Indian Naval Aviation

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brar_w
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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby brar_w » 16 Feb 2020 18:37

Manish_P wrote:
Philip wrote:..See how the US is operating F-35s after F-18SHs and some older CVs even F-14 Tomcats on their existing carriers.


:shock: huh?


What's a little inaccuracy if it helps make a point!

But in the real world, the US Navy just flew its last Classic Hornet flight last year and is now an ALL Super Hornet fleet until the first F-35C embarks on its maiden deployment late this year, or early next year.

In fact, despite the greater number than planned cycles in the initial 150 or so Super Hornets, the US Navy's average fleet age for its fast jets is actually quite low and probably much lower than historic standards. Majority of the F-18 E/F's,for example, are about the same age, or only slightly older than majority of the F-22A's in the USAF fleet.
Last edited by brar_w on 16 Feb 2020 19:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Pratyush » 16 Feb 2020 19:07

Guys there is a block function in the forum. Please utilise it.

It's the best way of not getting banned.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Manish_P » 16 Feb 2020 19:39

^ Not sure if that was meant for me

If it was, then are you suggesting using block rather than question inaccuracies ?

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Pratyush » 16 Feb 2020 22:00

Manish_P wrote:^ Not sure if that was meant for me

If it was, then are you suggesting using block rather than question inaccuracies ?


No saar, just a general comment. As I have learnt over my stint on the forum that some individuals have no ability to be corrected. Engagement with them is an excercise in futility.


Again just a general comment.

Your milage may vary.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Philip » 16 Feb 2020 22:26

Even Tomcats in the past,sorry if thought operational today. The point was aircraft spanning the Tomcatcto F-35 era.Only the Iranians are miraculously keeping them aloft.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby brar_w » 16 Feb 2020 22:48

Philip wrote:Even Tomcats in the past,sorry if thought operational today. The point was aircraft spanning the Tomcatcto F-35 era.Only the Iranians are miraculously keeping them aloft.


Are you trying to prove or disprove this?

The USN does not operate fighter aircraft spanning the Tomcat to F-35 era. The USN carrier force is an all Super Hornet/Growler Fleet through end of this year. The Super Hornet was declared operational in late 2001 around the same time the French declared IOC on the Rafale-M. The USN declared F-35 C IOC a year ago and it will deploy later this year or early next year. The USN Carrier Air Wing (jet aircraft) will eventually consist of the F-18E/F, EA-18G, F-35C and MQ-25 (2025) followed by the introduction of the FA-XX in the early 2030's.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby darshhan » 16 Feb 2020 23:09

Pratyush wrote:Guys there is a block function in the forum. Please utilise it.

It's the best way of not getting banned.


The only problem with block function is that you have to be actually signed in for it to work. While just browsing you still have to read the avoidable shit. For eg. the daily and continuous recitation of roosi chalisa by one insufferable poster is highly irritating. Request moderators to dedicate one thread solely for this poster so that rest of us can be spared.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby John » 17 Feb 2020 04:41

Vips wrote:
srin wrote:^^^Wait ... Su-33 ? :roll:

Yes why not, when it is not in maintenance you will know its on flying duty by the plumes of smoke it will be emitting. :rotfl:

Flanker should never be used as a carrier based aircraft it is simply not designed for that and shoehorning that for that role will lead only to AC that is a maintenance hog as China is finding out with J-15...

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Philip » 17 Feb 2020 19:55

Please,I reiterate that the life of a US carrier has seen 3 gens of aircraft from Tomcats to F-35s in an approx. 40 to 50 year lifespan, not all at once!

Secondly,the issue is equipping any future large CV with lifts that can accommodate an SU-33 sized naval fighter ,making it large enough to operate anything large in the future or in the theoretical event of SU-33/35/57 naval fighters being built in the future from the Ru stables or equiv. sized birds from western stables.

