Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

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tsarkar
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions-May 2017

Postby tsarkar » 30 Jul 2017 00:35

Rakesh wrote:
tsarkar wrote:Even Klub missiles had failures that were traced to incorrect coordinates fed to missile INS by submarine fire control.

Saar, can you please elaborate on why the Klub missile was a failure, if the incorrect coordinates were fed into it. I read, a while back, that the IN had issues with the Klub missile.

The issue was traced to sub Fire Control feeding incorrect INS data to the missile. The missiles were fine and worked flawlessly after the issue was traced and rectified.

Re: Singha - All 877 submarines have land attack Klub while Talwar & Shivalik use Anti Ship Klub. BrahMos is better because of terminal manoeuvre capability

Karan M
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 30 Jul 2017 01:03

These tests are of the initial batches circa 2014.

Guess who makes the Akash motors? Then you can figure out the rest and questions about velocity, this, that in production models when tests webt ok

BEL and BDL are the integrators for the missile.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 30 Jul 2017 02:05

I hope the LRSAM/MRSAM motor is made by BDL.

Unlike that of Akash

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Manish_Sharma » 30 Jul 2017 03:50

Karan M wrote:These tests are of the initial batches circa 2014.

Guess who makes the Akash motors?

Is it ofb ?

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 30 Jul 2017 03:52

yes booster & sustainer both come from them.

and the complaints mentioned, that x missiles did not take off, or had range issues or velocity drops clearly point to motor issues.

drdo needs an alternate supply

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 30 Jul 2017 04:14

And DRDO has moved over to a private partner for supplying motor grains.
http://www.pelgel.com/images/PEL-Aug16- ... tation.pdf

I still believe the complete motor integration should be moved out to such a partner or BDL.

Karan M
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 30 Jul 2017 04:31

The CAG report notes 6 of 20 rounds failed till Nov 2014 @ IAF service.

Thereafter, we had several test fires conducted by the IAF with subsequent production batches.
http://www.ibtimes.co.in/indian-armed-f ... als-664851
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/I ... 024701.ece

These were post induction (2015) user trials. Subsequently, two things happened - IAF asked for 7 more Akash squadrons and production at BDL was enhanced.
http://www.defenseworld.net/news/15613/ ... X0Q2VFLfIU

QA from first time suppliers - pvt and public would have been a challenge but it seems to have moved ahead significantly in the past couple of years.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby shaun » 30 Jul 2017 09:10

Karan M wrote:These tests are of the initial batches circa 2014.

Guess who makes the Akash motors? Then you can figure out the rest and questions about velocity, this, that in production models when tests webt ok

BEL and BDL are the integrators for the missile.


when was this CAG report tabled ???

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby arun » 30 Jul 2017 10:36

arun wrote:^^^ Disappointing news that the NOTAM has been cancelled indicating the test stands postponed.

Time for GOI to contract Kim Jong Un to give some “Field Guidance” to DRDO and repeat the rapidity with which the Pukguksong project has moved along :?:


With the Hwasong 14 ICBM being sucessfully tested for the second time (DPRK announces 2nd successful test of Hwasong 14 missile), seems an appropriate time to revist the suggestion made on page 3 of this thread that maybe it is time for GOI to contract Kim Jong Un to give some “Field Guidance” to DRDO and repeat the rapidity with which the Pukguksong and Hwasong 14 projects have moved along .

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby nam » 30 Jul 2017 15:28

Karan M wrote:And DRDO has moved over to a private partner for supplying motor grains.
http://www.pelgel.com/images/PEL-Aug16- ... tation.pdf

I still believe the complete motor integration should be moved out to such a partner or BDL.


while reading some stuff on google, I found a private company which makes casing for artillery shell for MoD.I assumed this goes to OFB, which just do the filling and dump it on IA.

I wondered if there is a private company which is allowed to produce explosives. Maybe maybe.. this company is completing the piece of the puzzle. May be there is alternate source for ammo like artillery production.

