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Indian Naval Aviation

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Chinmay » 12 Jun 2017 13:57

Austin wrote:My bet is on MOD/MOF rejecting IN request for 57 fighter once they see the price , Even IAF with all the muscle pulling managed to get 38 fighter that was the bare necessity needed for it and SFC.

57 fighter would cost the IN more that the cost of AC along with its other compliment like Chopper.AEW and others. 57 fighter is easily more than $10 billion worth on money if you consider the logistics , weapons training and every other thing that needs to set up the fighter , that kind of money IN does not have , it can barely fund its frigate program , the Chopper program is no where to be seen and MineSweeper program is in some MOD Cupboard gathering dust all these are more critical for the navy than any new fighter it wants to procure.

The best case scenario for IN would then be either get one squadron of these fighter and opt for more naval Tejas Mk2 even that is best case one and then it would be still close to a decade to materalise.


The MOD/MOF knows the price of the aircraft, especially since they had to curtail the 126 plane MMRCA deal down to 36. You are right that it isn't a priority fund-wise, but the Govt seems ok with sending out an RFI to which responses already have arrived.

AFAIK, the naval helo program is part of the SP plan and is to be taken up urgently (S-70B cancelled) and the minesweeper deal is delayed for God knows what reason(not funds). I didn't know that the IN cannot fund its frigate program. Could you point me towards a source? Thanks in advance

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Austin » 12 Jun 2017 14:13

Singha wrote:what is the use case of SFC on manned fighters delivering n-payloads.

i would imagine a enemy who can wipe out our distributed arsenal of missiles could more easily disable the airbases needed for these planes to even take off.


This has been debated till death on BRF but we profess Nuclear Triade as a matter on offical N Doctrine.

You will see many P-5 and non P-5 country doing the same.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Austin » 12 Jun 2017 14:26

Chinmay wrote:
Austin wrote:My bet is on MOD/MOF rejecting IN request for 57 fighter once they see the price , Even IAF with all the muscle pulling managed to get 38 fighter that was the bare necessity needed for it and SFC.

57 fighter would cost the IN more that the cost of AC along with its other compliment like Chopper.AEW and others. 57 fighter is easily more than $10 billion worth on money if you consider the logistics , weapons training and every other thing that needs to set up the fighter , that kind of money IN does not have , it can barely fund its frigate program , the Chopper program is no where to be seen and MineSweeper program is in some MOD Cupboard gathering dust all these are more critical for the navy than any new fighter it wants to procure.

The best case scenario for IN would then be either get one squadron of these fighter and opt for more naval Tejas Mk2 even that is best case one and then it would be still close to a decade to materalise.


The MOD/MOF knows the price of the aircraft, especially since they had to curtail the 126 plane MMRCA deal down to 36. You are right that it isn't a priority fund-wise, but the Govt seems ok with sending out an RFI to which responses already have arrived.

AFAIK, the naval helo program is part of the SP plan and is to be taken up urgently (S-70B cancelled) and the minesweeper deal is delayed for God knows what reason(not funds). I didn't know that the IN cannot fund its frigate program. Could you point me towards a source? Thanks in advance


GOI was also ok for 126 MMRCA till reality struck them , AFA Navy goes off my head I can recollect on Priority Order the following program , MCMV ( Ocean/Litorral) , Naval Heavy Hello ,P-75I , New Indiginous SSN ,Lease of 2nd Akula , Frigate ( Talwar Class ) ,LST/LPD , Corvette ..other small/big things New Torpedoes for Kalvari class , Support Ships ,UAV program etc if one considers CG as extended arm of IN then they have their own long pending list .......Much of these programs are the bread and butter of IN something they would need day in and out to support naval ops , A lot of money has been sunk into existing programs in our Naval Yards something they will have to pay every year from Capex.

To add to that if they would find fund to add 57 Naval Fighter of any type ....it would be very surprising to say the least but Time Will Tell

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Cain Marko » 12 Jun 2017 20:57

Austin wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:Have a feeling that Rafale/reliance is likely to get order for another 90 birds depending upon how well they deliver on promises associated with first order such as the kaveri jv. 57 of said 90 will probly go to navy.


My bet is on MOD/MOF rejecting IN request for 57 fighter once they see the price , Even IAF with all the muscle pulling managed to get 38 fighter that was the bare necessity needed for it and SFC.

