Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

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adityadange
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby adityadange » 17 Jan 2017 19:53

I initially had good laugh on chinese claim but then as i read the discussion i did some thinking. Shiv sir you wanted this to be on serious lines so here it is:
Although my point may be laughable i would say theoretically 48h is doable. how feasible/practical/realistic it is, i really dont know. With due respect to all of you, everybody has overlooked one direction: Nepal.
Please take a look at delhi from india-nepal border. delhi is approximately 300km from Bhimdatta town in Nepal. Most of the terrain their is plains and only ganga river is there to cross. My guess is indian forces does not have strong presence along Nepal border and it would take some time to concentrate along delhi-bhimdatt axis. If chinese enter from there they are likely to face minimum resistance. Somehow if chinese manage to airdrop their tanks/IFV/jeeps/equipments etc in good number and make advance towards delhi 300 km in 48 hours is doable.
Now how once can achieve this:
# paradrop at bhimdatt
- make secret agreement with nepal for dropping equipment
- voilate nepali airspace.
- establish air superiority along bhimdatt-gunji(another town in nepal near india-nepal-china junction) axis. place long range SAMs. this is doable as chinese town burand is nearby gunji and has good road connectivity

#avoid indian resistance
- initiate fake attack in ladakh so forces in north are tied up there
- initiate fake attack in north east so forces in bengal/sikkim tied there as well
- indian army will take some time to mobilize and reach this area (possibly from jaipur/bhopal/punjab)
- thus less no of troops available to fight
- give fighter cover to advancing PLA troops (this seems more difficult to me as no chinese airbase seems in the vicinity for fighter ops)

#ensure logistic supply
- make secret agreement with nepal for logistics
- voilate nepali airspace.
- establish air superiority along delhi-bhimdatt-gunji corridor with SAM and fighters possibly from nepali airspace
- use indian infrastructure as much as possible

now my assumptions:
- our radar network facing nepal is not as strong as west border
- chinese planes fly over nepal so avoid detection by indians
- indians wont violate nepalese airspace at least during initial hours.

If this can be done then 10h & 48h timelines can be achieved. but does chinese are really capable to do this? do they have enough transporter planes? do they have enough leverage on nepal?- i dont know.
Yes this plan seems highly optimistic and maybe gurus like rohitvats etc will be in better position to comment on this.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby UlanBatori » 17 Jan 2017 20:02

rohitvats wrote:^^^All of those names are not Chinese in origin. Their origination is in the local language - whether Ladakhi or Balti.
Exactly. What exactly are these local languages? Like Urdu is Local Language of the Sindhu nadi? "Oh! Alexander The Great (Sikandar The Mad) called it The INDUS". These are terms imposed by ignorant savage invaders. ppl contaminated by foreign influence. Time to change these. BTW, "Tibet" is NOT the name in the local language of long back. I wonder if Nepal is either. Maybe Tamarlane The Genocidal called it that from his stinking cave in Ulan Bator or wherever.
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby A_Gupta » 17 Jan 2017 20:02

I'm thinking some changshang-shivering is going on in China. They are contemplating a belligerent Trump and worrying that while their attention and forces are focused around the South China Sea, the treacherous Hindus might attempt to adjust the borders a little bit. Not a whole lot; not enough to trigger an all-out war, but to enough to establish new facts on the ground more favorable for future defense or offense.

Yes, Hindu dhoti-shiverers know that they are too timid to actually take advantage of an adversary's difficulties; hiding that timidity behind the facade of being dharmic. But who knows, the Indian tiger might wake up. Given what appeared to be a weak hand, India managed to divide Pakistan in 1971, defying the US of A, and China (of course, it too was much weaker back then). So the Chinese dragon is farting pre-emptive fire, because it cannot be sure.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Lalmohan » 17 Jan 2017 20:20

UlanBatori wrote: Maybe Tamarlane The Genocidal called it that from his stinking cave in Ulan Bator or wherever.


