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Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby chola » 17 Jul 2017 17:23

Our biggest problem is a lack of intel on Cheen and so are dependent on western, mainly Amreekan, reports. Without proper intel, our stance veers between two extremes: disdain ("fake propaganda") and fear ("Holy shit! It might not be fake propaganda.") There is no nuance.

The reason we are dependent on Amreekan reports on Cheen is they have a massive economic, academic and intelligence presense in Cheen (and in every other important nation on earth) but we don't.

Now, the problem with Amreekan reports is they are geared towards the US perspective. The US is in such an overwhelmingly dominant position that it needs to manufacture "rivals" in order to keep itself on its toes and continue innovating. It needs to hype Cheen's power to allocate more money and resources to a military budget that is already bigger than the rest of the world combined. India's problem, according to Shiv, is a case of dhoti-shivering which means we need to tamp down instead of hyping up Cheen's power.

So what happens when you use Amreekan reports on Cheen when you're Indian? Lungi quaking on steroids!

Lesson: do not use Western/Amreekan reports on Cheen, including those from ToI, Hindu, etc. that regurgitate Western stuff. Post ONLY reports that has an Indian author and must not include any form of rewriting from Reuters, UPI or any other western agency. This might cut our chini news volume by 99% but that is the point -- we do not want to be scared shitless by Western yellow peril journalism.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby disha » 18 Jul 2017 07:52

Funny part of the "super-dog" engineering was that the first dog was named "Little long long". Maybe this was indeed an experiment for putting muscle in the right areas!

In the meantime., this news made me cry:

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/india-trespassing-into-doklam-must-withdraw-unconditionally-china

With no end in sight to the standoff in the Sikkim sector, China on Saturday said there is “no room” for negotiations to resolve the military face-off and the only solution is the withdrawal of Indian troops from the Donglang or Doklam region.

India will face “embarrassment” if it does not withdraw its border troops to its own side and the situation could get “worse”, the official Xinhua news agency said in a commentary on Saturday night.

“China has made it clear that there is no room for negotiations on this incident, and India must withdraw its border-crossing troops from Doklam. For China, border line is the bottom line,” the commentary said.

The commentary sought to add yet another dimension to the face-off by bringing in the Ladakh region and linking it to Pakistan, China’s “iron brother” ally.

“India should not regard the existing situation as the same as or even similar to the previous two standoffs in 2013 and 2014 near Ladakh, a disputed area between China, Pakistan and India in southeastern Kashmir. Diplomatic efforts led the troop’s frictions there to a well-arranged end. But this time it is a totally different case,” it added.

It is rare for China to call Ladakh a “disputed” region and make a reference to Kashmir.

This is the first time that China has clearly articulated – through one of its primary official channels - that there is no room for parleys to resolve the weeks-long impasse in Donglang, which is under China’s control but claimed by Bhutan.

Until now, the foreign ministry had listed the withdrawal of Indian troops hinted as a precondition for resolving the face-off but had hinted there is an ongoing effort to end it through diplomatic negotiations.

Xinhua is an organ of the Chinese government and is affiliated to the State Council, the Communist country’s cabinet.

Commentaries published by Xinhua and the People’s Daily, the Communist Party of China (CPC) mouthpiece, are taken to be a reflection of the thoughts of the government and the all-powerful CPC.

“India has repeatedly ignored China's call for pulling its border-crossing troops from Doklam area back to its own territory. However, turning a deaf ear to China will but worsen the month-long standoff and put itself further into embarrassment,” the commentary said.

It added that India had “lied” to the world by saying it dispatched troops to Donglang to help its ally Bhutan, whereas “apparently” Thimphu had extended no invitation to New Delhi to intervene.

“New Delhi claimed encroachment of its own territory by China before saying it sent troops to ’protect’ its ‘ally’ Bhutan, a sovereign state which has apparently so far made no such an invitation for the sake of that boundary area,” it said.

Bhutan and China don’t have diplomatic ties but have held 24 rounds of talks to resolve a boundary dispute.

The commentary, however, described foreign secretary S Jaishankar’s remarks during a recent speech in Singapore as a “positive” sign.

