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Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby nam » 23 Apr 2017 18:45

shiv wrote:[Unfortunately there is a misreading of Indian psychology here IMHO. When a China fear is raised a lot of Indians, brought up to see their own nation as weak, defeated and subjugated for 1000 years - simply fold up and give up and say we can never get there. After that every Chinese development leads to fearful self flagellation. This may not be your reaction - but it is exactly that for too many Indians. To Mao's credit he has erased that loser-attitude forever from Chinese minds.

The right way to inspire is not to scare but to reduce fear by showing either what is doable or that fear is unnecessary



I see you point, however my comments were not just about removing Chinese fear. It was about using the "supposed Chinese fear" to build up the country. One of the prime reason for dhoti shivering is there is hardly any true discussion in India about it's security.

The only time MPs would discuss about national security is when a bomb goes off or pakis send it's terrorist to Mumbai. What I want is people & MPs constantly asking GoI why is the aircraft carrier taking 10 years while Chinese are doing in "supposedly" in 2 years. Why is AMCA still not in FSE while the Chinese are "inducting" J20s. So fundamentally it is about forcing Goi to fund/build tech which allows carriers to be built in 3-4 years, jets in shorter time etc. It really does not matter if J20 can fly in Tibet or Chinese carrier can pass through Malaca straits in a conflict.

We would never been talking about building F-16 in India, if IAF was not constantly sulking about 42 squadrons. We all know SU30 is no 1-to-1 replacement for Mig21, but even GoI will have tough time challenging the 42 number.

US does not need 11 carriers for it's defense, but ability to build 11 carriers and deploy them constantly prevents dhoti shivering in US populations.
As an example, there will less dhoti shivering in BRF(or non BRF crowd), if GoI was obsessed with fielding hypersonic ASHM against Chinese.

The objective is about leapfrogging using Chinese as the bogeyman.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 23 Apr 2017 19:48

^^I see your point but it is the literal "carrier for carrier", "sub for sub" thing - (which is an understandable and popular meme) that bugs me.

I believe that too much time has been spent fearing what China will do and next to no time in assessing exactly what they can do. In fact if we go back just 2-3 years there was this huge hue and cry about the Chinese building a carrier killer missile. We had our share of pant browning on BRF and even in the US media - and then some serious discussions and finally the US did not seem to care. China simply dropped that and seemed to have taken up carrier building.

I see that as strange. It only means that the Chinese are themselves not convinced that it is possible to kill a carrier so easily seeing their eagerness to build and advertise building of carriers.

We need to see what they will do with them but I have read only fearful thoughts about "strangulation" of India, string of pearls etc. But while these things are real concerns I don't see things panning out as planned.

The Chinese were supposed to build a canal to bypass Malacca. That has gone nowhere yet. They these is that Sittwe base. Hambantota is struggling. But as I see it we have happily allowed US ships to roam the Indian ocean for decades and if any country can take out every major base and institution in India in a major attack it is the US, not China. 400-500 cruise missiles and a few attacks from the Indian Ocean will make us hurt harder than anyone else can. And the US has been positively unfriendly - to the extent that no one even mentions 1971 as one of the great genocides of history. Imagine if NoKo is silenced and Pakistan bribed to sit quiet. we could be next

But it is China we fear. Why? Our strength must not be against China alone - but against any technology possessed by anyone that can hit us. But for this thread that would be a digression. What China can do is what we need to see and what we have to hit them back rather than carrier for carrier sub for sub "matching". The Chinese are trying to outmatch the US and show the world that they are the biggest. We cannot and must not try and outdo them in a game they have initiated and which they started playing on their terms

We need to play on our terms, but our terms must come based on our threat perception, not Chinese numbers

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: shoud we shiver or die laughing?

Postby BharataTalwar » 23 Apr 2017 21:43

nirav wrote::rotfl:

Chinese finally getting Paki like.. was bound to happen sooner or later :mrgreen:

We should probably arrange a reception party in Delhi for 10 hour paras headed by non other than Shri Yo Kejri..


