Indian Naval Aviation

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Post Reply
Vivek K
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2931
Joined: 15 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Vivek K »

viveks wrote:the naval LCA could be a good experimental aircraft. It looks so weird.. :D . They should just use it for experiments.
Err...! What part of it looks weird to you? It looks even better than the ground based LCA and is a striking (pun intended) aircraft.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/CaptDKS/status/1366 ... 95296?s=20 ---> One of the most potent platforms with the Indian Navy. Recently, the Albatross Squadron crossed the landmark of flying 30,000 hours. Received a small pack of goodies from crew, a dear friend in whites.

Image

Image

Image
hnair
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4633
Joined: 03 May 2006 01:31
Location: Trivandrum

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by hnair »

Philip wrote:With CV#3 on the shelf in favour of SSNs, the need for the 50+ carrier strike aircraft will also be redundant. How this is going to affect the TEDBF/ NLCA plans remains to be seen.
Well, at some point in next 10 years, the IN will have to use a JCB and shove the shoddy Mig29 junk into the sea. Sooner we have TEDBF to replace them, the better for that eventuality.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Rakesh »

For comparison.

Tu-142: Served 29 years and had 30,000 hours of flying in total, among all air frames.

P-8I: Inducted in 2013 and a mere eight years later, has already clocked 30,000 hours.
Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/CaptDKS/status/1366 ... 95296?s=20 ---> One of the most potent platforms with the Indian Navy. Recently, the Albatross Squadron crossed the landmark of flying 30,000 hours. Received a small pack of goodies from crew, a dear friend in whites.
https://twitter.com/ThingsNavy/status/1 ... 41857?s=20 ---> The Tu-142M served 29 years with the Indian Navy and had 30,000 hours of accident-free flying by the time of its retirement on 29 March 2017.
sudeepj
BRFite
Posts: 1976
Joined: 27 Nov 2008 11:25

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by sudeepj »

hnair wrote:
Philip wrote:With CV#3 on the shelf in favour of SSNs, the need for the 50+ carrier strike aircraft will also be redundant. How this is going to affect the TEDBF/ NLCA plans remains to be seen.
Well, at some point in next 10 years, the IN will have to use a JCB and shove the shoddy Mig29 junk into the sea. Sooner we have TEDBF to replace them, the better for that eventuality.
Indian Navy: Yeh hum hain, yeh hmari JCB mchine ai.. aur yeh hmari pwary horhi hai! :rotfl: :rotfl:
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20772
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Karan M »

Get the MiG-29s upgraded and hand them to the IAF. Many of their issues are due to structural and avionics issues from the hard deck landings. Wont be the case with the IAF.
Manish_P
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5383
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Manish_P »

Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/ThingsNavy/status/1 ... 41857?s=20 ---> The Tu-142M served 29 years with the Indian Navy and had 30,000 hours of accident-free flying by the time of its retirement on 29 March 2017.
Glad about the bolded part. The big Bear served us well, may the potent Poseidon serve us even better.
nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9097
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by nachiket »

Karan M wrote:Get the MiG-29s upgraded and hand them to the IAF. Many of their issues are due to structural and avionics issues from the hard deck landings. Wont be the case with the IAF.
A replacement for the Migs is 12-14 years away at the least assuming the TEDBF program goes according to plan. The Navy is stuck with them for now. By the time we have enough TEDBF numbers to supplant the Mig-29K's, the IAF probably will not want them, considering their physical state after enduring all those deck landings all that time and the availability of the MWF. This is leaving aside what will happen if the third carrier actually does see the light of day and the Navy needs even more aircraft to fill three air wings.
Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21538
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Philip »

Said elsewhere that any future naval carrier fighter for the IN should be a naval AMCA, plus UCAVs. The TEDBF will be reinventing the 4th-gen. wheel in an era of 5/6 gen. fighters operating along with drones. Upgrading the 29Ks during this decade, plus adding an extra sqd. to keep numbers happy will be cost-effective. A variety of new PGMs/ AAMs are in the pipeline including BMos- NG for the 29Ks."Cost-effective" That word appears to be the new doctrine in our mil. acquisitions given latest statements.