From his grand palace in Samarkand the Golden

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby UlanBatori » 17 Jan 2017 20:21

Thanks! I wondered about how an ignorant savage could have come out of a hallowed and gentle place like Ulan Bator. The cave was probably turned into a palace by slave labor and loot from India, nothing grand about it.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Lalmohan » 17 Jan 2017 20:23

his ancestors were sprung from the loins of the Great Khan between the Onon and Kerulen rivers, on the steppe between the Altai and Khingan ranges

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Lalmohan » 17 Jan 2017 20:24

UlanBatori wrote:The cave was probably turned into a palace by slave labor and loot from India, nothing grand about it.


literally true

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby tandav » 17 Jan 2017 20:52

Pratyush wrote:If the PLA can move an invasion force across Karakorum highway undetected. Then we deserve to get our backside kicked.


I don't think they will do this by stealth but will be more or less open but officially denied. What would India do if this happens. Attack Pakistan while they are trickling in the Chinese forces via the Kashgar Gwadar Highway into garrisons co-located with the Pakistani forces?

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby A_Gupta » 17 Jan 2017 20:58

Blocking the Karakoram Highway by triggering a landslide or blowing up a tunnel should not be too difficult I hope.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 17 Jan 2017 21:00

srin wrote:
Please also include the possibility of coming through Nepal or Bhutan or Myanmar, where the local forces may not be strong enough or unwilling to confront the Chinese, despite terrain advantages. For instance, Chumbi valley - Bhutan - Siliguri is a possibility.

Of course. But it would be silly to do this before looking at where India and China abut each other. There is a lot of work and let me remind everyone - in the days of Googal yearth - a lot of information, is available free to anyone with a kampootar and internet connection

Clearly 99.9999% of Indians and probably 99% of BRfites have not actually looked at the borders in detail despite having 1-2 meter resolution technicolor images with terrain and elevation of the whole area.I find that BRFites spend a whole ot more time looking at our own bases and our own airfields more than the India China border. And yet everyone seems to be fully aware of how and why we are going to get our asses whupped. Weird.
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 17 Jan 2017 21:08

adityadange wrote:I initially had good laugh on chinese claim but then as i read the discussion i did some thinking. Shiv sir you wanted this to be on serious lines so here it is:
Although my point may be laughable i would say theoretically 48h is doable.

It is doable in 6 hours. That is why I started this thread. But what they do after they land in India is what I wanted people to apply their minds to and also how and what can be used by the Chinees if they insist on doing what I think is an idiotic plan. In 8 hours we can also land paratroops near Beijing if they do what I have said below

adityadange wrote:If this can be done then 10h & 48h timelines can be achieved. but does chinese are really capable to do this? do they have enough transporter planes? do they have enough leverage on nepal?- i dont know.
Yes this plan seems highly optimistic and maybe gurus like rohitvats etc will be in better position to comment on this.

Thanks for attempting to think this through.

In theoretical terms it is very simple. Assume that whole of India is busy doing Iftar party and not paying attention. PM Rahul Gandhi and DM Kejriwal have turned off the main switch of all air defences of India. Defence of India on leave. Load 500 men in 10 Il 76s with some armoured cars - fly across Nepal/India for about 1000 km or less and para drop them outside Delhi.

Then what?

How many aircraft do they have?

Which airfields will they use?

What is the payload of each aircraft?

What vehicles do they carry?

What will they do after landing 500 men near Delhi

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 17 Jan 2017 21:14

tandav wrote:
Pratyush wrote:If the PLA can move an invasion force across Karakorum highway undetected. Then we deserve to get our backside kicked.


I don't think they will do this by stealth but will be more or less open but officially denied. What would India do if this happens. Attack Pakistan while they are trickling in the Chinese forces via the Kashgar Gwadar Highway into garrisons co-located with the Pakistani forces?