Its the Paki effect :rotfl: . TSP. Not even once.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 24 Apr 2017 07:37

rohitvats had earlier posted an article by Claude Arpi about Chinese troops near Barahoti in Uttrakhand. There are severaal other media articles about this - some dhoti shivering. But after spending some hours looking at the satellite images. I am absolutely astounded that no one seems to have bothered. That terrain is vicious and apart from one single road there is no Chinese access to that area. That one single road is a tortuous dirt road that is in total more than 150-200 km long (I will give better figures from my other compootar). Not only that. Even Chinese military installations in the area are thin on the ground. That said - the Indian military needs to maintain posts at 5000 meters to keep a watch on the Chinese. These guys probably come once in a few days or weeks and if they see no one they will build something and write something on the ground in Chinese letters.

I will post images and stats from the other machine - am working on a joint video of Aksai Chin + HP/UK areas. The Chinese here appear to me to be present in lower strength than the east - with their logistics lines much much longer

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 24 Apr 2017 07:49

Posting here as it is topical and relevant for mountain warfare. Mortars better in many situations. Mortar too a huge toll of Indian army in 1962
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... -6/ch3.htm
3-2. Rugged terrain and reduced mobility increase the reliance on field artillery fire support. However, the employment and positioning of field artillery systems may be severely impacted by the extreme difficulty of ground mobility in mountainous terrain. Self-propelled artillery is often limited to traveling on the existing road and trail networks and positioning in their immediate vicinity. Towed field artillery is usually more maneuverable; it can be brought into position with the aid of trucks, tractors, and fixed or rotary-winged aircraft. Therefore, gun crews should be proficient in equipment-rigging techniques and air assault procedures, and possess ample sling-load equipment. Field artillery emplaced by helicopter normally requires continued airlift for subsequent displacement and ammunition resupply, and often necessitates substantial engineer support.

3-3. Light field artillery may require forward displacement of gun sections by helicopter to provide forward troops the necessary support. Medium field artillery may give the longer range required, but may be limited by high-terrain crest clearance. Normally, field artillery is employed far enough to the rear to take advantage of increased angles of fall. Flat areas, such as dry riverbeds, villages and towns, and farmland, can usually accommodate firing units, however, these positions present particular problems in the mountains for the following reasons:
<snip>
3-11. To provide accurate and timely delivery of artillery fires in mountainous terrain, commanders must take into account the following:

High angles of elevation and increased time of flight for rounds to impact.
Targets on reverse slopes, which are more difficult to engage than targets on flat ground or rising slopes, requiring more ammunition for the same coverage.
Increased amounts of dead space that cannot be hit by artillery fires.
Intervening crests that require detailed map analysis.
When the five requirements for accurate predicted fire (target location and size, firing unit location, weapons and ammunition information, meteorological information, and computational procedures) are not achievable, registration on numerous checkpoints becomes essential because of the large variance in elevation (see FM 3-09.40 for more detailed information).



MORTARS

3-13. Mortars are essential during mountain operations. Their high angle of fire and high rate of fire is suited to supporting dispersed forces. They can deliver fires on reverse slopes, into dead space, and over intermediate crests, and, like field artillery, rock fragments caused by the impact of mortar rounds may cause additional casualties or damage.

3-14. The 60mm mortar is an ideal supporting weapon for mountain combat because of its portability, ease of concealment, and lightweight ammunition. The 81mm mortar provides longer range and delivers more explosives than the 60mm mortar. However, it is heavier and fewer rounds (usually no more than two per soldier) can be man-packed. The 120mm mortar may be more desirable in some situations, since they can fire either white phosphorous (WP) or HE at greater ranges than lighter mortars and have a significantly better illumination capability. However, because of the weight of these mortars and their ammunition, it may be necessary to transport fewer of them into mountainous terrain and use the remaining gun crews as ammunition bearers, or position them close to a trail network in a valley or at lower elevations. The second technique may be satisfactory if the movement of the unit can be covered and sufficient firing positions exist.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby chola » 24 Apr 2017 10:12

nam wrote:
I totally support the fear mongering. I want the Indians to react harshly to even silly Chinese actions.

