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Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby nam » 13 Apr 2017 02:15

Dhoti shivering time. for the Chinese. This report from last year, how we have beefed up our positions across LAC. More units, armour, reserves etc...

https://www.telegraphindia.com/1160718/jsp/frontpage/story_97322.jsp


I recommend PLA move more men from the east in to Tibet.

We are feeling bored.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby ManSingh » 13 Apr 2017 02:31

They plan to come airborne..

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 13 Apr 2017 06:42

Liu wrote:chinese has obeyed those princples for long time,and china has kept unity for long time.


indian has ingored those ones,and had hardy been united until britishmen conqered india.

hehe.

Have you heard of Chinookya ? He was India's Sun Tzutiapa. He described a form of argument where the topic is changed from me to you, He called it "torn shirt versus open fly" argument

In this type of argument Indian tells Chinese - "Hey your shirt is torn". Chinese laughs and says "But your fly is open"

You see Indian fly being open does not repair Chinese torn shirt. It is difficult for Han to live in Tibet and they have to maintain large force levels to keep the Tibetan population under control. Also Xinjiang, but that is a different subject. This truth does not get changed even if you spend a lifetime talking about Indian history or Indian open shitting. I notice that you Chinese have such a great fear of having your own mediocrity recognized and laughed at that you love to change the subject and try to talk about the other person's mediocrity. That is also mediocrity

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby sudarshan » 13 Apr 2017 06:45

Suraj wrote:
Liu wrote:2.armed force can not be grouped by county/province,in order to avoid Local separatism and warlords.

Here I think you're revealing more. China is terrified of warlordism . Entire dynasties have been lost to warlords and warring states. Taiping Rebellion. The period after Yuan Shikai's death. All of these show that China is not inherently united, and its natural state is to separate into small warlord-ruled territories. China does not stay united except by top down central control. Weakening of central control leads to immediate catastrophe, resulting in anywhere from 5-40 million deaths. It has happened to you more than half a dozen times. China dominates the top 10 list of worst wars by human casualties. India on the other hand despite comparable population, has no entries at all.


Looks like China has had an X-1000 year period of Stalinist-style mistrust and suspicion, being passed off as an empire. Stalin, however, was just one megalomaniac, China it seems has institutionalized the mistrust and suspicion, and even developed elaborate schemes to counter it. And is today proudly showing off that mistrust through messengers like Liu! Wow, bloody wow.

Admins, please don't ban these Chinese posters, they are a treasure-trove of info about China, especially when they unwittingly reveal their weakest points (which they even try to portray as great strengths).

I'm not jealous of this Chinese way of "running an empire." So I guess I'm a mediocrity now?

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby vina » 13 Apr 2017 07:00

sudarshan wrote:Looks like China has had an X-1000 year period of Stalinist-style mistrust and suspicion, being passed off as an empire.

I think it was Lee Kwan Yew who said that the way of the Chinese to get something done is not COUNT heads but CHOP heads. While that has historically been true the world over, China (unlike Taiwan and SoKo, Singapore is a flawed semi democracy) due to the communist rule has not been able to move out of that and become more civilised in terms of how they rule themselves. The only difference now is that the Communist Party and the guy and the top replaced the Emperor and his ranks of Mandarins.

Only when the Chinese develop a culture of "counting" heads will it become a somewhat normal society. The rest is all just old wine in new bottle.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 13 Apr 2017 08:55

Why are Tibet and Xinjiang so dark at night? No electricity or mediocrity?
Image

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby hnair » 13 Apr 2017 09:59

Liu, a reminder - your job here is to deliver URLs of interesting news.

Liu wrote:
chinese has obeyed those princples for long time,and china has kept unity for long time.


indian has ingored those ones,and had hardy been united until britishmen conqered india.

hehe.


Once again, Liu, you are opening new areas for Indians to laugh at china

Didnt china get bitched up by the Japanese, like, a few decades back? without Indian troops, americans and british, what would the chinese do? Nothing. Because other than in badly made Bruce Lee movies, the chinese people had shown zero will to fight the japanese, once they got enslaved. The taiwanese are still holding their own against china and preventing unity, with the the help of Japan and America. What about those Uighurs with knives? They dont seem to show china as a unified country. Aren't they mincing you guys like pork loins, whenever the opportunity presents? By your own earlier posts, no one other than the Han seems to be signed up for your educational system.


sudarshan wrote:Admins, please don't ban these Chinese posters, they are a treasure-trove of info about China, especially when they unwittingly reveal their weakest points (which they even try to portray as great strengths).


indeed. But Liu has to start delivering URLs, he has provided enough humor

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Karthik S » 13 Apr 2017 10:21

shiv wrote:Why are Tibet and Xinjiang so dark at night? No electricity or mediocrity?
Image


That's because hardly anyone lives there.

