Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

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Karan M
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by Karan M »

Jay - looking forward to your updates. Its always been the same. The foreign company guys always ignore most folks, the DRDO guys are enthu, the DPSU guys vary. I would say always go with some ladies, suddenly the BEL guys etc will be very enthusiastic to show off. :D
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by Cybaru »

fanne wrote:In my humble opinion showing inside of the AWECs was plain wrong. Why give intel out for no reason. Whoever saw it (e.g. BR) have no use and brag or cry, while the enemy has a decent idea of what is it. (5 station if true is pathetically low number)
It doesn't matter if insides/consoles are shown. It's good to see the inside config though. What's important is the stuff on the consoles. Awacs are displayed in most airshows and people are allowed to see. Most consoles and other things are put away and armed guards in place to ensure people don't do anything silly or cross from public to private areas in the display.

Thanks for the link to the phalcon karan. These images do look familiar, they must have been posted before as well.
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by Karan M »

^^ of course i posted them before. :-)

i hope the proper a-330 interior is roomy enough for singha-eque el-maximus profoundus approach.

http://www.boeingimages.com/Docs/BOE/Me ... 219160.jpg

or even this

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/WufHJpwEOrY/0.jpg

more roomy ad comfortable

am wondering though why went 4 panel AESA as versus three larger ones. would have allowed larger antennas ..
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by Karan M »

JT saar what will be the difference between an upgraded Su-30 and a Su-35?
Why add another type to the IAF. Logistics wont appreciate it.
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by Karan M »

JTull wrote:
Karan M wrote:Indian AEW&C induction, includes interior pic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHTluXf80q8
Thanks.

Someone should have asked RM why we're not continuing with production of this variant for next 7-8 years until A330 variant start flying.Why are we perpetually in a Technology Demonstration mode with desi products?
Well, its very effective against TSPAF, but with a 300km radar range it will be moderately so against the LO PRC threats popping up a decade from now. IMHO that's the reason we are seeing the IAF ask for more A-330 based units. If IAF commits to six of those at project beginning, thats a big achievement for this one itself.
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by Karan M »

But I agree with you AF should order at least 3 more of these units and have them progressively improve the radar. A six AWACS (ERJ based fleet) for TSPAF vs 5 AWACS for PLAAF would give us ample coverage till AWACS-I comes.
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by Indranil »

Jay, thanks a lot. And here I was abusing ADE for the no-show of Abhyas!

Hakeem, those nozzle petals are typically left out for viewers to see the flexing mechanism.

If IDRW report about the mockup of LCA is true, then it was such a smart thing to do. Entering and exiting a cockpit has done be done carefully with an exact sequence of placement of hands and legs. And here mothers were putting toddlers in the cockpit and teenagers eager to post their next facebook profile picture (also very important). It is like killing two birds with a stone. Smart! Do it next time as well. As to this being a deceit, let me point to Boeing's "rollout" of the Dreamliner as the latest pointer. Let me know if you want more.
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by Cybaru »

Karan M wrote:^^ of course i posted them before. :-)

i hope the proper a-330 interior is roomy enough for singha-eque el-maximus profoundus approach.

http://www.boeingimages.com/Docs/BOE/Me ... 219160.jpg

or even this

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/WufHJpwEOrY/0.jpg

more roomy ad comfortable

am wondering though why went 4 panel AESA as versus three larger ones. would have allowed larger antennas ..
The second link is 707 usaf awacs? It has a nice place at the back with 4/6 sleep beds i think and a large open space with room to stretch.

The A330 will end up getting loaded with other stuff as well. It's way too big for just doing AEW stuff.
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by shiv »

JayS wrote:
In general I found that the folks at foreign company stalls were very uninterested to talk to people other than business/Armed forces background.
That is why I stopped going to phoren stalls about 6 years ago sine 2011 - knowing that whatever they say is available online. My Aero India experiences since then has been restricted to asking about and seeing desi stuff

That said - I usually found US stalls helpful. Others didn't care..
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by Prasad »

The other stalls were full of marketing people who didn't really want to answer any tech questions. Our gold were all super happy if a lay person asked even one level above kitna deti hai or yeh kya karti hai.

