Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

K_Rohit · Post by **K_Rohit** » 09 Aug 2017 12:56

Philip wrote:https://sputniknews.com/asia/2017080710 ... e-systems/
Xcpt:
Iron Fist' at Pokhran, IndiaIndia to Deploy Two Ballistic Missile Defense Systems Near Pakistan Border
ASIA & PACIFIC
15:13 07.08.2017
The ballistic missile defense grid that will protect the western and northern regions of the country will help guard New Delhi and Mumbai.
An Agni IV missile capable of carrying nuclear warhead and a range of 2,500-3,500 kilometers is displayed during the main Republic Day parade in New Delhi, India, Thursday, Jan. 26, 2012

Once Aimed at Pakistan, Indian Nuclear Program Sets Missile Sights on China
New Delhi (Sputnik) — India has decided to install its homemade ballistic missile defense systems at two villages in the western state of Rajasthan. The villages in Alwar and Pali are both less than 800 kilometers from the Pakistani capital Islamabad.
The counter attack missiles will be able to provide double layered security with the capacity to shoot down enemy missiles both within the earth's atmosphere (endo-atmospheric) and outside it (exo-atmospheric). State owned Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) had conceived the programme in 1999 and since then, the programme has witnessed many trials and upgrades.

The ready version consists of long-range tracking radar developed in partnership with Israeli company Elta. The second component is a computerized command and control system that plots and predicts the intruding missile's flight path and assigns interceptor missiles to destroy it. The third component is the interceptor missiles and includes the endo-atmospheric missile can intercept incoming targets at an altitude of 15 to 25 kilometers and the exo-atmospheric missile can kill an incoming ballistic missile within the range of 2000km. DRDO has claimed that the strike range of the exo-atmospheric missile is being upgraded to 5000 km.

Decided to look up these places on google. What on earth is this at 27.510885, 76.666088?

nash · Post by **nash** » 09 Aug 2017 12:57

ldev wrote:I think only the Radar sites are in those villages giving very early launch warning which will enable course, height and target prediction early on. This will give the interceptors located near Delhi and Mumbai lots of time to work out intercept vectors. Probably aided by radar sites near the cities as well.

Eventually if India is able to customize and integrate the Russian long range S400 system interceptors, which are being negotiated? and base them near the Pakistan border, it will provide India a triple layer defence i.e. boost phase and two terminal phase layers.

Added later: Sorry, checked the map, Alwar is about 100-120 kms south of the NCR and the site is designed to detect Pakistani missiles launched towards Northern India, especially Delhi. Pali also in Rajasthan is located such that it can detect all launches made from Central and Southern Pakistan and heading towards Mumbai and other places further south. So at this point in time it will be a 2 layer terminal phase interception i.e. exo and endo atmospheric which is what DRDO has been testing all these years. The location of these two sites indicates that the radars are capable of looking deep into Pakistan for missile launches, probably with maximum ranges of 600-800 kms, maybe more.

It is quite interesting scenario, radar placed at alwar and pali with old range of 600km still able to cover almost all of pakistan and if we place S400 interceptors or ABM of 300-400 km range , then we might able to intercepts their BMs at boost phase, not sure it is technically viable or not. But we can be sure of one thing with this configuration that PAF will be grounded as they will be target practice just after takeoff.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 09 Aug 2017 14:41

You cannot take an advertised range of a missile and attribute that range to a ballistic missile intercept. Often, unless you are dealing with pure ballistic missile interceptors, the envelopes against ballistic missiles is significantly smaller compared to the overall advertised range which is often the maximum state against an ABT.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 09 Aug 2017 14:48

Katare wrote:For 25 km altitude how far can you put it from where the missile is going to land? I thought all SAM provide a bubble of protection zone around target. So best place for the SAM is right at the target so it should be same for the anti-ballistic missiles. I can't understand how it would work from interceptor range POV? Interception point would depend on the range and altitude capability of the interceptor. We know the altitude is 25 km (0r 100km) not sure of the range but assuming very high speed and short reaction time avilable it can't be more than 2 to 3x of the altitude? What am i missing

