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Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

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deejay
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby deejay » 08 Jun 2017 13:49

shiv wrote:Airbus starts building helicopter plant in China
QINGDAO, May 27 (Xinhua) -- Airbus Group's helicopter manufacturing arm began construction of its first assembly line for commercial aircraft in China Saturday.

The plant, located in the city of Qingdao in eastern China's Shandong Province, will be jointly operated by Airbus Helicopters and Qingdao United General Aviation Company.

The plant will be completed in 2018 and is designed to produce 18 H135 helicopters a year, but capacity could be further raised according to demand, company sources said.

The first aircraft is likely to be rolled out in 2019.

Airbus Helicopters CEO Guillaume Faury said the assembly line demonstrated a commitment to cooperation with China's rapidly growing aviation industry.

The H135 is a popular light helicopter in China, mainly used in medical aid, rescue, police surveillance, fire fighting and tourism.


The H135 has a hover ceiling of 12000 feet as per Airbus' own brochure - so this is unlikely to appear soon in the border areas, supplying troops.
http://airbushelicoptersinc.com/product ... ations.asp

Tibet has an average altitude of over 4000 meters. But this is an example of Airbus investment for "make in China". It is up to us to speculate on how this "screwdrivergiri" will help China


Similar deal for Bell 407, assured sale of 100 helicopters.

H135 design has failed in the commercial market everywhere else. Airbus brochure figures! Shiv ji.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby venug » 13 Jun 2017 03:21

China deploys new tank in Tibet, near India border
Chinese news site Guancha reported Monday Beijing is increasing military buildup in Tibet in a show of force designed to deter the Indian military.

Guancha stated the Xinqingtan's technology and firepower is "far more advanced" than the Russia-made T-90S tanks deployed by India.
Light-duty main battle tanks with commensurate firepower are also being tested in Tibet, but the report did not provide details on the tanks, including whether they were the VT-5, a light-duty tank Beijing displayed at the Zhuhai Air Show in Guangdong Province in November.

The Xinqingtan includes a 105-millimeter tank gun, a 35-millimeter grenade launcher and a 12.7-millimeter machine gun.

The guns have already been adjusted to a high angle so they are ready for mountain operations, according to the report.

The tank is relatively light at 35-38 tons. It produces 1,000 horsepower on an 8V150-type engine.

In 2016, Beijing was placing more missiles and fighter jets along the India border, according to Kanwa Asian Defense, a news site specializing in military developments.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby ArjunPandit » 13 Jun 2017 03:55

What Mountain strike corps needs
Few items missing from the list are
1. Harry potter broomsticks and Floo powder for better mobility
2. Phoenix wands & Laser Guns/Sabres for offensive
3. Patronus charm for defense against artillery
4. Possibly iron man suits for multipurpose units

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Gagan » 13 Jun 2017 04:13


I hope those tanks can withstand the T-72 shells, because India has deployed improved T-72 Ajeyas in Ladakh

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby ArjunPandit » 13 Jun 2017 05:02

Gagan wrote:

I hope those tanks can withstand the T-72 shells, because India has deployed improved T-72 Ajeyas in Ladakh

1. I did a quick search on the tank name, no mention of this tank so far by google, apart from this news article
2. Article states that tank has 105MM MIC(Made in china) gun, as compared to T72 that has 125M smoothbore gun
3. At the time of its introduction from arc of the T-72 could withstand any 105 mm munitions at ranges greater than 500 m.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Gagan » 13 Jun 2017 08:53

Its alright,
The chinese haven't fought a war in a while...
They send gay soldiers with well pressed suits to parades.