GoI is indirectly pushing OFB to the background by allowing DRDO to pick production partners. And ATAGS is a perfect template, where OFB is allowed only in barrel production, with Bharat Forge being a secondary source.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Gyan » 30 Jul 2017 22:38

Did someone notice reference to NGRAM motor and CL-20 in the link posted by Karan?

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 30 Jul 2017 23:01

Gyan wrote:Did someone notice reference to NGRAM motor and CL-20 in the link posted by Karan?



Good catch. They make 10K kg of CL -20 in the pilot plant.

I think these will be used for shells for those 52 caliber guns and other sensitive uses.

One missing technology is High voltage detonators (HVD).

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Rakesh » 31 Jul 2017 01:01

Missile systems deployment pending for five years
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... 810928.cms

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Rakesh » 31 Jul 2017 01:01

Missile production orders will rise four times by 2020
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/busi ... 791966.cms

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 31 Jul 2017 08:22

Folks what's the status of Nag missile production?

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions-May 2017

Postby Kersi » 31 Jul 2017 12:42

geeth wrote:^^^ Same with Seacat missiles...or even worse. When, after firing, when the missile was not able to find/track its target, I believe it had a tendency to home on to the mothership!


The Tigercat, land based version of Seacat is considered as bigger flop. IAF used it for airfield defence but I have never heard any news about them at all. Probably we paid and we stored them properly so they do not get damaged

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby jayasimha » 01 Aug 2017 15:18

NOTICE INVITING EXPRESSION OF INTEREST
Heavy Alloy Penetrator Project (HAPP), a unit of Ordnance Factory Board, Govt. of
India, Ministry of Defence, is engaged in manufacturing of different Ammunition hardware
pertaining to Indian Army and Navy.

https://ofbeproc.gov.in/scripts/itt_pq/ ... 0items.pdf

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Gyan » 02 Aug 2017 11:29

Nag missule is accused of being heavy but we are making massive purchase of Hellfire which is 50% more heavier.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Pratyush » 02 Aug 2017 15:36

Hellfire is for Apache. If Helina can be added to Apache nothing like it.

ramana
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 02 Aug 2017 21:26

jayasimha wrote:NOTICE INVITING EXPRESSION OF INTEREST
Heavy Alloy Penetrator Project (HAPP), a unit of Ordnance Factory Board, Govt. of
India, Ministry of Defence, is engaged in manufacturing of different Ammunition hardware
pertaining to Indian Army and Navy.

https://ofbeproc.gov.in/scripts/itt_pq/ ... 0items.pdf

What do they want ?

Sorry on phone.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Marten » 02 Aug 2017 22:17

ramana wrote:
jayasimha wrote:NOTICE INVITING EXPRESSION OF INTEREST
Heavy Alloy Penetrator Project (HAPP), a unit of Ordnance Factory Board, Govt. of
India, Ministry of Defence, is engaged in manufacturing of different Ammunition hardware
pertaining to Indian Army and Navy.

https://ofbeproc.gov.in/scripts/itt_pq/ ... 0items.pdf

What do they want ?

1. 81mm Bomb Body HE 100000 Nos
2. 155mm BB Adaptor 6000 Nos.
A/S.RGB60
3. HEAD ROCKET BODY (PRE-M/c) *300 Nos.
4. LINER FOR RGB 600 Nos.
5. DIAPHRAGM(NOZZLE PLATE) 600 Nos.
6. DIAPHRAGM FOR RGB-60 600 Nos.
7. BUSBAR FOR RGB-60 600 Nos.
8. HOLDER FOR RGB-60 600 Nos.
9. TEXTOLITE SEALING RING 600 Nos.
10. GASKET FOR RGB-60 600 Nos.
11. SPRING FOR RGB 60 1800 Nos.
12. SPRING FOR RGB-60 600 Nos.
13. ASSY CONTACT FOR RGB-60 1800 Nos.
14. ASSY CENTRE CONTACT FOR RGB-60 600 Nos.
15. PLUG FOR RGB-60 600 Nos.
16. CHAMBER AFT Motor 200 Nos.
17. ASSEMBLY FINFOR A/S ROCKET RGB-60 (TAIL UNIT) 200 Nos.
18. CHAMBER FORE MOTOR 200 Nos.
19. HEAD ROCKET ASSEMBLY 200 Nos.
120mm FSAPDS:
20. PLASTIC CONTAINER FOR 120MM FSAPDS 5000 Nos.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 03 Aug 2017 01:18

Most of the stuff looks like for the underwater or A/S rocket RGB-60.