US and the Russia used their enmity to take the world for a ride. They used the excuse of ColdWar to build their technological base and fundamentally dominate the world, which continues this day. Neither US nor Russia lost anything substantial, but the remaining world specially Latam, Asia bore the burnt of it.

The Chinese are using the threat from US bogeyman to build their technology base. We don't have overwhelming superiority over PA, because it used "Indian threat" to get everything from F16, Subs, BM and nukes. We suffer everyday due to the lack of superiority over Pakistan.

I want GOI to consider China as a threat and overreact (without getting into real fist fight). If Chinese build 10 ships, GOI should build 11.

This is the only way to build a powerful India.

If Pakis did not go around building nukes, we will still be sitting on a "Peaceful Nuclear Test" and no Agnis.


Namji, I believe this is the proper view.

And I've said this many times before.

Without Cheen, I believe Bharat would have been perfectly fine in a world dominated by goras. Even with the Japanese and East Asian Tigers lapping us in the 1960's, we seem content with our station -- which was then at the bottom of the geo-political totem pole.

But when the lizard began ascending, especially in the last two decades, it threw a wrench into our mindset and made us stand up. My, what a transformation from even when I was child! From the India of the Nehru-Gandhi Clan (under whom the face of India was arguably not even Indian but Mother Teresa) to the muscular India of today under Modi, we have to thank in part to Cheen.

So we do covet China as a rival instead of TSP just as the PRC covets the US as theirs. India-China equal equal will allow us to break out of the South Asian straitjacket. Conversely, Indi-Paki will tie us down.

But that said, we have to actually understand Cheen from a realistic viewpoint. Otherwise, using Cheen as a bogeyman can lead to shaking and wet dhotis and counterproductive solutions like being the world's greatest importer of phoren maal to deal with a dhoti-shivering induced imminent chini attack.

First of all, Cheen had risen not because it is a great military power. And as far as India is concerned, it can never bring enough force and equipment to match us in our theatre of operation because of both geo-politics and simple geography. We will ALWAYS hold the advantage in any war scenario. So we have time to spend and build up domestic resources.

Cheen has risen on the ability of the PRC central bank to print money without going into hyperinflation. This underpins everything they are doing: OBOR, CPEC, HSR on a monumental scale and of course the military projects -- two stealth aircraft, giant transporter, endless flanker variants and a raging river of warships.

Everything they could do and we could not is based on the simple availability of funds. Six or 8 carriers is reasonable to them when compared to the trillion dollar initiatives in OBOR.

So I hope most of all, we can match them in the printing press. But without that we must be smart.

Building 11 carriers to their 10 would not be smart and would be as silly as the USSR trying to race with the US. Cheen, like the US, has a printing press that can do outrageous and insane things. We knew what happened to the Soviets when they attempted to compete against a printing press.

But we do know that Cheen is facing someone with an even bigger printing press. The aforementioned US had hemmed in Cheen with a curtain of steel with American bases all around its first island chain and a cordon of warships and aircraft patrolling right off the chini coasts.

Being smart means allowing the US to soak up the lizard's printing runs. Cheen just launched a carrier. The US has 10 already operational. Cheen began constructing four 100-VLS DDGs in parallel? The USN has 70 of those.

All we need to do is one build one CVN to show the sundry states around the IOR that we too are a global power. And wait for our printing press to come into being.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby sanjaykumar » 25 Apr 2017 19:56

Is the printing press under construction?