A response will have to start by making this information public and demanding that it is stopped failing which India will "take appropriate measures" There could be many things including intrusions into Chinese territory in other areas forcing them to move forces to those areas. Recall that the Indian border with Pakistan is heavily monitored and defended and no one will have an easy time getting into India by that route. In fact Chinese logistics lines in that direction are really long.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby abhik » 17 Jan 2017 21:29

BTW I had a question for the gurus and (armchair) generals here: We hear about China having developing/deploying very long range anti ship ballistic missiles, but its always in the context of China's "Anti-Access" strategy vis a vis the US navy in its immediate neighbourhood. But what stops them from using it against IN ships in Bay of Bengal etc, shouldn't we be shibbering in our dhotis?

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 17 Jan 2017 21:52

abhik wrote:BTW I had a question for the gurus and (armchair) generals here: We hear about China having developing/deploying very long range anti ship ballistic missiles, but its always in the context of China's "Anti-Access" strategy vis a vis the US navy in its immediate neighbourhood. But what stops them from using it against IN ships in Bay of Bengal etc, shouldn't we be shibbering in our dhotis?

The choices for us should be very clear if we apply our minds
1. Shiver and give up
2. Escalate and try an get revenge by sinking their assets
3. If we are losing badly - recall that the Agony is designed for that

And since you asked this question, what do you (or anyone else) believe the Chinese would if we sank their aircraft carrier? I don't accept the answer that we can't do that.

The point really is to try and get out of this constant Indian mantra of fear of being kicked in our backsides and assuming Indian impotence - we never seem to get past that.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby sanjaykumar » 17 Jan 2017 22:16

Yes Phillip, FAS has some information on PLA airbases in Tibet. 14 or so with many landing strips. Non-hardened shelters.

I do not have locations yet.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 17 Jan 2017 22:23

When we talk about China sending men via Nepal or Myanamar or deep into India or India entering Tibet/China) logistics is crucial.

An entire thread had been started by me in 2010 to create awareness of that
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5700

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby A_Gupta » 17 Jan 2017 22:28

There is always the dossier defense.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby rsingh » 17 Jan 2017 23:14

Ahh late to join the fun. Chinese forgot that we also have Armed forces with proven record. What the hell they think that they will do all the preparation it invade India and we will just wait? Just declare Tibet an Independent country and XI will be mad dog biting himself. which country in world has guts to meet D Lama? We have him permanently living in India. That is biggest khujli they have and they are behaving irrationally. No body believe what Chinese say. Everybody is waiting for first shot to be fired. Chinese has no soft power in world. It has rouge nation in its circle of close friend and it is afraid of democracies. it is not that easy to attack India in order to solve China's internal problem. They may end -op by loosing Tibet, North Korea and those few places in ASEAN sea.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby rsingh » 17 Jan 2017 23:36

I never understood one thing. Why every now and then some X,Y,Z country is threatening India. We never invaded any country and never initiated war. Even Maldives,Lanka Bd and Nepal are against us on slightest pretext. Nepal is basically living off India. BD got independence with our help. Lanka is helped by Indian industry. If not India , they would be driving 3rd hand Renaut 306 and whole country turned into red-light district for white man. I think we have to show muscles,if we want to stay relevant.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby rsingh » 17 Jan 2017 23:45

Austin wrote:Why cant be we change the policy of Tibet part of China to Tibet is disputed area ?

Like how DT is questioning Taiwan one china policy ?


it need a small push,incentive from China. This will happen before first shot fired in any futur conflict. This is big gun for MEA. JMT

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby AdityaM » 18 Jan 2017 00:01

With reference to Indian Express Coup story, Delhi police had tried to delay the coup-ing army columns by placing road barricades.

Now after Chinese troops fly 10 tiring hours and para jump with their transport, they will be stumped by the DelhiPolice barricades on the national highway.

Anyways entry of heavy vehicles is banned in Delhi from 6am to 9pm.
Chinese therefore will have to time a raid coinciding with TV prime time hours.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby disha » 18 Jan 2017 01:13

^^ Chinese will paradrop on odd days.

The chinese recent "threat" is like the threat of Longewalla https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Longewala.

