Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

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Liu
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Liu » 03 Apr 2017 05:33

sanjaykumar wrote:Chinese do understand the difference between then and now, past and present?

Again Mongolia is the rightful inheritor of China, why be selective? Or is consistency against the CCP's directives?

if today mogolia still occupied/controlled china(just as Anglosaxon does so with USA/canada/Australia/Newzealand),Mogolia would surely insist its right to China(as Anglosaxon never consider retreat to europe and return the land to Native like American indians and Maori ).

Case is that Mogolia lost its control of china 700 years ago and later was annexed by imperial China for 200+ year( in fact the independence of outer mogolia was not acknowledged by major powers until WWII ended,and inner mogolia is still a part of China.

now it is obviously wiser of mogolians to consider how to keep (outer) Mogolia not be a part of china again ,instead of insist that china be a part of mogolia(lol),while inner mogolia is still a part of china.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Liu » 03 Apr 2017 05:48

NRao wrote:
After 17th or 18th century,china set up an indirect dominance in Tibet ,as Britain did with india


Thanks. Again. I am glad you agree that Tibet was never a part of China.


You see in free India we read history.

you are wrong.

case is that India once was a part of British empire( as Tibet was a part of imperial China).

after WW II,Britishmen retreated from india,so india got independence.

however,chinese did not retreated from tibet,and consolidated their dominance there instead,by setting up direct dominance after WW II.

So,india now is not a part of Britain anymore,but Tibet is still a part of China now.


is the clear amd simple history/reality so hard for you to accept?

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Liu » 03 Apr 2017 06:07

ranjan.rao wrote:
Liu wrote:well,
there is a huge difference.

that is, when in 1950s chinese took over Aksai Chin,chinese had nothing to expell there.

however,when british india took over Tawang in 1930s~1940s, they expelled Tibetan administrations there,which had worked there for hundreds of years.

So by that LOGIC the part of pangong tso that China is illegally OCCUPYING will be returned to us, because we were "expelled from there"
Also, did we expel you from tawang in 1940? otherwise why did you leave it. Now india has been administering it for 70 years so our recent administration doesnt matter.
Are you going to ask chinatown in new york 100 years down the line as as the local counseller there is going to be of chinese origin? I was thinking of islamabad first, but then i realized you dont need to as you're already renting it.
It is in these moments i miss our local yak herder from mongolia where he adds lols to the subjects of empe-lol xi Gin Ping
Chi-irs

I know little about Panggong tso(it sound like a tibetan place,because “tso' means 'lake' in tibetans).


even if the expell in Panggong tso you refer to were truth, what would your suggestion be?
Tawang for Panggong tso?

I would accept that ,personally speaking,on the precondition the expell in Panggong tso were the truth.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby NRao » 03 Apr 2017 06:14

Liu wrote:
NRao wrote:
Thanks. Again. I am glad you agree that Tibet was never a part of China.


You see in free India we read history.

you are wrong.

case is that India once was a part of British empire( as Tibet was a part of imperial China).

after WW II,Britishmen retreated from india,so india got independence.

however,chinese did not retreated from tibet,and consolidated their dominance there instead,by setting up direct dominance after WW II.

So,india now is not a part of Britain anymore,but Tibet is still a part of China now.


is the clear amd simple history/reality so hard for you to accept?


Like Trump you and China are good at alt reality. As usual your history starts when you want it to start. The British were wise to leave India. And unfortunately the Tibetians are not as strong as Indians were. But, don't worry. History always corrects itself. Tibet will be free andChina will be in bondage.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby sanjaykumar » 03 Apr 2017 06:19

Liu wrote:
sanjaykumar wrote:Chinese do understand the difference between then and now, past and present?

Again Mongolia is the rightful inheritor of China, why be selective? Or is consistency against the CCP's directives?

if today mogolia still occupied/controlled china(just as Anglosaxon does so with USA/canada/Australia/Newzealand),Mogolia would surely insist its right to China(as Anglosaxon never consider retreat to europe and return the land to Native like American indians and Maori ).