The purchasing power parity numbers give China a two fold lead, I believe. But the GDP is more like 4-5 times greater.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby ArjunPandit » 25 Apr 2017 21:37

chola i posted a chart showing how china has been running a current account surplus for almost last 2 decades with each month running into 20Bn USD. I agree with your general sense that lizard rising has lit a fire in our mush's too.but attributing their rise merely to fake printing presses is childish..

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 25 Apr 2017 21:50

New Video
Chinese infiltration routes into Uttarakhand
https://youtu.be/J_BK5BhemOo

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Shankas » 26 Apr 2017 03:12

NRao wrote:Lui,

So,

United Nations was launched in 1945.

Islam in around 570 ad

Christ 0.0 start of .......

Buddha 623 bc.

The world according to Max Muller started around 3000 bc.

Kashmir around 5000 bc, if not more

So, where do you exactly want us to restart history based on Chinese fiction?


Chinese use of the Siddham script for the Pratisara Mantra, from the Later Tang Dynasty. 927 CE

Image

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby ArjunPandit » 26 Apr 2017 03:28

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/sukma-attack-maoists-were-armed-with-rocket-launchers-ak-47s-say-injured-crpf-jawans/articleshow/58363080.cms
Liu is that china? you mentioned it few days back..I guess CPC provides info on a need to know basis

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Liu » 26 Apr 2017 07:34

ArjunPandit wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/sukma-attack-maoists-were-armed-with-rocket-launchers-ak-47s-say-injured-crpf-jawans/articleshow/58363080.cms
Liu is that china? you mentioned it few days back..I guess CPC provides info on a need to know basis

if china were to arm those rebel,those rebel would not be militria armed with ak47,but a army armed with tanks and cannon.

chinese stocks are full of spare outdated cannons and tanks produced during cold wars ,which are enough to arm hundreds of divisions.

if gifting those outdated heavy weapons to indian rebels,china could save lots money to maitain/destroy them.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby SriJoy » 26 Apr 2017 07:43

Liu wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/sukma-attack-maoists-were-armed-with-rocket-launchers-ak-47s-say-injured-crpf-jawans/articleshow/58363080.cms
Liu is that china? you mentioned it few days back..I guess CPC provides info on a need to know basis

if china were to arm those rebel,those rebel would not be militria armed with ak47,but a army armed with tanks and cannon.

chinese stocks are full of spare outdated cannons and tanks produced during cold wars ,which are enough to arm hundreds of divisions.

if gifting those outdated heavy weapons to indian rebels,china could save lots money to maitain/destroy them.


Explain to us how is China going to smuggle cannons and tanks into India ?
It can smuggle guns and ammo easily enough- just like how we smuggled them in to China to save your behinds from the Japanese, remember ?

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby saumitra_j » 26 Apr 2017 07:45

Liu, you should thank God/Mao that CPC and PLA folks don't think like you. Arming rebels with tank/cannon is declaration of war...If that happens, PLA will be fighting the Indian Armed forces ......

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 26 Apr 2017 07:45

Liu wrote:if china were to arm those rebel,those rebel would not be militria armed with ak47,but a army armed with tanks and cannon.

chinese stocks are full of spare outdated cannons and tanks produced during cold wars ,which are enough to arm hundreds of divisions.

if gifting those outdated heavy weapons to indian rebels,china could save lots money to maitain/destroy them.

Are you trying to say that Chinese are so stupid that they will try and ship tanks to a few score rebels deep in an Indian forest? I think you are trying to be too clever by half Mr Liu. I am tempted to agree with you just to mock your boastful face - but your post is such a stupid idea I don't know whether to laugh or to vomit.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Liu » 26 Apr 2017 08:09

saumitra_j wrote:Liu, you should thank God/Mao that CPC and PLA folks don't think like you. Arming rebels with tank/cannon is declaration of war...If that happens, PLA will be fighting the Indian Armed forces ......

during 1980s,china/usa indeed armed Afghanistan/combodia rebels with cannon/tank/missle while not avoid waring against soviet.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Liu » 26 Apr 2017 08:19

shiv wrote:
Liu wrote:if china were to arm those rebel,those rebel would not be militria armed with ak47,but a army armed with tanks and cannon.

chinese stocks are full of spare outdated cannons and tanks produced during cold wars ,which are enough to arm hundreds of divisions.

if gifting those outdated heavy weapons to indian rebels,china could save lots money to maitain/destroy them.