The only way they can succeed is take over the news stations of rNDTV types and announce that India has surrendered to Chinese (complete armistice) and the rudaalis on the tweeter and on this forum will ensure that they it comes true after due rona-dhona on the inefficiencies of the majority hindu lotus-eating army has been done.

IMHO., there were several fanboi posts from B'Desh in late 90s where they will marshall up some tanks and go to KalaiKunda and fire on the airbase and come back, thus defeating Indian defenses and thus the Indian armed forces.

The chinese threat was straight from there.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby disha » 18 Jan 2017 01:53

TKiran wrote:I have a different perspective altogether. There has been almost zero people to people contact between cheenees and Indians, so it was easy for cheenees to build propagandu that there is only one rival to be subjugated, aka ankil.


Talking about beepul to beepul contact., one of my own family (desi) speaks perfect mandarin. Once you speak perfect mandarin., you will realize that the chinese dragon is a just a puny lizard. The rest ho-hum about infrastructure this and bullet train that is just ho-hum.

Only cheen pasand #mediapimps gave serious credence to their latest fart. But again., cheen knows this and dhoti-wearing desis also know this., that in psy-ops when they put out a fart., desis will smell it like roses and when desis put out a lotus perfume - dhoti-shivering SDREs will call it gas.

Psychologically, we have already been defeated as of today.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby ramana » 18 Jan 2017 02:05

tsarkar & rohitvats, Also folks should be aware of Operation Checkerboard where Gen. Sunderji brought 10 divisions (300K soldiers) to the front in addition to the existing 3 divisions there.
And Operation Falcon

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Neela » 18 Jan 2017 02:21

This thread made me put myself in dushman's chappal and think .

Which of these two events would make me worry more.

- Hindus testing missile from Missile testing Lange
- Hindus suddenly clossing some bordels, hitting my fliend's camp which is close to CPEC. This when Hindus haven't done such a threshold-clossing in a long long time.

-----
Which infrastructure is China putting big money on and how much is it betting on it in the future?
Wouldn't have pink panty Pakis cried a river after surgical strikes. A possible " Aiyoo chini bhai, If Bhindians do this now, what would they do next.."?

Something is cooking.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby ramana » 18 Jan 2017 02:23

Shiv, do you remember the Jaguars over the Himalayas dropping cluster bombs over a PLA truck convoy? It was a UK magazine cover circa 1980s.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby SBajwa » 18 Jan 2017 02:33

It took us 3 days to travel from Delhi to Nanda Dev (chamoli district in Uttarakhand) in Summer (cannot travel at all in winter) on a Toyota Van., when traffic is opened from May - September. You go up to Haridwar - Rishikesh - Srinagar - Joshimath - on highway 7 that goes all the way to Tibet.

I am not sure whether tanks and heavy trucks can cross these bridges on Alaknanda - Bhagirthi, Mandakini and Ganga.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby anupmisra » 18 Jan 2017 02:34


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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby disha » 18 Jan 2017 05:04

Anupji' there is a difference above. If the Chinese had boasted that they will do '62 again and occupy Ladakh/Tawang or Sikkim/Arunachal Pradesh and threaten Assam and we will be hard pressed to remove them - then yes., we should take them very very seriously - as the above link on Vivek'j's analysis suggests.

However the boast is that they will be occupying Delhi in some hours and realised a video on it as well of how they will do it. That is a fart., and this thread to gather material so that dhoti-shiverers can be reassured to stop shivering in their dhotis itself indicates that their fart is being smelled as 'smell the roses/coffee' and hence that they are strong and we are just dhoti-wearers., since their spy-ops is succeeding.

Note that the dhoti-shiverers are not confined to BR alone., or rather they are mostly out of BR realm.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 18 Jan 2017 07:07

All of us learn geography from school books that show borders as line on maps. Most of us are not taught that pre-colonial boundaries that separated ancient nations were solid physical barriers to human movement. Anyone can see that a blue coloured patch indicating water around ye olde Englande or Sri Lanka is a physical barrier but no one asks why India and China were separate nations for centuries.