Case is that Mogolia lost its control of china 700 years ago and later was annexed by imperial China for 200+ year( in fact the independence of outer mogolia was not acknowledged by major powers until WWII ended,and inner mogolia is still a part of China.

now it is obviously wiser of mogolians to consider how to keep (outer) Mogolia not be a part of china again ,instead of insist that china be a part of mogolia(lol),while inner mogolia is still a part of china.




Thank you Liu, that tells me my argument is a valid one, for you have not refuted it, but only tried to obfuscate it.

Anyhoo, I hope we will share a drink one day. When you are a free man.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby ManSingh » 03 Apr 2017 06:35

Liu wrote:
ranjan.rao wrote:Liu, Was chinese administration there in Aksai Chin before 60s?



before 1950s, neither china/tibet nor Britain/india had any administration in Aksai Chin.

at that time,Aksai chin was a uninhibinated area as a natural buffer between china/tibet and Britain/india.

According to a boundary line(Johnson line) unilaterally written by britishmen, Britishmen seemed to think Aksai Chin should belong to British india.

however, Johnson line was just a unilateral one,and Chinese/tibetan never accepted it.(in fact,Britishmen even never officially noticed it to china/tibet)


Morever, Britain/India had never set up any administration in Aksai Chin ,after Johnson line was unilaterally written on maps.

In fact,Aksai Chin remained uninhibinated without any administration (like the moon today?)before in 1950s Chinese set up one highways and other administrations there.

because india had not any administration in Aksai Chin, india(including Nehru)did not know the existence of Chinese highway in Aksai Chin,until Chinese papers celebrated the finish of the highway.


You are wrong. India ( or empires that now form India ) has historically had administrative control over Aksai chin, Chinese Occupied Kashmir, POK and any of the areas that now fall under CPEC.

Here is the map of the sikh empire( 1800s ) at it's peak:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikh_Empire#/media/File:Sikh_Empire_tri-lingual.jpg

Look at the top left border of the yellow area in the map with Afghanistan in the map ( COK ) and the top right ( covers more than half of aksai chin and extends into current western tibet ).

So by your logic Aksai chin, COK and parts of western tibet have historically been "India". Is this proof enough?

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 03 Apr 2017 06:44

Liu wrote:So,india now is not a part of Britain anymore,but Tibet is still a part of China now.


is the clear amd simple history/reality so hard for you to accept?


Tibet is part of China like Megan Fox is part of me. I know she is part of me but I can't get to her easily. You guys have to carry your own oxygen with you to Tibet. In case you want to breathe.. :rotfl:

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 03 Apr 2017 07:04

When Mao annexed Tibet he was smart enough to point out that the Chinese soldiers should carry their own food because if they sucked up local supplies - everyone would fall short and the local population would be even more hostile. It is not easy to either go into, or live in Tibet and that can be seen by the fact that China has a population of 1.4 billion and Tibet 4 million- 0.003%. The Chinese are mainly interested in the mineral resources of Tibet - and are trying to extend their occupation by making Souther Tibet (and Xinjiang, for that matter) tourist destinations for Han Chinese.. But there are serious internal security issues and the Chinese military presence in these areas is not simply about India - it is about internal security as well.

However these things will not come out so easily as fat claims of 1000 years of history. Tibet was in independent Kingdom for most of its history and surrounding nations like India, Nepal and Bhutan were dealing with Tibet and not the Chinese. No need to talk any more. The time for talk got over by 1962. We also need to kick the Chinese & their CPEC out of Pakistan occupied Kashmir and that part of Kashmir that China's prostitute Pakistan has given away.