Anyway this td. is now only of academic value in the light of the latest report about the new CDS having final say on the 3 services' requirements , and that the 3rd. CV and extra 100 aircraft for the IAF " at one go" are unlikely to find favour.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby wig » 17 Feb 2020 20:12

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 165079.cms

Starting April, Indian Navy to induct 4 more P8I reconnaissance aircrafts

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby ldev » 17 Feb 2020 21:47

Came to know of Navy's P-8I aircraft's capabilities during Doklam crisis: CDS General Bipin Rawat
So the CDS seems happy about the P-8's surveillance capability for land targets.....

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby dinesh_kimar » 17 Feb 2020 21:53

wig wrote:Starting April, Indian Navy to induct 4 more P8I reconnaissance aircrafts


So with about 10-12 P8I, 5-6 Kilos, 1-2 Scorpene, plus other assets , looks like IN is in the strongest position ever with regards to ASW on the Eastern coast.

Lot of room for improvement, though.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby sudeepj » 17 Feb 2020 21:55

Image

Picture of P8 supporting the mountain deployment role! (From Wikipedia..)

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Nikhil T » 18 Feb 2020 03:42

^Mt Rainier near Seattle, where P8 were produced. This is likely a test flight, not a mountain deployment in India.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby chetak » 18 Feb 2020 04:15

Philip wrote:Please,I reiterate that the life of a US carrier has seen 3 gens of aircraft from Tomcats to F-35s in an approx. 40 to 50 year lifespan, not all at once!

Secondly,the issue is equipping any future large CV with lifts that can accommodate an SU-33 sized naval fighter ,making it large enough to operate anything large in the future or in the theoretical event of SU-33/35/57 naval fighters being built in the future from the Ru stables or equiv. sized birds from western stables.

Anyway this td. is now only of academic value in the light of the latest report about the new CDS having final say on the 3 services' requirements , and that the 3rd. CV and extra 100 aircraft for the IAF " at one go" are unlikely to find favour.


the airforce is very happy with phased inductions and smaller numbers per induction so that a large chunk of its fleet does not fall due for major servicing all at the same time leaving them grounded, unusable and vulnerable.

pappu's nonsense about why not a hundred odd more rafales ordered all at once is just his colossal ignorance talking.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby chetak » 18 Feb 2020 04:21

wig wrote:https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/starting-april-navy-to-induct-4-more-p8i-reconnaissance-aircrafts/articleshow/74165079.cms

Starting April, Indian Navy to induct 4 more P8I reconnaissance aircrafts


within budgetary constraints, they have options for about 6-10 more

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Philip » 18 Feb 2020 04:43

12 P-8 Is plus 5 IL's gives a decent LRMP fleet that could be split into two sqds. operating from each seaboard ar ARK and DAB.A third could be added later with the extra P-8Is from a southern base perhaps at Trivandrum or the planned base at Tuticorin/ Ramnad. Smaller MRP aircraft for the CG too could operate as they do from Madras, Vizag,Cochin,etc. We need a few amphibs for the ANC in particular too.High costs have kept the US-2 grounded.P-8 Is a much better option as the US-2s come unarmed as well.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby chetak » 18 Feb 2020 04:51

Philip wrote:12 P-8 Is plus 5 IL's gives a decent LRMP fleet that could be split into two sqds. operating from each seaboard ar ARK and DAB.A third could be added later with the extra P-8Is from a southern base perhaps at Trivandrum or the planned base at Tuticorin/ Ramnad. Smaller MRP aircraft for the CG too could operate as they do from Madras, Vizag,Cochin,etc. We need a few amphibs for the ANC in particular too.High costs have kept the US-2 grounded.P-8 Is a much better option as the US-2s come unarmed as well.


from the karwar base, saar.

Its a much better bet.