Googal is here to help. If you look at the "border" you find that over very large distances (hundreds of kilometers) the line is drawn through the tops of continuous mountain ranges that are over 4.5 to 5 kilometers high. These are humanly impassable for most part and even aircraft could barely get across even as recently as World War 2.

But there are a few gaps which have serves as major or minor passes. For most part these "passes" are river valleys that cut a path between China and India. Typically you find a river that is in the middle of a gorge which is surrounded on both sides by towering mountains. Of course we all study only in English and send our kids to Amreeka and later visit the sites there and are greatly impressed by the Grand Canyon. The Gaand Canyon is nothing compared to what the Himalayas are like - but none of us know about it because those who know speak Indian langauges, not Engliss

For example the Nort-Easternmost pass between India and China is a river valley that is situated at 1400 meters above sea leveland from here the mountains rise so steeply that just 5 km away are permafrost lined mountains 4500 meters high. This is more than 1.5 times the deepest depth of the Gaand Canyon. But who would know?

So roads are build in river valleys because it is relatively flat and serves as a natural path. Between such natural paths/passes are hundreds of km of mountains. And it is not as if the Chinese side of the river valley is at 1000 meters and the Indian side is 500 meters so they are shooting down at us. The river valley is relatively flat so if the river is flowing from China to India the altitude on the Chinese side may be 5-10 meters more than the Indian side.

When we shiver on the internet we are always looking at pictures of fancy weapons. We never ever talk about the most crucial aspects of any military campaign - terrain, weather and logistics. Only military folks do that and we are more dismissive of our military and more accepting of high-res colour photos of China made weapons

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby ShauryaT » 18 Jan 2017 07:19

shiv wrote:For example the Nort-Easternmost pass between India and China is a river valley that is situated at 1400 meters above sea leveland from here the mountains rise so steeply that just 5 km away are permafrost lined mountains 4500 meters high. This is more than 1.5 times the deepest depth of the Gaand Canyon. But who would know?
The name is Brahmaputra or Psong Po on Chinese side, I think. Anyways I was surfing on Google earth and trying to trace the origins of the Brahmaputra. just on Google earth it was gorgeous. Based on "historical" records, India can claim that valley no? Anyways, there is something called the big bend just before the river crosses the LAC to the Indian side and the river falls - i have read just the roar of that fall can be heard for many miles away on to the Indian side. Hope I can see it some day. Anyone here lucky enough?

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 18 Jan 2017 07:34

ShauryaT wrote:
shiv wrote:For example the Nort-Easternmost pass between India and China is a river valley that is situated at 1400 meters above sea leveland from here the mountains rise so steeply that just 5 km away are permafrost lined mountains 4500 meters high. This is more than 1.5 times the deepest depth of the Gaand Canyon. But who would know?
The name is Brahmaputra or Psong Po on Chinese side, I think. Anyways I was surfing on Google earth and trying to trace the origins of the Brahmaputra. just on Google earth it was gorgeous. Based on "historical" records, India can claim that valley no? Anyways, there is something called the big bend just before the river crosses the LAC to the Indian side and the river falls - i have read just the roar of that fall can be heard for many miles away on to the Indian side. Hope I can see it some day. Anyone here lucky enough?

If fact I am speaking of a small pass even further east of that

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby TKiran » 18 Jan 2017 08:24

Shiv sir, one humble request, please please please don't use "India and China separated by " etc, India and Tibet are neighbors, India and China were never neighbors throughout the history.

At least here in brf we should call "China proper", "China occupied Tibet ", " China occupied Xinjiang " as three provinces of China.
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Jan 2017 08:26

He means the Ramankutty Churam through which Fa Hien and Huien Tsang passed b4 they got too fat. Ramankutty was pretty thin and could pass through narrow canyons w/o his ass or belly getting stuck.
A modern infantry force might use skis and sleds to great advantage, allowing access through high snow/ice-covered passes that were inaccessible a few decades ago. Also, mountain goats with remote-tele-operated guns strapped to their backs. Those could wreak havoc on formations that are stuck in 1900s thinking about marching through river valleys.