“As an old Chinese saying goes, peace is most precious. It has been noticed that Indian Foreign Secretary Subrahmanyam Jaishankar recently has made positive remarks in Singapore, saying that ‘India and China should not let differences become disputes’,” it said.

“What China would like to see more are corresponding actions taken by India.

“China has a will to solve the problem peacefully by diplomatic means, and China also cherishes the peace and serenity in the border areas, but the precondition is that the trespassers of India must withdraw unconditionally.”

This article was first published in Hindustan Times and has been republished here with permission.


I am so moved to tears by the entreaties the little long long's are giving to SDREs.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Guddu » 18 Jul 2017 08:15

Its almost funny. The Chinese are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Yet they are begging for a face saving compromise while trying to bully us at the same time. Looks like its been a while, that someone has called their bluff, and they dont know what to do. the word impotent rage comes to mind :mrgreen:

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby DavidD » 18 Jul 2017 09:52

shiv wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:Another aspect of these exaggerated reports on msm of to get increased funding

Anything I say in this regard is liable to be taken as "wishful thinking" - but I have noticed - just in the last 4-5 years a massive increase in Chinese propaganda about how they are suddenly up there with the US - whereas only 6-8 years ago - right here on this forum we only used to see photoshopped propaganda photos.

Assume that there really was some deep, secret research happening in China, and that to my mind leads to two conclusions
1. That secret research seems to have skipped a lot of developmental steps from medium tech to cutting edge tech in every sphere which sounds very suspicious to me.
2. There is obviously a media blitz now - where all that research that was kept secret till 5 years ago is not being announced every day as a big success in every tech field

If some acquaintance of mine boasted in this manner I would rapidly stop believing him. But doing that about China is difficult because Indians warn me that I am stupid and I am "ignoring China" and I am therefore somehow indulging in anti-national behaviour by making people less anxious about Chinese developments compared with Indian incompetence.

My attitude is that I must be insane and that there is a place for insane people on this earth.


It's called money. It takes money to do research, and China not only has a lot more money now, the country has also put a strong emphasis on R&D with research budget rising even faster than GDP. In 1996 research made up 0.57% of a GDP of $860 billion, in 2016 it's over 2% of a GDP of ~$11 trillion. That comes out to ~45 fold increase in research spending.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/GB. ... ions=CN-IN

There's still plenty of work to do, of course. The overall quality of the papers published is still low, there are still loopholes in the system that allows cheaters to seep through (Nature recently retracted 100+ Chinese papers due to faked peer review process), and 2% of GDP while high for a developing country is still nowhere near world leaders like Japan or SK who spend ~4% of GDP on research.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Philip » 18 Jul 2017 12:26

http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/chinas ... s-in-india
China's first overseas naval base makes waves in India
Chinese soldiers participate in a flag-raising ceremony at the People's Liberation Army navy base in Hong Kong. According to reports, last Tuesday, ships carrying troops that will man the facility in Djibouti left the southern Chinese port of Zhanjia

PUBLISHEDJUL 17, 2017,

The facility in Djibouti seen as a first step towards growing military presence in the Indian Ocean
Goh Sui Noi China Bureau Chief In Beijing
The Chinese may prefer to call their new naval base in Djibouti in the Horn of Africa, on the north-western edge of the Indian Ocean, a support facility. But this does not change the fact that China has set up its first overseas military base, a significant development.

"It is the first major step of the Chinese military to improve its power projection capability," said Associate Professor Li Mingjiang of the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies at the Nanyang Technological University.

It is also possibly the first of more to come as the rising power's interests grow worldwide and it develops its blue water navy - one that can operate globally - to protect those interests. Analysts have said that for now, China's focus is still closer to home - the Asia-Pacific, particularly the East and South China seas and the western Pacific.

But its efforts to strengthen its presence in the Indian Ocean, through whose sea lanes much of its trade and energy supplies flow, will bring it up against the major power in the region, India.

China began building the logistics base in Djibouti last year and, last Tuesday, ships carrying troops that will man the facility left the southern Chinese port of Zhanjiang.