57 fighter would cost the IN more that the cost of AC along with its other compliment like Chopper.AEW and others. 57 fighter is easily more than $10 billion worth on money if you consider the logistics , weapons training and every other thing that needs to set up the fighter , that kind of money IN does not have , it can barely fund its frigate program , the Chopper program is no where to be seen and MineSweeper program is in some MOD Cupboard gathering dust all these are more critical for the navy than any new fighter it wants to procure.

The best case scenario for IN would then be either get one squadron of these fighter and opt for more naval Tejas Mk2 even that is best case one and then it would be still close to a decade to materalise.


Point taken. Considering which, ill give the 29k a chance then. But you never know. modi, MP, and jet li are all talking of multiple phoren fighter lines.. And obviously they know the costs involved since they just paid for the Rafale.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Cain Marko » 12 Jun 2017 20:59

Viv S wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:Have a feeling that Rafale/reliance is likely to get order for another 90 birds depending upon how well they deliver on promises associated with first order such as the kaveri jv. 57 of said 90 will probly go to navy.

I wish. The problem is that it can't operate from the Vikramaditya or the Vikrant without modifying the vessels. And we know the IAF will scream bloody murder if the Navy attempts to acquire it for a shore-based role.

How hard would it be to fold the Rafale wings at the edges. I think dassault would consider this before making their pitch.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Viv S » 12 Jun 2017 22:30

Cain Marko wrote:How hard would it be to fold the Rafale wings at the edges. I think dassault would consider this before making their pitch.

Edges won't do. You'll need adequate clearance to manoeuver the aircraft onto the lift under normal operating conditions i.e. without requiring surgical precision and a stable deck. With a 11 m wide lift, I'd say about 8.5-9 m max. The Rafale's wings would require at least 1 m folding on both sides - that's a very serious redesign of the airframe. Frankly, it'll probably just be cheaper to buy the SH, new logistics, infra and all.

Perhaps I'm wrong.. because none of this ought to be news to Dassault. The measurement from the Google Earth seemed pretty conclusive as well and given the load bearing nature of the carrier structure, I doubt any easy modification is possible there either. Perhaps Dassault is just helping the MoD squeeze the Russians on cost, a littel nudge-nudge-wink-wink to help secure the follow-on order. Then again, the Russians probably know the dimensions of the lifts better than anybody else. They were ones contracted to deliver the aviation complex!

Or maybe its just an RFI so I'm wasting my time trying to analyse their motivations? Saab doesn't have a ghost of a chance but it agreed to mail it in anyway. :-?

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby NRao » 12 Jun 2017 23:20

Cain Marko wrote:
Viv S wrote:I wish. The problem is that it can't operate from the Vikramaditya or the Vikrant without modifying the vessels. And we know the IAF will scream bloody murder if the Navy attempts to acquire it for a shore-based role.

How hard would it be to fold the Rafale wings at the edges. I think dassault would consider this before making their pitch.


IIRC the M already has that feature.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby NRao » 13 Jun 2017 02:13

Two items of interest:

MiG-29K:

No expert on MiGs.

But, IN has some 45 and the RuN has some 24. Wiki states that:

MiG-29KVP
(KVP – Korotkaya Vzlet Posadka – Short take-off landing {STOL}) Several aircraft converted to article 9–12 standard, (or 9–18?), with high-lift systems strengthened undercarriage and arrestor hook, for research into deck landings and pilot training.


I am assuming that the converted crafts are from the 24 that are in the RuN. Do not know.

However, what is more important is "for research into deck landings and pilot training". Eh?

Russia vs. US (I do not think this is a topic, but it keeps surfacing):

The US has BUILT 78 (of which 20 were not completed) carriers!!!!!!!!! Most (I think all) of them have been non-ski jumps. One Russian blogger had noted that the *West* uses ski jumps only for STOVL planes (do not know if that is right) and cats for the rest. While the Soviets opted for ski jumps - with an exception or two.

I do not know, but I just do not see any comparisons in this area.