But my focus has been on the east because Indians are least knowledgeable about those areas.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby sanjaykumar » 03 Apr 2017 07:33

The Chinese are mainly interested in the mineral resources of Tibet - and are trying to extend their occupation by making Souther Tibet (and Xinjiang, for that matter) tourist destinations for Han Chinese.. But there are serious internal security issues and the Chinese military presence in these areas is not simply about India - it is about internal security as well.


Internal security? The word is occupation.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 03 Apr 2017 07:52

sanjaykumar wrote: The Chinese are mainly interested in the mineral resources of Tibet - and are trying to extend their occupation by making Souther Tibet (and Xinjiang, for that matter) tourist destinations for Han Chinese.. But there are serious internal security issues and the Chinese military presence in these areas is not simply about India - it is about internal security as well.


Internal security? The word is occupation.

Yes. But I was surprised to see Chinese official statements about the new western military zone admitting that it would be about "internal security" as well as border issues with India.

For all the tears shed about Tibetan monasteries in Tawang that the Chinese are so worried about - it is easy to see how the Chinese have willy-nilly razed many residential/small farm areas across Tibet and replaced them with community urban housing. The remains of old neighbourhoods and villages can be seen on Google Earth as well as the nearby new housing. Of course this is hardly complete because I think the Chinese have found it difficult to coerce Tibetans - which is why they "secularly" allowed more than one child. Besides normal lowlanders can hardly survive happily in North Tibet.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby abhik » 03 Apr 2017 08:39

More than mineral wealth it is the fresh water resources that the Chinese want control over.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Atmavik » 03 Apr 2017 10:48


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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 04 Apr 2017 07:05

Atmavik wrote:An introduction to Tibet

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHdZMcmQoEx8K5yeUpajptA

Thanks for posting.

Tibetan village settlements are easy to recognise on Google Earth. Also easily recognizable are settlements that have been allowed to go into ruin - with nearby built-up towns where the people have been shifted - tearing them away from their environment. What the cultural revolution did to China was to actually remove all culture from the Chinese - leaving them with a b@stardized version where their only aim is to ape the west (which has itself lost its way on so many counts). First they aped communism, then they started aping western profligate capitalism and the wanton rape of environment. The earth is an interconnected microbiome in which your body and its microbes are connected to the outside - the trees, fauna and the soil and what is underneath. If you cover up the soil with concrete and tarmac you are changing the fundamental nature of the environment as it has evolved. Ironically the idea of "catching up" with the west is an acknowledgement of western superiority and the inferior status of one's own history and culture.

Everything is being copied - the colonization, the brutality and the exploitation using military and economic superiority. They claim to be doing things with "Chinese characteristics" but I put it to you that if you put a blond wig on Xi Jinping he can then be claimed to be a Trump with Chinese characteristics.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Atmavik » 04 Apr 2017 08:25

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9ocogSyFg4

Rajya Sabha TV discussion on His holiness Dali Lama's visit to Tawang. one of the issue is the re-incarnation of the next dalai lama.

The current dalai lama has said that the next incarnation cannot be born in the Occupied territory and the chinnese want the other way

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby DavidD » 04 Apr 2017 08:54

abhik wrote:More than mineral wealth it is the fresh water resources that the Chinese want control over.


Yea, the minerals aren't so important. Water, as well as a strategic buffer between China and India. Good fences make for good neighbors, and there is no better fence than the Himalayas and the Tibetan plateau. Think about all the wars between regional powers throughout history around the world, it's pretty incredible that there's been almost no conflict between two of the greatest historical powers situated so close together, and it's all thanks to Tibet. I mean, what's the biggest conflict between China and India? '62? In the grand scheme things that short war is but a blip in history, and it ain't no coincidence that India and China have never had a clash of civilizations that would've inevitably ended in tragedy for millennia.


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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby TSJones » 05 Apr 2017 06:57

Everything is being copied - the colonization, the brutality and the exploitation using military and economic superiority. They claim to be doing things with "Chinese characteristics" but I put it to you that if you put a blond wig on Xi Jinping he can then be claimed to be a Trump with Chinese characteristics.


trumpster has done all of that?

in less than 90 days?