It would "ensure China's performance of missions, such as escorting, peacekeeping and humanitarian aid in Africa and west Asia", reported state news agency Xinhua last Tuesday. "The base will also be conducive to overseas tasks, including military cooperation, joint exercises, evacuating and protecting overseas Chinese and emergency rescue, as well as jointly maintaining security of international strategic seaways," it added.

This development has come after China started deploying naval ships to waters off Somalia in the Gulf of Aden in 2008, to run escort missions for merchant ships in the pirate-infested waters there.

China also has 2,500 soldiers and police officers taking part in United Nations peacekeeping missions in various parts of Africa, including South Sudan, Liberia and Mali.

There are also about one million Chinese nationals living and working in Africa. The base would allow for quick evacuation of these Chinese nationals if needed, some analysts have said.

China's is not the first foreign military base on Djibouti soil. Because of its strategic position close to the Bab el-Mandeb Strait, a gateway to the Suez Canal that links the Indian Ocean to the Mediterranean Sea, other countries including the United States, France and Japan also have bases there.

However, while the US will be watchful of Chinese activities in the region, the base is not a major concern for the Americans yet, noted Prof Li. This is because the base is mainly for repairs and supply, and its power projection function is limited at the moment.

Instead, the country that would be most concerned would be India as the base is "a clear signal that China's naval presence in the Indian Ocean will dramatically increase in the years to come", he said.

And indeed, The Times of India in a report last Tuesday said the base "represents the 'first pearl of a necklace' unfolding along the sea route that connects China to the Middle East".

"It has fuelled worries in India that it's part of China's strategy to encircle the Indian subcontinent ('the string of pearls') with the help of military alliances and assets in Bangladesh, Myanmar and Sri Lanka," it added.

Already, relations between the two regional powers are fraught, with simmering border disputes that flare up from time to time, including a current row involving a road that China is building on disputed territory.

Also, India, the US and Japan conducted their largest naval exercise ever last week in the Indian Ocean, under the Malabar series that began in 1992. It had the Chinese worried, with the China Daily noting in an editorial that "China should feel 'security concerns'".

Certainly, China's increasing presence in the Indian Ocean has heightened tensions in its relations with India. It has not helped that China's Belt and Road Initiative to revive the ancient land and sea trade routes that link China to Africa and Europe involves deepening economic ties between China and smaller countries in India's neighbourhood.

However, analysts like Dr Nilanthi Samaranayake of the US-based think-tank CNA said India has to come to terms with China's entry into the Indian Ocean.

One approach India could take, said Prof Li, would be to include China in the institutions of the Indian Ocean region, including the Indian Ocean Naval Symposium, of which China is an observer.


That piece of advice simply put,stinks of "appeasement" and acknowledgement of China as Asia's top dog to whom all nations must approach on bended knees. India should start building its own base facilities/logistic agreements for the IN/IAF/IA with friendly nation in the Indo-China Sea and IOR littorals and island entities.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Rakesh » 25 Jul 2017 04:08

Nathu La and Cho La clashes Of 1967: How the Indian Army dealt with Chinese trouble
https://swarajyamag.com/defence/nathu-l ... se-trouble

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Rakesh » 25 Jul 2017 04:22

Doklam: Keeping the Powder Dry!
http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news ... owder-dry/

By Lt Gen JS Bajwa

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Rakesh » 25 Jul 2017 04:22

Chinese Doklam standoff very different from previous border disputes
http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news ... -disputes/

By Brig Arun Bajpai

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Kanson » 25 Jul 2017 11:45

From Managing Chinese threat[https://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?p=2189944#p2189944]
Ofcourse with needed disclaimers.
Kanson wrote:Here are the reasons for China for doing what it is doing currently:

Indian is managing a PoK attack & retake of strategic areas or total PoK, that could stop CPEC in its tracks, checkmate Chinese influence around IR and also could stop OBOR totally.

All these heightened low warfare which is termed as routine along LoC and other such actions or recent Sushma's statement in support of PoK resident for medical treatment are outward manifestation of the under current that could bring tectonic shift in Geopolitics & power projection.