Are you trying to say that Chinese are so stupid that they will try and ship tanks to a few score rebels deep in an Indian forest? I think you are trying to be too clever by half Mr Liu. I am tempted to agree with you just to mock your boastful face - but your post is such a stupid idea I don't know whether to laugh or to vomit.


how about rebels in northeast india like assam?
they are neighbouring north burma,while north burma is controlled by many pro~china warlords.

to tell the truth, if china had really wanted arm rebels in northeast india, those rebel now would bomb indian army with cannon/tank/missles.


for example
the truth is that china has avoid envolving abroad conflicts since mao died.

Burma communist once controlled half of burma with the support from china during Mao era.

after mao died, china stopped official aid and burma communists collapsed.

some remains of burma communists (such as United Wa State Army) become warlords and survive with the sympathy/unofficial aid from chinese society.
Last edited by Liu on 26 Apr 2017 08:30, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 26 Apr 2017 08:24

Liu wrote:during 1980s,china/usa indeed armed Afghanistan/combodia rebels with cannon/tank/missle while not avoid waring against soviet.

:rotfl: And you want to copy America..

Like this:

https://twitter.com/rajfortyseven/statu ... 6042819585
PLAN poster a big Photoshop??Uses USNavy SanAntonio class LPD's pic

Image

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby ranjan.rao » 26 Apr 2017 08:26

Liu wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/sukma-attack-maoists-were-armed-with-rocket-launchers-ak-47s-say-injured-crpf-jawans/articleshow/58363080.cms
Liu is that china? you mentioned it few days back..I guess CPC provides info on a need to know basis

if china were to arm those rebel,those rebel would not be militria armed with ak47,but a army armed with tanks and cannon.

chinese stocks are full of spare outdated cannons and tanks produced during cold wars ,which are enough to arm hundreds of divisions.

if gifting those outdated heavy weapons to indian rebels,china could save lots money to maitain/destroy them.
why not the new air craft carrier and j20

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 26 Apr 2017 08:26

Liu wrote:to tell the truth, if china had really wanted arm rebels in northeast india, those rebel now would bomb indian army with cannon/tank/missles.

And China would get bombed back in return. China is so wealthy - India is so poor. India has less to lose by bombing China. we will stay in stone age - it is you mama's boys who will lose more. Come on Mr BoastfuLiu

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby ranjan.rao » 26 Apr 2017 08:32

Again as Arjun said what China wants is getting more complicated than what women want

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Liu » 26 Apr 2017 08:35

ranjan.rao wrote:
Liu wrote:if china were to arm those rebel,those rebel would not be militria armed with ak47,but a army armed with tanks and cannon.

chinese stocks are full of spare outdated cannons and tanks produced during cold wars ,which are enough to arm hundreds of divisions.

if gifting those outdated heavy weapons to indian rebels,china could save lots money to maitain/destroy them.
why not the new air craft carrier and j20

they do not deserve it ,he he.

well, all i posted above just prove :


to insist that china arm indian rebels is just a persecution complex.
Last edited by hnair on 26 Apr 2017 09:33, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Off for a month. Your opinions here show chinese as rank idiots. Please come back with a few interesting URLs

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 26 Apr 2017 08:44

Liu wrote:
to insist that china arm indian rebels is just a persecution complex.

I think I will start that Chinese psyche thread.

Liu is actually more wily and intelligent than might appear from his boastfulness.