Image

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby DavidD » 13 Apr 2017 10:55

You guys are exactly right, China is indeed terrified of regionalism. Everyone should be. There's a reason why core China has for the most part stayed united since the Han dynasty some 2200 years ago while all other ancient empires have fallen apart more often than not. It's human nature to segregate. It doesn't matter if it's race, religion, ethnicity, or whatever else you can think of, people simply love to segregate into "us" vs. "them".

As some on here have already suggested at various times, things that the Chinese government do have to be viewed through that lens. Oftentimes even the most outwardly directed comments and actions are actually meant for the internal audience. The Chinese leaders understand more than anyone else that great nations don't fall to without, as they're mere catalysts that speed up the rot from within. That doesn't mean they actually know how to slow down let alone stop the inevitable internal collapse, just that they're doing whatever they believe is the best way to accomplish this heretofore impossible task.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Suraj » 13 Apr 2017 11:36

DavidD wrote:You guys are exactly right, China is indeed terrified of regionalism. Everyone should be. There's a reason why core China has for the most part stayed united since the Han dynasty some 2200 years ago while all other ancient empires have fallen apart more often than not. It's human nature to segregate. It doesn't matter if it's race, religion, ethnicity, or whatever else you can think of, people simply love to segregate into "us" vs. "them".

That's not the point . Sure regionalism is normal. But the scale of tumult that China sees is absurd. Pretty much every dynastic epoch ends in catastrophe. Taiping Rebellion. The Yuans overthrowing Jin & Song. Revolt at the end of Ming Dynasty. Chinese Civil War. An Lushan Rebellion. Dungan Revolt. Three Kingdoms War. Yellow Turban Rebellion. Scallion Pancake Rebellion. Xiaolongbao Rebellion. Ok, I made the last two up... Each of these killed between 5-50 million people. Each of them! China keeps blabbing about being a united empire, yet pretty much every one of its dynasties in the last two millenia ended in bloodshed on a scale no one else in history has seen within a single country. Even your core falls apart, as it did during the Warlord Era of the 1920s, less than a century ago.

In comparison, the worst war in Indian civilizational memory (and we had about as many people) is the Kalinga War, which dates back to even before Qin Shihuangdi created the first Chinese dynasty. As you can see from that map, pretty much all of modern India was already united under the Mauryan Empire decades before the Qin dynasty even came into existence. The Kalinga War killed quarter of a million, and the carnage led Emperor Ashoka - known as India's greatest emperor, and whose seal forms the central wheel of the modern Indian flag - to turn to pacifist Buddhism.

Does no one in China ever do that ? "Hold on guys, a few hundred thousand are dead. Maybe we should put down our weapons and talk this through" ? Instead you guys go on killing to an extent that would give Hitler a complex, and then repeat that multiple times every few hundred years ? Doesn't anyone ever pause to think "we really fcuked up 200 years ago after that last dynasty. And 450 years ago after the one before it, and the one before it... maybe we should do it differently this time ?"

It's all well to give lip service to dealing with regionalism etc, but what exactly has China got to show for it, besides the most astounding record of killings in human history ? Almost every time a dynasty ends, you lost 2-10% of your population. It almost leads to a neurotic level of control at the central level, trying ot stave off that eventuality, which in turn essentially makes it more likely. When CPC falls apart, China risks another wave of revolt that might kill anywhere from 50-100 million people, based on its history from pretty much all the way back to Qin.

While we have regionalism in India, the concept of lack of central rule leading to this much armed rebellion and revolt is foreign to us. The Indian Army has plenty of regiments that are 'regional' in character , like all the Gorkha regiments. But it never crosses our mind that it could foment a Gorkha revolt led by a Gorkha warlord. That's the sort of fear the CPC and PLA deals with. Regionalism in India means lack of strong central rule leads to a more looser confederation of states. It doesn't mean going completely tits up with anywhere between a Belgium to a France worth of people getting killed in the process, like China does.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby hnair » 13 Apr 2017 12:20

DavidD, the issue is that, we in India are deeply worried that China is running after western parity (as Liu says in post after post), while having no sense of history that Suraj has listed above.