There might have been talks on this(at NSA level or higher) with leading powers and they could be willing participate in such elaborate plan. There is a definite alligning of interest here among powers that is against China and OBOR.

Sensing this, that India could cut China's access to PoK, it is trying to offset that by showing its clout of what it can do to India's 'Chicken neck'.

At present, we could simply take it that as warning. India already gamed the eventual possibilities. As EAM said, we are prepared.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 04 Aug 2017 09:46

I pledged to look at the entire goddam border between north Dharmasala (aka Tibet) and India in January 2017.

7 months later I am done with it - and have 9 videos of what I found. Here is a link to my last video and a link to all 9. I hope other maniacs can carry on the work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNqlLSUg5p8


Link to playlist of 9 videos

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 04 Aug 2017 11:59

Folks this image intrigued me. There is one young man on the frontline with glasses
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9yzG22_bfh4/U ... sonnel.jpg

Then, on a hunch I started searching

Image

Image

The myopia boom
The southern city of Guangzhou has long held the largest eye hospital in China. But about five years ago, it became clear that the Zhongshan Ophthalmic Center needed to expand.

More and more children were arriving with the blurry distance vision caused by myopia, and with so many needing eye tests and glasses, the hospital was bursting at the seams. So the centre began adding new testing rooms — and to make space, it relocated some of its doctors and researchers to a local shopping mall. Now during the summer and winter school holidays, when most diagnoses are made, “thousands and thousands of children” pour in every day, says ophthalmologist Nathan Congdon, who was one of those uprooted. “You literally can't walk through the halls because of all the children.”


I am sure a lot of Chinese children get eliminated from joining the PLA if they have Myopia. But those who become myopic after joining will need glasses

Reading instruments, sighting one's rifle etc are a problem for people who need glasses

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Karthik S » 04 Aug 2017 12:12

shiv wrote:Folks this image intrigued me. There is one young man on the frontline with glasses
The southern city of Guangzhou has long held the largest eye hospital in China. But about five years ago, it became clear that the Zhongshan Ophthalmic Center needed to expand.

More and more children were arriving with the blurry distance vision caused by myopia, and with so many needing eye tests and glasses, the hospital was bursting at the seams. So the centre began adding new testing rooms — and to make space, it relocated some of its doctors and researchers to a local shopping mall. Now during the summer and winter school holidays, when most diagnoses are made, “thousands and thousands of children” pour in every day, says ophthalmologist Nathan Congdon, who was one of those uprooted. “You literally can't walk through the halls because of all the children.”


I am sure a lot of Chinese children get eliminated from joining the PLA if they have Myopia. But those who become myopic after joining will need glasses

Reading instruments, sighting one's rifle etc are a problem for people who need glasses


I saw almost every Chinese student wear glasses, is it genetic thing? Because I think their diet has improved over ours, but in desis comparatively far fewer wore glasses.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Manish_P » 04 Aug 2017 13:07

shiv wrote:
I am sure a lot of Chinese children get eliminated from joining the PLA if they have Myopia. But those who become myopic after joining will need glasses

Reading instruments, sighting one's rifle etc are a problem for people who need glasses


Shiv ji. You must have seen their spate of new achievements announcements... EMALs, Stealth, Teleportation... now after reading your post next week they will announce a new techonology in advanced stage of development - automatic sights which in real-time adjust to take in account the myopia of the soldier to ensure a bulls-eye :wink:

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 05 Aug 2017 06:33

No wonder the PLA is reducing recruitment
http://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-maga ... tion-being
“Alarmingly, more than 80 per cent of the entire adult population will be myopic within the next 30 years,” say the PolyU researchers, and their study also found that the prevalence of myopia in Chinese children is noticeably higher than among other ethnic groups in Hong Kong.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby salaam » 05 Aug 2017 07:25

shiv wrote:Thanks for the suggestions. I have too many backups of too many things in duplicate and triplicate. I have 8 HDDs sitting in the cupboard ranging from 160 GB to 500 GB all working all changed before a disk crash occurred. Add 3 external drives totalling 1.5 TB. It should be illegal to have more storage than sense

This was a 15 month old 1 TB drive where the Linux partition and GRUB boot area got corrupted by a power surge and was unrecoverable using every trick and recovery method in the book. The other 3 partitions on the disk with data were untouched I had everything backed up except GE placemarks because.
a) I did not expect the disk to crash so soon
b) It was not important enough


Have a look at this. Disks are hot swappable and you can choose a raid configuration of your liking. 1-2 disk failures can be tolerated, depending how much space you want and Raid configuration level.