He (like many other Chinese posters) are actually able to pull Indian chaddis down and expose our unmentionables. In any topic about China - he draws people to talk about India and once the topic is established he points out why the Indians are wrong or just crazy.

Anyone who gets baited into talking about India will suffer this fate. In fact this "persecution complex" retort is a perfect example of Gaslighting (courtesy LokeshC I think who drew my attention to a perfect name for this tactic)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting
Gaslighting is a form of manipulation that seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or members of a group, hoping to make targets question their own memory, perception, and sanity. Using persistent denial, misdirection, contradiction, and lying, it attempts to destabilize the target and delegitimize the target's belief.


This guy is actually good - but he will score as long as people
1. Swallow the bait and talk about India rather than continuing to talk about China
2. Make posts which end in a question which an ideal invite to the rhetorician to hit back with a smart reply.

If you get angry, he wins.

Getting back to topic -- never ever try to prove that China is arming Indian rebels. Proof is not needed. Only accusation. Don't even argue about it. Always treat it as a statement of fact and always talk about China if you must reply.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby SriJoy » 26 Apr 2017 08:57

Liu wrote:
saumitra_j wrote:Liu, you should thank God/Mao that CPC and PLA folks don't think like you. Arming rebels with tank/cannon is declaration of war...If that happens, PLA will be fighting the Indian Armed forces ......

during 1980s,china/usa indeed armed Afghanistan/combodia rebels with cannon/tank/missle while not avoid waring against soviet.


It was on neutral ground. Afghanistan is not part of Soviet Union. It also happened in Angola.
Now, show us an example of a nation arming rebels in another nation, without the latter nation considering it an act of war.

You must remember, your nation is far weaker than it appears, because you guys have no freedom. Easy to start rebellions amongst non-Hans if they have proper support.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby SriJoy » 26 Apr 2017 08:58

Liu wrote:
ranjan.rao wrote: why not the new air craft carrier and j20

they do not deserve it ,he he.

well, all i posted above just prove :


to insist that china arm indian rebels is just a persecution complex.


Considering that China has in the past supported Maoist rebels openly, it is no complex. But i wouldn't expect people like you, who are under tightly controlled information regime, to know such facts.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 26 Apr 2017 09:14

Once again - let me post something that we need to remember. Chinese posters (and Pakis for that matter) are masters of using what I once defined as the "Torn shirt vs open fly" style of argument

In this type of argument - the Indian says something about China and the Chinese instantly makes the Indian go on the defensive by posting some thing negative about India. Anyone who starts defending India has swallowed the bait and is now eating out of the Chinese guy's hands because the latter has successfully shifted the topic from China to India. Indians on the internet are suckers for this - and ideally (not this thread) this kind of crap should be stopped on speciality threads like the China Military thread by strict admin action in stopping sucker Indians from taking the bait and arguing about India rather than staying on topic.


Image

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby hnair » 26 Apr 2017 09:34

Liu sent for a month to Outer Mongolia for re-education. This thread is getting filled with serious answers to his stupid opinions. We need interesting URLs

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby chola » 26 Apr 2017 15:50

hnair wrote:Liu sent for a month to Outer Mongolia for re-education. This thread is getting filled with serious answers to his stupid opinions. We need interesting URLs


Good move! For too long, he held the jingos among us hostage to his exceedingly stupid opinions.

Hopefully without him (and for that matter, TSJones) we are free from any regular interlopers and can finally speak our mind without needing to be in a constant state of psychological warfare as Shiv-ji suggests (which frankly is stupid and antithetical to a free people prone to exploring and reflecting.)