So, I would hope for IN to look to the USN for insights.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Cain Marko » 13 Jun 2017 06:21

The Rafale pitch on the ground:
http://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2017/06/12/Dassault-Indian-partner-breaking-ground-on-facility/8191497247789/

One thing about the French - the seem to know what is going on within the MOD and Services a lot better than some of the others. I remember them offering a deal for 40 Rafales under Chirac out of the blue and then months later it was clear that India was looking for 40 birds - the order did go to the MKIs. During the MRCA contest too, some had dismissed the Rafale and Dassault was hardly worried about it.....

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Cosmo_R » 13 Jun 2017 07:11

Vivek K wrote:
Cosmo_R wrote:...

Heck, we can't even build AK47s


And there you have it - our very own (perhaps Made in India) Roosi Rakshak!!

Mr. Cosmo_R - we cannot also build a lot of terrible Roosi products. If it weren't for traitors, India would have a large MIC and not be so dependent on Roos.

Have you heard what pilots say about twin engines - the second engine only helps get you to the crash quicker!

Enjoying our lack of ability with such glee!! You should be ashamed, Sir!


ViveK, I'm at a loss to understand your comment. Which way are you going? FWIW, as a clue, I think we've done terrible deals with the Russians and we should stay away from them based on experience.

The Ak47 example is there because we still import them from Bulgaria..

There is no 'glee' in pointing out the self inflicted shortfalls—only rue. I have seen this for some 50+ years in the behavior of GoI.

I can only assume your comments are meant to be sarcastic . Else, I'm flummoxed—especially by the twin engines.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Bala Vignesh » 15 Jun 2017 16:34


Singha
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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Singha » 15 Jun 2017 16:37

given that we need around 150 such airframes asap, a make in india with deep offsets is a must.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Austin » 15 Jun 2017 16:49

They are far better of Navalising the Dhruv in the interim and then Navalising HAL IMRH 12 T Chopper that has much better chance to suceed then making 150 frames in India that would be $10 billion plus project that will keep dragging and never see the light of day. The upgrading Sea King and Ka-28 would still remain active till 12 years or so post upgrade.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Philip » 15 Jun 2017 17:00

Unfortunately,the naval Dhruv may be too small to act as an SK replacement.The best option is the NH-90,as AW Merlins,the best of the lot,for our carrier usage, will be taboo thanks to the AW scandal. Naval Dhruvs could be built in some qty since there has been some improvement on the folding rotor issue,but these may serve only on the smaller warships.In any case,the naval variant of the KA-226 is flying and will surely replace the Chetaks/Allouette variants still in service.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby jayasimha » 15 Jun 2017 17:06

Bala Vignesh wrote:Well it's official. The naval heavy helo projet has been scrapped.


Good
Very very good..

I think this is of MP Farmers effect

scrap 3 or 4 pirangi maal imports .
I think some civilian High tech gadgets like pirangi high speed trains may/will also be scrapped.

Hand out monies to our farmers ( loan waivers in a big way).
switch on the burner under the seat of DRDO/ OFBs/ forces for desi products.

else BJP/ modi may be wiped out in a big way in next election

ultimately net effect Jai Jawan, Jai kisan Jai Jawan, Jai kisan
satyam eva jayate...

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Singha » 15 Jun 2017 17:10

indeed. with jobless growth in industry, NDA will not survive a -farmer blowback. they have to step on eggshells for 2019 now.

plus many of our projects are maturing and the orgs need to grow up and start production and deliver. we will never make the cut on the easy sugar of large scale imports. already the dubious throne of the worlds largest arms importer is in our hand for years :((

unlike bailouts of people like mallya, whatever is given to farmers will not leave the country and will stimulate the rural economy.

one has to be pragmatic and economical with the queensberry rules like Krishna was in MH.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Zynda » 15 Jun 2017 18:40

With the official cancellation of NMRH, I think IN may now be forced to go ahead with using its Sea King fleet for some more time which means that IN will now investigate how much more life is left in the structures and possible life extension activity. This will involve local industries onlee...right from design, engineering, fabrication, installation and certification...good for MII but obviously not a shiny glossy brochure kinda project.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Cain Marko » 15 Jun 2017 19:31

Zynda wrote:With the official cancellation of NMRH, I think IN may now be forced to go ahead with using its Sea King fleet for some more time which means that IN will now investigate how much more life is left in the structures and possible life extension activity. This will involve local industries onlee...right from design, engineering, fabrication, installation and certification...good for MII but obviously not a shiny glossy brochure kinda project.