QNAP TS-451+ 4-Bay Next Gen Personal Cloud NAS, Intel 2.0GHz Quad-Core CPU with Media Transcoding https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015VNLGF8/re ... Hzb1Z829ZA

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Guddu » 05 Aug 2017 07:44

Myopia in Chinese likely reflects the population being studied, select univ students, many will be myopic, select country boys/gals, likely fewer myopics.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 05 Aug 2017 07:49

Yes but increasing technology requires education and good eyesight for people in the Chinese armed forces.

Images of Chinese children show many with glasses. PLA images show very few. What are the PLA hiding? Most images are not "candid". They are parades or propagandu pics where people are selected to appear uniform

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Rudradev » 05 Aug 2017 11:14

Shiv there is always lasik. Not costly these days. I myself couldn't join the armed forces as I had always wanted because of severe myopia (wore glasses since 7 years old) and by the time lasik became available to me, I had chosen another path in life and was already too old. But I'm sure there must be whole factories of lasik providers in Cheen for their kids to avail of.

And it's stunningly effective. I had 20-20 vision in both eyes for 16 years after lasik.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Singha » 05 Aug 2017 12:04

perhaps like ashkenazi jews are more prone to certain problems rare in other populations, so too the yindu for cardiac issues, so too the Sinic dna strands are setting up for eye issues? maybe higher levels of smog/pollution in the big cheen cities impact younger kids?

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 05 Aug 2017 12:11

Im looking for some information about what the PLA is doing about recruits who are coming in with myopia in large numbers

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby manjgu » 05 Aug 2017 14:41

i was watching a vid on tank biathlon 2017...they panned the camera on the chinese contingent and a very large no of people had specs !!! looked a bit abnormal ...

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby NRao » 05 Aug 2017 14:46

So just how far are the Chinese from Delhi? It would be a travesty if they at least cannot smell chaat.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby abhik » 05 Aug 2017 15:11

One sees US army soldiers wearing glasses, not sure if these are rear echelon guys.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby YashG » 06 Aug 2017 17:52

Full Scale war with China likely soon!?

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/full-scale-india-china-war-likely-soon-says-meghnad-desai/1/1019794.html

Usually if a Chinese media says this - I wouldn't be surprised (btw it already is pointing to some action in two weeks) but Meghnad Desai is a fairly respected man and I really wonder why his reading is that a war is imminent. WW2 started off from a silly assasnation of archduke of Italy. Things on ground do not suggest China has much to gain. If US were to drop in its hat in the ring - its even worse. Why would then a full sclae war be on the horizon?

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby vina » 07 Aug 2017 06:34

Singha wrote:perhaps like ashkenazi jews are more prone to certain problems rare in other populations, so too the yindu for cardiac issues, so too the Sinic dna strands are setting up for eye issues? maybe higher levels of smog/pollution in the big cheen cities impact younger kids?

Its genetic. The Chinese have a big predisposition to wearing glasses. In Singapore , if you notice the population , the percentage wearing glasses (even as kids) will be whoppingly high. This was noticed by the Brits when they were there even pre WWII and hence the "stereotype" of "Asians" having defective vision, until the Japanese Kicked their Mushrrafs in WWII.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 07 Aug 2017 06:42

YashG wrote:If US were to drop in its hat in the ring
I am not sure why a lot of people keep bringing the US into the picture. The US will not join a war between India and China.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby sum » 07 Aug 2017 07:46

vina wrote:Its genetic. The Chinese have a big predisposition to wearing glasses. In Singapore , if you notice the population , the percentage wearing glasses (even as kids) will be whoppingly high. This was noticed by the Brits when they were there even pre WWII and hence the "stereotype" of "Asians" having defective vision, until the Japanese Kicked their Mushrrafs in WWII.