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Cain Marko » 26 Apr 2017 19:39

hnair wrote:Liu sent for a month to Outer Mongolia for re-education. This thread is getting filled with serious answers to his stupid opinions. We need interesting URLs

Wonder what ulanbatoriji has to say about this... :D

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Vikas » 26 Apr 2017 22:51

Why do you folks take every post of Chinese posters so seriously as if they are here representing CPC.
See this post of Tanks and cannons by Liu was his way of saying that if China was arming Maoists murderers, They probably would be carrying better ammo but posters here jumped on as if China was actually trying to bring in few J-10 and Tanks to the inventory of Maoists.
On top, they get banned and we lose regular dose of our entertainment.
As far acts of War, Pakis have been arming terrorists in Punjab and now Kashmir since late 70's and exploding Bombs all over Bharat but we are yet to call it as 'Act of War'. Don't be surprised if Com.Yachuri and MSA blame Bharat if China decides to arm Maoists murderers tomorrow.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby rpartha » 27 Apr 2017 00:14

shiv wrote:Once again - let me post something that we need to remember. Chinese posters (and Pakis for that matter) are masters of using what I once defined as the "Torn shirt vs open fly" style of argument

In this type of argument - the Indian says something about China and the Chinese instantly makes the Indian go on the defensive by posting some thing negative about India. Anyone who starts defending India has swallowed the bait and is now eating out of the Chinese guy's hands because the latter has successfully shifted the topic from China to India. Indians on the internet are suckers for this - and ideally (not this thread) this kind of crap should be stopped on speciality threads like the China Military thread by strict admin action in stopping sucker Indians from taking the bait and arguing about India rather than staying on topic.


Image

Well said Shiv... Also we need to understand what they have to offer instead of berating them... it is a fact that China has more resource compared to India and China has betrayed India in the past (possibly due to our own foolishness) but we should find a way as a group to get more info... It is not about where we were and it is about where we want to reach and for that what we want to know from them.. But having said that does this guy - Liu, know anything? :)

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby chola » 27 Apr 2017 08:40

ArjunPandit wrote:chola i posted a chart showing how china has been running a current account surplus for almost last 2 decades with each month running into 20Bn USD. I agree with your general sense that lizard rising has lit a fire in our mush's too.but attributing their rise merely to fake printing presses is childish..


Arjun-ji, the "printing press" is not a deragotory term. It is the rare national ability to "print money", or more correctly, create credit without sending a nation into hyperinflation.

FDI and the trade surplus were major beams in the framework that brought them the printing press. I wrote about that for years here at BR.

What we see them do in the post global recession era (ante 2007) is a maturing of the printing press. The projects they are undertaking are insane in scope and are simply not undertaken by a nation without a printing press, i.e. the US and possibly Japan. The EU if they can ever get their act together as one entity.

sanjaykumar wrote:Is the printing press under construction?

The purchasing power parity numbers give China a two fold lead, I believe. But the GDP is more like 4-5 times greater.


In due time and organically. And it will come for whether our babus and netas planned it.

The Chinis mostly planned theirs though. By developing a manufacturing base that makes it easier to "print money" or create credit overseas. At its heart, it's simply barter. In PRC's case, it is bartering roads, rails and equipment encapsulated in infrastructure. Far easier to print money as a turd world nation when you got solid "stuff" to back your currency.

GDP is only part of the story. If it were just GDP, it shouldn't translate into insane shit like using more cement in one year than the US in the last century or swallowing more steel than the rest of the workd combined.

The printing press works only if you produce so much chit that no matter how much you print there are more stuff you can buy. And huge infrastructure like airports, ships, high speed rail, etc. soaks up cash like no other.

Building stuff is the key.

