Army and Indian troops in Sikkim, saying "there was no incursion into our territory. I don't know where the visuals are from, but they are not from Sikkim," the Hindustan Times reported Wednesday.

"His remarks show that the previous Indian media reports are fake," Lu said.

Lu said that the truth is that Indian border troops crossed the China-India boundary at the Sikkim section and entered Chinese territory.

The Donglang (Doklam) area belongs to China, not Bhutan and India, which has been proven by history and law, Lu told a regular conference on Wednesday, adding that "China's road construction in the Donglang area, which is our territory, is legitimate, and any other party has no right to interfere."

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1054179.shtml


Have tables turned already, wonder what's their munna thinking about now.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Iyersan » 01 Jul 2017 18:21

I don't think the matter would escalate.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby ArjunPandit » 01 Jul 2017 22:54

Iyersan wrote:I don't think the matter would escalate.

Even if this matter doesnt escalate, china will not take this matter lying down for sure. As they say price of freedom is eternal vigilance. They will come for sure

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby ashish raval » 02 Jul 2017 02:42

China with its open anti-India attitude expects us to not retaliate. It seems that China before it collapse economically wants to use their reserves to good use. None of the nation in Pacific are going to budge so let's try India.

Guess what!! Chinese do not understand India very well and so they try to use pissfull as a guide to understand how India is likely to respond in case of a conflict. I guess they have overestimated their power without necessarily estimating Indian strength.

I am close to being sure that Chinese would have done some math on Indian strength and weakness and cone to conclusions that in 5-10 years time, conflict with India will be a bloodier one and more detrimental than now and nearly impossible to win in 2 decades.

They only have very small window of opportunity in next two years and that will be gone because India will be too strong and self sufficient by then.

I am forwarding Chinese economy collapse in 2 years time when their debt will cross 300 percent and would need to borrow even more just to pay the interest on previous borrowings. All their gets will go wrong a) Pakistan b) NoKo c) OBOR d) Africa e) South China sea f) low cost manufacturing g) south America and they will end up loosing money and will only have themselves to blame - err Communists..I believe..

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby anupamd » 02 Jul 2017 11:20

The unspoken grudge for the Chinese is that Indian army maintains a permanent base in Ha valley Bhutan which is 2 days trek from the area in question. This base primary objective is to ensure that China does not engage in any incursions through Bhutan. Our relationship with Bhutan at all levels, from royalty to commoners, is one of the closest and often underplayed and overlooked in the mainstream Indian media. Needless to say, China will never be able to play any mischief through Bhutan.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby rohitvats » 02 Jul 2017 16:27

My analysis of the latest China India stand-off in Bhutanese territory:

http://vatsrohit.blogspot.in/2017/07/doklam-plateau-india-bhutan-and-china.html

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 03 Jul 2017 07:38

^^
Rohit - that is the best article I have read on the topic. Kudos.

Meanwhile I had a completely unexpected disk crash and my main loss is hundreds of Google earth placemarks that I had made for my China videos. Anyone - only one last one was half - done. I will do it later and start focusing on something new..

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Singha » 03 Jul 2017 07:42

Shiv had a same exp at home recently. was triggered it seems by hooking a new monitor to the laptop. I suggest weekly backups to google or msft free cloud storage. about 15gb of free in each

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby pandyan » 03 Jul 2017 08:09

At the minimum turn on windows history and backup to external usb hd. They are very affordable anyway. Windows history also protects against accidental overwrites as it tracks versions

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 03 Jul 2017 08:23

Thanks for the suggestions. I have too many backups of too many things in duplicate and triplicate. I have 8 HDDs sitting in the cupboard ranging from 160 GB to 500 GB all working all changed before a disk crash occurred. Add 3 external drives totalling 1.5 TB. It should be illegal to have more storage than sense

This was a 15 month old 1 TB drive where the Linux partition and GRUB boot area got corrupted by a power surge and was unrecoverable using every trick and recovery method in the book. The other 3 partitions on the disk with data were untouched I had everything backed up except GE placemarks because.
a) I did not expect the disk to crash so soon
b) It was not important enough

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby DrRatnadip » 03 Jul 2017 13:51

shiv wrote:^^
Rohit - that is the best article I have read on the topic. Kudos.

Meanwhile I had a completely unexpected disk crash and my main loss is hundreds of Google earth placemarks that I had made for my China videos. Anyone - only one last one was half - done. I will do it later and start focusing on something new..


Sir chinese are trying to hack your computer.. :rotfl:

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 03 Jul 2017 14:58

DrRatnadip wrote:
shiv wrote:^^
Rohit - that is the best article I have read on the topic. Kudos.

Meanwhile I had a completely unexpected disk crash and my main loss is hundreds of Google earth placemarks that I had made for my China videos. Anyone - only one last one was half - done. I will do it later and start focusing on something new..


Sir chinese are trying to hack your computer.. :rotfl:

+108

Definitely The same thing that caused the Su-30 accident hacked my computer

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Iyersan » 03 Jul 2017 15:09

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 422611.cms
'India violated border ahead of Modi's US visit to show Washington it can contain China', says Chinese media :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby DrRatnadip » 03 Jul 2017 15:31

Iyersan wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/india-violated-border-ahead-of-modis-us-visit-to-show-washington-it-can-contain-china-says-chinese-media/articleshow/59422611.cms
'India violated border ahead of Modi's US visit to show Washington it can contain China', says Chinese media :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:


China is learning this art of playing victim from biggest victim of terror i.e. porkiland..
P.S. I will be very happy if this news is true :wink:


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