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Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

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chola
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby chola » 17 Jul 2017 17:23

Our biggest problem is a lack of intel on Cheen and so are dependent on western, mainly Amreekan, reports. Without proper intel, our stance veers between two extremes: disdain ("fake propaganda") and fear ("Holy shit! It might not be fake propaganda.") There is no nuance.

The reason we are dependent on Amreekan reports on Cheen is they have a massive economic, academic and intelligence presense in Cheen (and in every other important nation on earth) but we don't.

Now, the problem with Amreekan reports is they are geared towards the US perspective. The US is in such an overwhelmingly dominant position that it needs to manufacture "rivals" in order to keep itself on its toes and continue innovating. It needs to hype Cheen's power to allocate more money and resources to a military budget that is already bigger than the rest of the world combined. India's problem, according to Shiv, is a case of dhoti-shivering which means we need to tamp down instead of hyping up Cheen's power.

So what happens when you use Amreekan reports on Cheen when you're Indian? Lungi quaking on steroids!

Lesson: do not use Western/Amreekan reports on Cheen, including those from ToI, Hindu, etc. that regurgitate Western stuff. Post ONLY reports that has an Indian author and must not include any form of rewriting from Reuters, UPI or any other western agency. This might cut our chini news volume by 99% but that is the point -- we do not want to be scared shitless by Western yellow peril journalism.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby disha » 18 Jul 2017 07:52

Funny part of the "super-dog" engineering was that the first dog was named "Little long long". Maybe this was indeed an experiment for putting muscle in the right areas!

In the meantime., this news made me cry:

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/india-trespassing-into-doklam-must-withdraw-unconditionally-china

With no end in sight to the standoff in the Sikkim sector, China on Saturday said there is “no room” for negotiations to resolve the military face-off and the only solution is the withdrawal of Indian troops from the Donglang or Doklam region.

India will face “embarrassment” if it does not withdraw its border troops to its own side and the situation could get “worse”, the official Xinhua news agency said in a commentary on Saturday night.

“China has made it clear that there is no room for negotiations on this incident, and India must withdraw its border-crossing troops from Doklam. For China, border line is the bottom line,” the commentary said.

The commentary sought to add yet another dimension to the face-off by bringing in the Ladakh region and linking it to Pakistan, China’s “iron brother” ally.

“India should not regard the existing situation as the same as or even similar to the previous two standoffs in 2013 and 2014 near Ladakh, a disputed area between China, Pakistan and India in southeastern Kashmir. Diplomatic efforts led the troop’s frictions there to a well-arranged end. But this time it is a totally different case,” it added.

It is rare for China to call Ladakh a “disputed” region and make a reference to Kashmir.

This is the first time that China has clearly articulated – through one of its primary official channels - that there is no room for parleys to resolve the weeks-long impasse in Donglang, which is under China’s control but claimed by Bhutan.

Until now, the foreign ministry had listed the withdrawal of Indian troops hinted as a precondition for resolving the face-off but had hinted there is an ongoing effort to end it through diplomatic negotiations.

Xinhua is an organ of the Chinese government and is affiliated to the State Council, the Communist country’s cabinet.

Commentaries published by Xinhua and the People’s Daily, the Communist Party of China (CPC) mouthpiece, are taken to be a reflection of the thoughts of the government and the all-powerful CPC.

“India has repeatedly ignored China's call for pulling its border-crossing troops from Doklam area back to its own territory. However, turning a deaf ear to China will but worsen the month-long standoff and put itself further into embarrassment,” the commentary said.

It added that India had “lied” to the world by saying it dispatched troops to Donglang to help its ally Bhutan, whereas “apparently” Thimphu had extended no invitation to New Delhi to intervene.

“New Delhi claimed encroachment of its own territory by China before saying it sent troops to ’protect’ its ‘ally’ Bhutan, a sovereign state which has apparently so far made no such an invitation for the sake of that boundary area,” it said.

Bhutan and China don’t have diplomatic ties but have held 24 rounds of talks to resolve a boundary dispute.

The commentary, however, described foreign secretary S Jaishankar’s remarks during a recent speech in Singapore as a “positive” sign.