:eek:

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 05 Apr 2017 08:02

TSJones wrote:
Everything is being copied - the colonization, the brutality and the exploitation using military and economic superiority. They claim to be doing things with "Chinese characteristics" but I put it to you that if you put a blond wig on Xi Jinping he can then be claimed to be a Trump with Chinese characteristics.


trumpster has done all of that?

in less than 90 days?

:eek:

It's not about what Trump has done. It's about what the Chinese have not yet copied. Personally I have no opinion, good or bad about Trump and can't understand what the fuss is all about.

Having said that I am fascinated by the "meta-game" that is being played up between China and the US while citizens of countries with wimp/pipsqueak mentality like India watch, piss in their pants and pass "How I wish" comments. The US has - for several decades now prided itself on its massive industrial capacity and innovation and has used those facts as something to be taken for granted as the benchmarks of a world leader. China is emulating that and telling its people "We are now going to be greater than the US". It hardly matters whether that boast is right or wrong but we Indians who view our own nation as one of pipsqueak weaklings are really browning our undies watching this game

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby shiv » 07 Apr 2017 08:51

Cross post from China Mil thread


I am glad Shiv Aroor has got things moving in what I see as a positive direction. However I had a critical comment to make about the article - which I have posted
I am happy to see this site expand to be a good source for defence related material that I have now followed since the ’65 war.

With respect – I read too many articles that carry the standard words that this development is “very worrying”. Why is it worrying? What is it that the Chinese are expected to do? A short analysis and explanation of that would be more informative than the mere fact that something is being built. I must point out that it is rather irritating to read one paragraph that says that a noose is being put around India’s neck and the next paragraph that says that India should send “a strong message” Surely a person with a noose around his neck gains nothing by sending messages strong or weak.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Liu » 07 Apr 2017 13:33

ManSingh wrote:
Liu wrote:

before 1950s, neither china/tibet nor Britain/india had any administration in Aksai Chin.

at that time,Aksai chin was a uninhibinated area as a natural buffer between china/tibet and Britain/india.

According to a boundary line(Johnson line) unilaterally written by britishmen, Britishmen seemed to think Aksai Chin should belong to British india.

however, Johnson line was just a unilateral one,and Chinese/tibetan never accepted it.(in fact,Britishmen even never officially noticed it to china/tibet)


Morever, Britain/India had never set up any administration in Aksai Chin ,after Johnson line was unilaterally written on maps.

In fact,Aksai Chin remained uninhibinated without any administration (like the moon today?)before in 1950s Chinese set up one highways and other administrations there.

because india had not any administration in Aksai Chin, india(including Nehru)did not know the existence of Chinese highway in Aksai Chin,until Chinese papers celebrated the finish of the highway.


You are wrong. India ( or empires that now form India ) has historically had administrative control over Aksai chin, Chinese Occupied Kashmir, POK and any of the areas that now fall under CPEC.

Here is the map of the sikh empire( 1800s ) at it's peak:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikh_Empire#/media/File:Sikh_Empire_tri-lingual.jpg

Look at the top left border of the yellow area in the map with Afghanistan in the map ( COK ) and the top right ( covers more than half of aksai chin and extends into current western tibet ).

So by your logic Aksai chin, COK and parts of western tibet have historically been "India". Is this proof enough?



you are wrong again.

1.even according the map you provided, the boundaryline between tibet and sikh empire was obviously along Karakoram(india&pakistan~china LOC today), instead of Kunlung mountain(Johnson line).

2. the boundary between sikh empire and tibet was the final of sikh~tibet war in 1822.