Aren't they looking for used sea kings... Via Canada Iirc

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Austin » 15 Jun 2017 19:41

Philip wrote:Unfortunately,the naval Dhruv may be too small to act as an SK replacement.


I wonder how Dhruv is small , its a medium class copter , A Sea King would be heavy class.

Dhruv is in exactly the same class as Sea Lynx Helicopter which are used by Navies of Many NATO Countries and around the world , both are ~ 5 T class chopper.

Here is a picture of Armed Sea Lynx and Sea Dhruv can be the same weapon and sensors , The Vibrations Issue and Foldable Blade for Sea Dhruv is now resolved ,its got a Nagin Dunking Sonar from DRDO

Image

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Singha » 15 Jun 2017 19:50

Thats the aw159 ioc 2009

It is some 700kg heavier empty and loaded vs dhruv and 600hp more power..but the same size

I suspect naval helis need to have meaty structures vs land based but certainly doable if we apply ourselves. Mission eqpt can be off shelf.

We can fund turbomeca for a epe engine or else run with the engine that aw159 uses

Think of the 100s of variants of the uh1 huey the c130 and the sh60...if we do not develop our own kids who will? This will help local module vendors too.

We got to start sometime. Once inducted 40 yrs of service. Dont want the spectacle of imported helis in 2060 right?

If we commit to our pgm the foreign subsystem makers will all line up with stuff but we must control the platform

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Austin » 15 Jun 2017 19:57

Singha wrote:Thats the aw159 ioc 2009

It is some 700kg heavier empty and loaded vs dhruv and 600hp more power..but the same size

I suspect naval helis need to have meaty structures vs land based but certainly doable if we apply ourselves. Mission eqpt can be off shelf.

We can fund turbomeca for a epe engine or else run with the engine that aw159 uses


Dhruv is a more modern design uses more composites so it is lighter , rest remains the same the are in ~ 5 T class , wont be surprised if Dhurv has more on station endurance due to more modern Shakti Engine and lighter take off weight ........Dhruv can be the Sea Lynx of IN till HAL can build a heavy chopper , till then Sea King and Ka-28 will carry the workload

Check Rudra Mk 4 and its engine payload stuff , navalise that http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories ... r_wing.htm

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Singha » 15 Jun 2017 20:16

+72 +108

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Zynda » 15 Jun 2017 20:49

Cain Marko wrote:Aren't they looking for used sea kings... Via Canada Iirc

No idea about the above but definitely IN has floated tenders (a couple of years ago) for Sea King life extension. Probably the tender never proceeded after S-70 acquisition looked like it was happening. Perhaps IN may resuscitate the tender now.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Bala Vignesh » 16 Jun 2017 00:35

Cain Marko wrote:Aren't they looking for used sea kings... Via Canada Iirc

Yup, we are!! But it is still in conception I guess..

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Singha » 16 Jun 2017 07:22

what are the newest sea kings worldwide ? the newest ones seem to date back to 1995 thats really too old.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Philip » 16 Jun 2017 09:54

There were those acquired for commando/spl forces duty ,I think the last lot,which could be modernised for ASW duty.I suppose we'll be once more trawling the dustbins of the world to find old Sea Kings to repair and modernise.Great acumen and foresight! The entire lot of RN Chinooks meant for spl forces have never been used ,in virtual brand new condition.They're being stripped of their spl forces eqpt. and are available should we want them,for a song.

Dhruv cannot replace Sea Kings.SKs are much larger,carry more eqpt.,weaponry,etc.,plus ASW eqpt. Our larger DDGs,FFGs,like Delhi++,Shivaliks+,Carriers,would require SK class helos.Talwars carry KA-28/31s,These could be interim alternatives but need to fit into the hangars of existing warships.The MOD should asap decide upon the naval ASW.multi-role helo needed years ago.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Singha » 16 Jun 2017 10:09

>>The entire lot of RN Chinooks meant for spl forces have never been used ,in virtual brand new condition

chinooks cannot be used for any FFG/DDG - way too big. if the army wants them could purchase.