The reason India is deeply worried is this: two of the greatest ever civilizations of earth, have never come together in history and made earth a better place, which is ok. But they should not at least destroy each other, because of the huge sense of inadequacy that post-revolutionary chinese leadership exhibits. Liu has rightly pointed out his leadership's flaw, this unending chase to avoid the western definition of "mediocrity"

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby DavidD » 13 Apr 2017 12:42

I really don't think you guys should worry too much about China trying to destroy India. As you can see in Suraj's post, the Chinese are much more likely to fight each other. For example, if you think all the uproar in Chinese media about Dalai Lama's visit to India is meant for the Indian audience, think again. It's meant to show the Chinese audience how the CCP is standing up for Chinese sovereignty. I know it has the potential to get out of hand and force actual conflict, and the CCP knows it too, hence the seemingly rather excessive and persistent control over the media and the internet.

It's true that a lot of bloodshed always follows a period of glory, but that's the path the Chinese have chosen for thousands of years. All or nothing. 300 years of unprecedented glory followed by a few decades of unprecedented bloodshed. That's the unfortunate ugly truth about the history of China, and the price the Chinese have paid for their historical position and their political unity. Is it worth it? Certainly not for those who died, but it is for those who survived and become a part of the strongest and most unified "us". The offspring of those who survived have continued to choose the riskier alternative, perhaps it's built into the Han genes after so many iterations?

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby kapilrdave » 13 Apr 2017 14:31

In plain English it is called barbarism.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby hnair » 13 Apr 2017 14:35

DavidD, you too do not seem to be getting it. "China trying to destroy India" is not what is worrying. If anything, the heading of thid thread should tell you how worrying it is for us. So that is not something that this forum has any doubts on. Over at Tibet, Indian military and intelligence can deal with whatever the CMC can throw, at a technological or strategic level. At this point in history, at least. Plus India has finally ventured out in creating strategic alliances with all of china's neighbors (except North Korea), unlike the transactional one that China is striking

It is that Chinese leadership's shortsightedness can setback both countries' ascendancy and turn what could have been a complementary role into something that submerges Asia back into the second rung. The bloodshed cycles is not something that has to happen again.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Suraj » 13 Apr 2017 14:44

hnair: we might be making a mistake to assume China is trying to break the cycle and achieve normalcy when it comes to transition of power. IMHO, they don't care, as long as they keep accomplishing the zeniths in between.

It's a mistake to simply dismiss their attitude as 'barbarism'. Maybe it is, but that's simply a comforting judgement to make, that serves little further purpose. It's more important to understand how their attitude defines their actions, how it can help predict them, and what the weaknesses it implies are.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby vina » 13 Apr 2017 16:57

Karthik S wrote:That's because hardly anyone lives there.

Image


Ah. The Good Hakim is playing Piskolagical games with you. The next question is .
Why is that "hardly anyone lives there? "
The answer to that is what the Hakim is trying to get you to understand!

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 13 Apr 2017 18:23

Karthik S wrote:
shiv wrote:Why are Tibet and Xinjiang so dark at night? No electricity or mediocrity?
Image


That's because hardly anyone lives there.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8Rm3Ljpk_EI/T ... g_line.png

:(( :(( :(( But why why why??

I mean there is this huge rich nation superpower and all the people are concentrated in one corner like rats? What's the problem. I mean have you ever flown a flight where they pack 150 passengers in the front end and keep the entire back empty. Or a boat loaded only on one side. I mean come on - there are 1.4 billion Chinese. Why can't they fill up all those dark areas which cover 2/3rds of the land area?

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby NRao » 13 Apr 2017 19:47

shiv wrote:
Karthik S wrote:
That's because hardly anyone lives there.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8Rm3Ljpk_EI/T ... g_line.png

:(( :(( :(( But why why why??

I mean there is this huge rich nation superpower and all the people are concentrated in one corner like rats? What's the problem. I mean have you ever flown a flight where they pack 150 passengers in the front end and keep the entire back empty. Or a boat loaded only on one side. I mean come on - there are 1.4 billion Chinese. Why can't they fill up all those dark areas which cover 2/3rds of the land area?


Because rats always look for land that is not theirs?