In 1822,one lord from sikh empire invaded tibet and once ouccupied Ladakh( a self~dominated tibetan sub~kingdom&vassal of Lhasa ) ,Ali(one prefecture ruled directly by Lhasa).

but the war ended after Tibetans launched couterattack and took back Ali.

according to the peace~treaty ,Lhasa acknowledged that the sikh lord grabbed Ladakh and the Sikh lord agreed that Ali was a part of Tibet.

however,both sides( the sikh empire and Lhasa) did not confirm the status of depopulated zone(Aksai chin) between Ladakh and Ali.(dring pre~industrialized era, it was almost impossible for both sides to maitain administrations in depopulated aksai chin )

3. is The Sikh empire from india or pakistan?

i am not sure of it.
Last edited by Liu on 07 Apr 2017 20:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby schinnas » 07 Apr 2017 14:27

Liu wrote:3. is The Sikh empire from india or pakistan?

i am not sure of it.


You should know that Pakistan itself was part of India and an artificial construct from 1947. It does not have a locus standi before 1947 as more than 50% of population of West Pakistan migrated from India during partition.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Liu » 07 Apr 2017 14:55

schinnas wrote:
Liu wrote:3. is The Sikh empire from india or pakistan?

i am not sure of it.


You should know that Pakistan itself was part of India and an artificial construct from 1947. It does not have a locus standi before 1947 as more than 50% of population of West Pakistan migrated from India during partition.

but now it is controverial,isn't it?

if partition of india had not happened, the Sikh empire would be from india surely. (Just as Genghis Khan would be surely from china,if Outer Mongolia had not broken away from China.)

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby tandav » 07 Apr 2017 17:32

The Yuan empire was Mongolian not Chinese. So by this China belongs to Mongolia, if we use Chinese logic. It was during the Mongol Yuan dynasty that Tibet was administered by Mongols not the Chinese, .

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Liu » 07 Apr 2017 18:23

tandav wrote:The Yuan empire was Mongolian not Chinese. So by this China belongs to Mongolia, if we use Chinese logic. It was during the Mongol Yuan dynasty that Tibet was administered by Mongols not the Chinese, .


was Mughal Empire indian?

all Mughal Empire,Yuan Empire and Qing Empire were 'Conquerer dynastry'( backward tribes conquered advanced civilization) and usually looked on as a part of the conquerees' history,because the conquerers have been assimilated and lost their ethnic characteristics.

if Mughal empire was indian, Qing empire surely was chinese and Yuan empire was half~chinese at least(inner mogolia is still chinese,and much more mogols live in china than outer mogolia).



Besides, china's right(sovereignty) to Tibet is the direct heritage of Qing danasty,instead of Yuan dynasty.

When the last emperor of Qing dynasty gave up its throne in 1911, He stated clearly in the Abdicate Rescript that all the imperial rights to 5 dominions( china proper,manchuria,mogolia,Xinjiang and Tibet) be suceeded by the newly~born the republic of China.(仍合满、汉、蒙、回、藏五族完全领土,为一大中华民国)
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby NRao » 07 Apr 2017 19:11

What China has done to Tibet, China will do to the other nations in time. China will occupy Nepal, as an example. Some African nations are already owned by China.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Liu » 07 Apr 2017 20:17

NRao wrote:What China has done to Tibet, China will do to the other nations in time. China will occupy Nepal, as an example. Some African nations are already owned by China.


at least by now,china's claim of sovereignty has been strictly limited to the border of Qing dynasty.
no proof suggests that china would cross the limitation.(even if Singapore is a chinese soceity,china shows no interest in it)
so my advice to indians is to take it easy .for Nepal and Africa were out of the border of Qing dynasty
it is widely accepted that Modern china is the direct legal successor of Qing dynasty.
thus, chinese of course insist that china have legitimacy to claim what Qing dynastry owned.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby NRao » 07 Apr 2017 20:33

Liu wrote:
NRao wrote:What China has done to Tibet, China will do to the other nations in time. China will occupy Nepal, as an example. Some African nations are already owned by China.


at least by now,china's claim of sovereignty has been strictly limited to the border of Qing dynasty.
no proof suggests that china would cross the limitation.(even if Singapore is a chinese soceity,china shows no interest in it)
so my advice to indians is to take it easy .for Nepal and Africa was out of the border of Qing dynasty
it is widely accepted that Modern china is the direct legal successor of Qing dynasty.
thus, chinese of course insist that china have legitimacy to claim what Qing dynastry owned.