Their new runway will be over 3000 mts long and it's coming up fast

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Philip » 18 Feb 2020 08:33

Isn't that v.close to DAB? Will the DAB assets move to Karwar? Engr. support facilities?The Ramnad airstrip is being lengthened too for larger aircraft.
Anyway,there seems to be a steady increase of coastal air stations on both seaboards. It will serve the Peninsula Command well.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Cain Marko » 23 Feb 2020 14:42

It seems a 29k crashed in Goa soon after takeoff. Thankfully, pilot elected safely. Another bird hit?

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Zynda » 23 Feb 2020 18:28

Think IN & IAF should invest in procuring bird detection radars, so that they can at least know the presence of birds and try to avoid...I don't think the civil admin would not give a damn about dismantling residential areas near air bases (which is not practical anyways).

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby chetak » 23 Feb 2020 18:36

Philip wrote:Isn't that v.close to DAB? Will the DAB assets move to Karwar? Engr. support facilities?The Ramnad airstrip is being lengthened too for larger aircraft.
Anyway,there seems to be a steady increase of coastal air stations on both seaboards. It will serve the Peninsula Command well.


the goa govt has been pressing the IN to vacate DAB for many years now but I don't think that the IN is in any mood to do so.

Had parrikkar continued, maybe the goa govt would have had a better shot.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby chetak » 23 Feb 2020 18:44

Zynda wrote:Think IN & IAF should invest in procuring bird detection radars, so that they can at least know the presence of birds and try to avoid...I don't think the civil admin would not give a damn about dismantling residential areas near air bases (which is not practical anyways).


only flocks can be detected, if at all and not individual birds. It only takes 3-4 medium sized ones to bring down an aircraft, one will do it if it is a large bird like a vulture.

there are slums and maybe some fish markets in the general take off direction over land and over sea there is close by the bagmolo village with its tourists and many beach front eating joints

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby chetak » 23 Feb 2020 18:48

Philip wrote:Isn't that v.close to DAB? Will the DAB assets move to Karwar? Engr. support facilities?The Ramnad airstrip is being lengthened too for larger aircraft.
Anyway,there seems to be a steady increase of coastal air stations on both seaboards. It will serve the Peninsula Command well.


Don't think that there is enough room in DAB to take the P8Is.

Infrastructure wise, it's already bulging at the seams.

The local govt is rather adamant in not parting with any more land either.

ramnad is jehadi dominated territory and things may become troublesome for valuable assets positioned there.

why risk needlessly.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Philip » 24 Feb 2020 14:44

Pity about the second 29K crash in a short period. The causes must be ascertained.In a year's time rhe Vikrant will sail out with its air complement too.

Ramnad jihadi influenced? Didn't know that.I thoughtthat TN unlike Kerala is relatively free from Islamic fjndoos apart from died- hard Dravidianism.

Yes,Karwar wiith z dedicated naval air station would be safer and more secure,but the Goa base should remain,it's too important to lose.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Yagnasri » 24 Feb 2020 15:13

Goa is getting a new airport soon and the airbase will be thereafter free of civilian traffic.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby saumitra_j » 01 Mar 2020 23:35

Ok, I am continuing the discussion on suitability of F-35 for the Indian Navy/IAF. The key strength of the F-35 apart from stealth comes from sensor/information fusion that it's computer is able to do - effectively analyzing all sorts of inputs not only from its own radar, but also from Distributed Aperture System (DAS), Electrical Optical Targeting System (EOTS), other friendly aircraft including AWACS, satellites, drones and what have you. The ASQ-239 EW suite provides a fully integrated RWR that helps in self protection as well as targeting support for aerial and surface threats. All of this allows the F-35 pilot to not only get unprecedented situational awareness but can also act as an information/processing node in a typical network warfare setup. The F-35, from all accounts is multiple orders of magnitude better in terms of capabilities than fighters such as F/A 18 Super Hornet. The so called lack of kinematic performance of the F-35 sounds increasingly like a red herring - the plane is designed for a mission and it seems to be fully capable of executing those missions it was designed for. With all these good things about the F-35, the question then is: Why should Indian Navy/IAF still consider F/A 18 Super Hornet over the F-35?
Assuming that the F-35 is actually on offer, what are the constraints under which it will work? Let me digress a little bit to understand one of our previous deals with the US - the P-8I Neptune. The fact that we have NOT signed the COMCASA, these were the key technologies that were NOT provided in the P8-I Neptune:

    The Radio System
    IFF Digital Transponder
    Secure Voice Terminal
    Secure UHF/VHF Terminal
    SATCOM Tranreceiver
Source: Live Fist Blog All these were substituted with equipment from HAL. The above equipment is "integrated" into the concept of CNI in the F-35 and based on the patterns of the previous deal, all of this will need to be replaced with Indian items - and assuming the Americans are ready to do it, imagine the kind of costly integration it will take to pull this off?
The second part is integrating the Multi-function Advanced Data Link (MADL) with the IACCS - the MADL is based off the CNI which we cannot use unless we sign the CISMOA!!
There are other issues as well: According to this link the F-35 costs $42000 per hour of operation compared to a F/A 18 which costs about $17000 per hour. Finally, the F-35 may not be available to India until at least until 2030, given the commitment to existing partner nations.

PS: As we have signed the COMCASA, some of that equipment might still be available to us. The question then is of integration with IACCS.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby brar_w » 02 Mar 2020 00:34

There are several inaccuracies in the post above including on the cost per hour (enterprise cost per hour really doesn't matter to the end user since it is program life-cycle specific (which stage of its bed down it is in) and involves a huge manpower component, which I've described numerous times in other threads). Won't spend a lot of time on it since the F-35 is not a realistic option for the IN at this time.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Karan M » 02 Mar 2020 01:34

Its not merely the sum of the parts stuff. Let me just say each subsystem is super optimized. Eg APG-81 is likely one of the best A2A and A2G fighter radars ever developed etc. That apart is the fact its VLO optimized. Upto S band it does pretty well. The S-4XX operates in the C/X band. As a result the dinky little F-35 can do pretty well lobbing JASSM at it from a distance. Next, it will come with a completely integrated avionics system. US may insist we not deploy it next to the S-4XX and restrict it to a handful of AFB, have inspections etc so we dont open up their avionics. Fine. Two squadrons, still worth it. For understanding what a silver bullet force can do, if deployed, used well, I would compare it to the F-14 in the Iran Iraq war - the Iraqis had no counter for years, they'd literally leave the theater if a F-14 radar showed up on their RWR. In many ways, thats a mission kill:
https://hushkit.net/2020/02/27/flying-f ... ghter-ace/

Or, consider the F-117 in the Gulf War. While our Su-30s and Rafales pick up the heavy hitting, a day 1 F-35 force can be like this and then continue to act in a super SEAD + air superiority role.
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/firewor ... ert-storm/

With a near invulnerability to standard fighter radars of the J-10/Su-27SK/J-11 class bar high power AESAs/PESAs which too would need cued search or a slow volume scan, this bird can be a super addition to the IAF. About the restrictions bit:

1. Did US restrictions prevent PAF from deploying Vipers against us on Feb 27th? Or stop their maintenance? They got a mean letter from the US.
2. Did US angst at SoKo opening up their US gear prevent further US sales to SoKo? Brief spat, resolved.
3. Jalashawa comes with US restrictions on deployment. That, we have to be careful of.
4. Need to be careful about IACCS. Probably needs a gateway sort of setup. Doable.