They feel they have Tibet, so their eyes are set on Siebria. I think China has leased land in Siberia from the Russians. Bet they will not leave, claiming Qing Dynasty out reach program since 2010.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 14 Apr 2017 10:03

The fourth (and last) of the North East India videos and Chinese border infra. I will move on to other areas after this.
https://youtu.be/FylUNX_smZ0

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby DavidD » 14 Apr 2017 11:12

vina wrote:Ah. The Good Hakim is playing Piskolagical games with you. The next question is .
Why is that "hardly anyone lives there? "
The answer to that is what the Hakim is trying to get you to understand!


Because it's mostly desert and very high plateaus/mountains?

Image

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby DavidD » 14 Apr 2017 11:22

hnair wrote:DavidD, you too do not seem to be getting it. "China trying to destroy India" is not what is worrying. If anything, the heading of thid thread should tell you how worrying it is for us. So that is not something that this forum has any doubts on. Over at Tibet, Indian military and intelligence can deal with whatever the CMC can throw, at a technological or strategic level. At this point in history, at least. Plus India has finally ventured out in creating strategic alliances with all of china's neighbors (except North Korea), unlike the transactional one that China is striking

It is that Chinese leadership's shortsightedness can setback both countries' ascendancy and turn what could have been a complementary role into something that submerges Asia back into the second rung. The bloodshed cycles is not something that has to happen again.


I think you're being naive. I can't think of an instance of two great powers forming complementary rather than adversarial roles. It's "us" vs. "them", remember. Some may think it's sad that the human race has been unable to evolve past that, but I'm resigned to the possibility that perhaps this is simply what nature demands--competition and survival of the fittest. Humans are perhaps the greatest species in mass murdering each other, but maybe this is literally what made us humans, a species that dominate the planet?
Last edited by hnair on 17 Apr 2017 20:16, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: no baiting. 1 month off

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Suraj » 15 Apr 2017 01:38

On the same tenor of Chinese claims on Tibet because some yak paid them tribute 300 years ago, I present a more credible Indian claim on Tibet:
2000 year old Ashoka pillars and stupa found and restored in Chinese Occupied Tibet
Legend has it that over 2,500 years ago, Buddha's disciples retrieved one skull bone, two scapulas, four teeth and 84,000 pearl-like sariras (relics) after Lord Buddha's body was cremated.

According to Buddhist records, Emperor Ashoka collected all of Sakyamuni's sarira, stored them in pagoda-shaped shrines before sending them to different parts of the world.

China is believed to have received 19 of them including the one in Nangchen but most of them have collapsed due to natural wear and tear as well as negligence.

Three more such stupas were discovered in Chinese cities of Xian, Nanjing and near Ayuwang in Zhejiang Province.
The Nangchen stupa is the first to be discovered in the Tibetan region. The fate of the other 15 sent by Ashoka to China is unknown.

Therefore Tibet, Nanjing and Xian are Indian territory, using same logic as Chinese one.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 15 Apr 2017 08:55

Folks I don't want to post blasphemy on this thread. Nor do I want to post misleading stuff.

But it does appear to me that the Chinese military presence all along the border is overall smaller than the Indian military presence. And I am referring to the entire length from Aksai Chin to the eastern tip of Arunachal Pradesh. Only in the Tawang area are Chinese forces sitting in some strength.

Having said that there are two factors we need to recall
1. The Chinese ability to move forces along their highways - which though long, and sometimes arduous, are still a big asset
2. Chinese missile forces for random punishment are an unknown quantity to me

As against this is the fact that logistics lines get longer and longer for the Chinese in Western Tibet and in the movement of large forces - the Chinese ability to have acclimatized men ready is questionable. That is presently an unknown quantity to me. Special force insertion and paratroops are possible - but that is a different issue of airfields and air logistics.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Singha » 15 Apr 2017 09:02

If one batallion has india dhoti shivering with swank roads and long runways as backup why should they put one brigade.

War is pursuit of goals by other means than bullets sometimes. infra serves the purpose in tibet with carefully curated reports of shock and fist divisions that will come from the coast within a day

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 15 Apr 2017 09:12

Well - in 1962 the Chinese build up was open and blatant. Defenders at Namka Chu sitting shivering at night with neither warm clothes nor firewood for fires could see dozens of hypnotizing fires on the the opposite slopes of the Thagla ridge above them.

Later at Bum La the Chinese forces built up gradually in an open field and the soldiers would even exercise en masses in full view of Indian posts meters away.