These are variable and depends upon a lot of external and internal (to the system) factors. Ballistic Missile envelopes depend upon interceptor performance against a given threat which in this case is an incoming warhead. Generally the higher the altitude for the intercept the faster the warhead is traveling. So you need both the ballistic missile class and interceptor performance data. There are very few wide area Anti TBM systems out there that can still do the lower half of endo. It will require a fairly large interceptor as you need to cover both altitude and travel down range to execute the intercept.

nash · Post by **nash** » 09 Aug 2017 15:03

brar_w wrote:You cannot take an advertised range of a missile and attribute that range to a ballistic missile intercept. Often, unless you are dealing with pure ballistic missile interceptors, the envelopes against ballistic missiles is significantly smaller compared to the overall advertised range which is often the maximum state against an ABT.

Yes I agree, but with current set up, which can be further upgraded to Radar of 1500Km range, interceptors of phase II, S-500 etc and other command and control in coming decade. Would it be possible for us to intercept Paki BMs at boost phase.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 09 Aug 2017 15:14

Depends upon the physics of BPI given various scenarios and the ability of the interceptors to get to a PIP in time.

viewtopic.php?t=1238&start=1680#p2136249

nash · Post by **nash** » 09 Aug 2017 15:51

brar_w wrote:Depends upon the physics of BPI given various scenarios and the ability of the interceptors to get to a PIP in time.

viewtopic.php?t=1238&start=1680#p2136249

Nice explanation. But in our case of Indo-pak, Pakistan have MRBMs except Shaheen I and due to lack of depth launcher will be in the range of ~200KM. Now if we have the interceptor of speed of 4-5Km/sec it can cover the required distance in 60-80 sec , should be enough, but certainly it will require impeccable C4ISR structure in place.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 09 Aug 2017 15:55

The shorter the missile (range) the smaller the Boost Phase as well so under some instances you will require an even faster interceptor. BPI is very hard and very expensive to execute against a range of threats. There is a reason why the KEI looked and was sized the way it was. By adding distance you can complicate the problem significantly and launching from mobile, relocatable launchers allow for that. A 100-200 km additional separation between the two launchers SIGNIFICANTLY impacts interceptor performance requirements.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 10 Aug 2017 09:05

a layman question..Does this BMD infra at Pali ..Alwar add to the AD network? or its just to handle missiles?

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 10 Aug 2017 10:05

manjgu wrote:a layman question..Does this BMD infra at Pali ..Alwar add to the AD network? or its just to handle missiles?

Why not? A radar will detect both aircraft as well as missiles. So definitely this system will be used for AD purpose as well

jayasimha · Post by **jayasimha** » 14 Aug 2017 14:01

as per MOD June update
Research & Development (4) The DRDO carried out successful test flight of anti-tank guided missile Nag on June 12, 2017 in the desert ranges of Rajasthan. The Fire and Forget 3rd generation ATGM Nag is incorporated with many advanced technologies including the Imaging Infrared Radar (IIR) Seeker with Integrated avionics, a capability which is possessed by few nations in the world.....

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 14 Aug 2017 18:04

Yawn!!!

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 14 Aug 2017 20:20

Philip wrote:https://sputniknews.com/asia/2017080710 ... e-systems/
Xcpt:

Has this news been reported by Anyone else? I hope that it is not kite flying. How reliable is Sputnik in such issues/scoops??

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 18 Aug 2017 14:43

Vietnam confirms purchase of cruise missiles from India

Vietnam's government has confirmed it has taken delivery of a batch of short-range ramjet supersonic cruise missiles from India.

Foreign ministry spokeswoman Le Thi Thu Hang said at a press briefing on Thursday that Vietnam is developing defense cooperation with India to allow the country to pursue its defense policies.

“The arms purchase is in line with Vietnam’s peaceful national defense policies aimed at protecting the country,” Hang said.

If we read between the lines. Brahmos cant be exported to any nation if India or Russia does not agree. It means sale of Brahmos to Vietnam has Russia's blessings, and Russia does not want to be a Chinese pet, and has disagreements on geopolitical issues. Only time will tell exactly "what."