If there is not enough stuff produced then you'd have too much paper chasing after a limited amount of goods and off go the hyperinflation horses.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby ArjunPandit » 27 Apr 2017 09:45

Thanks for the clarificaiton RajRajendran Chola, unfortunately i have very poor memory to remember my recent posts

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Deans » 28 Apr 2017 15:05

My article on the China Pakistan Economic corridor (CPEC) has been published in the Indian military review.
X posting here from the CPEC thread, as it gives an insight into the Chinese mind and how their `Tarrel...' allies are being shafted.

https://goo.gl/I4cuC2
Last edited by Deans on 28 Apr 2017 15:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Deans » 28 Apr 2017 15:38

The CPEC article was an afterthought. I originally intended to do an article for the army on `Reassessing the threat we face from the PLA in Tibet' as they were keen to get a civilian point of view. That article broadly echoed the views on this thread, particularly Shiv (BR duly cited in my submission).
However, the sense I got ( I won't name names and organisations) was that while the article was factually correct, it was politically incorrect to take a position that varies so greatly from what the establishment has got comfortable believing. If one look online, there is instead Claude Arpi's article on Tibet's Infrastructure.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 29 Apr 2017 06:05

cross post
SriJoy wrote:To my knowledge, the terrain and logistics supply line heavily favours the Chinese in Aksai Chin.

Not as simple as that. Their roads and comm lines are not all weather and their logistics lines are literally 1000s of km long. Tibet has a marginal economy and so a huge inflow of troops means food needs shipping in from the east. With average altitudes being >4500 meter - anyone who gets altitude sickness will need to go 100s of km before there is a low altitude region for recovery

If you are interested

Please see
1. Chinese infra at Tibet-Arunachal Pradesh border
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wUkKcSBtss


2. Chinese Roads and infra near Aksai Chin
http://defenceforumindia.com/chinese-ro ... -chin-1978

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Deans » 29 Apr 2017 10:49

shiv wrote:cross post
SriJoy wrote:To my knowledge, the terrain and logistics supply line heavily favours the Chinese in Aksai Chin.

Not as simple as that. Their roads and comm lines are not all weather and their logistics lines are literally 1000s of km long. Tibet has a marginal economy and so a huge inflow of troops means food needs shipping in from the east. With average altitudes being >4500 meter - anyone who gets altitude sickness will need to go 100s of km before there is a low altitude region for recovery
If you are interested

Please see
1. Chinese infra at Tibet-Arunachal Pradesh border
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wUkKcSBtss

2. Chinese Roads and infra near Aksai Chin
http://defenceforumindia.com/chinese-ro ... -chin-1978


I can't think of a better way for any newbie to quickly understand this thread, than this one post.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby SriJoy » 29 Apr 2017 11:02

shiv wrote:cross post
SriJoy wrote:To my knowledge, the terrain and logistics supply line heavily favours the Chinese in Aksai Chin.

Not as simple as that. Their roads and comm lines are not all weather and their logistics lines are literally 1000s of km long. Tibet has a marginal economy and so a huge inflow of troops means food needs shipping in from the east. With average altitudes being >4500 meter - anyone who gets altitude sickness will need to go 100s of km before there is a low altitude region for recovery

If you are interested

Please see
1. Chinese infra at Tibet-Arunachal Pradesh border
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wUkKcSBtss


2. Chinese Roads and infra near Aksai Chin
http://defenceforumindia.com/chinese-ro ... -chin-1978


Much appreciated, sir.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby ShauryaT » 29 Apr 2017 18:03

Deans wrote:My article on the China Pakistan Economic corridor (CPEC) has been published in the Indian military review.
X posting here from the CPEC thread, as it gives an insight into the Chinese mind and how their `Tarrel...' allies are being shafted.

https://goo.gl/I4cuC2
Good one to drill the fact that CPEC is akin to a colonial project to enrich the colonizers. That is what China has done wherever they have "invested". But another thought, could India have pre-empted CPEC by co-opting Pakistan? This is the part I think we are missing. We are letting non regional powers to take advantage of a region that belongs to us. We either force the issue or at least come up with stratagems to stop this exploitation for at the end of the day - all of this undercuts India's power.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 29 Apr 2017 18:13

ShauryaT wrote:could India have pre-empted CPEC by co-opting Pakistan?

Wrong thread but I would be happy to hear of instances where India has co-opted Pakistan for anything


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