For instance do a Googal dekho at Skardu. Deep curved river valley. Steep "impassable" cliffs all round, If one learns to negotiate paths along the cliffsides, one could do an end run around the fixed defences guarding access along the river valley and pee on their heads.

There are fancy Snowmobiles now, see James Bond for example. This is an aspect that requires a bit of dhoti-shivering, given that "our" side is known to have trouble finding shoes for our soldiers in a pinch. Maybe the Chinese have also mastered the art of power-hang-gliders as a mode of transport over the high mountain ridges. Wee Dong after all may be quite light.

That was the other story my Source told me. Apparently an Indian battalion in 1962 stationed themselves at the foot of a vertical cliff. Set out guards on all sides facing out, but confidently ignored the cliff. Chinese came down the cliffs with khukris and slashed a lot of throats before the force realized they were under attack. He described it as a massacre. I never heard of such a thing, but he evidently knows.

While the Chinese realities are vastly dimmer than the Chinese bragging, the situation on the Indian side is not so much better. We may THINK our forces have this and that as per advertisement, but what if the stuff never reached the troops, but was stolen way back?

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 18 Jan 2017 09:29

UlanBatori wrote:That was the other story my Source told me. Apparently an Indian battalion in 1962 stationed themselves at the foot of a vertical cliff. Set out guards on all sides facing out, but confidently ignored the cliff. Chinese came down the cliffs with khukris and slashed a lot of throats before the force realized they were under attack. He described it as a massacre. I never heard of such a thing, but he evidently knows.

While the Chinese realities are vastly dimmer than the Chinese bragging, the situation on the Indian side is not so much better. We may THINK our forces have this and that as per advertisement, but what if the stuff never reached the troops, but was stolen way back?

Ulan Batori - that story is probably true - but 1962 was no accident. It was incompetence at the highest levels and an assumption that this will be repeated 55 years later is unlikely IMO

Here is an excerpt from a book I am currently reading - about a situation where Indian soldiers were massacred en masse. You should ask your contact details of which unit and which battle he was talking about so we can see if there is a record of that and lessons learned. For too long we have weighed ourselves with the memories of 1962 without really asking if no lessons have been learned since then

Note particularly the statement:
"‘Yeh larai to maine pehli bar dekhi hai, saab, jisme hum nalle mein aur dushman upar pahar par (This is the first time I’ve seen a battle being planned where we are sitting in the valley while the enemy is holding the heights above us)."


"Even as Kaul outlined an ambitious attack plan to occupy the Thagla Ridge across the Nam Ka Chu, every officer and JCO present at the briefing knew the general’s plan was nonsensical. To Dashrath’s experienced ears, it sounded like the general was issuing orders for an advance the next morning across the river and up the Thagla slopes on the assumption that the Chinese did not exist.

All the officers were sitting in stunned silence as Kaul droned on, using impressive jargon that included terms like ‘positional warfare manoeuvre’, something neither Dashrath nor any of the others present had ever heard before. Niranjan Prasad was staring at his shoes the entire time, while Dalvi meekly tried to point out a few technical difficulties like limited ammunition, lack of snow clothing, artillery support and other factors. The corps commander, deeming them minor irritants, impatiently brushed them aside.

Having spelt out his objectives, the corps commander asked the assembled officers and JCOs if they had any questions. While the officers were still recovering from the shock of Kaul’s master plan, Subedar Dashrath Singh from 2 Rajput spoke up: ‘Agar izaazat ho to mein kuch poochna chahta hun (If I have your permission, I would like to ask a question).’ ‘Haan haan, saab, pooch kya poochna hai (Yes, yes, saab, ask what you want to).’ Dashrath, who had seen five years of close combat with the Japanese in Burma and had then fought in the Jammu and Kashmir Operations in 1948, said: ‘Yeh larai to maine pehli bar dekhi hai, saab, jisme hum nalle mein aur dushman upar pahar par (This is the first time I’ve seen a battle being planned where we are sitting in the valley while the enemy is holding the heights above us).’ ‘Yeh bhi pehli baar aapne dekha hoga ki koi general front line mein khara ho (This must also be the first time that you’re seeing a general on the front lines),’ was Kaul’s glib response. ‘Aapne apni baat to keh di, saab, lekin hamare jawaab nahi diya (You’ve said what you wanted to, sir, but you haven’t answered my question),’ said Dashrath. At this point Kaul lost his temper and demanded that the JCO be arrested on the spot and dismissed from service. While Niranjan Prasad and Dalvi tried to pacify the corps commander, Dashrath was quietly asked to leave the conference. The ‘attack’ that was launched the next morning came apart the moment the Chinese came forward to meet the 9 Punjab advance towards Tseng Jong." (from "1962: The War That Wasn't" by Shiv Kunal Verma)

