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Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 19 Aug 2017 16:19

DavidD wrote:
Besides, has India even been in a real war, like ever? I'm afraid a few minor skirmishes with your neighbors have given you a false sense of how a real war is like.

It's like this.

Too much noise is made about the Chinese winning wars without fighting.. No one actually looks at India - and perhaps that's a good thing. India, after 1947 (and excluding UN engagements) has generally gone to war when some other nation has attacked India, or when some nation has asked for help. I will post a list shortly, but India has very rarely taken the initiative to attack and start a conflict on a largish scale. Examples of that are the Indian action to expel the Potuguese from Goa (1961) and the 1948 action to take Hyderabad from the Nizam.

India does not go to war unless war is thrust upon us. But Indian troops have been in combat continuously. The generation of air force pilots who faced enemy fire in 71 taught the generation who once again faced enemy fire in 1999. And that generation is not yet retired.

So if conflict comes - these men and women will not get cowed down. The question about "real war" in an interesting one. My generation and a generation older than me have seen "real war" which involved the entire nation including nationwide black outs and air raids and blood donation camps in 1965 and 1971. Not sure how many Chinese can say that. The reason why India does not go to war even after severe provocations from Pakistan is because the armed forces and the nation know about real war and we weigh the options and know that a stalemate is not good enough. However if someone makes war - then we have no other go. We can make it a stalemate or defeat for them. That is why people are so sanguine about Chinese bluster. I don't think the people threatening war from China know about war either - including the morons who said they would put paratroops in Delhi. Yeah. Sure. Putting them there is easy. Winning a war is different.

I think China knows this too - and if the Chinese don't know it means that all this talk about China winning war without fighting is a load of crock.

India has watched China getting stronger and stronger and threatening the small Island nations to its east. Maybe the Chinese have historic reasons to be suspicious of those countries. But messing with India can only go so far and no further. Sooner or later China will be made to feel pain. Will India feel pain? Of course. That is war. You don't have wars without much pain. But India will do everything in its power to unseat China from its self proclaimed high pedestal. Ironically India is in the same position that China put Pakistan in. Pakistan does not have to win. Merely denying India victory is enough to keep India from appearing like top dog. The same holds true for India. In fact China challenging India may mean that the days of using Pakistan are coming to an end. The Chinese are not stupid is what I like to think - but I think they are only trying to save face holding on to Pakistan. Pakistan is India gone bad. That is the worst kind of country to call a friend. But I digress

List of wars from 1947 if anyone is interested. You will have to take the trouble to enlarge- it is too long for normal font

  • In 1947-48 India fought Pakistani forces who occupied Jammu and Kashmir. The war was ended prematurely by Nehru going to the UN
  • 1962 India fought a reluctant war when Mao decided to "punish" India. It was a half-fought war.
  • 1965 was a big 2 front war with Pakistan that ended inconclusively ( I was old enough to follow this war form start to finish). Started by a Pakistani attack
  • 1967 was a skirmish with China in Nathu La. Chinese started shooting. India ended it
  • 1971 - a two front war - a major war when Bangladesh was liberated. India did not start teh war, but finished it
  • 1984; Not a war. India occupied Siachen and "opened a new front" that gave control of the Karakoram pass between China and Pakistan occupied Indian territory
  • 1988: India-Sri Lanka agreement leading to Indian troops in Sri Lanka. Lot's of fighting many casualties.
  • 1988: India rescued the Maldives from a coup. Navy, Air Force and spl forces action
  • 1999: Kargil war. Mainly army and air force action. Navy role mainly in sea lane domination
  • 1989 to 2017: Army action against Pakistani terrorists entering India.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby nam » 19 Aug 2017 19:34

DavidD wrote:Besides, has India even been in a real war, like ever?


Interesting question. Some history lesson.
The Japanese ravaged through China in WW2. Captured Burma. But could not entry India. It was the Indian forces which held off the Japanese in East India. The Japanese still remember the "Battle of Tennis Court" for the number of causalities they got. Google about it.

It was the Indian forces which captured Burma from the Japanese. It was Indian forces who were supporting the Chinese fight against Japanese.

Indians were the largest volunteer army in WW2. Basically we wanted to fight, everyone else was forced to! :rotfl:

In 71, India fought a 2 front war. The entire strength of Pakistan Army, trained and equipped by the Americans could not alter the Western border. If anyone has a doubt if India can fight a two front war, we answered that in 71.

