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Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

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Deans
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Deans » 18 Jan 2018 11:00

I spent some time in Nov, visiting Sikkim (North and Nathula) and the Siliguri area.
IA is deployed well forward in all sectors of the LAC -incl with armored vehicles. Supplies have also been brought closer to the LAC, so interdicting roads in a conflict will have limited utility for China. There was road building/ widening going on at a frantic pace. Doklam was possibly the best thing to happen to us in terms of boosting our readiness and improving infrastructure along the border. I informally spoke to men from different regiments and all seemed confident about kicking PLA ass.

Even if the PLA deploys a whole division in Doklam, it will have negligible offensive potential and will find it difficult to defend against IA attacking from multiple axis.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby ArjunPandit » 18 Jan 2018 11:24

Rohit Vats on twitter
1. With respect to recent reports and satellite pictures, Chinese have simply made permanent their earlier temporary infra on the plateau. But mind you - the India-China dispute was NOT about Chinese presence on Doklam. It was about road being extended+
2. from area opposite Doka La towards Jhampheri ridge. Chinese already had a track coming opposite to Doka La - they were trying to extend that to Jhampheri ridge towards south and we objected to this NEW activity. Satellite images show+
3. + show that Chinese have widened their EXISTING tracks and made new infra in places where they were ALREADY present. Plus, new troops. Same images show that they HAVE NOT made any effort to extend the road towards Jhampheri ridge - the original point of dispute. +
4. + And mind you, it is not for India to object to Chinese build-up on Doklam. That is for Bhutanese to do as area is disputed between Bhutan and China. We objected last time because change in status quo impacted us. So, is this recent development worrisome for India?+
5. + Before I answer that, let me add that some of the analysis about 'type' & 'strength' of Chinese troop presence seems as exaggeration to me. For eg - the point about presence of 1 or 2 Mechanized Units on the plateau. That would be 80-100 Infantry fighting vehicles (IFVs)+
6. + What good are IFVs in this terrain? And where is the space for their maneuver? Look at it this way - these vehicles will be in open and every inch of Doklam Plateau can & will be plastered by Indian artillery. There is no better target than a bunched armor column
7. + Coming to question about impact on India - well, it will simply make overt an otherwise covert threat. India sits favorably in terms of troop strength and terrain advantage. IMO, this troop presence is more of a show-of-force after getting drubbed by Indians earlier +
8, + And there is one more angle - for a long time, Chinese have got away with putting very few boots on ground against India because of how we treated the Chinese - 7 feet tall giants! India on the other hand had has massive troop presence along the entire border. +
9. + But because the Chinese knew that it is they who'll always have the initiative, they got away with bluster. But not any longer. They've realized NOW that Indians will not simply roll over and say yes. That is what happened in Doklam earlier. Now, they'll have to match us+
10+ with boots on the ground. Next time they do another Doklam, they'll have to come prepared to ensure they don't get caught off--guard. This raises the cost for the Chinese. And brings to forth an otherwise hidden threat.
11. + with boots on the ground. Next time they do another Doklam, they'll have to come prepared to ensure they don't get caught off--guard. This raises the cost for the Chinese. And brings to forth an otherwise hidden threat.
12. I will put out an article on this by tonight.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby pankajs » 18 Jan 2018 11:30

^^
Agree with RV on all points.

With a single and highly risky entry point, no maneuvering space and no were to run or hide the Chinese formation on the plateau is like fish in a barrel.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby pankajs » 18 Jan 2018 11:43

Sinche La - The entry point to the plateau from the Chinese side. Orientation South at the top i.e Chinese terrotiry at the bottom of the map. As marked on my Google Earth.
Image

Check the road leading up to the Sinche La pass. A cave in on one mountain side is enough to isolate the Chinese deployment on the plateau except to air supply and close all exits.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby pankajs » 18 Jan 2018 11:49

Same view tilted further to give an idea of the approach terrain to the pass and the plateau.

Image

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby pankajs » 18 Jan 2018 11:52

Another view of the approach to the plateau.

Image

Manish_P
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Manish_P » 18 Jan 2018 11:56

ArjunPandit wrote:Rohit Vats on twitter
...
12. I will put out an article on this by tonight.


Really miss this poster on BRF forums..

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Philip » 18 Jan 2018 12:49

Pankaj,from your excellent find/pics,it then appears that the Chinese have to crawl a long way upto the plateau from their side.Is their road building/infrastructure then meant to be able to stockpile eqpt. and have facilities for large no. of troops there on a permanent basis,given the vulnerability of ascending to the plateau?

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby pankajs » 18 Jan 2018 12:53

I can't answer for the Chinese but stockpiling without space for maneuverability on top of the plateau also makes them highly vulnerable to a arty barrage.