Probably too busy boot polishing and practising for their parades, if hey don't, there'll be "loss of face"

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 13 Jun 2017 09:19


ArjunPandit
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby ArjunPandit » 13 Jun 2017 10:16

Our T72s should also face similar threat, probably in larger numbers.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Karthik S » 13 Jun 2017 16:19


chandrasekaran
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby chandrasekaran » 13 Jun 2017 16:57

:ROFL

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby chandrasekaran » 13 Jun 2017 16:57

:rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 26 Jun 2017 21:30

Posting a 2011 article for my own reference
http://www.idsa.in/system/files/5_3_ShailenderArya.pdf

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby sivab » 26 Jun 2017 22:05

https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/sta ... 4677604352

Global Times‏Verified account @globaltimesnews

#Indian troops’ provocation in border areas has violated Sino-Indian consensus and endangered peace: Chinese MoD

Image

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Philip » 27 Jun 2017 18:40

The video-clip shown on telly from last night simply terrifies me! Chinese troops invading Indian territory.Fire-breathing dragon troops what?
Er..not so.
The telly clips graphically showed the argie-bargie between Chinko and Indian troops was simply hilarious.Their puny warriors certainly did not come from the Shao-Lin temple.They were squeezed,squashed and smothered by our beefy ...oops! wrong word to use,majestic mountain men,who shrugged them off as if they were fallen twigs.The best part was the constipated looks on the faces of the Chinkos,as they just couldn't break free from the strangelholds of our merry men.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby ArjunPandit » 27 Jun 2017 19:00

^^^no no philip that's the (f)art of war, appear weak when strong

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Karthik S » 27 Jun 2017 19:00

Is there a way we can try to get a naval base and an airstrip in Northern Viet? It's 300 km from hainan islands and 650 km from HK as a counter measure to Cheen's Bhutan highway strategy.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 27 Jun 2017 19:56

Karthik S wrote:Is there a way we can try to get a naval base and an airstrip in Northern Viet? It's 300 km from hainan islands and 650 km from HK as a counter measure to Cheen's Bhutan highway strategy.

China is strong in the Hainan area. They are not so strong in Tibet. We can dominate them. The Bhutan bullying is an anomaly - actually China (which cannot be trusted) settled its borders with Myanmar, Nepal and Bhutan with no fuss but kept the pot boiling with India the mofos. In fact the lines that they rejected with India the accepted with Myanmar

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Cain Marko » 28 Jun 2017 04:11

Karthik S wrote:Is there a way we can try to get a naval base and an airstrip in Northern Viet? It's 300 km from hainan islands and 650 km from HK as a counter measure to Cheen's Bhutan highway strategy.


Time to sell Prithvis to Taiwan or at least offer them.....just to cause some burn...

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby vasu raya » 28 Jun 2017 07:09

If occupied Tibet is in their control, we should do the 'show of hand' in the IOR, the other option being trade repercussions on Chinese goods, nothing Chinese gets processed at the Indian ports until they allow the pilgrimage

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 28 Jun 2017 07:35

The pilgrimage issue should not be mixed with other issues. Kailash Manasarovar is sacred to Buddhists as well and tourists from Japan/Thailand too will use the route via India. The route through China is arduous and requires permissions. It is a high altitude area and evacuation into India is the shortest route to get to low altitude in case of altitude sickness. The Chinese are trying to make Southern Tibet (including Linzhi (Nyingchi province) and Ngari province (- an adjacent province in which Kailash Manasarovar lies) into tourist attractions and will not want to be seen as tourist unfriendly. In fact it is they who are getting their knickers in a knot and kicking up a needless fuss. We need to be cool and not overreact with knee jerk, over-dramatic measures.

The Chinese have even built airfields in Nyingchi and Ngari which are 15 km and 60 km from the Indian border and both above 4000 meters up. The military potential of these is doubtful - and they are being promoted as tourist spots. Let us see how long they do that. Tibet actually needs lots of subsidies from mainland China and tourism is one of the few revenue raising industries. If they want to kill their own tourism - let it be their problem. If we divert attention to some area 3000 km away we will be scoring a self goal

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby kapilrdave » 28 Jun 2017 18:19

Philip wrote:The video-clip shown on telly from last night simply terrifies me! Chinese troops invading Indian territory.Fire-breathing dragon troops what?
Er..not so.
The telly clips graphically showed the argie-bargie between Chinko and Indian troops was simply hilarious.Their puny warriors certainly did not come from the Shao-Lin temple.They were squeezed,squashed and smothered by our beefy ...oops! wrong word to use,majestic mountain men,who shrugged them off as if they were fallen twigs.The best part was the constipated looks on the faces of the Chinkos,as they just couldn't break free from the strangelholds of our merry men.