What Qing Dynasty? Global Times? Rewrite history.

Qing Dynasty I believe. Creation of some imagination.

All your silly logic is to lull people into deep sleep - typical Chinese MO. Expect others to follow logic and do not follow it yourself.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby NRao » 07 Apr 2017 20:51

Liu wrote:
NRao wrote:What China has done to Tibet, China will do to the other nations in time. China will occupy Nepal, as an example. Some African nations are already owned by China.


at least by now,china's claim of sovereignty has been strictly limited to the border of Qing dynasty.
no proof suggests that china would cross the limitation.(even if Singapore is a chinese soceity,china shows no interest in it)
so my advice to indians is to take it easy .for Nepal and Africa were out of the border of Qing dynasty
it is widely accepted that Modern china is the direct legal successor of Qing dynasty.
thus, chinese of course insist that china have legitimacy to claim what Qing dynastry owned.


What you mean - like ALL Chinese leaders - is "We are in control. You do not need to poke your nose into matter where we are in control."

"History is our business, not yours."

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby tandav » 07 Apr 2017 21:00

Liu wrote:
tandav wrote:The Yuan empire was Mongolian not Chinese. So by this China belongs to Mongolia, if we use Chinese logic. It was during the Mongol Yuan dynasty that Tibet was administered by Mongols not the Chinese, .


was Mughal Empire indian?

all Mughal Empire,Yuan Empire and Qing Empire were 'Conquerer dynastry'( backward tribes conquered advanced civilization) and usually looked on as a part of the conquerees' history,because the conquerers have been assimilated and lost their ethnic characteristics.

if Mughal empire was indian, Qing empire surely was chinese and Yuan empire was half~chinese at least(inner mogolia is still chinese,and much more mogols live in china than outer mogolia).



Besides, china's right(sovereignty) to Tibet is the direct heritage of Qing danasty,instead of Yuan dynasty.

When the last emperor of Qing dynasty gave up its throne in 1911, He stated clearly in the Abdicate Rescript that all the imperial rights to 5 dominions( china proper,manchuria,mogolia,Xinjiang and Tibet) be suceeded by the newly~born the republic of China.(仍合满、汉、蒙、回、藏五族完全领土,为一大中华民国)


India does not work like China where some illegitimate ruler of a city like Beijing 1911 claimed to own 5 provinces to donate to the PRC, when his writ did not run outside zhongnanhai. All current provinces of India joined by Democratic assent and not by genocide of native populations. Who voted on this abdicate receipt of the so called emperor. It has no legal or moral stand when the emperor himself was not legitimate.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Liu » 07 Apr 2017 22:15

tandav wrote:
Liu wrote:
was Mughal Empire indian?

all Mughal Empire,Yuan Empire and Qing Empire were 'Conquerer dynastry'( backward tribes conquered advanced civilization) and usually looked on as a part of the conquerees' history,because the conquerers have been assimilated and lost their ethnic characteristics.

if Mughal empire was indian, Qing empire surely was chinese and Yuan empire was half~chinese at least(inner mogolia is still chinese,and much more mogols live in china than outer mogolia).



Besides, china's right(sovereignty) to Tibet is the direct heritage of Qing danasty,instead of Yuan dynasty.