“As an old Chinese saying goes, peace is most precious. It has been noticed that Indian Foreign Secretary Subrahmanyam Jaishankar recently has made positive remarks in Singapore, saying that ‘India and China should not let differences become disputes’,” it said.

“What China would like to see more are corresponding actions taken by India.

“China has a will to solve the problem peacefully by diplomatic means, and China also cherishes the peace and serenity in the border areas, but the precondition is that the trespassers of India must withdraw unconditionally.”

This article was first published in Hindustan Times and has been republished here with permission.


I am so moved to tears by the entreaties the little long long's are giving to SDREs.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Guddu » 18 Jul 2017 08:15

Its almost funny. The Chinese are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Yet they are begging for a face saving compromise while trying to bully us at the same time. Looks like its been a while, that someone has called their bluff, and they dont know what to do. the word impotent rage comes to mind :mrgreen:

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby DavidD » 18 Jul 2017 09:52

shiv wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:Another aspect of these exaggerated reports on msm of to get increased funding

Anything I say in this regard is liable to be taken as "wishful thinking" - but I have noticed - just in the last 4-5 years a massive increase in Chinese propaganda about how they are suddenly up there with the US - whereas only 6-8 years ago - right here on this forum we only used to see photoshopped propaganda photos.

Assume that there really was some deep, secret research happening in China, and that to my mind leads to two conclusions
1. That secret research seems to have skipped a lot of developmental steps from medium tech to cutting edge tech in every sphere which sounds very suspicious to me.
2. There is obviously a media blitz now - where all that research that was kept secret till 5 years ago is not being announced every day as a big success in every tech field

If some acquaintance of mine boasted in this manner I would rapidly stop believing him. But doing that about China is difficult because Indians warn me that I am stupid and I am "ignoring China" and I am therefore somehow indulging in anti-national behaviour by making people less anxious about Chinese developments compared with Indian incompetence.

My attitude is that I must be insane and that there is a place for insane people on this earth.


It's called money. It takes money to do research, and China not only has a lot more money now, the country has also put a strong emphasis on R&D with research budget rising even faster than GDP. In 1996 research made up 0.57% of a GDP of $860 billion, in 2016 it's over 2% of a GDP of ~$11 trillion. That comes out to ~45 fold increase in research spending.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/GB. ... ions=CN-IN

There's still plenty of work to do, of course. The overall quality of the papers published is still low, there are still loopholes in the system that allows cheaters to seep through (Nature recently retracted 100+ Chinese papers due to faked peer review process), and 2% of GDP while high for a developing country is still nowhere near world leaders like Japan or SK who spend ~4% of GDP on research.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Philip » 18 Jul 2017 12:26

http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/chinas ... s-in-india
China's first overseas naval base makes waves in India
Chinese soldiers participate in a flag-raising ceremony at the People's Liberation Army navy base in Hong Kong. According to reports, last Tuesday, ships carrying troops that will man the facility in Djibouti left the southern Chinese port of Zhanjia

PUBLISHEDJUL 17, 2017,

The facility in Djibouti seen as a first step towards growing military presence in the Indian Ocean
Goh Sui Noi China Bureau Chief In Beijing
The Chinese may prefer to call their new naval base in Djibouti in the Horn of Africa, on the north-western edge of the Indian Ocean, a support facility. But this does not change the fact that China has set up its first overseas military base, a significant development.

"It is the first major step of the Chinese military to improve its power projection capability," said Associate Professor Li Mingjiang of the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies at the Nanyang Technological University.

It is also possibly the first of more to come as the rising power's interests grow worldwide and it develops its blue water navy - one that can operate globally - to protect those interests. Analysts have said that for now, China's focus is still closer to home - the Asia-Pacific, particularly the East and South China seas and the western Pacific.

But its efforts to strengthen its presence in the Indian Ocean, through whose sea lanes much of its trade and energy supplies flow, will bring it up against the major power in the region, India.

China began building the logistics base in Djibouti last year and, last Tuesday, ships carrying troops that will man the facility left the southern Chinese port of Zhanjiang.

It would "ensure China's performance of missions, such as escorting, peacekeeping and humanitarian aid in Africa and west Asia", reported state news agency Xinhua last Tuesday. "The base will also be conducive to overseas tasks, including military cooperation, joint exercises, evacuating and protecting overseas Chinese and emergency rescue, as well as jointly maintaining security of international strategic seaways," it added.