I need to show that video to the kids at my home to teach how to fight in civil manner :mrgreen: .

That video reveals how far fetched the scare is that has been spread by armchair generals about Indo-china border. The 'analysts' write rims and rims of papers about how a nuclear war between the two great powers can break out anytime soon.

But from that video, it looks like the next escalation point for either army would be to start punching directly on the other's nose, then the next escalation point would be kicking the jewels... and so on.... :rotfl: . We have a looong way to go before we can teach a lesson :(( .

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby yensoy » 28 Jun 2017 21:05

shiv wrote:The Chinese have even built airfields in Nyingchi and Ngari which are 15 km and 60 km from the Indian border and both above 4000 meters up. The military potential of these is doubtful - and they are being promoted as tourist spots. Let us see how long they do that. Tibet actually needs lots of subsidies from mainland China and tourism is one of the few revenue raising industries. If they want to kill their own tourism - let it be their problem. If we divert attention to some area 3000 km away we will be scoring a self goal


Shiv, you are wrong on the intent of the Nyingchi airfield. This is definitely a military airfield cloaked as civilian. It has very much been built for rapid troop and equipment deployment. Tibet is already a far fetched destination for the ordinary Chinese, not many have been there or even intend to go there (compare with the hordes of mainlanders visiting Thailand, even the USA); travel within Tibet is highly restricted even for Chinese and Linzhi is far out of the way (unless the intent is to go such a place).

Sichuan Airlines is operated by the PLA. Look at who primarily flies into LZY.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 28 Jun 2017 22:32

yensoy wrote:Shiv, you are wrong on the intent of the Nyingchi airfield. This is definitely a military airfield cloaked as civilian.

Look at it on a map. It is 15 km from the border - within the reach of Indian artillery. And it is also 3000 meters up in the mountains. It is a bad choice for a military airfield no matter what anyone thinks. If the balloon goes up that airfield will be cratered in the first hours of war. its military utility will be only if we sit with our fingers in our Musharraf while transport planes land with troops. But even if they do they will be pounded. There are no direct roads to the border. They all have to head to the township and then get to the highways to the border

Chinese airfields of relevance to India
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJKc4AwM6KA

Also see this video and check where the roads are related to the airfield
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wUkKcSBtss
Last edited by shiv on 28 Jun 2017 22:44, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Prasad » 28 Jun 2017 22:36

Its right next to a river, in a valley and has no shelter for aircraft to hide.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 28 Jun 2017 22:38

Prasad wrote:Its right next to a river, in a valley and has no shelter for aircraft to hide.

True. Most South Tibet airfields are built on river valleys because that is the only really flat place in mountainous southern Tibet

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby vasu raya » 29 Jun 2017 03:17

Port operations are hit in Mumbai...wonder %wise how much is Chinese?

while agreed that a graded approach is needed, I haven't seen any news outlet shaming the Chinese in blocking the pilgrims who mostly consist of senior citizens visiting Kailash Manasarovar citing Security threat nor is there a mention of human rights violations, try that with Mecca and Medina for a change

Then there is no mention of turning back Chinese visitors to Both Gaya

However back in time they go their usual arguments of historically having ruled these areas won't hold good around Mount Kailash

Always had a question if we had profiled their army deployed along the LAC or in PoK and how many are from single child families vs what we see in the PoK where is there is oversupply of cannon fodder

About the bulldozer, is laying of mines around the posts especially old ones restricted for any reason?

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby yensoy » 29 Jun 2017 08:48

shiv wrote:
yensoy wrote:Shiv, you are wrong on the intent of the Nyingchi airfield. This is definitely a military airfield cloaked as civilian.