Re the LCA mock-up, except for one or two babies, they didn't let us sit inside. Marked contrast to the gripen where they let people sit and the pilots themselves took pictures of people sitting in the cockpits. People engagement is woeful that way when everybody is so excited to see our own fighter! The gripen guys were out distributing bright shiny red caps, the rafale guys were distributing bright saffron caps, lapel pins etc.
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by NRao »

^^^^^

I think SAAB is smelling blood. And, frankly, rightly so. Just hope they have not left anything to chance.
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by Neela »

The OWS pic from Greek Erieye shows 5 people starting at blue screens. :D


In the video of Indian AEW , the lady CABS employee has no airs about her and explains the basics patiently. When asked how many hostiles it can track , she simply said she cannot reveal the info.
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by deejay »

In the Make In India fighter category - Gripen vs F16 flight demos were being aggressive. Spoke to the pilots and spoke to LM guys. They sound confidant!
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by shiv »

Indranil wrote:Jay, thanks a lot. And here I was abusing ADE for the no-show of Abhyas!

Hakeem, those nozzle petals are typically left out for viewers to see the flexing mechanism.
No Indanil no. Nothing of the sort. I have seen in all Aero Indias since 1996 many Kaveri engines, Adour, F 404 , M88, that Eurofighter engine, Al 31 and others. NEVER have 2-3 random afterburner petals/plates been left out an that too revealing nothing that cannot otherwise be seen. I am NOT joking
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by parikh »

Went on the 3rd day ,random points

- Registration booth was a crappy experience as usual with jammed printers and a few kids who did not what to do , took an hour to get a pass
- LCH and Rafale blew me away with their display , rafale climbed into a loop , and when turning over opened the under carriage and dropped like a stone to land.
- Naval LCA look much better than the LCA
- Goras were up to the usual tricks , throwing the Grippen and Rafale caps into the masses and enjoying them run after the caps
MOD should throw cheques in the air at Chandni Chowk and let Rafale collect them
- IMRH is huge especially height wise , wonder if it can fit in a hanger on a ship
- Lot of Indian SME's in various segments from avionics to forgings etc
- HAL'S main booth was amazing , where they show cased LCA , MCA , simulators , had an Android app for a virtual reality view of a pilot flying LCA
- Few youngsters at DRDO and HAL booths , especially the HAL engine and the CABS booths , very enthusiastic and proud of their work
- Finally saw a desi OS ,called Anurag Linux , hardened etc
- There is Anurag Router & Switch + some a custom processor
- Good to see a lot of lady officers in the IAF , could hardly see any 4 years back
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by Viv S »

Rostec promotes S-400 at AeroIndia. "Highly popular. Big demand. We just started production on the order from China. Limited capacity. Order soon."

Russia's Contract to Sell S-400 Missile Systems to China at Production Stage
BANGALORE (India) (Sputnik) – Russia's contract on the sale of S-400 missile systems to China is at the manufacturing stage, the Rostec state corporation's director for international cooperation said Tuesday.

"Thus far there is an operating contract signed with China on the supply of S-400, it is in the production phase," Victor Kladov told reporters.

He added that the systems are highly popular on the international arms market.

"Indeed, the S-400 is in high demand on the world market. A number of countries expressed a desire to purchase the S-400, but the production capacity is limited," Kladov pointed out.
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by JayS »

shiv wrote:
Indranil wrote:Jay, thanks a lot. And here I was abusing ADE for the no-show of Abhyas!

Hakeem, those nozzle petals are typically left out for viewers to see the flexing mechanism.
No Indanil no. Nothing of the sort. I have seen in all Aero Indias since 1996 many Kaveri engines, Adour, F 404 , M88, that Eurofighter engine, Al 31 and others. NEVER have 2-3 random afterburner petals/plates been left out an that too revealing nothing that cannot otherwise be seen. I am NOT joking
They were deliberately kept open for sure. The mechanism under the hood is little complicated to understand with too many links, which converts Convergent nozzle to convergent-Divergent nozzle. You cannot see that entire linkage unless some petals are kept open. I kinda linked it that they kept it open. Also there was no restriction on touching anything there.

But overall I liked the way Kaveri was looking - I had expected something different, less flshy, old looking. And that particular prototype was older one according to one guy there. He said the newer one is ever more sexy looking. Ideally I would have liked them to put a real cut-up engine on display. But I understand they might not have a spare one to use for that one.

Could have been better, but whatever they had was way better than RR, Dassualt or UAC.