saumitra_j wrote:Ok, I am continuing the discussion on suitability of F-35 for the Indian Navy/IAF. The key strength of the F-35 apart from stealth comes from sensor/information fusion that it's computer is able to do - effectively analyzing all sorts of inputs not only from its own radar, but also from Distributed Aperture System (DAS), Electrical Optical Targeting System (EOTS), other friendly aircraft including AWACS, satellites, drones and what have you. The ASQ-239 EW suite provides a fully integrated RWR that helps in self protection as well as targeting support for aerial and surface threats. All of this allows the F-35 pilot to not only get unprecedented situational awareness but can also act as an information/processing node in a typical network warfare setup. The F-35, from all accounts is multiple orders of magnitude better in terms of capabilities than fighters such as F/A 18 Super Hornet. The so called lack of kinematic performance of the F-35 sounds increasingly like a red herring - the plane is designed for a mission and it seems to be fully capable of executing those missions it was designed for. With all these good things about the F-35, the question then is: Why should Indian Navy/IAF still consider F/A 18 Super Hornet over the F-35?
Assuming that the F-35 is actually on offer, what are the constraints under which it will work? Let me digress a little bit to understand one of our previous deals with the US - the P-8I Neptune. The fact that we have NOT signed the COMCASA, these were the key technologies that were NOT provided in the P8-I Neptune:

    The Radio System
    IFF Digital Transponder
    Secure Voice Terminal
    Secure UHF/VHF Terminal
    SATCOM Tranreceiver
Source: Live Fist Blog All these were substituted with equipment from HAL. The above equipment is "integrated" into the concept of CNI in the F-35 and based on the patterns of the previous deal, all of this will need to be replaced with Indian items - and assuming the Americans are ready to do it, imagine the kind of costly integration it will take to pull this off?
The second part is integrating the Multi-function Advanced Data Link (MADL) with the IACCS - the MADL is based off the CNI which we cannot use unless we sign the CISMOA!!
There are other issues as well: According to this link the F-35 costs $42000 per hour of operation compared to a F/A 18 which costs about $17000 per hour. Finally, the F-35 may not be available to India until at least until 2030, given the commitment to existing partner nations.

PS: As we have signed the COMCASA, some of that equipment might still be available to us. The question then is of integration with IACCS.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby fanne » 02 Mar 2020 04:49

I would push for F-35. Trump -2 can make it happen. 40 planes will do just fine. Even if it is costlier than Rafale (which I doubt)

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby brar_w » 02 Mar 2020 05:51

The biggest benefit or feature in the AN/APG-81 is how it is integrated with the Integrated Core Processors and the AN/ASQ-239 system. The ICP hosts the integration software and the radar is large enough, powerful enough, and has enough cooling to sustain it as a source of High Gain Electronic Attack (offensive) controlled both in the EA and as a passive sensor by the AN/ASQ-239 via the ICP. They have spent years developing and honing those modes and capabilities and have spent plenty of time, early on in the program, in large exercises putting it through the paces on both this application and its upgrade to the F-22. When needed the -239 can drive those modes and co-ordinate with other high gain self defense countermeasures available.. This was part of why they over designed it and why they decided to put around 1500 modules (that and because they wanted to just seal it shut so over designed provisioning for degradation over time). The USAF initially did not want EA/EW modes (both ESM modes and jammer modes) on the aircraft but Northrop Grumman kept is as a design driver through early EMD and in fact used their investments on the APG-81 radar to introduce this capability into the F-22 via upgrading its modules (3rd gen X band T/R modules), cooling architecture and through software upgrade.

The EW/ESM suite outranges the radar and when the EW suite controls the MFA (-81) it gets more range as well as a jammer but the underlying sensor is capable of switching between these radar modes and the various jammer modes which is something designed into it from the start given the various challenges with power and cooling that affect jammer modes but not radar modes... Later the USAF/USN and all other partners built that into the baseline 3F configuration. With Block 4 they are introducing more than half a dozen radar enhancements along with about a dozen EW upgrades including new coverage bands. The main advantage is the scale..when you are geared up to produce 150-200 systems a year you can pump investments into technology and processes and get good ROI..For example, Lockheed literally self-funded the Advanced EOTS without a formal JPO requirement. It is currently flying and an open option for partners. Same applies to the EW and radar where high automation and technology insertion is incentivized given the market demand over the next couple of decades.