Since 80's we have been engaged in a attrition war Pakistan along the 750-1000km border. i.e. at ceasefire in 2003 it was 18 years! Non-stop attrition war along with COIN in East. I am yet to hear about Indian Army complaining of war fatigue.

Men from South India who live in 35 degree heat and never seen snow in their life, volunteer to serve in Siachien at 22000 feet. Men from North East India have died fighting in Kashmir. Tibetans have died fighting for India in Bangladesh. So we will not shortage of men to fight.

The Chinese have been supplying funds, nukes and missiles to Pakis to keep us engaged. Pakis has used this cover to kill Indian civilians like Mumbai attacks.

So what you have is lot of pi***ed off Indians, waiting for a chance to get even with the master of the rent boy in the west. So if the Chinese intend to attack, they better be ready for hard fight.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Deans » 19 Aug 2017 20:05

To add to what previous posters have said about India's wars:

One strength we have is that we are not a conscript or short service army. The learnings from high altitude & jungle warfare, or COIN, are passed on to new recruits by not just their platoon JCO, but others in their section and platoon. Our soldiers come from regiments which are over a 100 (if not 200) years old and regimental traditions and learning are also institutionalised, particularly when our jawans come from villages with 3 generations of servicemen. Chinese regiments are numbered and have no combat history - since they were reformed from units that got decimated (actually a lot worse than decimated) in WW2, Korea and Vietnam. Their village elders will only remember getting the crap kicked out of them.

And Chinese lurkers might like to consider why China's closest fliends are North Korea and Pakistan, apart from tin pot dictators, who have been bribed to sign away their country's resources under OBOR etc.
Last edited by Deans on 19 Aug 2017 22:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Marten » 19 Aug 2017 20:07

Imagine the complete lack of awareness of the Chinese. They're truly living in la la land.

David will probably feel safe in the US, and will hopefully not be conscripted.
If he does, I pray he's not the only child of his parents.
If he is, I hope and pray he's assigned a logistics role far away from the front so his lineage lives on and passes on the learnings of his boastful generation that ran their mouths more than their guns.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Rakesh » 20 Aug 2017 03:04

CAUGHT ON CAMERA: Indian & Chinese Troops Brawl At 14,000 Feet
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/08 ... -feet.html

After decades of xerox-copying, the Chinese have only managed to master throwing stones.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Snehashis » 20 Aug 2017 04:36

Rakesh wrote:
After decades of xerox-copying, the Chinese have only managed to master throwing stones.


Rakesh, they are only photocopying the Kashmiris.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby UlanBatori » 20 Aug 2017 06:00

Did anyone else notice the part of the announcement which said the Chinese actually came ashore there because they got LOST in bad weather? Weather did not look bad at the time, but may have been overnight. Clueless ppl.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shaun » 20 Aug 2017 09:54

how is that idiot in the name of DavidD even got qualified for BRF ???!!!! ...strange

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 20 Aug 2017 18:08

Sorry folks - look again. Here is the definitive analysis. Both stoned and kicked were Cheeni bilathels
Yenjaay maadi..

https://youtu.be/LjGmly7XMCk
[/quote]

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby sudarshan » 20 Aug 2017 18:41

shaun wrote:how is that idiot in the name of DavidD even got qualified for BRF ???!!!! ...strange


It's okay to have idiots on BRF. Non-entities like me get to shine in comparison. And there's no entrance exam to qualify. Just kidding :).

But it's good to have dissenting viewpoints. The Chinese posters especially come over here with big attitudes, and expect the yindooze to be overawed and roll over. Instead they get *contrary opinions* :eek: from the yindooze, something they are simply not accustomed to in China. "You mean people can think *differently* from the way we do???" It's an educational experience for them, having their delusions of superpowerdom deflated. So they respond derisively with "you yindooze think you are a superpower? Hah! Go **** on the streets some more, why don't you!" That way, it's an educational experience for us yindooze too.