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 18 Aug 2017 15:16

Great news on export of Brahmos missiles

Chinmay · Post by **Chinmay** » 18 Aug 2017 17:05

kmkraoind wrote:Vietnam confirms purchase of cruise missiles from India

Vietnam's government has confirmed it has taken delivery of a batch of short-range ramjet supersonic cruise missiles from India.

Foreign ministry spokeswoman Le Thi Thu Hang said at a press briefing on Thursday that Vietnam is developing defense cooperation with India to allow the country to pursue its defense policies.

“The arms purchase is in line with Vietnam’s peaceful national defense policies aimed at protecting the country,” Hang said.
If we read between the lines. Brahmos cant be exported to any nation if India or Russia does not agree. It means sale of Brahmos to Vietnam has Russia's blessings, and Russia does not want to be a Chinese pet, and has disagreements on geopolitical issues. Only time will tell exactly "what."

That report has been modified. The delivery hasn't been confirmed by official sources (Indian Govt or Vietnam Govt)

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 18 Aug 2017 17:43

https://twitter.com/ajaishukla/status/8 ... 2889535488

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 18 Aug 2017 18:10

NDTV Vishnu SOm is saying Vietnamese have confirmed

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/indias-n ... na-1739183

Senior Vietnamese journalists have indicated to NDTV that the first batch of missiles arrived a few days ago.

I dont think India or Vietnam want to make a public song or dance about this.

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/india-ups ... al-vietnam

Vietnam's Foreign Office- neither confirm nor deny

http://www.mofa.gov.vn/en/tt_baochi/pbn ... 0818145944

It has been on the international news that Viet Nam just received some Brahmos missiles from India. Could you please confirm that information?

The Viet Nam – India Comprehensive Strategic Partnership has been actively developing in many fields, economics, trade, investment, culture, education, security and defense. The bilateral security and defense ties have been making practical contribution to peace, stability, cooperation and development in the region and the world at large.
It should be emphasized that Viet Nam persistently pursues a national defense policy of peace and of self-defense. Procurement of defense equipment by Viet Nam is consistent with the policy of peace and self-defense and is the normal practice in the national defense.
We will forward your question to the relevant agency.

pandyan · Post by **pandyan** » 18 Aug 2017 18:17

When are these guys going to write chinese actions are likely to anger India

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 18 Aug 2017 18:18

You become miltarily powerful enough with proper MIC and weaponry, people will respect you. That will take Govt atleast 15 years. Not a Govt which army to keep 1 hand behind its back and not respond to ceasefire violations, and wants to make LOC, LAC and withdraw from your own land in the name of peace parks.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 18 Aug 2017 18:24

There is a lot of see sawing going on, live fest says deal is being finalised, nothing supplied.

NDTV saying Vietnam has confirmed India is denying.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 18 Aug 2017 20:44

Ambiguity has it's own advantages.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 18 Aug 2017 20:49

do u think cheenis dont know if we have transferred or not. the fact they have not shouted out loud clearly indicates to me that missiles have not reached vietnamese !!

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 18 Aug 2017 21:22

Aditya_V wrote:
NDTV saying Vietnam has confirmed India is denying.

Unless I'm reading this wrong NDTV could only confirm a Vietnamese purchase with Vietnamese journalists and not their Foreign or Defense ministries.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 18 Aug 2017 21:44

Akash is going to be next.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Aug 2017 22:12

manjgu wrote:do u think cheenis dont know if we have transferred or not. the fact they have not shouted out loud clearly indicates to me that missiles have not reached vietnamese !!

Well let's see if you have to take back these words in a few days..when the Chinese react to this news...

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 18 Aug 2017 22:50

Would be really interesting to see the slick chick giving moral lectures make love not war.. China is so peaceful

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 19 Aug 2017 01:50

Just talks, no sale of BrahMos cruise missiles to Vietnam: MEA

New Delhi: India on Friday refuted reports that Vietnam had acquired BrahMos supersonic anti-ship cruise missiles from India.

Addressing the weekly MEA briefing, spokesperson Raveesh Kumar said, “Vietnam has clarified that their spokesperson did not confirm the sale but had just talked about defence and strategic relations.”

Earlier, Vietnam Foreign Ministry said the country was persistent in pursuing the national defence policy of peace and self-defence.