Image

@Karan, what you describe is more of how the US Navy is going to be utilizing its fleet of F-35Cs. An F-117+A-12 analogous which is different from the USAF which is going to be using it across all mainstream missions and applications in addition to the penetrating force component.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Vivek K » 02 Mar 2020 07:21

fanne wrote:I would push for F-35. Trump -2 can make it happen. 40 planes will do just fine. Even if it is costlier than Rafale (which I doubt)

Why not add some 36 Eurofighters too! IAF’s circus will not be complete without it!

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby fanne » 02 Mar 2020 07:42

Thanks will let Shri R S know. Who do you prefer?

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Sumeet » 02 Mar 2020 12:34

Has GoI/MoD/IAF evinced any interest or US DoD/LM at all offered F-35 to India in recent times ? I am curious all of a sudden what has spawned this interest on BRF and some defense channels on youtube. Is it because of a good Trump visit ?

Even if there is interest and deal materializes it will take 2-3 years for that to happen followed by delivery three years later (only if LM is not already booked/backlogged). You are looking at deliveries in 2026/27 (some 7 years down the line).

Also, the export model JSF will it be as potent as we have read in comments from Karan/Brar etc ?

I know JSF is another level but even combo of Super Hornet Block 3 & Growlers will put us in a different league.

Brar & Karan is JSF meant to operate along side Growlers ?

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby mahadevbhu » 02 Mar 2020 14:11

It makes sense - being manufactured in F16 like numbers, gen5, priced comparable to Rafale, India-US alliance reaching bigger heights and on a good trajectory - thus it makes sense.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby brar_w » 02 Mar 2020 17:25

Sumeet wrote:Has GoI/MoD/IAF evinced any interest or US DoD/LM at all offered F-35 to India in recent times ? I am curious all of a sudden what has spawned this interest on BRF and some defense channels on youtube. Is it because of a good Trump visit ?

Even if there is interest and deal materializes it will take 2-3 years for that to happen followed by delivery three years later (only if LM is not already booked/backlogged). You are looking at deliveries in 2026/27 (some 7 years down the line).

Also, the export model JSF will it be as potent as we have read in comments from Karan/Brar etc ?

I know JSF is another level but even combo of Super Hornet Block 3 & Growlers will put us in a different league.

Brar & Karan is JSF meant to operate along side Growlers ?


There is no export variant of the JSF. There may be some things that are restricted or not present but by in large they avoided creating an export model for it and received blanket congressional export clearance for all its components and sub-components. This is why offering it is still very tightly controlled by GOTUS and Lockheed Martin hasn't really had the power to offer it as a commercial deal like it can on the F-16 etc. This arrangement will likely persist for many years still (though they may revisit this when the ME customers begin requesting the aircraft later in the 2020s).

BTW, the same applies to the Growler which probably would require an export variant to be created for non 5 eyes non NATO partners particularly with some of the stuff that is being developed for it..

I don't understand what you mean by the JSF meant to operate along side Growlers. The Growler is strictly a SEAD/DEAD platform used by the USN since it owns the AEA mission on behalf of the USAF and USN/MC. The F-35 does that mission too but it is a strike platform and not exclusively a SEAD/DEAD platform like the Growler. Unlike the Rafale, for example, the F-35 is actually meant to be properly equipped for SEAD/DEAD with proper stand off and stand in weapons..in fact some of the same weapon that the Growler is getting (and more):-

* Extended Range AARGM (multi mode weapon featuring Anti Radiation Homing Seeker, MMW seeker, GPS/INS, LOS Data Link, and Satellite based weapon impact assessment uplink ability) and its Stand In Attack Weapon derivative which upgrades software and adds a new warhead that extends the target list to other Air Defense equipment (launchers, Command and Control, Re-supply vehicles, etc.)