BTW ADA was also giving away bags like Dassault. RR guys were giving big shiny big posters with a cheap looking images on them. But people were flogging there like crazy. I mean what I saw crowd was for "Rafale" bags was rather cheap considering it was being done by people coming on Business Pass. I guess we would see aunties carrying vegetables in "Rafale" bags in coming time in BLR :lol: :lol: I think ADA/DRDO also should give away big shine posters. Kids would love them and many would like to put them on in their rooms. Very good publicity I think.
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by shiv »

JayS wrote:
They were deliberately kept open for sure. The mechanism under the hood is little complicated to understand with too many links, which converts Convergent nozzle to convergent-Divergent nozzle. You cannot see that entire linkage unless some petals are kept open. I kinda linked it that they kept it open. Also there was no restriction on touching anything there.
That was the most horrible looking engine I have seen in any Aero India. Maybe it was kept that way in GTRE but in an airshow where people see shiny exhibits this looked completely idiotic. If it was kept open deliberately it was a shame - and maybe that is why they had not put any label to identify it as the Kaveri. Close examination revealed a component marked Snecma and until I spoke to the guy standing next to that beautiful mock up I did not find out that it was the Kaveri . There was never any restriction on touching the Kaveri or the AL 31 in past airshows.

I am amazed to hear someone tell me that GTRE specially kept an engine with two random missing petals simply to demonstrate the afterburner petal opening mechanism in an exhibition where no one else does that and the other engines on display tend to be world beating engines from GE or other companies while this one has not flown yet. What a shameful spectacle it made. Frankly I don't believe that to be the case. I would be happy to drop the subject here. I have images of other engines that I have taken in past airshows including the Kaveri and none of them had any special missing petals for observer education. At least they looked whole and not like a single broken tooth in a row of teeth - with no labels to boot.
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by Zynda »

Vishnu Som had an opportunity to fly the Gripen again this time. He has posted pics of his ride on a different forum. All the pics were taken on a iPhone 6S apparently. They are of amazing quality...beats the pictures that I took with my 7 year old DSLR. Except for gift individuals like Vishal who need professional grade photography equipment, in a few years iPhones or high-end Android phones would be sufficient for most pictures & videos. Of course to capture LCA descending down from a loop at 400 Knots and disappearing before your eye (or lens), to get a nice sharp image, perhaps a DSLR is still required.

Vishnu says that Gripen supercruised during their sortie...apparently he is the first civvie to supercruise on a Gripen.

Edit: He has posted the pics of his sortie on Tejas as well. Tejas looks just too beautiful in the bright blue skies.
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by shiv »

I spoke to Sanjay Simha who also flew in the LCA and in a Surya Kiran earlier.
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by nash »

Can anyone please share today's experience of exhibition visitor pass, about ticket collection and is it possible to purchase the ticket there only.

CCD outlets have stopped given ticket, so if someone book the tickets online today, will it be ok to collect the ticket tomorrow at the venue.
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by Marten »

Bangalore traff*ck police was at its best today. Sending even cabs to the parking lines where people had been sitting for an hour. Not sure why they can manage political rallies well but not an event like this. There were wardens inside watching the show and exchanging numbers to book!

Checked with the marketing guy at rafael about the image with a pod in place of the gun and he said that's only an image. Heh. Must've wanted to shoo us away.

Thanks to the nice BR folks who agreed to meet at the show despite their busy schedules.
Nash, there is no show tomorrow.
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by JayS »

shiv wrote:
JayS wrote:
They were deliberately kept open for sure. The mechanism under the hood is little complicated to understand with too many links, which converts Convergent nozzle to convergent-Divergent nozzle. You cannot see that entire linkage unless some petals are kept open. I kinda linked it that they kept it open. Also there was no restriction on touching anything there.
That was the most horrible looking engine I have seen in any Aero India. Maybe it was kept that way in GTRE but in an airshow where people see shiny exhibits this looked completely idiotic. If it was kept open deliberately it was a shame - and maybe that is why they had not put any label to identify it as the Kaveri. Close examination revealed a component marked Snecma and until I spoke to the guy standing next to that beautiful mock up I did not find out that it was the Kaveri . There was never any restriction on touching the Kaveri or the AL 31 in past airshows.