And they want 81 mm mortar bodies.
Looks like they are now into these.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Kersi » 03 Aug 2017 11:10

What is RGB-60 ? Indian RBU rockets ?

i guess 81 mm must be for mortar

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Pratyush » 03 Aug 2017 19:50

In the above tender specifications in serial no 2 what is being sought exactly. Is it the ability to produce 6000 155 mm shell per day.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Mihir » 03 Aug 2017 22:48

Karan M wrote:These tests are of the initial batches circa 2014.

Guess who makes the Akash motors? Then you can figure out the rest and questions about velocity, this, that in production models when tests webt ok

BEL and BDL are the integrators for the missile.

The report also notes that the IAF didn't store those missiles properly. They require air conditioned facilities, with indoor conditions maintained at 23 +/- 2 degrees C and 55 +/- 5% relative humidity. Instead, they were stored in unconditioned warehouses, and moisture crept in.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 04 Aug 2017 01:16

Pratyush wrote:In the above tender specifications in serial no 2 what is being sought exactly. Is it the ability to produce 6000 155 mm shell per day.


Where did you get the per day?

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Pratyush » 04 Aug 2017 08:05

Asking as am unable to understand what that means.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 04 Aug 2017 10:13

OK. I finally read the tender. HAPP is now second source for those types of ammo.
They want 6000 Base Bleed adapters for 155 mm shell. They probably make more but these are the requirements.

Odd thing is the BB unit has a HAPP drawing.

Wonder is HAPP innards are being put in some of those shells for bunker busting?

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Rakesh » 05 Aug 2017 01:10

Here is all you need to know about the much awaited Agni-VI ICBM
http://www.defencenewsindia.com/here-is ... i-vi-icbm/

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Rakesh » 05 Aug 2017 18:10

Is this is how India’s “Desi Meteor” SFDR BVRAAM is gonna look like?
http://idrw.org/is-this-is-how-indias-d ... look-like/

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby saje » 05 Aug 2017 23:30

Image

How can you avoid falling in love with this missile? Absolute beauty! Seems like a slimmer version of the Akash missile. I think the project for adapting the Brahmos missile to aircraft has given designers the confidence to go around miniaturising existing missiles. Hopefully this missile, once successful in the air-to-air mode will also become a replacement for bulkier '80s looking' Akash missile.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Philip » 08 Aug 2017 19:08

https://sputniknews.com/asia/2017080710 ... e-systems/
Xcpt:
Iron Fist' at Pokhran, IndiaIndia to Deploy Two Ballistic Missile Defense Systems Near Pakistan Border
ASIA & PACIFIC
15:13 07.08.2017
The ballistic missile defense grid that will protect the western and northern regions of the country will help guard New Delhi and Mumbai.
An Agni IV missile capable of carrying nuclear warhead and a range of 2,500-3,500 kilometers is displayed during the main Republic Day parade in New Delhi, India, Thursday, Jan. 26, 2012

Once Aimed at Pakistan, Indian Nuclear Program Sets Missile Sights on China
New Delhi (Sputnik) — India has decided to install its homemade ballistic missile defense systems at two villages in the western state of Rajasthan. The villages in Alwar and Pali are both less than 800 kilometers from the Pakistani capital Islamabad.
The counter attack missiles will be able to provide double layered security with the capacity to shoot down enemy missiles both within the earth's atmosphere (endo-atmospheric) and outside it (exo-atmospheric). State owned Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) had conceived the programme in 1999 and since then, the programme has witnessed many trials and upgrades.