the sea king ASW suite was designed in early 80s if not older. things have moved on since then like the KA31 AEW operator just sits beside the pilot. Dhruv should be able to fit a modern ASW operator console if the electrical power is available. helis will carry 2-4 LWT and some sonobuoys. if the AW159 can do it, so can the Dhruv. nobody has seriously explored because Dhruv was shooed outside the gate due to lack of folding rotor and lack of endurance at sea level with payload.....for example the heavy sea eagle missile can be replaced with a light pack of Helina against FACs because really our 600km range brahmos makes having a heli fly out 150km to fire a 100km ASM totally superfluous.

things have entered a new era. things could also be downlinked.

sea king aew
http://www.spyflight.co.uk/images/jpgs/ ... %20cab.jpg

vs

ka31 aew - 2 consoles are now 1.
http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt58 ... ockpit.jpg


what is there in ASW thats not there in AEW? both need a powerful onboard signal processor and a few knobs to release sonobuoys, winch to dunk a dipping sonar/mad, a nose radar if desired and a knob to release weapons. if we had unmanned heli this could all be done remotely from a ship...and will be in future. LWT, optronic suite, nose radar, winch, MFDs, sonobuoys all the building blocks are already with us and proven!!

2 pilots, 1 systems operator and 1 guy to manage the winch and sonobuoys and backup. this is for a 14 person cabin. an extra 100kg of corrosion resistant coatings for all parts.

rather than spent billions of imports let us spend a few 100 million on getting this done.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby srai » 17 Jun 2017 05:47

Bala Vignesh wrote:Well it's official. The naval heavy helo projet has been scrapped.

...
It is now learnt that the procurement of these 16 choppers would be merged with a Make in India programme to produce around 140 Naval Multirole Helicopters (NMRH) for equipping all major naval warships with one multirole helicopter each when they go in for blue water missions and anti-piracy patrols.
...

IMO, there is a need to have 140 N-Dhruv as a compliment to the larger NMH. Two helos per ship.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby sankum » 17 Jun 2017 07:40

Just 24 nos ASW ALH is required in addition to 16 ASW ALH ordered to be delivered by FY2020-21 which can be delivered in 2 years time if 16nos Sea KIng42B are upgraded to last till 2025 till ASW IMRH kicks in.

If Sea king 42B are to be retired than 40 nos more ASW ALH for a total of 56nos will be required which can be delivered by 2023 end.

No need for costly NMRH deal.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby tushar_m » 17 Jun 2017 08:54

ALH can do the same role as AW159 for royal navy . Its introduced in 2009 so not that OLD

Specs comparison :

ALH : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_Dhruv#Specifications

Empty weight: 2,502 kg (5,516 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 5,500 kg (12,125 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × HAL Shakti Turboshaft, 899 kW (1,206 hp) each . Used in Mk III and Mk IV.
Fuel capacity: 1400 litersUseful load: 2600 kg
Range: 640 km (398 mi; 346 nmi)
Endurance: 3h 42m


AW159 : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AgustaWes ... 59_Wildcat

Empty weight: 3,300 kg (7,275 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 6,000 kg (13,228 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × LHTEC CTS800-4N turboshaft, 1,015 kW (1,361 hp) each
Range: 777 km (483 mi; 420 nmi)
Ferry range: 963 km (598 mi; 520 nmi)
Endurance: 2 hr 15 min (4 hr 30 min with auxiliary fuel tanks)

Don't know if there is an option for auxiliary Fuel tanks for ALH

Please note that ALH specs above are for normal variant & not an optimized variant for navy.

if wrong forgive my ignorance .

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Philip » 17 Jun 2017 11:45

In the interim,we could acquire,even lease some more KA-28/31s,which would fit into a hangar meant for SKs. They're serving us well aboard the Talwars and VikA. Selecting the med. multi-role helo will be another long-drawn out procedure and yet another few years before negotiations are completed judging even by the NDA's much faster def. decision-making ability.