Have a look at some of the things these Chinese posters have said in the past. They have unwittingly gone and revealed many of China's weaknesses, which they have been accustomed to viewing as great strengths. The resulting LOL responses from the yindoo side must have been so baffling for them. Maza aa jata hai.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby UlanBatori » 20 Aug 2017 19:03

But you have to hand it to their Foleign Pubric Lerations Division, who came up with that Grobal Climes video. SUCH suavity, such sophistication!!! Plus it got free worldwide publicity for the India2day animated cartoon. BRILLIANT! :rotfl:

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby sudarshan » 20 Aug 2017 19:23

^^^ That video was a MAJOR self-goal for the Chinese. Finally loud-mouthed Chinese are getting to see what the world really thinks of them - spoiled brats, that's what. I honestly can't imagine another nation as delusional, and as short-sightedly complacent as China is today. And it reflects perfectly in that video. They're so used to that self-image of being hot-shot fearless judo and karate masters, they don't realize that the rest of the world is simply tolerating their attitude out of politeness.

With that video, they probably expected awe and embarrassment, or maybe frothing anger, as responses from India. Instead they got pitying laughter. Amazing.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby UlanBatori » 20 Aug 2017 19:35

Indian response so far has been classic Vedantic. I hope when the time comes, the leadership will heed the advice that Arjuna received, and do their jobs without hesitation. I am tired of reading SunTzu cra*.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 20 Aug 2017 20:16

sudarshan wrote:^^^ That video was a MAJOR self-goal for the Chinese. Finally loud-mouthed Chinese are getting to see what the world really thinks of them - spoiled brats, that's what. I honestly can't imagine another nation as delusional, and as short-sightedly complacent as China is today. And it reflects perfectly in that video. They're so used to that self-image of being hot-shot fearless judo and karate masters, they don't realize that the rest of the world is simply tolerating their attitude out of politeness.

With that video, they probably expected awe and embarrassment, or maybe frothing anger, as responses from India. Instead they got pitying laughter. Amazing.

Did you see this response? I liked it..
https://twitter.com/htTweets/status/898781011978240000

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby arshyam » 20 Aug 2017 21:41

shiv wrote:
sudarshan wrote:^^^ That video was a MAJOR self-goal for the Chinese. Finally loud-mouthed Chinese are getting to see what the world really thinks of them - spoiled brats, that's what. I honestly can't imagine another nation as delusional, and as short-sightedly complacent as China is today. And it reflects perfectly in that video. They're so used to that self-image of being hot-shot fearless judo and karate masters, they don't realize that the rest of the world is simply tolerating their attitude out of politeness.

With that video, they probably expected awe and embarrassment, or maybe frothing anger, as responses from India. Instead they got pitying laughter. Amazing.

Did you see this response? I liked it..
https://twitter.com/htTweets/status/898781011978240000

The last line was the kicker :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Atmavik » 20 Aug 2017 22:36

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8v9Y3PjmGE


The Listening Post - China's propaganda machine in overdrive by Al Jazeera( the pot calling the kettle Yellow)

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Deans » 20 Aug 2017 22:38

sudarshan wrote:^^^ That video was a MAJOR self-goal for the Chinese. Finally loud-mouthed Chinese are getting to see what the world really thinks of them - spoiled brats, that's what. I honestly can't imagine another nation as delusional, and as short-sightedly complacent as China is today. And it reflects perfectly in that video. They're so used to that self-image of being hot-shot fearless judo and karate masters, they don't realize that the rest of the world is simply tolerating their attitude out of politeness.

With that video, they probably expected awe and embarrassment, or maybe frothing anger, as responses from India. Instead they got pitying laughter. Amazing.


I think Japan had a very similar kind of delusion about the superiority of the Yamato race in warfare, before and during WW2. They were still planning for `final victory' over the allies in late 1944.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Khalsa » 21 Aug 2017 01:06

Guys
share and bring this to the fore.

https://twitter.com/htTweets/status/898781011978240000

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Suresh S » 21 Aug 2017 01:25

Oh man totally awesome. What a scene, my foooooot

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Prem » 21 Aug 2017 02:30

To deal with Chinese or Jihadi stone Pelters in close quarters , Chakri @.40 can do wonder for their head and face.
IA demonstration of Gatka,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h577-VjReJA

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 21 Aug 2017 08:11

Why Indians shouldn't crap in their pants thinking of China: Doklam: A bitter pill for China http://www.dailypioneer.com/columnists/ ... china.html via @TheDailyPioneer

..from YusufDFI

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Singha » 21 Aug 2017 09:40

the chinese have completely lost their ancient dharmic moorings.

relentless pursuit of homogenization, naked power, high level control freaky system, personality cults all these evils exist in many nations but not on such a continental scale as cheen.

with all their gods dead, money is the only god left to worship.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby DavidD » 21 Aug 2017 10:19

shiv wrote:
DavidD wrote:
Besides, has India even been in a real war, like ever? I'm afraid a few minor skirmishes with your neighbors have given you a false sense of how a real war is like.