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/2 ... p-variants

* HOJ variants of the Small Diameter Bomb -

https://www.militaryaerospace.com/rf-an ... ew-jamming

* F-35 with Block 4 will be compatible with all MBDA Spear variants including the EW variant currently in development -

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/2 ... -huge-deal

Karan M wrote:As a result the dinky little F-35 can do pretty well lobbing JASSM at it from a distance.


Lobbing JASSM's is probably better suited for 4th generation aircraft and bombers. The production JASSM (JASSM-ER) is a 900+ km weapon while the in development JASSM-XR is likely to be in the 1300+ km range so it is probably more suitable for loading up on F-15's and F-16's then leveraging the penetrating force for it. The F-35 A and C have a number of IWB compliant 200+ km ranged weapons (ER-AARGM, JSOW-ER, and JSM) which are probably more suitable for this role as are the sub 100 km weapons that it can deliver in greater quantities against other targets (SPEAR III, Storm Breaker, SDB etc)..

Philip
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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Philip » 03 Mar 2020 21:37

The def. budget for capital acquisitions is small and getting even smaller. Forget about any new IN aircraft acquisitions for at least 5 years. ASW/ multi-role and LUH helos have higher priority.We may acquire a small qty. of 29Ks as replacements/ war reserves once IAC-1 is commissioned, but little else.The CDS too is unsympathetic to the 3rd. CV for now. Subs are top priority. Sikorsky/Lockheed have an opportunity ( say birdies) to sell more helos to the IN after the Romeo deal.Watch this space.

However,the Chin expansion,now on course to overtake the USN numberswise, should make the IN relook at the Backfire/ Blackjack option for the supersonic long-range maritime strike role. The IN should possess the capability of striking The PLAN hard in the ICS itself.We lost that capability after the Bears were pensioned off as P-8Is aren't BMos capable,only legacy sub- Harpoon. They're in truth ASW aircraft,not cut out for saturation attacks using Mach 3.5 ASMs and do not have rhe large internal weapons bays like Bears, Backfires,etc.

PS:
We keep forgetting that we have NO expeditionary warfare agenda unlike the USN.Why F-35Bs are with the USMC on their amphib carriers to assist close support of landings.. Our carrier aircraft's primary role will be fleet air defence,maritime strike against enemy warships and ptincipal ports and naval bases. Theoretically land targets could also be targeted,if further away from IAF bases,attacks from the sea for Gwadar,Jiwani,etc.,but the task of blockading the Paki coastline and destroying its naval assets will bethe IN's primary task.

John
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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby John » 03 Mar 2020 22:22

Philip wrote:However,the Chin expansion,now on course to overtake the USN numberswise, should make the IN relook at the Backfire/ Blackjack option for the supersonic long-range maritime strike role.

Please stop bringing up Cold War relics if budget is infinite we can buy all kinda of things from mother Russia but it is not. Last thing we need is another platform that is expensive to maintain and operate which can get shot down by vintage SAMs (see Georgia shoot down of Russian Tu-22mr). Current priority should be to address the navy’s rotary wing shortfall and LPDs.

Cain Marko
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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Cain Marko » 03 Mar 2020 23:35

Agree and disagree with Philip ji on this....

India should get a couple dozen of both platforms, the f35 as a potent silver bullet force, and the latest tu22m4mki as a force projector in it's area of interest, at least until 3-4 CBGs become reality. Combined with p8 and sea guardians, these could bring tremendous fire power to bear at short notice either as missile carriers or as bomb trucks.

Fly Navy!

Vivek K
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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Vivek K » 03 Mar 2020 23:58

Totally agree - IN should give up buying in bulk - rather order in 5s - 5 29ks, 5 Su-33s, 5 NLCA, 5 F-18, 5 F-35 (5 F-14s are kosher too), 5 Gripen Navy, 5 Rafale Navy . In this way they can counter anything - Russian/Chinese/Amreeki/Agrezi.


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