When the last emperor of Qing dynasty gave up its throne in 1911, He stated clearly in the Abdicate Rescript that all the imperial rights to 5 dominions( china proper,manchuria,mogolia,Xinjiang and Tibet) be suceeded by the newly~born the republic of China.(仍合满、汉、蒙、回、藏五族完全领土,为一大中华民国)


India does not work like China where some illegitimate ruler of a city like Beijing 1911 claimed to own 5 provinces to donate to the PRC, when his writ did not run outside zhongnanhai. All current provinces of India joined by Democratic assent and not by genocide of native populations. Who voted on this abdicate receipt of the so called emperor. It has no legal or moral stand when the emperor himself was not legitimate.


if india had really gathered its provinces just by democratic assent,the whole Kashmir would have been a part of Pakistan in 1947,because 70% + of kashimir people were pro~pakistan muslim.

india's claim of kashimir is based on 2 factors :
1. according to Mountbatten Plan, Princely States could join india or pakistan or keep independent ,and the decision should be made by the lords.
2. the lord of Kashimir chose to join india,disregarding that 70%+ of kashimir people were pro~pakistan muslims.

obviously, here india threw 'democratic assent' (which you are so pride of )away as rubbish ,and had the lord's will(which you look on as $hit) as the legitmacy of its sovereignty claim.

Obviously,if the choice/will of kashimir lord can give legitmacy to india's claim of Kashimir, the that of Qing emperor can do so with china's claim of Tibet,too.

ranjan.rao
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby ranjan.rao » 08 Apr 2017 00:10

Lie, sorry liu,

We dont need sermons on democracy from subjects of empe-lol She Gin Ping.

If people of kashmir had a problem with india, then they would have rose up and not waited till '48. The narrative of 70% muslim population has also been falsely propagated and maginfied. In '47 the ethnic cleansing of Pandits had not happened. With the hindu & budhist populations it would never be 70%. We had and will continue to have elections everywhere.
Coming to comparison of our POSSESSION/democratic rule of J&K v/s your INVASION/OCCUPATION/SUBJUGATION/OPRESSION of TIBET, ours was a legal agreement between Indian state and princely state of J&K. BTW we have a legal document too. There were even states that were willing to join india and we did't let them join us. Where as what you are talking about ching dine-ass-tea is someone's wet dream. Are the invasion orders of PLA your legal agreement? That ways we have right to occupy your 35th province a.k.a pakistan and afghanistan. Had we not have a democratic intent then the erstwhile 75% of your future 35th province would have been occupied by us in '71.

A country that does not conduct elections forget about free and fair in 2017 has no right to preach a 70 year old functioning democracy about what we did in '47.

Looks like mandarins took the hieroglyph for logic out of chinese school education and we on BRF are paying for their sins. Kashmir was a part of indian culture be it hinduism and buddhism, the trade routes the temples are all testimony to that.

I guess it is your game to spin a web of pointless meaningless arguments to obfuscate the imperialistic/expansionist mindset. You refuse to talk about the artificial islands in the indo china sea. I guess it would be great if you can BSing the world about your pissful rise. Your rise is as peaceful as islam is a religion of peace.

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby tandav » 08 Apr 2017 01:43

Liu. Please keep India out of this discussion. I want to know how valid was this abdication receipt of Qing. I the emperor of my toilet seat proclaim ownership of all provinces of China since the gas I passed has wafted all over your country via tradewinds and hence was a heavenly tribute and blessing. I hereby declare that me and my ancestors willing to abdicate my benign and just rule of all Chinese land to anyone who can genocide you all out of your land. Does this sound fair to you? Should you get a vote?

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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby ranjan.rao » 08 Apr 2017 01:57

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
tandav wrote:Liu. Please keep India out of this discussion. I want to know how valid was this abdication receipt of Qing. I the emperor of my toilet seat proclaim ownership of all provinces of China since the gas I passed has wafted all over your country via tradewinds and hence was a heavenly tribute and blessing. I hereby declare that me and my ancestors willing to abdicate my benign and just rule of all Chinese land to anyone who can genocide you all out of your land. Does this sound fair to you? Should you get a vote?

ranjan.rao
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby ranjan.rao » 08 Apr 2017 01:57

Tandav 'Li U'

Rudradev
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Rudradev » 08 Apr 2017 02:08

Our friend Liu needs a couple of lessons in his own country's history...