I am amazed to hear someone tell me that GTRE specially kept an engine with two random missing petals simply to demonstrate the afterburner petal opening mechanism in an exhibition where no one else does that and the other engines on display tend to be world beating engines from GE or other companies while this one has not flown yet. What a shameful spectacle it made. Frankly I don't believe that to be the case. I would be happy to drop the subject here. I have images of other engines that I have taken in past airshows including the Kaveri and none of them had any special missing petals for observer education. At least they looked whole and not like a single broken tooth in a row of teeth - with no labels to boot.
Hmm. Lets drop it. I at least liked it since it allowed me to see the mechanism in details. M-88 didn't have that. As an engineer I like things opened. :mrgreen:

BTW from the talks I found out that they have some real low hanging fruits to improve existing Kaveri's T:W ratio, only problem they face is procuring those improved parts from reliable vendors. They don't seem to like importing which always comes with some short-coming or concession, as per one structural engineer from GTRE. He was saying they never ger proper thing, whosoever might be the supplier (I would take it with a pinch of salt though. You never get as good parts as designer would like. NEVER. There are always issues. You got to deal with them.)

- Kaveri does not have any SCB's in it so far. Only DS blades. They are in process of developing indigenous capability for SCB technology with DMRL + Midhani and some other company/s which he didn't wanted to name. Difficult to say specifically, but this could give them very good improvement in thrust.
- Kaveri does not have Blisks. But He said there is one company trying to get the manufacturing capability here in 2-3yrs. Then perhaps they can have them with reliable supplier. Some weight saving there.
- They can use composite containment casing instead of metal and reduce few kilos of weight. Same with some nozzle parts.
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by JayS »

nash wrote:Can anyone please share today's experience of exhibition visitor pass, about ticket collection and is it possible to purchase the ticket there only.

CCD outlets have stopped given ticket, so if someone book the tickets online today, will it be ok to collect the ticket tomorrow at the venue.
There's no tomorrow. Today was last day.
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by Prasad »

Compare the kaveri engine on display with the engine Safran had. Simple.
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by Marten »

Oh, the 52 Sq stall was a Huge hit. Senior folks were manning the stall themselves. Notty sir had his hands full with a bunch of busybodies. Loved the concept. They need to be sure to use high quality materials for the clothing though. I bought a bunch of stuff to gift kids in the family...
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by negi »

---wrong thread--
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by Indranil »

Hakeem,

I have seen Kaveri displayed like that before. Like Jay, I like to see the actuation mechanism.
Image

But I agree with you on one thing. May be thay can leave out all the petals.Will look both neater and geeky at the same time.
Image
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by Picklu »

^^ better still, keep all petals on one half and remove all from the other. Best of both world.
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by Cybaru »

So no reports this time? Waiting on yall to write and share.
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by asgkhan »

Went to the show on Friday and Saturday.

Friday :

* Went to Manekshaw Ground and stepped into a BMTC bus scheduled for AeroIndia.
* Reached the venue, the driver did not know the route and instead of dropping us at the ADVA gate # 8, he dropped us at the opposite end of the road, after taking a u-turn.
* Paid 200 to a auto for the 2 KM ride as we did not want to walk in the hot sun
* Reached the ADVA venue inside @ 11:00, missed most of the show, but sarang was going on.
* We just hung back and decided to spend the whole day.
* Went to the food court, the spread was good, saw many families having a good time and enjoying the picnic like atmosphere.

________________

* At 2:00 PM, the crowd had thinned out, and we found a prime spot next to the runway. The aircraft would taxi to the end, take a U-turn, waiting for the greensignal to take off.
* Sukhoi is a beast. We felt the vibrations when he took off. Loved it.
* Great performance by Sarang, American team in the propellor a/c, Rafael was the cherry. The orange flames from the engine and the sound quotient gave everybody a h@rd-0n.
* SKAT was lame, all they did was looping around the ground, with no smoke trails. The crowd lost interest as they could not find from which direction a/c was coming. They were the most boring display.
* The last 4 pilots waved @ the crowd, so did the pilot on Rafael.

_________________

* Due to the hot sun, caps were mandatory, thankfully icecream stalls were available every 10 mts.
* After the show, walked to gate # 8, and immediately got on to a bus. Got down @ Mekhri circle and took a ola cab home.