Same in Korea too. Huge numbers of kids seem to be on glasses

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby YashG » 07 Aug 2017 13:20

shiv wrote:
YashG wrote:If US were to drop in its hat in the ring
I am not sure why a lot of people keep bringing the US into the picture. The US will not join a war between India and China.


No, Its not me who's brininging US into the picture, the story I posted - its Meghnad Desai who brought US into the picture. I dont see a lot of likelihood of what he says but again this guy aint a Chinese propagandist infact in his previous comments on China ha has been the opposite.

What I do wonder and want to discuss is why would some sane like him feel that we're close to the war. Ground reality suggests otherwise - Is there something we're missing to look at?

---------------
Also would like to add this amazing peice of geo-politcal commentary - I think most of the things this guys say make sense.
http://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/doklam-standoff-india-must-pick-fight-carefully-when-it-comes-to-china-117080700119_1.html

This commentary to summarize says:
#1. Chinese didnt expect the strong Indian response (expected) but more importantly China will take lessons from Doklam far beyond the immediate border - (My take: this will be interesting - I hope they dont take the wrong lessons - which they may very likely)
#2. India aint at a disadvantage at the border but it is in bigger geo-economical games that China plays - India should tackle that innovatively
#3. China is not making the sacrifices that it should in order to occupy the leadership vaccuum US is leaving. ( I always thought so, Chinses are too myopic & transactional to build long lasting relationships - If you see its deepest relationships are with failed states - Pakistan & NoKo :D . India atlest has good ties with Israel, Bhutan, Japan, Russia & so on)

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 07 Aug 2017 14:59

YashG wrote: its Meghnad Desai who brought US into the picture. I dont see a lot of likelihood of what he says but again this guy aint a Chinese propagandist infact in his previous comments on China ha has been the opposite.

What I do wonder and want to discuss is why would some sane like him feel that we're close to the war.

Desai is not necessarily in touch with ground reality in India - vide his views on demonetization and nationalism.

Demonetisation torpedoed India’s economy just when it was getting into a cruise mode,


Meghnad Desai explains the fallacies in the idea of Hindu nationalism
In a new essay, the economics professor from the LSE highlights the flaws in this version of history.


Personally I don't bother reading what some Brit lord says. When there is a border standoff between India and China -war is always on the cards and those who predict war will say " I told you so" if it happens and those who say "there will be no war" will say "I told you so" if there is no war. So no single person will know more than anyone else.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby pankajs » 07 Aug 2017 15:26

[quote="YashG]Also would like to add this amazing peice of geo-politcal commentary - I think most of the things this guys say make sense. http://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/doklam-standoff-india-must-pick-fight-carefully-when-it-comes-to-china-117080700119_1.html[/quote]

My comment is with regards the jurno. Let me list the question that clearly has a slant.
1. How do you think the Trump administration would react in case hostilities were to break out on the India-China border? [1st level > Will America save India from the invading Chinese hordes? 2nd level> What has Modi done picking a fight with a stronger neighbor?]

2. How do you see the larger game between India and China playing out in the medium and long term given the gap between the two countries in terms of military strength, nuclear warheads, income levels, even life expectancy?[1st level > What has Modi done picking a fight with a stronger neighbor? Can't he see the gap in the life expectancy? What chance does India have with that gap in life expectancy?]

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby YashG » 07 Aug 2017 16:41

pankajs wrote:[quote="YashG]Also would like to add this amazing peice of geo-politcal commentary - I think most of the things this guys say make sense. http://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/doklam-standoff-india-must-pick-fight-carefully-when-it-comes-to-china-117080700119_1.html[/quote]

My comment is with regards the jurno. Let me list the question that clearly has a slant.
1. How do you think the Trump administration would react in case hostilities were to break out on the India-China border? [1st level > Will America save India from the invading Chinese hordes? 2nd level> What has Modi done picking a fight with a stronger neighbor?]