Also a compliment of SAM/MANPADS will make air Heli based re-supply untenable. Any decent SAM positioned just back of the Indian position at Doka La will cover the entire plateau.

Doka La to Sinche La is ~ 5 km as the crow flies.
Image

nam
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby nam » 18 Jan 2018 13:13

The article may be blowing up the situation, however we need such "red dragon on our doorstep" reports. Helps to keep our slow moving government machinery on its toes.

Just like the Swedes are preparing for an upcoming Russian invasion...

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Trikaal » 18 Jan 2018 13:43

So as long as chinese do not build road, india will not interfere. Road seems to be our red line. I still feel we are being too passive. Chinese will wait for an opening. At the first sign of weakness, they will rush in and build their road. In the mean time, they are building up the rest of the infrastructure. India is well within its right to march in and dismantle all infrastructure in disputed lands. Kick the chinese out of bhutan.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby rrao » 18 Jan 2018 14:24

Full-Fledged Chinese Military Complex In Doklam, Show Satellite Pics

Satellite images available in the public domain and shot in December indicate that the Chinese never stopped their infrastructure buildup in the region. Just 81 metres from an Indian post, the Chinese have constructed proper structures.
All India | Written by Vishnu Som | Updated: January 17, 2018 19:11 IST
http://www.ndtv.com

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby rrao » 18 Jan 2018 14:28

Image

nam
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby nam » 18 Jan 2018 14:48

Deans wrote:I spent some time in Nov, visiting Sikkim (North and Nathula) and the Siliguri area.
IA is deployed well forward in all sectors of the LAC -incl with armored vehicles. Supplies have also been brought closer to the LAC, so interdicting roads in a conflict will have limited utility for China. There was road building/ widening going on at a frantic pace. Doklam was possibly the best thing to happen to us in terms of boosting our readiness and improving infrastructure along the border. I informally spoke to men from different regiments and all seemed confident about kicking PLA ass.

Even if the PLA deploys a whole division in Doklam, it will have negligible offensive potential and will find it difficult to defend against IA attacking from multiple axis.


This is why like the Chinis teaching us a lesson regularly. In a decade Doklam incident may be forgotten, however it would the force that laid down the foundation of our future military power. We are gearing up to face the future superpower of the world. Also provides the investment in infra in NE, which was neglected so far. For the better we will stop comparing our power with the donkey in the west.

This is equivalent to the US-Soviet rivalry. The excuse which gave them tremendous technology and military power.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby rrao » 18 Jan 2018 14:52


Singha
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Singha » 18 Jan 2018 15:28

India needs to step up and build bhutans military into a agile and formidable force. pump them up and give them/fund them whatever they want for free, including ELINT and recon assets. its not just doklam, cheen is nibbling some areas in the far north too...areas where we not nearby to help.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby pankajs » 18 Jan 2018 15:30

Won't work. Not enough Bhutanese to defend its borders. It has to depend on the benevolence of its neighbors.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 18 Jan 2018 22:26

Doklam latest - my take
https://youtu.be/y15iiyIbIus

Philip
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Philip » 19 Jan 2018 01:41

Tx. Shiva.Great work.You've answered the big Q, why Doklam.The future annexation of Bhutan by any means.The Nepalese royal family was massacred in a conspiracy, the surviving greedy royals disgraced and the last Hindu kingdom eliminated leaving a vacuum occupied by the pro-Chinese "Communists.

The Buddhist kingdom of Bhutan is next on the list after the fall of Tibet, where the Dalai Lamas held sway many decades ago.China is usurping Buddhism globally and pretending to be its protector.With the Panchen Lama in virtual custody, a puppet, it waits patiently for the DL to pass on.If Bhutan is brought into the pro-Chinese camp by any means,applying military pressure on its borders,"Southern Tibet", Ar. Pradesh which they openly covet, will be highly vulnerable let alone cutting off the entire NEast with the increased threat to the Siliguri corridor.

China has to be stopped at the Himalays by land, in the ICS at sea, and inside its airspace by the IAF.It is using its clout financial and military muscle, to coax foreign states esp those in the Iittorals to become its proxies and complete the encirclement of India.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 13 Feb 2018 09:45

Chinese overland rocket launches cause boosters to fall on houses
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index ... msg1787409
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Philip
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Philip » 13 Feb 2018 11:15

Chins repeatedly warning (India) against intervening in the Maldives.A concerted JV plan to deflect intl. condemnation of the despotic regime is on with token releases of a few MPs.Attacks against the ousted former leader denying a Chin "takeaway".We're fast losing the game in the Maldives.I am very disappointed with the inaction and indecision of the NDA. Timing is the key.The moment the despot threw democracy into the sea was when we should've acted with the CJ of the SC appealing to us for help.Each day the despot and Chins are regaining their brutal grip on the situ and country.Does Mr.Modi want to go down in history as "the man who lost the Maldives"?


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