It's like this.

Too much noise is made about the Chinese winning wars without fighting.. No one actually looks at India - and perhaps that's a good thing. India, after 1947 (and excluding UN engagements) has generally gone to war when some other nation has attacked India, or when some nation has asked for help. I will post a list shortly, but India has very rarely taken the initiative to attack and start a conflict on a largish scale. Examples of that are the Indian action to expel the Potuguese from Goa (1961) and the 1948 action to take Hyderabad from the Nizam.

India does not go to war unless war is thrust upon us. But Indian troops have been in combat continuously. The generation of air force pilots who faced enemy fire in 71 taught the generation who once again faced enemy fire in 1999. And that generation is not yet retired.

So if conflict comes - these men and women will not get cowed down. The question about "real war" in an interesting one. My generation and a generation older than me have seen "real war" which involved the entire nation including nationwide black outs and air raids and blood donation camps in 1965 and 1971. Not sure how many Chinese can say that. The reason why India does not go to war even after severe provocations from Pakistan is because the armed forces and the nation know about real war and we weigh the options and know that a stalemate is not good enough. However if someone makes war - then we have no other go. We can make it a stalemate or defeat for them. That is why people are so sanguine about Chinese bluster. I don't think the people threatening war from China know about war either - including the morons who said they would put paratroops in Delhi. Yeah. Sure. Putting them there is easy. Winning a war is different.

I think China knows this too - and if the Chinese don't know it means that all this talk about China winning war without fighting is a load of crock.

India has watched China getting stronger and stronger and threatening the small Island nations to its east. Maybe the Chinese have historic reasons to be suspicious of those countries. But messing with India can only go so far and no further. Sooner or later China will be made to feel pain. Will India feel pain? Of course. That is war. You don't have wars without much pain. But India will do everything in its power to unseat China from its self proclaimed high pedestal. Ironically India is in the same position that China put Pakistan in. Pakistan does not have to win. Merely denying India victory is enough to keep India from appearing like top dog. The same holds true for India. In fact China challenging India may mean that the days of using Pakistan are coming to an end. The Chinese are not stupid is what I like to think - but I think they are only trying to save face holding on to Pakistan. Pakistan is India gone bad. That is the worst kind of country to call a friend. But I digress

List of wars from 1947 if anyone is interested. You will have to take the trouble to enlarge- it is too long for normal font

  • In 1947-48 India fought Pakistani forces who occupied Jammu and Kashmir. The war was ended prematurely by Nehru going to the UN
  • 1962 India fought a reluctant war when Mao decided to "punish" India. It was a half-fought war.
  • 1965 was a big 2 front war with Pakistan that ended inconclusively ( I was old enough to follow this war form start to finish). Started by a Pakistani attack
  • 1967 was a skirmish with China in Nathu La. Chinese started shooting. India ended it
  • 1971 - a two front war - a major war when Bangladesh was liberated. India did not start teh war, but finished it
  • 1984; Not a war. India occupied Siachen and "opened a new front" that gave control of the Karakoram pass between China and Pakistan occupied Indian territory
  • 1988: India-Sri Lanka agreement leading to Indian troops in Sri Lanka. Lot's of fighting many casualties.
  • 1988: India rescued the Maldives from a coup. Navy, Air Force and spl forces action
  • 1999: Kargil war. Mainly army and air force action. Navy role mainly in sea lane domination
  • 1989 to 2017: Army action against Pakistani terrorists entering India.


The wars on that list is as small as the font you used. You can easily tell just by the way they're listed--all except one had only 1 year attached to it. Perhaps the whole nation prepared for war, but the whole nation did not engage in it. Even in the lone "long" one in '47-'48 only a couple thousand died fighting in it. Those aren't real wars, they're just some short border conflicts.

Given that those are the type of war India has had experience with, it's no wonder that you think that's what war is. This is reflected by the Indian military preparations as well--a lot of focus on obtaining quality equipment, not a lot of focus on producing them. In a real war where every sector of society is engaged in and stretched to the limits, the equipment you start the war with will only last you a fraction of the duration of war. What's important isn't what you have, it's what you can produce.