2. How do you see the larger game between India and China playing out in the medium and long term given the gap between the two countries in terms of military strength, nuclear warheads, income levels, even life expectancy?[1st level > What has Modi done picking a fight with a stronger neighbor? Can't he see the gap in the life expectancy? What chance does India have with that gap in life expectancy?][/quote]


I didnt read any anti-modi slant in her question - but we can agree to disagree on that. More important for me were Andrews' reponses - which calibrate well with what has been my general understanding. He sees the standoff as an event with which Beijing will calibrate its responses after they were caught on the wrong foot. He does categorically alludes to a miscalculation on the part of Beijing.

What remains to be seen is how will Beijing build this into its policy calculus? #1. Will its allow India a greater share of Strategic space and Cooperate? ( which if happens will surprise me)
#2. Will it punish India in the economic sphere in South Asia & beyond including through OBOR?

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 07 Aug 2017 18:10

YashG wrote:#2. Will it punish India in the economic sphere in South Asia & beyond including through OBOR?

I saw comments in another China thread about the spectacular success China has had in coercing SE Asian nations to water down a whine in relation to China and that gave me a thought.

How far can a nation like China push India and get away with it.

I see a number of narratives about China that imply guile, patience blah blah blah. "the Chinese are patient and will wit for aeons"
"The Chinese play a board game called wingwangwong or something where they surround the opponent"

yeah yeah yeah and all that. But
1. The Chinese have armed Pakistan against India and given them nukes
2. The Chinese have opposed India's entry to NSG
3. The Chinese oppose any expansion of UNSC that does not include shitistan
4. The Chinese are not allowing that Paki terrorist to be named and shamed by UN
5. The Chinese are hopping mad about Doklam
6. the Chinese this. the Chinese that...

At some point there is no more they can do other than get into a war. And they will have to win that war hands down. This is not going to go well for them

Talk about nuclear weapons is trash because they might drop 200 nukes and finish India off, but 20 Indian nukes on China plus the political fallout of nuclear war will finish China off as numero uno forever.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Kashi » 07 Aug 2017 18:33

sum wrote:Same in Korea too. Huge numbers of kids seem to be on glasses


Japanese kids seem to be OK though..

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 07 Aug 2017 19:39

Even for ASEAN nations that seem to be keeling over in front of Chinese might (as per reports) there will be some limits as to how far the Chinese can go.

Taiwan is an interesting story. Red China, it is asserted, can take over Taiwan any moment. The Taiwanese too know that they cannot hold out against a Chinese assault for very long. So why doesn't China take Taiwan over. let me make the excuses for you
  • Oh you don't know the Chinese. They are full of guile. They will wait for an international crisis where the US is busy and grab Taiwan
  • The Chinese - boy on boy - they have infinite patience. they will wait decades or centuries, but they will get what they want (duh-what?)
  • The Chinese live their strategy like their board game dingallawonga (or whatever)
Fact is China is not going to take over Taiwan anytime soon.

What about bullying other countries about resources. OK China is bullying and they are being bullied. How long is that going to continue. A nation has a degree of self pride that the Chinese must assuage and give them something in return. If not there will be a blowback at some time. Japan, Korea and Vietnam are not total pushovers. Maybe the Philippines is. North Korea is one country that has been pushed so far that neither the US nor China can do anything much without profound geopolitical consequences (I won't go beyond this general term)

If ASEAN nations are, as alleged by someone "not taking advantage" of the Doklam standoff it only means they have not been pushed as far by China as we fondly like to think they have.

The idea that "Myanmar: is under the Chinese sphere of influence as is Sri Lanka ignores the fact that China can do jackshit to help these countries if India decides to apply pressure on them. Let me rephrase that. It's not that China cannot do anything. They can - but no point in dismissing eveyrone else including India as complete pushovers

There is a tendency to magnify China in relation ot ourselves and other countries - and a Church Hymn that I had to sing as a schoolboy rings in my mind

o magnify The Lo-ord -er China with me
With me exalt His name er China's name


The European and Americans do not want to get into a war on the scale they had from 1914 to 1945. The Japanese too won't want that. The Chinese could miscalculate - having only gone into small wars and won a stupid brownie versus India. If the Chinese miscalculate their patience and skill at the bolyygillywong board game won;t help them. Even North Korea is no pushover. Let alone India. They can boast as much as they want.