Terming it as a normal defence practice, Vietnam Foreign Ministry maintained that the procurement of defence equipment was consistent with the policy of peace and self-defence.

Kersi · Post by **Kersi** » 19 Aug 2017 12:25

K_Rohit wrote:
Philip wrote:https://sputniknews.com/asia/2017080710 ... e-systems/
Xcpt:
Decided to look up these places on google. What on earth is this at 27.510885, 76.666088?

And what the hell is this ?? 27*30'32" N and 76*38'30" ?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 19 Aug 2017 12:38

The Vietnam Brahmos Deal was long in works it was going slow due to MEA opposition to "sensitivity" of China , with the current stand off with China those sensitivity are no more

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 19 Aug 2017 23:29

The Nehru-Gandhi-MMS era dhoti shivering MEA official's and advisers should be kicked out and Modi chaap guys should be brought in to unequivocally convey to the chini lizards that Brahmos sale to Vietnam is just desserts for the numerous Ding-Dong missile sales to Pakistan.
Such non-confident behaviour does not suit India's emerging profile as the whole world is witnessing our MEA's defeatist attitude. Aack Thoo on the outdated Nehru-Gandhi-MMS doctrine and its servile adherents.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Aug 2017 08:04

Aditya_V wrote:NDTV Vishnu SOm is saying Vietnamese have confirmed

The media are so reliable..they would never say anything simply to attracts eyeballs

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Aug 2017 08:27

MEA i agree need a good cleanup. these babus have made a career out of minding everyones interest and sensititvities except India's own and going through truckloads of tea, marie biskoots .

the entire IFS needs to be probed and partially disbanded. stuffed full of IG/JLN bhakts.

tushar_m · Post by **tushar_m** » 20 Aug 2017 09:32

India looks to America for aerial protection from threat of enemy rockets, drones and aircraft as the capital plans to go anti-ballistic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASAMS

jayasimha · Post by **jayasimha** » 21 Aug 2017 14:56

https://ofbeproc.gov.in/scripts/itt_pq/ ... 5%2017.pdf

This EOI is floated for selection of partner for collaboration agreement for
production and supply of 70mm Rockets through participation in RFP to be
floated by MoD wherein OFB and the prospective collaborator shall
participate jointly

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Aug 2017 21:11

Folks Lets stick to technical news only and leave arms sales to the Foreign Policy threads.

Thanks,
ramana

kit · Post by **kit** » 22 Aug 2017 00:11

tushar_m wrote:India looks to America for aerial protection from threat of enemy rockets, drones and aircraft as the capital plans to go anti-ballistic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASAMS

thats a Kongsberg Raytheon product .. western air forces have a healthy respect for that system . Designed to be modularly upgradable and to protect large population centres, relies on AMRAAM 120 missiles? D version for point defence for all air targets known and unknown .

kit · Post by **kit** » 22 Aug 2017 00:19

Austin wrote:The Vietnam Brahmos Deal was long in works it was going slow due to MEA opposition to "sensitivity" of China , with the current stand off with China those sensitivity are no more

whats the problem with MEA not knowing what the Def Min is upto

we will have truly arrived just like Amrika

kurup · Post by **kurup** » 22 Aug 2017 19:00

INDIA EAST COAST – OFF BALASORE (.) CHARTS 31 351 352 INT 71 (.)

EXPERIMENTAL FLIGHT TRIAL SCHEDULED FROM ITR ON (A) 26 AUG 17 FROM 0900 - 1100 UTC IN DANGER ZONE BOUNDED BY

21-12.59N 086-46.14E, 20-05.31N 087-20.85E, 21-02.54N 088-22.29E, 21-35.58N 087-10.69E

(B) 28, 29, 30, 31 AUG AND 01, 02, 04 SEP 17 FROM 0530 - 0730 AND 0900-1100 UTC IN DANGER ZONE BOUNDED BY

21-12.59N 086-46.14E, 20-05.31N 087-20.85E, 21-02.54N 088-22.29E, 21-35.58N 087-10.69E

2. CANCEL NAVAREA VIII MSG 572 AND THIS MSG ON 041200 UTC SEP 17

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 22 Aug 2017 21:31

likely an air launched weapon.