How long do you think the few hundred MKIs, etc. will last in a war say to take Tibet? How long will a couple thousand T-90s last? Most will be gone within a year, and I'm being generous with the timeline. How will you go about replacing them? Can you count on the Russians, French, etc. to keep up the supplies? Can they keep up even if they wanted to?

Now I see you and many others seem to think that I expect the Indians to cower in fear. I don't. There's a reason why land wars in East Asia are always so brutal, almost everyone fights to the last inch until all hope is lost. I expect the Indians to fight bravely and capably, but the result won't be decided by which country is more courageous or more tactically brilliant, it'll be decided by who has the greatest comprehensive national strength and it'll be decided by that alone. That's how real wars are fought and won.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 21 Aug 2017 10:31

DavidD wrote:How long do you think the few hundred MKIs, etc. will last in a war say to take Tibet? How long will a couple thousand T-90s last? Most will be gone within a year, and I'm being generous with the timeline. How will you go about replacing them? Can you count on the Russians, French, etc. to keep up the supplies? Can they keep up even if they wanted to?


This argument is pure rhetoric. I have not insured my hands for 1 million dollars because I am not expecting to lose them anytime soon. But I have medical insurance for reasonable exigencies.

No one is going to impose that kind of war on us and get away. Remember that India's argument is exactly the same as what Chairman Mao made. Nuclear weapons are for just that sort of situation. Will we use nuclear weapons? Well I need to ask - is India going to get itself into a war where our whole air force is lost and whole navy is sunk? Yes maybe. But who is going to impose such war on us? The US? China? No one else is capable of imposing such a war on us. The US is not about to do that even for Pakistan. Are the Chinese going to do that for all your Chinese bluster about "We make everything and can sustain a long war"? Chinese ability to make things is dependent on peace. It is in Chinese hands to choose peace and prosperity or war and disaster. So quit the bluster. And stop lecturing about "real war". Pakistanis actually fighting a real war with India far far better than the Chinese have done. Just because you don't certify it means nothing. China has not even done that

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby DavidD » 21 Aug 2017 11:10

I replied to chola's post to start this conversation in order to illustrate why a conventional attack won't favor India any more than a nuclear one. I'm glad you agree that such war is disaster and we should all choose peace and prosperity.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby hnair » 21 Aug 2017 11:50

DavidD is making no sense - US has a military that is magnitudes more capable than chinese ever were. And with serious intent and will to hurt not so capable opponents around the world. The US are visibly unable to eradicate armored vehicles from the hands of ISIS or even taliban, who has neither an air force, nor any industry to resupply. Yet he wants us to believe that china is going to wipe out thousands of tanks of India, who has actually got a formidable air force. All this without any losses to china :lol:

Chinese military cannot produce a handful of pivotal (including engines of frontline fighters) spares and is still dependent on a long string of European and Russian suppliers. And these are usually second string stuff, thanks to a bad reputation of copying. India, on the other hand, has a much more vast reservoir of weapons suppliers, right from the US, which has not hesitated to share really good stuff to the Russsians.

We heard similar refrain from poster Liu, where he made this absurd claim that "1000s of drones will suddenly attack LCA", while still wanting us to believe we wont ask questions on stability of chinese datalinks or reliability of the drones etc. Or that absurd claim that china can give surplus heavy weapons to Indian terrorists, who will suddenly develop a heavy logistics chain to maintain the same, since chinese gear are generally maintenance heavy

This constant "we will retain thousands of shiny military gear in a war, while you will lose all" is childish and is a chinese form of trolling in these forums.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby ashish raval » 21 Aug 2017 12:13

The wars on that list is as small as the font you used. You can easily tell just by the way they're listed--all except one had only 1 year attached to it. Perhaps the whole nation prepared for war, but the whole nation did not engage in it. Even in the lone "long" one in '47-'48 only a couple thousand died fighting in it. Those aren't real wars, they're just some short border conflicts.


Let's put it other way.

List the wars in last 100 years (of the scale that you are talking about) that hans have actually waged and won. Tell me which area you have captured by this war which was not China at some point in history?

We can take discussion from there.

With India China two front war
A) Access to Indian ocean is permanently gone for china as Gwadar will br destroyed, Karachi port will be destroyed and even if rent boy is not gone this places will take another 2 decades to be built for dragon..notwithstsnding daily BLA, Uighurs and Tibetan onslaught as India will support every possible anti China and anti puke insurgents in the region.