Look at it on a map. It is 15 km from the border - within the reach of Indian artillery. And it is also 3000 meters up in the mountains. It is a bad choice for a military airfield no matter what anyone thinks. If the balloon goes up that airfield will be cratered in the first hours of war. its military utility will be only if we sit with our fingers in our Musharraf while transport planes land with troops. But even if they do they will be pounded. There are no direct roads to the border. They all have to head to the township and then get to the highways to the border

Chinese airfields of relevance to India
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJKc4AwM6KA

Also see this video and check where the roads are related to the airfield
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wUkKcSBtss


When was the last time a shell or bullet was fired across the border? The point is not that this is or will be a base for fighters, rather it is part of the PLA supply lines. The local economy (if there is one) can't support the level of air service so this is basically for logistics/personnel support. It's a military economy out there. They aren't even growing grapes & dry fruits like the Xinjiangese.

BTW this is not necessarily directed at us, it's also directed at the Tibetan people.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 29 Jun 2017 09:00

yensoy wrote:
When was the last time a shell or bullet was fired across the border? The point is not that this is or will be a base for fighters, rather it is part of the PLA supply lines. The local economy (if there is one) can't support the level of air service so this is basically for logistics/personnel support. It's a military economy out there. They aren't even growing grapes & dry fruits like the Xinjiangese.

BTW this is not necessarily directed at us, it's also directed at the Tibetan people.

Even tourism is directed at the Tibetan people. Nyingchi has become a sort of "Hill station" for rich Chinese. Ngari (town) is also being promoted that way because it is an insane place with Bangalore like temperatures year round - but sitting 4000 meters up in Tibet. That is also a garrison town.

In fact Nyingchi is a military headquarters. That said any airport can be used for military purposes, but the Nyingchi airfield is a poor apology for military transport because it is not only within range of guns and special forces - the actual supplies coming in and going out can be monitored in real time. Mobilization will require hundreds of flights coming in and those will be noticed well beforehand. That aside - an airfield at 3000 meters in the Himalayas has all the disadvantages of being hot and high in the mountains - so there will be flight and weight restrictions in the afternoons and evenings and in winter.

Lhasa is better protected by distance but worse by geography

The fact that "no shot has been fired" for a period of X years does not actually mean much and on this thread I have seen the same fact being used for diametrically opposite arguments, either as one that says that shots are unlikely to be fired (as you have done) or as a prediction that Indians are fooling themselves by saying that shots will not be fired and that when shots come we will be unprepared.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 29 Jun 2017 09:04

vasu raya wrote:
Always had a question if we had profiled their army deployed along the LAC or in PoK and how many are from single child families vs what we see in the PoK where is there is oversupply of cannon fodder

This is an excellent question and if the Indian Intel agencies have not done it, it is high time they did. It would be valuable military information

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Prasad » 29 Jun 2017 11:02

Also as an aside, this 'nobody goes to tibet but pla and its tough to get there' etc etc isn't really true. There are regular tours to china from all western countries that include trips to tibet via train and flights. Tons of blogs on this which give valuable information to one who is seeking it.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby yensoy » 29 Jun 2017 11:45

You make good points Shiv. The point about "no shot has been fired" is basically that the threshold for artillery is quite high and by the time this is reached, the damage would have already been done by the Chinese ferrying in tons of equipment and personnel using this airport. Unlike a similar situation with Pak where artillery to damage cross border facilities is the daily regimen.

Don't forget that Lhasa was armed in the lead up to 1962 with material supplied to it via Kolkata.

Having said that, there isn't much we can do about it unless hostilities kick in, apart from monitoring and ensuring that we have guns directed at the airport, facilities and roads leading to them.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby rsingh » 29 Jun 2017 16:37

What will be our reaction if Bakis "LEASE" one of their airport to China? It is a real possibility.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 29 Jun 2017 16:46

yensoy wrote:You make good points Shiv. The point about "no shot has been fired" is basically that the threshold for artillery is quite high and by the time this is reached, the damage would have already been done by the Chinese ferrying in tons of equipment and personnel using this airport.