Unfortunately,our netas have more urgent priorities.Defending unruly MPs and MLAs who misbehave,delay,commercial flights and then justify their abusive behaviour as matter of right. How many MPs in both hopuses actually care about national security? For most of them it is merely useful to make a political point. We must however urge our PMji to have a full-time Def. Min. for such an important ministry.Jet Li for all his wisdom,acumen and experience,simply cannot do justice to both Finance and Defence simultaneously ,both heavyweight ministries. Someone like Mr.Gadkari could be moved from his ministry,less important or even Mr.Ram Madhavji moved to defence.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Bala Vignesh » 18 Jun 2017 11:29

OT: might as well make Gen. Singh a full time MinDef. He knows the workings and the gaps can plug those fast along with giving a proper technical and tactical standpoint on how to handle the defence related issues too. The only downside I see is that the Army may get an slightly higher weightage than usual.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Karan M » 18 Jun 2017 11:43

http://www.businesstoday.in/current/eco ... 43034.html

In a boost to Make in India in military sector, defence minister Manohar Parrikar has cleared a proposal to develop six indigenous surveillance planes for the coast guard. Hitting two birds with one stone for Make in India, the planes to be used for the project would be the C-295 transport aircraft to be built by Tata-Airbus consortium. This would help in increasing the order for the Avro aircraft replacements being built for the IAF.

"The Defence Research and Development Organisation(DRDO) will design and develop state of art mission suite for these aircrafts. The suite comprises advanced electronic systems," the officials said.

The sensor suite would be suited for Coast Guard specific missions as they would be able to detect oil spills also as the force is mandated to tackle sea pollution as well. The planes would be fitted with sensors to scan deep across the maritime boundaries with Pakistan and would also be built to detect any suspicious movement towards Indian waters.


The MPR program is this:

·AESA Based Integrated Sensor Suite (ABISS) which is basically the TD for the CG's ISS.

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease. ... lid=158187

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby sum » 18 Jun 2017 20:14

In a boost to Make in India in military sector, defence minister Manohar Parrikar has cleared a proposal to develop six indigenous surveillance planes for the coast guard.

How is the C295 a indigenous plane? :-?

Karan M
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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Karan M » 18 Jun 2017 20:19

they are talking of the mission suite

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Bala Vignesh » 18 Jun 2017 21:54

sum wrote:How is the C295 a indigenous plane? :-?

Sum Saab, it is not about being indigenous, it is about manufacturing in India, which C295 will be.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Philip » 19 Jun 2017 12:19

Screwdriver tech yet again! Anyway,it's good that variants are being considered,which they must to make up numbers.ASW / AEW/ versions would be very useful too. What seems to have been stymied is the deal for US-2 amphibs.These as said many a time cost a bomb and it is highly unrealistic to produce just a few at home. With so many forest fires raging all over the country in summer,we need a dedicated amphib MRP aiorcraft/water bomber.

The Beriev-200 was sev. air shows ago displayed,and water-bombed the runway. It is being used extensively even in western nations ,The current raging fire in Portugal has claimed almost 60 lives. The need for IN amphibs is acute,from the ASW.MRP role alone. A small batch of 6-8 could be acquired at far lower cost than US-2s,which could even operate very successfully in the A&N theatre,linking all the various islands that we possess increasing the opportunity of developing them further from the security point of view.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Indranil » 19 Jun 2017 23:54

Philip sahab,

The grand total of Beriev-200s ordered till date is about 20. Till end of last year, the only country to which a Beriev-200 was supplied was to Azerbaijan. They are currently manufacturing 4 airplanes a year and if further orders materialize, they would speed up production to 6 per year in 2022.

I like that plane too, but to say that it is being used extensively is western nations is a big fat lie.

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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Kakkaji » 20 Jun 2017 01:00

Boeing signs $100 mn contract to keep navy's P-8I aircraft flying

The Indian Navy’s Boeing P-8I long-range maritime patrol aircraft, reputedly the world’s most fearsome submarine hunters, have proved themselves in joint patrols with the US Navy in the Indian Ocean, tracking Chinese submarines.

Last July, a pleased Indian Navy signed a billion-dollar contract with Boeing for four more P-8Is to augment the eight aircraft it already flies. Delivery will begin in 2020.

But, with Chinese submarine activity growing in the Indian Ocean, the navy wants more P-8Is on station today. Last Monday, the navy signed a $100 million contract; requiring Boeing to maintain spare parts and personnel in India, ready to respond to any defects or failures in the P-8I fleet over the next three years.