However,there is some merit about 29Ks being handed over to the IAF or even based at naval air stations on the mainland/ANC if a new superior carrier aircraft is available.IN MIG-29Ks are at the moment doing Himalayan duties! IAF MIG-29 upgrades we are told will keep the aircraft flying for at least another 30 yrs. This could be done when the NAMCA arrives post 2030,plus still be used on the 2 existing CVs even after CV#3 arrives,able to operate from CV-3 too. One must also remember the prod. rate of desi-built aircraft, barely 12+ / yr. for the LCA. For full replacement of the 29Ks, building 50 to 60 aircraft would take at least 4 to 5 years whether it were the TEDBF or NAMCA. That's at least a decade from now the most optimistic estimate.I doubt there's going to be any JCB shoving 29Ks off the CVs anytime in this decade if at all!
brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10694
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by brar_w »

A Navalized AMCA is a great way to add a ton of risk to the entire program. Designing a Low Observable 5th gen. carrier borne fighter is really difficult (only one nation has so far done it and put the design into service). Doing the same so that it can efficiently operate from a STOBAR carrier adds another layer of complexity. That's setting the team up for a potential failure or at least a significant schedule and cost overrun. For some context, Dassault and Airbus combined don't plan on putting a stealthy naval fighter on an Aircraft Carrier before 2040. That's nearly 2 decades away. And France operates a CATOBAR allowing some margin for range/payload. Even China is unlikely to try to put stealth fighter on its non CATOBAR designs (at least not design around primarily such a requirement).
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Rakesh »

@ nachiket: A third aircraft carrier - in the specs the Navy wants her to be - will not happen any time soon. Reportedly, the Navy has put funding for IAC-2 on hold in favour of six SSNs. From whatever date the keel is laid, it will take 15 years till commissioning. And that is the Navy's own build time estimate.

@ Philip: Naval AMCA :lol:
Cain Marko
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5350
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Cain Marko »

Irrespective of when the TEDBF comes, I'm guessing the IN is going to need some more fighters to optimally populate its airwing on the Vikad and Vikrant. They have about 40 frames right now. Each ship can carry 24 fixed wing + 12 helos. Not to mention a couple extra land based. I guess only Philip on all of BRF will be happy with whats coming next - 12 MiG-29K :rotfl:
kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6278
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by kit »

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/1377152936275369990

The 3rd Aircraft Carrier, INS Vishal (IAC-2) is not only essential, it will also likely see service earlier than expected. This view is not shared by some. But IN's global vision appears more congruent with the overall strategic aspirations of the nation.
basant
BRFite
Posts: 889
Joined: 20 Mar 2020 20:58

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by basant »

Cain Marko wrote:Irrespective of when the TEDBF comes, I'm guessing the IN is going to need some more fighters to optimally populate its airwing on the Vikad and Vikrant. They have about 40 frames right now. Each ship can carry 24 fixed wing + 12 helos. Not to mention a couple extra land based. I guess only Philip on all of BRF will be happy with whats coming next - 12 MiG-29K :rotfl:
With no offence to anyone, I believe if only our top echelons (civil or otherwise) had half as much belief and commitment for indigenous development as the General displays for Ru*/Su*/Mi*/An*/Ka*/Ki*/Ak*, IAF would have overtaken ISRO in the race to Mars Before COVID! :)
Vips
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4699
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Vips »

kit wrote:https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/1377152936275369990

The 3rd Aircraft Carrier, INS Vishal (IAC-2) is not only essential, it will also likely see service earlier than expected. This view is not shared by some. But IN's global vision appears more congruent with the overall strategic aspirations of the nation.
We will be buying/leasing a used aircraft carrier/helicopter carrier in the next 5-10 years.
kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6278
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by kit »

Vips wrote:
kit wrote:https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/1377152936275369990

The 3rd Aircraft Carrier, INS Vishal (IAC-2) is not only essential, it will also likely see service earlier than expected. This view is not shared by some. But IN's global vision appears more congruent with the overall strategic aspirations of the nation.
We will be buying/leasing a used aircraft carrier/helicopter carrier in the next 5-10 years.
There are not many around to start with :mrgreen:

unless the POW is on offer ., but i would really really prefer a Vikrant Mk2
Cain Marko
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5350
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Cain Marko »

We may just see some thing go down with ex usn CVs... Wasp class? Just to give biden admin some talking points for not pushing caatsa.
Last edited by Cain Marko on 04 Apr 2021 01:15, edited 1 time in total.
brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10694
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by brar_w »