That is an assumption and the assumption should be taken to its logical conclusion and I will try and do that since such assumptions are frequent on BRF but no one takes it further.

Suppose we find that the Chinese are moving in tons and tons of material and thousands of men via this airport (and other airports) to the border. This will set off a reactive Indian mobilization of forces at the border. We too will position thousands more men and prepare air bases and defences as a response to what are obvious Chinese preparations for war. The movement of every one of those Chinese columns would be tracked and responses planned for that. The Chinese would require a few weeks to get forces to a level where they could attack and cause serious damage - and we would have to be ready for a robust response. This would lead to a situation where war could break out at any time. There may be skirmishes. In 1962 and 67 the Chinese used mortar. In 1967 we responded with artillery.

But the minute war breaks out - any Chinese aircraft 15 km from the border landing in Nyingchi would be shot down. What we need to worry about is not the flights into Nyingchi as war preparations go on but the tonnage that is coming into Lhasa from the Golmud-Lhasa railway line. Taking out Nyingchi would be easy but the main bulk will come from the railway line. That railway line and the source at Golmud and the destination in Lhasa will also have to be taken out. There is nothing we can do about that as things stand. If they start mobilizing they will likely not advertise it from an airbase next to the border - but simply start pouring in men and material on the railway line which is what we need to watch. In case of hot war if we don't respond with air power I guarantee that we will be fckued

Of course we have the option of sitting with thumb in musharraf as Nehru did while China prepared for war. But then again the extent of Chinese preparedness was either not known or what was known was not shared and what was shared was ignored in 1962.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby darshhan » 29 Jun 2017 23:39

If I was incharge of chinese military decision making, I would first transport ammunition and missiles, establishing immense caches for years. The next would be various platforms and equipment. I will make sure that bulk of the soldiers are mobilized last lets say 2 months before active combat operations.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 30 Jun 2017 06:21

darshhan wrote:If I was incharge of chinese military decision making, I would first transport ammunition and missiles, establishing immense caches for years. The next would be various platforms and equipment. I will make sure that bulk of the soldiers are mobilized last lets say 2 months before active combat operations.

This is exactly what they have done. But consumables like food and fuel will have to be shipped in and soldiers will need time for acclimatization. A lot of Chinese parents will lose the only son they have as they get old. Should be good for "stability and happiness" in China

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby ArjunPandit » 30 Jun 2017 07:24

Just to add to some dhoti shiver,
in the '62 war the thag la/dhola conflict began around june time only, eventually culminating into the war in Oct.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby sanjaykumar » 30 Jun 2017 07:28

These depots must be underground, Tibet is open to inspection,.

There has to be infrastructure eg railhead to all weather roads then parking areas for dozens of trucks. Possibly with barracks above ground or simply just parking lots with not much visible. However they will have security fences and watch towers. They need to be identified.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 30 Jun 2017 07:39

ArjunPandit wrote:Just to add to some dhoti shiver,
in the '62 war the thag la/dhola conflict began around june time only, eventually culminating into the war in Oct.

Boss they started building the Aksai Chin road in 1952 IIRC. Bandit Nehru reacted in 1962

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby sanjaykumar » 30 Jun 2017 07:56

Historical revisionism is tempting, taking on the Chinese in 1952 might have meant fighting them in Madras rather than Assam.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby darshhan » 30 Jun 2017 08:09

By the way just to give context both Tibet and xinjiang are absolutely huge areas. Tibet is 3/4th(75%) of India.likewise xinjiang is almost 50% of India. Together both of them have a combined area larger than India.

Gives you an idea of the vast distances the chinese logistical system will have to traverse to fight India in a hostile terrain with a even more hostile native population.

In a substantially stretched military confrontation I would say, it will be India's war to lose. And I am talking of today, not when we have 100s of LCAs and 10000 nirbhays and 20 trillion dollar economy etc.
Last edited by darshhan on 30 Jun 2017 08:14, edited 1 time in total.


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