_________________

* The show venue was well cleaned.
* Toilets were available.
* Garbage was cleared frequently.
* Carpetted area in the food court helped keep the place clean.
* Giving the contract to CCD was a good idea.
* Food, snacks were available in abundance, kept the kids quiet. (I did not take my daughter though).
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by asgkhan »

On Saturday:

* Booked a driver and took my car to the exhibition.
* Knowing that service road would be blocked for AeroIndia, we took the flyover and avoided 10 KM jam.
* The cop caught us asking where we were going. I told him we were going to pick up friends @ airport, he allowed us on to the fly over and we reached the exhibition grounds in under 15 mins. :mrgreen:
* Spent an hour, to pick up the pass.
* Lot of b@bes in skimpy dresses, never felt the strain of time flying by.
* Got on to the bus, reached the under-pass and walked all the way to the venue.
* Security was tight. CISF guys were polite, B'lore cops were on a edge, screaming their heads off (maybe it was the strain of standing in the sun).
* The Exhibition was okay, most of the stalls were empty or were in the process of getting packed off.
* Everybody was interested in taking selfies onlee.
* The goras were un-interested. The hot b@be in Rafael booth was angry for some reason.
* We went out in the field @ the static display. Took the mandatory photos.
* Glad they allowed the crowd inside the LCA display.

Highlight:

* Met Wing commander Brar of the Veiled vipers flying the C-130 J.
* Wonderful human being, humble to the core.
* Was very candid about Cheeni threats.
* The conversation lasted 20 mins, before he was pulled over by his friend.
* Managed to impress SHQ. Now she thinks I am not wasting too much time on BRF.

_______________________

* The crowd was too much.
* Got bored of the static displays.
* Left @ 4:30 PM
* Took the bus to Hebbal bus stop as there was a massive jam and i was not willing to walk all the way back to parking.
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by Austin »

Low-key Aero India 2017 witnessed limited agreements

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/low ... agreements
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by vonkabra »

Does any one know why none of the branches of the armed forces ever have recruitment booths at Aero India? There are lakhs of people attending, a fair proportion of whom are youths who are evidently interested in flight or the armed forces, yet the armed forces don't seem to bother trying to attract this talent. At the same time they do seem to spend a lot of time lamenting that they are not getting bright people to join them for careers. I think the last time I saw an IAF stall in Aero India was in 2007 (remember buying a superb coffee table book on the IAF and getting a couple of very nice Sukhoi-30 key chains free with it).
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by Prasad »

There was an IAF stall.
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by Marten »

^ You mean the Suryakiran/52sq stall? I don't recollect coming across any others. HAL had a souvenir store that strangely did not have Tejas models or posters. Most disappointed.
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by shiv »

vonkabra wrote:Does any one know why none of the branches of the armed forces ever have recruitment booths at Aero India? There are lakhs of people attending, a fair proportion of whom are youths who are evidently interested in flight or the armed forces, yet the armed forces don't seem to bother trying to attract this talent. At the same time they do seem to spend a lot of time lamenting that they are not getting bright people to join them for careers. I think the last time I saw an IAF stall in Aero India was in 2007 (remember buying a superb coffee table book on the IAF and getting a couple of very nice Sukhoi-30 key chains free with it).
The only IAF stalls calling for recruitment have been in th ADVA area - not the business area. Did not go that side this year.
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by shiv »

Marten wrote:^ You mean the Suryakiran/52sq stall? I don't recollect coming across any others. HAL had a souvenir store that strangely did not have Tejas models or posters. Most disappointed.
IAF BRDs had a stall where they displayed worn out parts that needed indigenization.Very friendly IAF man was in attendance

Tejas, Dhruv and LCH other models were selling like hotcakes on the business area side near the static displays.Quality not great -and the best ones were exorbitant.
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by Marten »

Oh, I must have missed them then or was too late. My bad. To explain, visit HAL Museum regularly, and they usually have the blobs of cast models for sale. The boys laugh when they see me approaching to ask about whether someone had raised the Tejas model issue.

Mods: Why are we not setting up the image gallery for users to share the images? In previous years, the base folder was created and users were allowed to share their images with or without a watermark. IMVHO BRF must have these folders because a lot of media and lurkers will enjoy reusing our images. Enabling sharing on social media will increase the reach of BR.
Bala Vignesh
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Joined: 30 Apr 2009 02:02
Location: Standing at the edge of the cliff
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Re: Aero India 2017 - Feb 14 - 18

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Marten wrote:^ You mean the Suryakiran/52sq stall? I don't recollect coming across any others. HAL had a souvenir store that strangely did not have Tejas models or posters. Most disappointed.
There was another squadron selling its memrobilia in the adjacent booth.. They had a rubber MiG 21 Fl fridge magnet in the yellow tail with black polka dots scheme along with caps and tee's..
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