Those are not Aircraft carriers, are being used actively, and are not capable of supporting any of INs fixed winged aircraft.
Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21538
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Philip »

=== irrelevant ===
nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9097
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by nachiket »

Rakesh wrote:@ nachiket: A third aircraft carrier - in the specs the Navy wants her to be - will not happen any time soon. Reportedly, the Navy has put funding for IAC-2 on hold in favour of six SSNs. From whatever date the keel is laid, it will take 15 years till commissioning. And that is the Navy's own build time estimate.
Yes it is unlikely, but I had to mention it as an outside possibility since we are looking at mid 2030's timeframe when TEDBF should be available for induction.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 60544?s=20 ---> Report: Indian Navy team to visit US to prepare for induction of MH-60R ASW helicopters. At least three to be delivered before end of this year.
Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21538
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Philip »

What about the 100+ ASW helo req.? 24 Romeos won't fill the huge req. Once we operate 2 CVs, the bulk of them would operate from them being the most valuable assets of the surface fleet. That would leave not enough for the 20+ DDG/ FFGs. The Talwar series operate Kamovs so are fine. Therefore we must quickly decide upon the ASW helo ,with the LUH req. too still to be decided.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Rakesh »

The 24 Romeos is only the initial order. More Romeos will come and that is a good thing. Better to invest in this kit than 114 MRFA. Aircraft carriers are the centerpiece of India's naval strategy. But a carrier is only effective as the support platforms (ASW helos, fighter aircraft, missiles, etc) that protect her. Additional MH-60s will happen, just like the P-8I. The 100+ ASW helo requirement can be taken over by the IMRH in due course.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Rakesh »

MH60R Seahawk – Adding a New Dimension to Naval Airpower
https://chanakyaforum.com/mh60r-seahawk ... -airpower/
03 April 2021

Image
Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21538
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Philip »

Point.Can the Romeo's fit into all hangars of our surface fleet assets? I'm not so sure.The carriers, larger DDGs/ FFGs that operate Sea Kings, yes, but the other warships? Why the req. is there for the med. ASW helos. It's also going to take a long time before a successful ASW variant of the desi MH arrives. We first have to get it flying, tested in full for the IAF/ IA version,before a maritime version,more complex,can be designed and built.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/ThingsNavy/status/1 ... 90017?s=20 ---> MiG-29K

https://twitter.com/Firezstarter1/statu ... 30720?s=20 ---> The bigger point here is that it's a Russian Zhuk ME radar with an Indian Tarang series RWR, integrated with an Israeli Self Protection Jammer. Food for thought for the food bloggers.

Image
Cain Marko
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5350
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Cain Marko »

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/ThingsNavy/status/1 ... 90017?s=20 ---> MiG-29K

https://twitter.com/Firezstarter1/statu ... 30720?s=20 ---> The bigger point here is that it's a Russian Zhuk ME radar with an Indian Tarang series RWR, integrated with an Israeli Self Protection Jammer. Food for thought for the food bloggers.

Image
Hmm...I thought it would have the same kit as the IAF version - with the EL-568 internal jammer at the base of the tail. Guess the IAF versions are more advanced in some ways being a later variant.
Kakkaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3866
Joined: 23 Oct 2002 11:31

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Kakkaji »

Full story behind paywall:

Naval Helicopters: Critical trials ahead for indigenous ALH
With a plan to manufacture naval utility helicopters under a strategic partnership model in the doldrums, all eyes are on a critical trial of an indigenous Advanced Light Helicopter being modified for ship-borne operations of the Navy.

A crucial trial of the folding tail boom – the aft section of the chopper – is planned by next month to demonstrate that the Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) can easily fit into hangars and heli-decks of frontline warships, people familiar with the development told ET. The first ALH with a modified tail section as per the navy’s specifications is ready
YashG
BRFite
Posts: 936
Joined: 22 Apr 2017 00:10

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by YashG »

Karan M wrote:Get the MiG-29s upgraded and hand them to the IAF. Many of their issues are due to structural and avionics issues from the hard deck landings. Wont be the case with the IAF.
This is a million dollar idea. But will mig29k also bring in the spare parts commonality with iaf mig-29s as well?
Last edited by YashG on 15 Apr 2021 23:31, edited 1 time in total.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/DefenceDecode/statu ... 53762?s=20 ---> MiG-29K/MiG-29KUB Carrier-Based Multirole Fighter Aircraft.