No point repeating that Indian comm was bad, maps were bad, higher leadership was poor - but the Chinese intent which was as clear as crystal was neither read nor communicated to the blinkered dolts in Delhi. But I digress.

Any border action with China will have to be preceded by an open and visible Chinese build up just like our own Op Parakram. That will need a robust counter build up and no dhoti shivering

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Singha » 15 Apr 2017 09:50

They have already got india to ack tibet is part of china party line. India is not laying a claim to any part of tibet except aksai chin ....

Any future "punish india" play can be through planes and missiles and attacks on shipping by n-subs.

If india is serious a start is support for free tibet abd renouncing tibet is part of china line. If china supports ulfa nscn and tsp we can atleast support peaceful tibet govt in exile in perpetual mode

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby niran » 15 Apr 2017 10:23

shiv wrote: Only in the Tawang area are Chinese forces sitting in some strength.


this raises a question
why did cheen stopped at Tawang?
among the multiple reasons both by Bhartiya BRF and cheeni BRF most important reasons are
1. Terrain
2. Logistics
cheen have the heights on their side, India has on its side Tawang is like the narrow part of the hour glass, as soon as cheen poke their heads beyond the narrows IA can/will chop off their heads before the can open their mouth and say "Aiya"

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 15 Apr 2017 21:07


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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby ShauryaT » 15 Apr 2017 21:49

I think our ORBAT has to center on taking out their logistical nodes, Lhasa being the lynchpin. Our ability to take the war to them is the need of the hour. 17th core was first move, need to see it completed. An SF led action, by either side is the only way to make some permanent gains for either side. If both sides have to depend on a build up, then the likely result would be what happened at Sumdorong Chu - a stalemate, where no one can win, an eventual withdrawal and a defacto win for PRC, being the occupier of Tibet.

What we need is a mindset change, change in priorities along with buildup of requisite capabilities. At this time, we are occupied with only defending the LAC, a task we are well equipped to do. Beijing knows their hold on to Tibet is part of their "imperial" design, not a civilizational continuum. India needs to challenge this imperial design in the name of historical and contemporary values. But, we need to build the capabilities before we speak. Build an SF command add to the mountain divisions, over time. We do have time on our side as China's risk/reward ratio is negatively skewed, they are sitting pretty on the plateau. But we may also go the other way, we will never build these capabilities being content in holding the LAC.

Which way will India move?

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby vasu raya » 15 Apr 2017 21:55

just a thought, India shouldn't allow the Chinese build up in the first place, it only leads to attrition
Last edited by vasu raya on 16 Apr 2017 07:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby manjgu » 16 Apr 2017 07:01

ShauryaT... a stalemate , where no one can win is defacto LOSS for PRC... the reason that prevents PRC from doing an offensive against India is precisely this..they fear a stalemate and consequent loss of face. I dont believe SF will make much difference to the outcome... given their size.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 16 Apr 2017 07:56

ShauryaT wrote:I think our ORBAT has to center on taking out their logistical nodes, Lhasa being the lynchpin.

Lhasa and Nyingchi. Also half a dozen bridges (out of hundreds) on the railway line and preferably Golmud - which is 800 km to the north - which is a massive railway logistical node.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby ShauryaT » 16 Apr 2017 11:21

manjgu wrote:ShauryaT... a stalemate , where no one can win is defacto LOSS for PRC... the reason that prevents PRC from doing an offensive against India is precisely this..they fear a stalemate and consequent loss of face. I dont believe SF will make much difference to the outcome... given their size.
On SF, I said led by them, not just by them. So lots of cultivation (like upgrading of SFF, infiltration into Tibet, sabotage, behind the front lines action focused on taking the logistics out and prevent their build up). The ORBAT is premised on we being able to do a buildup but prevent them from doing so. On how to define win/loss, it is matter of how one looks at it. Our acceptance of China's occupation of Tibet to me was a loss, so until China has these lands under their regime, it remains a loss for us. Also, I seek to deliberately turn the tables and want India to give up its status quo stances, with the notion that as long as our LAC is defended we are good. It may be good enough but it is not good...On size of SF, there is a demand by many to have a dedicated SF command and it being division sized from the current 8 batallions in IA. Our SFF are under trained and under exploited at this time, a clear area of opportunity. None of the offensive opportunities i am articulating are near term.
Last edited by ShauryaT on 16 Apr 2017 22:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Singha » 16 Apr 2017 13:41

Er the chinese did not stop at tawang in 1962. They stopped somewhere between bomdila and tezpur

My grandparents, father and all siblings evacuated from tezpur to guwahati..lakhs of rural civilians walked away on foot.