Pop quiz. Can you guess who these soldiers are, and upon whom they are exerting "direct dominance" in these pictures?


Image
Loodiaah Regiment (look up where they were stationed!) in 1860.

Image
In the same town!

Image
Another on horseback!

Image
This last group is much closer to the heartland of historically prevalent Indian sphere of influence... in Lhasa, Tibet.

Suraj
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Suraj » 08 Apr 2017 02:40

The Chinese in HK and Shanghai still use the derogatory 'a san' to call Indians sometimes. The searing pain of seeing a bunch of brown skinned turbaned guys executing the writ of the white man upon them runs deep even in the 2nd decade of the 21st century.

NRao
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby NRao » 08 Apr 2017 03:29

shiv wrote:Here's something to get BRFites grey cells ticking

This is a tweet that appeared today
Image


So, Shiv, do we know if they have motorized troops and paratroopers?

We need to get back to this thread and not some fake news on Qing Dynasty.

nam
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby nam » 08 Apr 2017 03:53

NRao wrote:
shiv wrote:Here's something to get BRFites grey cells ticking

This is a tweet that appeared today
Image


So, Shiv, do we know if they have motorized troops and paratroopers?

We need to get back to this thread and not some fake news on Qing Dynasty.


15th Airborne Corps.

They have to stay airborne. As soon as they land in tibet they will have breathing problems...

Liu
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Liu » 08 Apr 2017 05:09

tandav wrote:Liu. Please keep India out of this discussion. I want to know how valid was this abdication receipt of Qing. I the emperor of my toilet seat proclaim ownership of all provinces of China since the gas I passed has wafted all over your country via tradewinds and hence was a heavenly tribute and blessing. I hereby declare that me and my ancestors willing to abdicate my benign and just rule of all Chinese land to anyone who can genocide you all out of your land. Does this sound fair to you? Should you get a vote?


even if you holy emperor toilet gave you the legitmacy,your 'proclaim' of course would not work,because you can not receive the support of powers.


in the world, the legitmacy can never work alone,without the suppport of powers.

otherwise,china would have never allowed outer mogolia to break away and took tibet back,while china had same legitmany to claim both( both were the throne dominions of Qing empimre)

after 1911 chinese revolution,outer mogolia and tibet both gained the status of actual self ~domination and tried to break away from china completely.


outer mogolia succeeded ,because its supportor soviets outpowered china.

tibet failed ,because china outpowered its supporter india.


if india had outpowered pakistan completely, the whole kashimir would be controlled by india.

Liu
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Re: Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Postby Liu » 08 Apr 2017 05:13

Rudradev wrote:Our friend Liu needs a couple of lessons in his own country's history...

Pop quiz. Can you guess who these soldiers are, and upon whom they are exerting "direct dominance" in these pictures?


Image
Loodiaah Regiment (look up where they were stationed!) in 1860.

Image
In the same town!

Image
Another on horseback!

Image
This last group is much closer to the heartland of historically prevalent Indian sphere of influence... in Lhasa, Tibet.



are you really so pride of the day when indian were the claws of british masters?
if so, why were so many indians dedicated to fight their life for the independence if india?

guy,wake up, as for tibet, india has neither more ligitmacy nor more power than china now.
your guys have no chance to march into lhasa under your own flag today.

Suraj wrote:The Chinese in HK and Shanghai still use the derogatory 'a san' to call Indians sometimes. The searing pain of seeing a bunch of brown skinned turbaned guys executing the writ of the white man upon them runs deep even in the 2nd decade of the 21st century.



hehe, do you know the mean of 'a san' in chinese today?

it almost means 'clown' in english.

if some day you hear someone call you 'a shan', he surely is making fun of you and you would have enough exercuses to sue him as a 'racist'.
Last edited by Liu on 08 Apr 2017 05:28, edited 3 times in total.


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