B) trade surplus of $50 billion gone and will never return for next 5 decades or perhaps never.

C) permanent harassment in Indian ocean region.

D) Countless parents for whom their only sons and daughters perished.

There are hundreds other reasons but I choose not to highlight them because of lack of time.
Last edited by ashish raval on 21 Aug 2017 20:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby manjgu » 21 Aug 2017 12:18

good point ashishraval... about large scale war that china has waged and won. adding to C and D.. E) chinese face lost for ever.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby TKiran » 21 Aug 2017 12:19

DavidD, we are going to cut China to its size, we are going to liberate Tibet and Xinjiang, you are still thinking that India will confine itself to Indian borders like we always did, you have not learnt a lesson, learn how we liberated Bangladesh, in 16 days, you will be wise. Yes China would still be surviving with shrunk mass, but that's the limit of Han. Everything non Han will be liberated, you don't know the power of people, you never experienced democracy.

It will not take more than a week to occupy Lhasa and dislodge PLA, you are thinking of 1 year, that's laughable. 1,00, 000 Tibetans from India Will produce those many Tibetans in Lhasa in 1year. Lhasa is just 200 km from Tawang and 300 km from Doklam. It's thousands of km from Han China. It's China that needs to lob nuclear weapons at Lhasa if at all Han are serious to hold on to Tibet, still they will not be able to hold on to Lhasa. That's the reason why Han are sh***ing in their pants now, India can cut them to size, that's the fear, they don't have any body who can save them, if India marched to Lhasa.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby yensoy » 21 Aug 2017 12:57

Two nuclear powers aren't going to proceed on a year-long war of attrition which could result in the annihilation of one side's conventional defenses. This is totally insane. Why are we even feeding the troll?


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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby hnair » 21 Aug 2017 13:35



From Gobar Times

The report did not mention the location of the exercises, only saying the drills "lay the ground for plateau warfare."

The Lianhe Zaobao newspaper on Friday quoted analysts as saying such Chinese PLA military exercises are meant to "strike awe in India," as the two sides have been engaged in a standoff in Doklam for more than two months, and the Qinghai-Tibet Plateau, which is closest to India, is where the Western Theater Command is most prominent.


:lol: too scared to mention the location, but want us to be awed......

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby pankajs » 21 Aug 2017 13:35

^^
Actually that is their main strategy i.e "To strike shock and awe". It is inline with su-su strategy of winning without fighting. And credit were it is due, It has worked up till now.

Only at Dokalam plateau it does not seem to work. The Chinese can of course make it a fight but was with large adversaries war is uncertain in the best of circumstance. With India's deployment around the Chumbi valley it is a very risky proposition for them. A stalemate or worse a loss will forever puncher the lizard that has puffed up to look like a dlagon.

So now China has to decide between a small loss of face with the current stalemate and eventual silent withdrawal on both sides or a bigger loss of face in case it decides to fights but is held back by India. BTW, I am not even considering India winning but just holding the Chinese back which is the most likely scenario.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Philip » 21 Aug 2017 14:17

The Chinese must realise that we are indeed shocked at its arrogant and uncouth behaviour,unbecoming of a nation that has gargantuan global
aspirations,making enemies instead of friends,especially with peaceful India,but that we are not in awe of its camp fancy-pants army! Pig-sticking is a famous sport here in India,practised for centuries. We've enjoyed it in recent times on the Indo-Pak LOC in Kashmir.Pig-sticking Chinamen in the Himalayas would be great fun for the IA who are sharpening their bayonets and khukris.Come on XI Gins Pig!

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby chola » 21 Aug 2017 14:20

pankajs wrote:^^
Actually that is their main strategy i.e "To strike shock and awe". It is inline with su-su strategy of winning without fighting. And credit were it is due, It has worked up till now.

Only at Dokalam plateau it does not seem to work. The Chinese can of course make it a fight but was with large adversaries war is uncertain in the best of circumstance. With India's deployment around the Chumbi valley it is a very risky proposition for them. A stalemate or worse a loss will forever puncher the lizard that has puffed up to look like a dlagon.

So now China has to decide between a small loss of face with the current stalemate and eventual silent withdrawal on both sides or a bigger loss of face in case it decides to fights but is held back by India. BTW, I am not even considering India winning but just holding the Chinese back which is the most likely scenario.



The problem with "loss of face" as a winning point in regards to Cheen is that the PRC doesn't have a lot of "face" to start off with.