The ready version consists of long-range tracking radar developed in partnership with Israeli company Elta. The second component is a computerized command and control system that plots and predicts the intruding missile's flight path and assigns interceptor missiles to destroy it. The third component is the interceptor missiles and includes the endo-atmospheric missile can intercept incoming targets at an altitude of 15 to 25 kilometers and the exo-atmospheric missile can kill an incoming ballistic missile within the range of 2000km. DRDO has claimed that the strike range of the exo-atmospheric missile is being upgraded to 5000 km.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Austin » 08 Aug 2017 20:02

Rakesh wrote:Is this is how India’s “Desi Meteor” SFDR BVRAAM is gonna look like?
http://idrw.org/is-this-is-how-indias-d ... look-like/


Is there any JV along the lines of Brahmos for Meteor class of BVRAAM with Russia ? Looks like that might be the case.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Indranil » 09 Aug 2017 03:54

No, this is not. I had reported the tender for this long time back. IDRW made it their exclusive.

Anyhow, the airframe is based out of Astra. The SFDR motor is in-house development (has been on for almost a decade now, if not more). It is not borrowed from Brahmos, or Akash. I did see a LFRJ engine with the same diameter of Akash, and the four air inlets. However, I don't know the end use of such a system. It could be to understand the motor first.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Katare » 09 Aug 2017 04:36

Wont these anti-ballistic missile needs to be at the target to protect it? If missile is going to land at Delhi how would you protect it from Alwar?

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby shiv » 09 Aug 2017 06:51

Katare wrote:Wont these anti-ballistic missile needs to be at the target to protect it? If missile is going to land at Delhi how would you protect it from Alwar?

Why? The ABM need not be based in Delhi to hit a missile going towards Delhi.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby brar_w » 09 Aug 2017 06:53

A ballistic missile interceptor needs to reach an intercept-point at a given time to execute the mission. It need not matter where the missile is launched from as long as you can generate the PIP early enough, and can correct for any errors through update (of course physically reach the point which depends upon the trajectory and velocity of the incoming warhead and the interceptor envelope). Of course the larger this envelope the most design cost there is on the interceptor and the associated targeting system.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Katare » 09 Aug 2017 08:42

For 25 km altitude how far can you put it from where the missile is going to land? I thought all SAM provide a bubble of protection zone around target. So best place for the SAM is right at the target so it should be same for the anti-ballistic missiles. I can't understand how it would work from interceptor range POV? Interception point would depend on the range and altitude capability of the interceptor. We know the altitude is 25 km (0r 100km) not sure of the range but assuming very high speed and short reaction time avilable it can't be more than 2 to 3x of the altitude? What am i missing

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ldev » 09 Aug 2017 08:50

I think only the Radar sites are in those villages giving very early launch warning which will enable course, height and target prediction early on. This will give the interceptors located near Delhi and Mumbai lots of time to work out intercept vectors. Probably aided by radar sites near the cities as well.

Eventually if India is able to customize and integrate the Russian long range S400 system interceptors, which are being negotiated? and base them near the Pakistan border, it will provide India a triple layer defence i.e. boost phase and two terminal phase layers.

Added later: Sorry, checked the map, Alwar is about 100-120 kms south of the NCR and the site is designed to detect Pakistani missiles launched towards Northern India, especially Delhi. Pali also in Rajasthan is located such that it can detect all launches made from Central and Southern Pakistan and heading towards Mumbai and other places further south. So at this point in time it will be a 2 layer terminal phase interception i.e. exo and endo atmospheric which is what DRDO has been testing all these years. The location of these two sites indicates that the radars are capable of looking deep into Pakistan for missile launches, probably with maximum ranges of 600-800 kms, maybe more.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby JayS » 09 Aug 2017 11:29

Indranil wrote:No, this is not. I had reported the tender for this long time back. IDRW made it their exclusive.

Anyhow, the airframe is based out of Astra. The SFDR motor is in-house development (has been on for almost a decade now, if not more). It is not borrowed from Brahmos, or Akash. I did see a LFRJ engine with the same diameter of Akash, and the four air inlets. However, I don't know the end use of such a system. It could be to understand the motor first.


What Fuel Akash uses exactly..? I couldn't find out quickly on Google. Its said to have Integrated Ram Rocket motor.

Once we master Ducted rocket system we can produce very long range (~300km) A2A and A2G missiles of all sorts easily. Key thing would be start-stop-start control.


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