shiv
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 18 Jan 2017 09:38

UlanBatori wrote:
For instance do a Googal dekho at Skardu. Deep curved river valley. Steep "impassable" cliffs all round, If one learns to negotiate paths along the cliffsides, one could do an end run around the fixed defences guarding access along the river valley and pee on their heads.

Then look at Arunachal Pradesh. The Chinese have built metalled roads on river beds right up to the border which everyone talks about as "Aiyoo - roads right up to the border" . Scan 5 km downriver and you find no road next to river on the Indian side. But look up on the mountainside you find these same paths in the mountainside leading to Indian army locations. Will provide labelled images - I marked them just yesterday
Last edited by shiv on 18 Jan 2017 09:40, edited 1 time in total.

Farooq
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Farooq » 18 Jan 2017 09:39

shiv wrote:
ShauryaT wrote:The name is Brahmaputra or Psong Po on Chinese side, I think. Anyways I was surfing on Google earth and trying to trace the origins of the Brahmaputra. just on Google earth it was gorgeous. Based on "historical" records, India can claim that valley no? Anyways, there is something called the big bend just before the river crosses the LAC to the Indian side and the river falls - i have read just the roar of that fall can be heard for many miles away on to the Indian side. Hope I can see it some day. Anyone here lucky enough?

If fact I am speaking of a small pass even further east of that


If you are talking of the pass on the Indo-Burma-Tibet border then that is Jachep La. The tributary flows into Lohit and as it exits in the plains, it crosses Bramhakund from where the name of the river Bramhaputra is derived.

shiv
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 18 Jan 2017 09:41

Farooq wrote:
shiv wrote:If fact I am speaking of a small pass even further east of that


If you are talking of the pass on the Indo-Burma-Tibet border then that is Jachep La.

Thanks that is probably it but I have been unable to find a name. Will look for that. This is where a metalled Chinese road - provincial road S 201 runs along river valleys for 200 km from the main Chinese highway G 318 and ends at the border and any Indian looking will note that there is no road on the Indian side. But up the mountain are small roads and a heavy Indian army presence.

Farooq
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Farooq » 18 Jan 2017 09:47

shiv wrote:
Farooq wrote:
If you are talking of the pass on the Indo-Burma-Tibet border then that is Jachep La.

Thanks that is probably it but I have been unable to find a name. Will look for that. This is where a metalled Chinese road - provincial road S 201 runs along river valleys for 200 km from the main Chinese highway G 318 and ends at the border and any Indian looking will note that there is no road on the Indian side. But up the mountain are small roads and a heavy Indian army presence.


Look at Google Earth/Maps - If the valley / pass goes east, north of Walong/Kibithoo then that is the Dichu Valley crossing into Tibet at Jachep La. First Metalled roads into Arunachal were built in this valley till Walong. There after Kutcha tracks exists. Opposite Kibithoo (north of border) is the Chinese Rima base.

Current Army Chief, Gen Rawat was CO of a unit based at Kibithoo some time back.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby rohitvats » 18 Jan 2017 09:51

ramana wrote:Shiv, do you remember the Jaguars over the Himalayas dropping cluster bombs over a PLA truck convoy? It was a UK magazine cover circa 1980s.


Well, its right there on BRF!

Image


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