The so-called “performance based logistics” contract requires Boeing to continue the warranty services it has so far provided under an initial production contract, which will expire in October

Philip
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Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Postby Philip » 20 Jun 2017 20:16

Read its operational history,surely it has been used extensively around the globe.

from Wiki:
Operational history[edit]

The Be-200 was operated in Greece during fires in the summer of 2007, but has yet to secure any firm orders from Europe.
The first documented operational use of the Be-200 was from 20 August till 30 September 2004. For this period a Be-200ES was operated from Sardinia (Italy) by SOREM, the official operator of fire-fighting equipment of Italian Civil Defense Department (Protezione Civile). The aircraft, flown by joint Russian-Italian flight crew performed more than 100 flights with about 90 hours flown. During seven hours of operational flights, the aircraft participated in the extinguishing of four forest fires and dropped 324 tons of water.[18]

The partnership was renewed in 2005, with Be-200ES (Reg. RF-21512) based at Sardinia between July and September.
The aircraft flew 150 hours covering 63 missions, including ferry flights, and 435 scoops and drops of water, the total mass of which exceeded 3,175 tonnes (3,500 tons).[19]

In 2006 RF-21512 was leased by the Portuguese Fire Fighting Services (SNBPC – Serviço Nacional de Bombeiros e Protecção Civil) for evaluation during the forest fire season. On 6 July 2006, the Russian crew of the Be-200 leased by Portugal were carrying out a water pick-up from the Aguieira dam near Santa Comba Dão, when on climbing away they clipped treetops and at least one of the Progress D-436TP engines suffered ingestion damage and had to be shut down. The aircraft recovered safely to land at Monte Real air force base, from which it had been operating. After repairs, the aircraft completed the season in Portugal. In total, 42 flights were performed during operations in Portugal, with a total flying time of 119 hours. The aircraft performed 301 water scooping operations and dropped 2,167 tonnes (2,389 tons) of water on fires.[20][21]

In October 2006, two Be-200ES (RF-32765 and RF-32768) were leased to Indonesia by EMERCOM, fighting fires[22] for 45 days.[23] This reportedly cost Indonesia around US$5.2 million.[24] These operations prompted press reports that the Indonesian government had agreed to purchase two Be-200s, each with a projected price of US$40 million.[25] Beriev, however has not confirmed these reports.

Such was the success of the first campaign that two Be-200ES were again leased by Portugal from July 10 to September 30, 2007. During this period 58 fire-fighting flights were conducted with a total flying time of over 167 hours. 2,322 tonnes (2,560 tons) of water was dropped. Beriev claims that representatives of the newly formed Portuguese government enterprise EMA (Empresa de Meios Aéreos) have expressed their interest in a long-term cooperation with Beriev and the Be-200 in Portugal.[26]

Two Be-200ES also operated in Greece, RF-32768 fighting the 2007 forest fires for the whole season and RF-21512 from August 30 to September 13.[27]

In April 2008, Azerbaijan became the first foreign customer for the Be-200, purchasing one Be-200ES from Russia. The aircraft (reg. FHN-10201 ex RF-32769) is operated by the Azerbaijan Ministry of Emergency Situations and can be operated as a fire-fighting, cargo and 43-seater passenger aircraft.[28]

In July/August 2010 it was used in Russia during the wildfires that spread across the country.[29]

In early December 2010, two Be-200ES aircraft were used to fight the 2010 Mount Carmel forest fire near Haifa, Israel.[30][31]

In Serbia one Be-200 belonging to Russian Ministry of Emergency Situations is stationed in summer on Niš Constantine the Great Airport. Aircraft has already operational history in 2012 and 2013.[32]

A Be-200 was dispatched by Russia in January 2015 to assist in search and recovery operations following the loss of Indonesia AirAsia Flight 8501 in the Java Sea.[33] On October 20, 2015, two Be-200s were used by the Indonesian government to fight a forest fire in Sumatra.

In August 2016 two Be-200 aircraft were sent to Portugal after being asked for help in extinguishing forest fires.[34] Four days later it was reported that thanks to the work of the Russian Emergencies Ministry Be-200 pilots, the fire was prevented from spreading in the direction of two settlements — Castro Laboreiro with a population of 1,000 people and Viaden de Baixo, where 15 farms were saved from fire, and Peneda-Gerês National Park.[35] China bought 4 Be-200 during Zhuhai Airshow 2016.


http://fireaviation.com/2014/09/28/new- ... ir-tanker/
New agreement to produce US-built Be-200 amphibious air tanker
(Last Updated On: October 21, 2016)


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