I had a few fistfights in school and I will always recall a friend (now in Amreeka) who was always on my side who said "It's OK if they bash me up, but I'll make sure I'll hit them so hard they will never forget. I will at least break a jaw". The Chinese, after a period of provoking India ceaselessly are asking for it. This is a time to get ready to fight them and not talk peace.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby YashG » 07 Aug 2017 23:23

shiv wrote:
Taiwan is an interesting story. Red China, it is asserted, can take over Taiwan any moment. The Taiwanese too know that they cannot hold out against a Chinese assault for very long. So why doesn't China take Taiwan over. let me make the excuses for you


I have another theory here - why China would want to avoid wars - its the way power balance & Gini index are in China. Let me explain how. The distribution of power & wealth in China is very extreme unlike India. In an event of war, those at the top of the food chain in China will loose a lot lot more than the avg guy in India. Post war - China's governing structure could collapse -#1 due to economic pressures, #2 Leverage Western nations will wield. This would further worsen off the losses for elites in China.

Elites in China consolidate power by playing to the internal gallery - the war rhetoric against India is a result of playing to the same gallery. But a war would take away those power gains, the very gains that would have accrued due to war rhetoric!

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby RCase » 11 Aug 2017 14:32

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ-RJTHC4yU


Posting here as we don't have a BENIS equivalent for Cheeni Blothel.
Video is about cultural cross pollination and how China has absorbed quite a bit from India and not vice-versa.
The desi guy seems apologetic and doing a dhoti shiver.
More humorous is the Chinese guy, Victor Gao, glibly lying his way and making snide insinuations about India/ Indians:
- Chinese were great record keepers. (What about CR?). Indians were not great record keepers!
- Buddhism started in 'Nepal' and spread to India and then to rest of the world.
- India is fragmented and there is no unifying culture, whereas Chinese were homogenous with language and Culture (Wasn't Mao the one to shove Mandarin down everyones throat? There is no such thing as 'THE Chinese language').
- Tourism - India needs to have better infrastructure, transportation, safe drinking water etc. (why not state the obvious that the Chinese are pretty racist. India gets tourists from western countries, who have managed to put up with the above mentioned irritants, but generally are extremely happy with their visit).

I am so glad that these lizards were historically limited in their access to India by the Himalayas, else there would have been dash-lines all over the subcontinent and dubious territorial claims.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 15 Aug 2017 14:47

Praveen Swamy
http://indianexpress.com/article/explai ... m-4796971/

There are more than a few, moreover, who are sceptical of the combat qualities of this new cohort of PLA officers — products of China’s one-child policy, which spawned a generation derisively referred to as “Little Emperors”. PLA newspapers are replete with stories of new recruits using boarding-school tricks like spitting out red ink to avoid training.

I’d hide under my blanket and cry every night,” former cadet Sun Youpeng, who joined the PLA after graduating from university at the age of 22, told Minnie Chan of the South China Morning Post in 2014.

Liu Mingfu, a scholar at China’s National Defence University, estimated in a 2012 report that 70% of the PLA’s troops were only sons — a number rising to 80% among combat troops. In a country with a growing cohort of aged people, with ancient cultural norms against sending only sons to war, the consequences could be significant, Liu noted.


In some cases, the crisis of morale bred low farce: elements of the 67th Army, on their way out of Laoshan, demanded $ 1,500 from their 47th Army replacements for all intelligence on enemy positions and firepower. In another case, an armoured unit which did not receive care packages despatched its tanks to surround an infantry division headquarters and demand its share.


“Let our field armies touch the buttocks of a tiger,”

Yeah sure. kiss my butt

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 15 Aug 2017 15:18

Chinese lady puts Cruciatus curse on Indian
https://youtu.be/ZXlmhEJ4VlM

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Prasad » 15 Aug 2017 15:32

Now put together the Swamy article there and the presence, necessity rather, of a commissar at doklam to givvy up the border guards to up morale against our Jatt, Sikh soldiers..

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 15 Aug 2017 21:15



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