Wiki

The PLA penetrated close to the outskirts of Tezpur, Assam, a major frontier town nearly fifty kilometres from the Assam-North-East Frontier Agency border.[21] The local government ordered the evacuation of the civilians in Tezpur to the south of the Brahmaputra River, all prisons were thrown open, and government officials who stayed behind destroyed Tezpur's currency reserves in anticipation of a Chinese advance

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby kapilrdave » 16 Apr 2017 13:44

DavidD wrote:
hnair wrote:DavidD, you too do not seem to be getting it. "China trying to destroy India" is not what is worrying. If anything, the heading of thid thread should tell you how worrying it is for us. So that is not something that this forum has any doubts on. Over at Tibet, Indian military and intelligence can deal with whatever the CMC can throw, at a technological or strategic level. At this point in history, at least. Plus India has finally ventured out in creating strategic alliances with all of china's neighbors (except North Korea), unlike the transactional one that China is striking

It is that Chinese leadership's shortsightedness can setback both countries' ascendancy and turn what could have been a complementary role into something that submerges Asia back into the second rung. The bloodshed cycles is not something that has to happen again.


I think you're being naive. I can't think of an instance of two great powers forming complementary rather than adversarial roles. It's "us" vs. "them", remember. Some may think it's sad that the human race has been unable to evolve past that, but I'm resigned to the possibility that perhaps this is simply what nature demands--competition and survival of the fittest. Humans are perhaps the greatest species in mass murdering each other, but maybe this is literally what made us humans, a species that dominate the planet?


Another example of barbaric thinking. Bharat being a great civilization lived happily for thousands of years with a wide variety of Janapadas and ruling clans. Imperialism came in very late (late in the context of the length of the history) in the Hindu kings. Wars were fought mainly to prove a point.

Humans CAN live peacefully if they are civilized.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Singha » 16 Apr 2017 13:52

Ever since days of shi huangdi i believe cheen has had a model of either 1 or 2 all inclusive empires or great chaos. Whether those chaos were indo european type patchwork of small kingdoms or stateless one cannot say since shi huangdiji onwards tight control of history was kept via official accounts.

So a vast centralized kingdom with tight control is not a ccp invention its their long term model

Also the hans seem to have spread their genes all around by wiping out competing male pools in the south and taking charge of the women. Hence the famed homogenity over a vast india sized area with only some leftover ethnic pools tucked along the myanmar cambodia belt.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby nam » 16 Apr 2017 14:31

shiv wrote:Having said that there are two factors we need to recall
1. The Chinese ability to move forces along their highways - which though long, and sometimes arduous, are still a big asset
2. Chinese missile forces for random punishment are an unknown quantity to me

As against this is the fact that logistics lines get longer and longer for the Chinese in Western Tibet and in the movement of large forces - the Chinese ability to have acclimatized men ready is questionable. That is presently an unknown quantity to me. Special force insertion and paratroops are possible - but that is a different issue of airfields and air logistics.


Mountains on our side is quite a advantage. BM are not useful for targeting forces in mountains, specially if they are in reverse slope. Same applies for MBRL. So the mountains have nullified the BM/CM advantage of the Chinese.

BM/CM can target static targets, however as Trump Syria attack showed, you need lots of them. So we need to distribute our forces, have lots of targets for Chinese BM to attack. CMs can be tacked with CIWS.

You need artillery & airforce to fight in the mountains and this is where IAF needs to dominate the area. We can fire MBRL from the mountains and the Chinese will have tough time finding them.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Paul » 16 Apr 2017 14:43

Did the PLA cross Brahmaputra in 62? Some people said they did.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Singha » 16 Apr 2017 14:56

They did not. They stopped in arunachal short of entering the assam valley plains.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Singha » 16 Apr 2017 15:51

It took a month though to reach from thag la to near tezpur due to hard terrain and lulls in fighting. They walked various mountain trails and carried all supplies in perhaps by mules. Not sure how mortar and artillery was piped in the ammo is heavy. After se la was bypassed was there any battle at all or the bypassed units went xcountry to indian lines or got captured

I would like too see a map of eastern front lines of advance timelines and unit strength on both sides.


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