This development has come after China started deploying naval ships to waters off Somalia in the Gulf of Aden in 2008, to run escort missions for merchant ships in the pirate-infested waters there.

China also has 2,500 soldiers and police officers taking part in United Nations peacekeeping missions in various parts of Africa, including South Sudan, Liberia and Mali.

There are also about one million Chinese nationals living and working in Africa. The base would allow for quick evacuation of these Chinese nationals if needed, some analysts have said.

China's is not the first foreign military base on Djibouti soil. Because of its strategic position close to the Bab el-Mandeb Strait, a gateway to the Suez Canal that links the Indian Ocean to the Mediterranean Sea, other countries including the United States, France and Japan also have bases there.

However, while the US will be watchful of Chinese activities in the region, the base is not a major concern for the Americans yet, noted Prof Li. This is because the base is mainly for repairs and supply, and its power projection function is limited at the moment.

Instead, the country that would be most concerned would be India as the base is "a clear signal that China's naval presence in the Indian Ocean will dramatically increase in the years to come", he said.

And indeed, The Times of India in a report last Tuesday said the base "represents the 'first pearl of a necklace' unfolding along the sea route that connects China to the Middle East".

"It has fuelled worries in India that it's part of China's strategy to encircle the Indian subcontinent ('the string of pearls') with the help of military alliances and assets in Bangladesh, Myanmar and Sri Lanka," it added.

Already, relations between the two regional powers are fraught, with simmering border disputes that flare up from time to time, including a current row involving a road that China is building on disputed territory.

Also, India, the US and Japan conducted their largest naval exercise ever last week in the Indian Ocean, under the Malabar series that began in 1992. It had the Chinese worried, with the China Daily noting in an editorial that "China should feel 'security concerns'".

Certainly, China's increasing presence in the Indian Ocean has heightened tensions in its relations with India. It has not helped that China's Belt and Road Initiative to revive the ancient land and sea trade routes that link China to Africa and Europe involves deepening economic ties between China and smaller countries in India's neighbourhood.

However, analysts like Dr Nilanthi Samaranayake of the US-based think-tank CNA said India has to come to terms with China's entry into the Indian Ocean.

One approach India could take, said Prof Li, would be to include China in the institutions of the Indian Ocean region, including the Indian Ocean Naval Symposium, of which China is an observer.


That piece of advice simply put,stinks of "appeasement" and acknowledgement of China as Asia's top dog to whom all nations must approach on bended knees. India should start building its own base facilities/logistic agreements for the IN/IAF/IA with friendly nation in the Indo-China Sea and IOR littorals and island entities.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Rakesh » 25 Jul 2017 04:08

Nathu La and Cho La clashes Of 1967: How the Indian Army dealt with Chinese trouble
https://swarajyamag.com/defence/nathu-l ... se-trouble

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Rakesh » 25 Jul 2017 04:22

Doklam: Keeping the Powder Dry!
http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news ... owder-dry/

By Lt Gen JS Bajwa

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Rakesh » 25 Jul 2017 04:22

Chinese Doklam standoff very different from previous border disputes
http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news ... -disputes/

By Brig Arun Bajpai

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Kanson » 25 Jul 2017 11:45

From Managing Chinese threat[https://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?p=2189944#p2189944]
Ofcourse with needed disclaimers.
Kanson wrote:Here are the reasons for China for doing what it is doing currently:

Indian is managing a PoK attack & retake of strategic areas or total PoK, that could stop CPEC in its tracks, checkmate Chinese influence around IR and also could stop OBOR totally.

All these heightened low warfare which is termed as routine along LoC and other such actions or recent Sushma's statement in support of PoK resident for medical treatment are outward manifestation of the under current that could bring tectonic shift in Geopolitics & power projection.

There might have been talks on this(at NSA level or higher) with leading powers and they could be willing participate in such elaborate plan. There is a definite alligning of interest here among powers that is against China and OBOR.

Sensing this, that India could cut China's access to PoK, it is trying to offset that by showing its clout of what it can do to India's 'Chicken neck'.

At present, we could simply take it that as warning. India already gamed the eventual possibilities. As EAM said, we are prepared.


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