It is universally reviled as a bully. It is universally reviled as an economic cheat. It is universally reviled as an IP stealing thief. All this for years and decades before Doka La. What more "face" do they have to lose?

Their military loses far more face year after year of impotently clamoring for Taiwan than the Doka La standoff.

In business, "face" for East Asian firms in Japan, Korea or Taiwan works in the same way as "pride" in Western firms. Saving face means you won't sully your reputation by begging for freebies from another MNC. In fact, we've seen chini MNCs begging for tech transfers from much smaller Western SMEs by pleading poverty and laying the Turd World guilt trip -- "you can't charge us licensing fees that everyone else pays because we're poor and turd world."

No loss of face will knock them off course because you are expecting properly behaving people who can be shamed into behaving properly. They did not get to their position today with any kind of behavior that gives them "face."

What's worse is "face" can't be measured while facts on the ground can be. Any face we win in 2017 will be forgotten in 2018 by developments in OBOR or presense of chini bases in the IOR by 2019.

No, you need to deliberately and violently re-adjust the borders through war so that every generation of Indians and chinis that comes after us can see on a map the arse kicking we delivered in 2017.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby pankajs » 21 Aug 2017 14:42

^^
perhaps you should also read the last bit in my post.

BTW, loss of face is more for internal Chinese mangos and especially the CCP insiders. CCP is a gang and in a gangland the leader cannot be seen as weak else he will get back stabbed in no time.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 21 Aug 2017 14:45

hnair wrote:
The report did not mention the location of the exercises, only saying the drills "lay the ground for plateau warfare."

Er - if they are talking about plateau warfare they are expecting India to attack it seems. because if they do it will be mountain warfare.

That aside does "lay the ground" mean playing dead, or pretend sex on the beach with no partner

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby chola » 21 Aug 2017 14:52

pankajs wrote:^^
perhaps you should also read the last bit in my post.

BTW, loss of face is more for internal Chinese mangos and especially the CCP insiders. CCP is a gang and in a gangland the leader cannot be seen as weak else he will get back stabbed in no time.



Erh, but that does nothing for us. Whoever replaces Xi will still take advantage of what they have on the ground now. Even if the CPC were replaced by chini democrats they would still take advantage of what they have on the ground.

At the very least, we need to use this opportunity to rectify 1962 on the borders. We can't settle for mental constructs like "face" or "reputation" that has no bearing in the real world. We need real territory that their propaganda cannot explain away.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby nam » 21 Aug 2017 15:23



Oh God. Please help the country. We have been stuck in the awe.

The Chinese are going to kill us all... with comedy.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby pankajs » 21 Aug 2017 15:29

chola wrote:
pankajs wrote:^^
perhaps you should also read the last bit in my post.

BTW, loss of face is more for internal Chinese mangos and especially the CCP insiders. CCP is a gang and in a gangland the leader cannot be seen as weak else he will get back stabbed in no time.



Erh, but that does nothing for us. Whoever replaces Xi will still take advantage of what they have on the ground now. Even if the CPC were replaced by chini democrats they would still take advantage of what they have on the ground.

At the very least, we need to use this opportunity to rectify 1962 on the borders. We can't settle for mental constructs like "face" or "reputation" that has no bearing in the real world. We need real territory that their propaganda cannot explain away.

Err .. that is exactly what I said and again referred to that part of my post. It is their choice.
pankajs wrote:<snip>
So now China has to decide between a small loss of face with the current stalemate and eventual silent withdrawal on both sides or a bigger loss of face in case it decides to fights but is held back by India. BTW, I am not even considering India winning but just holding the Chinese back which is the most likely scenario.

/OT
GOI is not looking to rectify anything but just hold on to the current position. Forget our maps and look at OUR claim lines and the extent of our patrolling. A case in point is our understanding of the LAC is different from the Chinese but it is way behind the map lines of Aksi Hind. Also, at Pangong Tso while we claim up to finger 8 we have progressively scaled back our patrols in the face of aggressive Chinese patrol.

/Highly OT for this thread
We can all dream of going up to Gobi desert but no GOI including THIS has shown any intent to go beyond the Indian version of the LAC. Even the raising of the MSC is not meant to wrest control up to the borders as per Indian maps forget about grabbing parts of Tibet. This is the harsh reality but who am I to suggest others not to dream big. That is not my role.


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