Image
Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21538
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Philip »

Nice cut-away drawing! Looking at it in detail, is the grid flap inside the engine intakes meant to prevent ingestion of birds,debris,etc? Land based 29s used to have similar flaps earlier for rough field operations. I guess commonality of engines and lots of other components exists between 29s and 29Ks.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Rakesh »

This unit will eventually transition to the MH-60R when it arrives.

https://twitter.com/Cmde_GPrakash/statu ... 41383?s=20 ---> Harpoons (Navy's Seaking Helicopter Sqn 330) is 50 today. Hunting enemy submarines or saving lives, they have been a great asset. As they await a resurgence, 50 years of no war poses unique challenges. My tribute as a proud Harpoon, in The Daily Guardian.

HARPOONS@50: AWAITING RESURGENCE
https://thedailyguardian.com/harpoons50 ... esurgence/
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/DefPROMumbai/status ... 43905?s=20 ---> INAS330 Harpoons celebrates its golden jubilee today. The squadron was commissioned on 17 Apr 1971 & received baptism by fire when the Indo-Pak War broke out in December 1971. The squadron was initially equipped with Sea King Mk 42 ASW helicopters & is presently operating the Mk 42B variant.

https://twitter.com/DefPROMumbai/status ... 74595?s=20 ---> Called the "Flying Frigate”, the Sea King 42B is among the most potent weapon platforms in naval inventory capable of launching anti ship missiles, anti submarine torpedoes & depth charges. The Sqn has won ‘Best Frontline Sqn’ & ‘Best Naval Air Sqn’ award on numerous occasions.

https://twitter.com/DefPROMumbai/status ... 83463?s=20 ---> INAS 330 continues to remain the eyes & ears of the fleet & has proved to be a force multiplier due to its all weather, day/night capability. The unbridled commitment of the squadron is captured in its motto - ‘Any sea, Any mission, Any deck’.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/TheGhostRider31/sta ... 79840?s=20 ---> The Indian Naval Air Squadron (INAS) 330, popularly called the “Harpoons”, celebrated its golden jubilee. It was commissioned on 17 April 1971 and received baptism by fire during the 1971 war. Initially equipped with the Sea King Mk 42 ASW helicopters, this unit presently flies the Mk 42B variant.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/138 ... 98787?s=20 ---> Indian Naval Air Squadron (INAS) 323, the first unit of the ALH Mk III helicopter, was commissioned into the Indian Navy at INS Hansa, Goa today. 16 Mk IIIs are under procurement from HAL.

Image

Image

Image
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/arunp2810/status/13 ... 88453?s=20 ---> The ‘Harriers’ are back in the IN, in a new avatar! Commissioning Warrant of INAS 323 was read out by its proud CO, Commander Nundy, in the presence of RRM Hon. Shripad Naik & C-in-C West. The navy’s youngest squadron is equipped with the Dhruv Mk III & it’s crest displays a Harrier.

Image

Image

Image
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/SSBCrackExams/statu ... 87090?s=20 ---> The indigenously built ALH Mk III enters naval service as INAS 323 commissioned today at Goa in the presence of Hon'ble RRM Shri Shripad Naik & Vice Admiral R Hari Kumar FOC-in-C, WNC. The multi role heptr has an all glass cockpit & can be used for Search & Rescue, Special Operations & Coastal Surveillance.

Image
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/13841 ... 47554?s=20 ---> New Age Harriers. ALH Mk-III adds muscle to naval aviation.

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/13841 ... 64737?s=20 ---> Deb Rana pic. Always top class.

Image
srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5220
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by srai »

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/SSBCrackExams/statu ... 87090?s=20 ---> The indigenously built ALH Mk III enters naval service as INAS 323 commissioned today at Goa in the presence of Hon'ble RRM Shri Shripad Naik & Vice Admiral R Hari Kumar FOC-in-C, WNC. The multi role heptr has an all glass cockpit & can be used for Search & Rescue, Special Operations & Coastal Surveillance.
What’s that big cylinder inside?
brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10694
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

Post by brar_w »

Source is an aggregator blog that doesn't link a source, but attributes the image to the US Navy - http://alert5.com/2021/04/21/indias-fir ... has-flown/

Image
Post Reply